Jack Linden Office hours – Sept 30th, 2010

[11:01:15]  Nema Galicia: Jack I got something for you
[11:01:17]  Master Kane: Hi Jack, and welcome to your own Office Hours, where Linden Labs Research Customers, do not get answers…..
[11:01:24]  Qie Niangao: everybody is busy in Blender. Get used to it. :p
[11:01:30]  Nema Galicia: I didnt make the prims but I did have a huge say on what went on it
[11:01:35]  Nema Galicia: no offence just enjoy
[11:01:36]  Jack Linden: hey folks
[11:01:39]  Master Kane: :)
[11:01:43]  Alliez Mysterio: Good to see you
[11:01:48]  Jean Swashbuckler: hiya Jack
[11:01:49]  Marianne McCann: What’s the latest, Jack?
[11:01:52]  Ardy Lay: Hi Jack
[11:02:13]  Jack Linden: Small crowd this week!
[11:02:37]  Master Kane: ut oh.. jacks sitting.. this may be a long one
[11:02:39]  Drongle McMahon: Hmmm Qie. wait till they see mesh costs.
[11:02:41]  Nema Galicia: we have one just like it now at burning man
[11:02:46]  Marianne McCann: So how soon ’til we get “Clippie” in the Viewer 2 interface?
[11:02:57]  Jean Swashbuckler: ROFL Maria
[11:03:00]  Jean Swashbuckler: *Mari
[11:03:01]  Jack Linden: so this week we switched off AU and announced a date for Mesh open Beta
[11:03:09]  Ciaran Laval: Ha! Beat you
[11:03:12]  Marianne McCann: Hey Ciaran
[11:03:12]  Master Kane: and
[11:03:18]  Nema Galicia: WooT WooT on mesh
[11:03:21]  Alexxa Despres: I let you win ;)
[11:03:24]  Master Kane: what else do you all have up your sleves?
[11:03:39]  Melody Regent: So Jack, I want to thank your people for the bone that was tossed to us in the LAND section of the Market Place. However, the beta is soon going to be over and we were told we would have a final solution. Although this is a bandaid on the damn, we still need something better. What are the options you are looking at giving us that is much better and user friendly?
[11:03:46]  Ciaran Laval: Hey mari, Drift
[11:04:07]  Jack Linden: Mesh is going to be pretty fun I think.. we had an internal demo a couple of days ago and we’re green lighted for the Beta. I’m hoping we get a lot of people trying it out
[11:04:14]  Master Kane: Jack >> Let’s (Linden Labs) focus on FIXING actual things instead of coming up with more garbage that the MAJORITY does not want. ( We still need to see numbers on how many wanted this display names ).
For me and many others that I’ve talked to, want things like Search to work, lower tiers due to lack of knowledgeable support, lower tiers due to lack of support, bugs fixed, stop adding crap to the viewer, better viewer UI (a start over), ripped/copy botted things to stop (close the TPV!) and I can go on and on. When you say Linden Labs is listening, they very well may be doing that, but they are NOT listening to those that fill their pockets with cash! Bottom line!
[11:04:18]  Driftwood Miles: Hi there Ciaran :)
[11:04:40]  Alexxa Despres: Hi Drift ;)
[11:04:54]  Alexxa Despres: Hey Zoha ;)
[11:04:55]  Alliez Mysterio: Jack, I do have a question about Second lilfe. Is it true Microsoft is buying sl?
[11:04:56]  Driftwood Miles: Hello
[11:05:02]  Jack Linden: Melody, I think the commitment was to basically match what we had in xstreet until such time as we could create a better land sales process on the web
[11:05:09]  Ciaran Laval: Tizzers isn’t the most reliable source
[11:05:13]  Daniel Voyager: Sounds exciting Jack on Mesh beta. :)
[11:05:15]  Zoha Boa: Hi everyone
[11:05:17]  Master Kane: Yes good question Alliez
[11:05:21]  Marianne McCann: Seriously, Ciaran
[11:05:22]  Melody Regent: what you have on there now does NOT match
[11:05:42]  Jack Linden: I know it’s not ideal but it’ll take us time to build land sales into the marketplace so for now, it’s at least a place where land dealing can happen
[11:05:54]  Marianne McCann: I’ve had a long time concern with marketplace. Not sure if others feel the same. If Marketplace becomes *the* way to shop in SL, then why have an inworld storefront (with the tier costs and hassles) when we can all buy 16m parcels to house our Magic boxes? Is there anything being dne to offset that>
[11:05:55]  Melody Regent: it is ALOT more cumbersome and difficult to set up. I would be happy to have a match that is equal, so when will we see the real match?
[11:06:16]  Jean Swashbuckler: good question Mari
[11:06:25]  Marianne McCann: Strawmaning a bit on my part, but I don’t see how that helps maintain use of inworld land
[11:06:31]  Alliez Mysterio: Everyone is wondering so I decided to ask you
[11:06:46]  Jack Linden: I don’t know Melody – I expect that as with a lot of the functionality we’ll be iterating on it post launch
[11:07:10]  Marianne McCann: Alliez – I think that’s the 200,000 linden question
[11:07:19]  Ciaran Laval: Are you going to give us a reasonable beta period with mesh jack? More than a month for example
[11:07:25]  Marianne McCann: (Is that the going price?)
[11:07:34]  Jack Linden: Alliez, I wouldn’t believe rumours like that. They are just that.. rumours.
[11:07:44]  Melody Regent watches what moves Jack will make as he dances around the MicroSoft topic
[11:07:59]  Marianne McCann: Ciaran – I know it’s been in private beta (alpha?) for nearly a year now
[11:08:01]  Jack Linden: Ciaran.. yes.. the Beta will run until we’re happy that we’re production ready.
[11:08:02]  Master Kane: lol mel
[11:08:23]  Master Kane: Jack >> Is Microsoft going to be buying SL and or LL?
[11:08:31]  Ciaran Laval: Sue Mari, but viewer 2 was in closed beta for a while too and look what happened there. Cheers Jack, that’s encouraging.
[11:08:38]  Alliez Mysterio: Im sure nothing can be said til its a fact. Would be nice to somehow let us know talking are on going or whatever
[11:08:49]  Jack Linden: Did make me laugh a lot though, seeing how that rumour spread across the net
[11:08:52]  Driftwood Miles: Jack there are some great features appearing on the Viewer 2 Beta and they are welcome and show the Lab are going for it. However these are all ADDITIONS and do nothing to make the experience easier for new users which has long been recognised as a major problem. What are the plans in the short term to make the viewer EASIER to use?
[11:09:16]  Ciaran Laval: The source appears to be Tizzers, whereas there could be truth in the rumour, it’s not the most sound base to start from.
[11:09:18]  Jean Swashbuckler: @Jack and continues to be picked up and spread
[11:09:32]  breeze Herrey: I think it should be cleared on the main site that yes it is just Rumers..this way we all don’t speculate
[11:09:40]  Jean Swashbuckler wonders if this rumor should be stomped down by LL PR
[11:09:51]  Ann Otoole: the slurl to this dumps people in the 4 corners spot. there are people there waiting.
[11:09:51]  Jack Linden: Ciaran.. importantly, it’ll be open while we work on it so you’ll see consecutive Viewer revisions come out as we polish the UI and fix things
[11:09:54]  Alliez Mysterio: I would think so
[11:09:57]  Marianne McCann: breeze – true. A certain level of clarity would help with the rumor mill
[11:10:11]  Xstreet SL Magic Box v3.0.11: Xstreet SL – Delivered item Regent Estates Home Office – Tier Central.
[11:10:11]  Jack Linden: Ciaran, it’s not a base at all.
[11:10:29]  Aargle Zymurgy: for a chuckle: http://marx.inworld.sl/2010/09/30/top-10-rumors-surrounding-microsoft-takeover-of-linden-lab/
[11:10:33]  Marianne McCann: I would dearly love to see a lighter (in color) UI as an option.
[11:10:45]  Jean Swashbuckler: Agree with Breeze…we have enough issues with SL and RL economy to not have to deal with this
[11:10:52]  Driftwood Miles: lighter in features as well Mari :)
[11:10:57]  Melody Regent: Jack, if they are rumor and not in any way shape or form, fact. It may be good to say something official. I am already seeing talk of people leaving and/or selling out.
[11:11:13]  Jean Swashbuckler nods at Melody
[11:11:22]  Marianne McCann: Driftwood – I might disagree with you there. If anything, I’m glad to see 2.2 slowly creeping up to what 2.0 should have been
[11:11:40]  Jack Linden: Marianne.. or one where you can fully control the colouring
[11:11:40]  Driftwood Miles: I am thinking of new users Mari :) not experienced
[11:11:46]  Ann Otoole: if microsoft should ever put forth a tender offer i recommend all lindens research what happened with the eshop acquisition in 1996 and the subsequent happenings in 1997.
[11:11:58]  Marianne McCann: Melody – agreed. This is one to make at least *some* statement on.
[11:12:17]  Master Kane: excatly anna
[11:12:19]  Master Kane: ann*
[11:12:35]  Jack Linden: Melody, I’m not sure what the PR folks will choose to do. We’ve had these rumours before, many times.
[11:12:36]  Ciaran Laval: Making a statement about Microsoft will have LL’s legal dept walking on eggshells, I wouldn’t envy them
[11:12:48]  Ann Otoole: i.e.; don’t sell your home in sf and pull your kids out of their lives to go to redmaond and be terminated.
[11:13:00]  Marianne McCann: Ya, I seem to recall old Google speculations, back pre-Lively
[11:13:07]  Master Kane: so if youve had these rumors before.. what would make us think that this time they are not true?
[11:13:12]  Melody Regent: Yes, but moral is at an all time low in game. There are far to many things fucked up right now to let something like this go on ignored.
[11:13:15]  Driftwood Miles: I heard BP had an interest
[11:13:37]  Aargle Zymurgy: “BP… bringing oil to your shores.”
[11:13:41]  Jack Linden: Marianne, yes.. that was one that ran for a while
[11:13:43]  Master Kane: nah drift.. cant believe oil slug
[11:13:45]  Ann Otoole: hey if i won the powerball i might buy up a lot of shares lol
[11:14:28]  Driftwood Miles: I was talking about Belindas Pastries “as light as air”
[11:14:35]  Marianne McCann: I agree, though, Melody. This whole year has been on punch after another. Hard to keep moral and stuff up
[11:14:57]  Daniel Voyager: nods
[11:14:57]  breeze Herrey: It would be a sad thing if its true and Microsoft announce it before LL does, is why the point should be taken to put it up somewhere to clearup the rumors
[11:14:59]  Aargle Zymurgy: lindex is back to normal.
[11:15:01]  Marianne McCann: morale*
[11:15:02]  Jack Linden: how many of you guys will be trying out the Mesh beta?
[11:15:06]  Jack Linden: Just curious
[11:15:13]  Ciaran Laval: I will Jack
[11:15:16]  Driftwood Miles: For sure Jack
[11:15:21]  Daniel Voyager: Indeed.
[11:15:22]  Master Kane: why jack.. want us to go try to crash the beta grid?
[11:15:22]  Jean Swashbuckler: yep
[11:15:23]  Master Kane: lol
[11:15:24]  Marianne McCann: I’ve been in Mesh for the last several months
[11:15:26]  Master Kane: Im up for it
[11:15:47]  Jack Linden: excellent. so i’ll get some feedback in my office hours then? :)
[11:15:48]  Marianne McCann: (Yay for lifted NDAs!)
[11:15:55]  Bronson Blackadder: im already in the mesh beta
[11:15:55]  Master Kane: one thing though jack
[11:15:56]  Qie Niangao: I will, assuming there’s anything interesting to script
[11:16:15]  Bronson Blackadder: I must tel;l everyone here who hasent seen it yet, Mesh rocks
[11:16:15]  Master Kane: if we DO crash the grid… we do not get suspended or it goes on our accounts
[11:16:18]  Melody Regent: maybe lift a few other NDAs Jack?
[11:16:39]  Drongle McMahon: Do you want mesh discussions here Jack?
[11:16:42]  Marianne McCann: Agreed, Bronson. I’m concerned about what it might all cost in the end, but the results are so much nicer than, say, sculpt
[11:16:52]  Jack Linden: Master.. you mean in the Mesh beta? that’s a separate grid.. and no, you’d be fine (presuming it wasn’t deliberate of course)
[11:17:02]  Master Kane: yes I know jack :)
[11:17:12]  Jack Linden: Drongle – feedback here would be great
[11:17:14]  Marianne McCann: Better be okay, for the number of times the old mesh testing sims crashed….
[11:17:25]  Jack Linden: Mesh is one my projects so the more I know, the better
[11:18:03]  Drongle McMahon: Oh good. We xcan talk abot mesh costs when they are a bit more sorted.
[11:18:06]  Marianne McCann: Jack – I think, from a creator’s standpoint, i’m most keen to know what it will cost those of us using it.
[11:18:13]  Ciaran Laval: Mari can spill the beans now the NDA has been lifted
[11:18:14]  Jack Linden: Yes Drongle
[11:18:14]  Qie Niangao: There should be Mesh office hours on Aditi, too… may want to attend some of those.
[11:18:33]  Master Kane: Agreed Qie
[11:18:46]  Jack Linden: Marianne, yeah we’re still talking about what the upload cost will be, and what the relative prim costs will be
[11:18:51]  Driftwood Miles: is there any infos on poly limits etc?
[11:18:53]  Marianne McCann: oh, there are others spilling a lot more beans than I
[11:19:10]  Marianne McCann: (on Mesh)
[11:19:17]  Jack Linden: And also, how it affects prims themselves.. do we move to a larger prim maximum for example because Meshes will be able to be much larger than 10m
[11:19:52]  Ann Otoole: i think mesh will be great. as long as it doesn’t kill the core of the existing designers and cause a domino effect of land abandonment and large decrease in tier revenues for LL. A few LL buddies can’t float all of LL’s expenses.
[11:19:53]  Jack Linden: Driftwood, not yet but that info will start to come out soonish we hope
[11:20:12]  Driftwood Miles: ty
[11:20:44]  Marianne McCann: ‘s true, Ann. Well, it kinda goes back, to, to what I was sayin about Marketplace. How do we keep land being a valued asset, especially for creators to build, have stoes, etc.
[11:20:52]  Drongle McMahon: The problem isn that meshes will be costed by actual resource use, while stabdar and sculpted prims are not. This may preclude use of mesh in some cases where they could be much more resource efficient.
[11:21:06]  Bronson Blackadder: if there was a few more little options for normal prim editing, the prim builders will still be viable
[11:21:08]  Jack Linden: Ann, we’ve discussed that a lot internally.. around what the impact on the economy might be. We don’t think prims will go away at all, we think that it’s more a case of combinations of content types
[11:21:11]  Ciaran Laval: What are the concerns with how they render? Will they be a lag fest if not done correctly?
[11:21:16]  Drongle McMahon: * syadbar=standard !!
[11:21:39]  Marianne McCann: Ciaran -from my view, they’re easier render=wise than some sculpts
[11:21:40]  Bronson Blackadder: I am a prim builder and I still will build with prims, but I like the ability to use mesh too
[11:22:04]  Marianne McCann: An ya, I’ll continue to use whatever is best for the job. Sculpt, mesh, prim…
[11:22:08]  Ann Otoole: i see no group of mesh beta members out there striving to help anyone adjust. all they do is say gtfo and watch some magic tutorial that doesn’t exist. So the onus will be on LL for education.
[11:22:22]  Jack Linden: Ciaran, a Mesh can be costly if not brought in efficiently (such as the Physics shape for example)
[11:22:24]  Zoha Boa: Jack, will the current viewers be able to show mesh, or is there a new viewer needed ?
[11:22:41]  Drongle McMahon: Meshes can be much more efficienjt to render. The significant costs are downloas and physics.
[11:22:42]  Jack Linden: But in general, Meshes offer some substantial improvements if done well
[11:23:02]  Jack Linden: Zoha, for the Beta we’ll be pushing out a test Viewer
[11:23:03]  Bronson Blackadder: we cant really help too much yet because everything is still in flux ann
[11:23:28]  Zoha Boa: So the current viewers can’t display mesh ?
[11:23:36]  Ann Otoole: as for me i got in the autodesk assistance program and will learn 3DS max and the other high end tools. but rumors about darth ballmer and the microsith empire grabbing SL kills confidence so i hope it is all bs
[11:23:37]  Bronson Blackadder: nope
[11:23:41]  Marianne McCann: Zoha – I susect it will require the code for it. So ya… I suspect that’ll be the end of 1.23
[11:23:44]  Bronson Blackadder: at least not yet
[11:23:54]  Driftwood Miles: Mesh raises the level of specialist knowledge required to create. Even if prims do still exist the casual user will be less inclined to create as the mo has been moved
[11:24:04]  Drongle McMahon: Yes. All the stuff we have made is about to be destroyed some coding change ….. shrug
[11:24:39]  Bronson Blackadder: mesh will no more raise the bar then sculpts did
[11:24:46]  Qie Niangao: bullshit
[11:24:46]  Drongle McMahon: Drift. I think that is a very valid concern.
[11:24:53]  Bronson Blackadder: sculpts came around and everyone bitched then
[11:24:59]  Bronson Blackadder: this is no different
[11:25:06]  Aargle Zymurgy: well, the sculpties were never a problem.
[11:25:07]  Ciaran Laval: I think those proficient with prims will still make good stuff, even when mesh is here
[11:25:10]  Marianne McCann: Mesh is in many ways more specialized
[11:25:25]  Marianne McCann: Er, sorry, less specialized than sculpts
[11:25:28]  Driftwood Miles: sculpties are a blunt instrument
[11:25:30]  Bronson Blackadder: but if you can build a model in sculpt you can make a mesh
[11:25:31]  Ann Otoole: and assinine attitudes on the part of mesh pundits is having a negative effect. Maybe LL should take the mesh beta members aside and tell them to deal with it in a different manner. like being supportive instead of what is going on.
[11:25:41]  Bronson Blackadder: mesh just looks better and rezzes faster
[11:25:42]  Jack Linden: I also think that we’ll see component pieces done in Mesh and combined.. as we did with Sculpty cushions for example
[11:25:50]  Marianne McCann: I can see that, Ann.
[11:25:58]  Marianne McCann: to me, it’s just another tool
[11:26:04]  Driftwood Miles: “just”?
[11:26:14]  Drongle McMahon: Ann. Some of us are trying.
[11:26:27]  Bronson Blackadder: ann we WANT to help
[11:26:27]  Ann Otoole: i see it as a way to make better stuff with less vertices.
[11:26:38]  Bronson Blackadder: we just dont want to say one thing one day
[11:26:56]  Bronson Blackadder: only to have it change on us later
[11:27:11]  Ann Otoole: i also can easily make the prediction that whatever the maximum is the products will strive to reach it lol
[11:27:15]  Qie Niangao: mesh is much *much* more than sculpts could ever be. the avatar rigging alone makes it a game-changer.
[11:27:18]  Aargle Zymurgy: the problem for me with mesh is a matter of finding the right tools.
[11:27:20]  Bronson Blackadder: when every detail is solidified we CAN help
[11:27:34]  Jack Linden: Ha Ann, quite
[11:28:01]  Jack Linden: Qie.. yes.. avatar rigging is going to change avatar building. Some amazing possibilities
[11:28:05]  Driftwood Miles: Jack , how does LL intend to deal with the very likely influx of models arriving form no LL source…ie Renderosity, Turbosquid and all those other Freebie repositories?
[11:28:24]  Drongle McMahon: I made a rope ladder that exceeded the prim capacity of a whole sim.
[11:28:35]  Ann Otoole: yes. a 30 meter tall Cthu’lhu rising from the ocean to terrorize the mainland would be impressive.
[11:28:46]  Jack Linden: Driftwood, it’s not unlike all the textures that come from other places. If there are violations then we’ll deal with those
[11:29:17]  Driftwood Miles: a texture is not an end product
[11:29:21]  Ann Otoole: next thing you know all the super models are Victoria clones and are 30 meters tall
[11:29:58]  Jack Linden: True Drift (though they are sold as such), but the point is the same – we have a process for violations of IP – and it will apply
[11:29:59]  Nema Galicia: i want to be 30 meters talll but do i have to be a victoria clone?
[11:30:22]  Master Kane: http://blog.machinimatrix.org/2010/09/15/meshes-i-a-preliminary-tutorial-about-meshes/
[11:30:25]  Aargle Zymurgy: just tell the noobs how tall they are. Noob: “I made myself short like RL.” Me: “you’re 6’5″ Noob: “OMG!”
[11:30:33]  Qie Niangao: ah hah! big avatars need big parcels! I knew there was a land play in here somewhere.
[11:30:38]  Ciaran Laval: From what the mesh folk have been saying, you won’t be able to just download a set from a third party site, you still have to do something with it
[11:30:49]  Jack Linden: Ha Qie!
[11:31:04]  Jack Linden: Yes, our cunning plan to make avatars giant, to sell more land.
[11:31:10]  Qie Niangao: :D
[11:31:11]  Driftwood Miles: here will be plenty of scripts appear for conversions
[11:31:32]  Melody Regent perks up at the idea of selling more land “WIll you fix the marketplace to handle it too Jack?” Smiles
[11:31:43]  Zoha Boa: you will have to create a new linden home continent
[11:32:00]  Ann Otoole: the limits will cause people to have to have skills to segment models. but if I want a mansion that is on a model site and can’t do the cutting then i can hire a better modeler to make the rez package. Not for sale of course.
[11:32:53]  Ann Otoole: models out there don’t really follow typical SL land plot sizes though.
[11:33:19]  Jack Linden: It may also be true that those other sites may recognise Second Life as a new license opportunity and allow for use inworld
[11:33:33]  Driftwood Miles: hence the marketplace
[11:33:34]  Ann Otoole: but for 200 ktris/fr worth of mesh, which is a drop in the bucket, you can have a dang fine castle.
[11:34:16]  Ann Otoole: i read 2000+ ktris/fr here
[11:34:22]  Ann Otoole: 2 million polys
[11:34:35]  Ann Otoole: ten times an elaborate mansion i looked at
[11:34:57]  Jack Linden: I’m most excited about Mesh hair.. quite honestly.. because of how much more efficient it will be than prim hair
[11:35:10]  Master Kane: http://blog.machinimatrix.org/2010/09/15/meshes-i-a-preliminary-tutorial-about-meshes/
[11:35:12]  Master Kane: http://www.1up.com/news/microsoft-may-purchase-second-life-dev
[11:35:14]  Jack Linden: Prim hair is scary expensive in terms of load
[11:35:20]  breeze Herrey: thank god i can use better hair
[11:35:29]  Ann Otoole: i want cloth. like a dress like this that doesn’t have sredded prims dangling
[11:35:41]  Ardy Lay: Hell, they can’t even get the name right.
[11:36:18]  Ann Otoole: all we need then is real time reflectivity on the cloth and attachments
[11:36:24]  Master Kane: lol niiiiice landing sera!
[11:36:30]  Sera Lok: sorry >.<
[11:36:31]  Jack Linden: ouchies
[11:36:32]  Sera Lok: lol
[11:36:33]  Jack Linden: :)
[11:36:35]  Sera Lok: got all excited
[11:36:40]  Master Kane: mhm guess so
[11:36:42]  Master Kane: :)
[11:36:43]  Drongle McMahon: There are real dangers if attached mesh complexity is not limited.
[11:36:50]  Master Kane: bet 5jack liked it though hehe
[11:36:54]  Jack Linden: Agreed Drongle
[11:37:12]  Melody Regent: I want to see some EXPORTING from SL into RL. What kind of team allocations are you putting towards that. Like the ability to TP or change your body type in RL?
[11:37:19]  Drongle McMahon: So far there are no flexi meshes.
[11:37:25]  Master Kane: meshes cannot be exported
[11:37:51]  Ardy Lay: origami?
[11:37:56]  Master Kane: but other things.. I agree, mel.. we need a way to back up our inventories our selvs
[11:38:04]  Nema Galicia: Mel they will be blogging about that soon just not sure when it will come out
[11:38:05]  Aargle Zymurgy chuckles at Melody’s comment
[11:38:06]  Melody Regent: LOL, Master
[11:38:11]  Melody Regent: he didnt read it right
[11:38:12]  Jack Linden: Melody, we’d love to make teleporting work inthe real world.. just not sure we have the resources
[11:38:13]  Aargle Zymurgy: I’d like to export my abs.
[11:38:26]  Melody Regent: Maybe upgrade our servers?
[11:38:32]  Zoha Boa: it’s way to laggy in RL
[11:38:39]  Aargle Zymurgy: Jack… any chance I can get a bear? my collection is lacking yours
[11:38:49]  Jack Linden: Yeah, and a failed TP in the real world might be the last thing you do
[11:38:49]  Melody Regent: Would make the cost of housing less if we could use mesh for building
[11:39:06]  Master Kane: well come on mel….. rl what… hard drive or closets lol.. geesh.. you women.. :) )
[11:39:19]  Driftwood Miles: I wonder how many people would step into an RL teleporter that was labelled “Manufactured by Linden Lab”
[11:39:20]  Sera Lok likes her solid prims >:| dammit
[11:39:29]  Sera Lok: tp box
[11:39:51]  Master Kane: or, “May contain radiation”
[11:40:01]  Jack Linden strikes Driftwood off the alphatester list
[11:40:06]  Nema Galicia: can you imagian tping and comming otu ruithed in rl
[11:40:08]  Melody Regent: I told a client today how much his tier would be on the new house he was buying. I then went to the market place to find stroner coffee. Basically, it was a *fail* day all around
[11:40:08]  Nema Galicia: omgee
[11:40:12]  Zoha Boa: Jack, any news about prices for 2011 ?
[11:40:13]  Sera Lok: sorry i came in late… is ther something about IBM going on? :)
[11:40:14]  breeze Herrey: sorry
[11:40:16]  Driftwood Miles: <<is SO disappointed ;)
[11:40:36]  Driftwood Miles: I prefer my hair on my head :P
[11:40:44]  Jack Linden: Zoha, no.. but I have seen the blog post draft so hang in there. More soon.
[11:40:55]  Melody Regent: Sera is is a rumor and Jack promised to call everyone personally to explain that it is not true
[11:41:16]  Sera Lok: i was wondering why LL doing all this new marketplace stuff if they just going to sell, but yanno… if it’s true just tell us :D
[11:41:25]  Master Kane: LOL>. 1-800-CALL-RUMORS, right mel?
[11:41:27]  Qie Niangao: wait. IBM? cool: a bidding war.
[11:41:33]  Dennis Lagan: It may actually be google. thats why the side bar was introduced. it will evolve to a google add bar that automatically shows relevent adds for chat and objects nearby. everyone will get 3000 sq m free land, with 1GB data storage (textures, prims, scripts, inventory). and if you want you can get more storage for a price ofcourse.
[11:41:34]  Alliez Mysterio: he didnt say it was not true only that its a rumor
[11:41:38]  Sera Lok: my phone number is:::: 555-1212
[11:41:40]  Driftwood Miles: Burger King are the suitors
[11:41:47]  Aargle Zymurgy: thanks Jack
[11:41:53]  Master Kane: well there is alot of urls on the web dated today
[11:41:56]  Sera Lok: so is it… somewhat true?:)
[11:41:57]  Master Kane: i posted one
[11:42:09]  Jean Swashbuckler: @Qie…if it’s a biddin war…then Dell will get into the mix
[11:42:19]  Marianne McCann: AOL, all the way
[11:42:24]  Sera Lok: nooooo
[11:42:27]  Driftwood Miles: or Autodesk lol
[11:42:27]  Ann Otoole: LL doesn’t respond to rumors. Make a tender offer instead and they might talk. :P
[11:42:37]  Jack Linden: Are any of you guys using the latest beta of Viewer 2.2?
[11:42:44]  Jean Swashbuckler: yes
[11:42:46]  Techwolf Lupindo: No
[11:42:46]  Jayson Dorn: I am
[11:42:47]  Sera Lok: i tried it for a bit
[11:42:49]  Ann Otoole: i am using the beta now
[11:42:52]  Melody Regent: Yes Jack, as a dart board
[11:42:52]  Jack Linden: How are you finding the tear off tabs?
[11:42:52]  Qie Niangao: Jack, using a dev 2.2.1
[11:42:55]  Sera Lok: i still hate v2 for various reason
[11:42:58]  Master Kane: I treid it Jack.. and sadly to say… its the same.. make me sick
[11:43:00]  Sera Lok: better but odd
[11:43:01]  Driftwood Miles: tried it
[11:43:03]  Jayson Dorn: lov the tear off tabs
[11:43:05]  Ann Otoole: Second Life 2.2.0 (210127) Sep 21 2010 16:02:42 (Second Life Beta Viewer)
[11:43:13]  Bronson Blackadder: omg omg Ontyne is buying LL !!!!!!!
[11:43:18]  Alliez Mysterio: lol
[11:43:18]  Marianne McCann: Still on 2.1 here. Keep meaning to grab 2.2
[11:43:19]  Sera Lok: i still can’t do simple things. like open up a tabbed window of properties for a selected amount of assets
[11:43:21]  Master Kane: slaps bronson
[11:43:22]  Qie Niangao: still really, really need to have profiles and groups available at the same time
[11:43:23]  Nema Galicia: not me again it makes me physicaly ill
[11:43:24]  Dennis Lagan: no, its hard to start using a product that was unusable at first.
[11:43:28]  breeze Herrey: no offense but im not crazy about 2.0 – 2.2
[11:43:29]  Aargle Zymurgy slaps bronson too
[11:43:34]  Ardy Lay: Second Life 2.2.1 (210917) Sep 30 2010 05:11:51 (Second Life Development)
[11:43:41]  Ann Otoole: only crashed a few times at Spikes party last night. made it over 1.5gb mem for a while. better than the old.
[11:43:41]  Nema Galicia: I would love to have a viewer i can use 1.23 is gettting old but…
[11:43:41]  Alexxa Despres: Me as well Nema…gives me a headache :(
[11:43:42]  Bronson Blackadder rubs both sides of his face
[11:43:42]  Sera Lok: i’ve been meaning to file a JIRA, jack, but i am TOO busy figuring out the new marketplace since everything changes at the same time… :|
[11:43:42]  Jack Linden: Qie, yes.. we’re working on revamping Profiles.
[11:43:47]  Techwolf Lupindo: Phoenix Viewer 1.5.1 (366) Sep 30 2010 10:36:28 (Phoenix Viewer Gentoo)
[11:44:02]  Sera Lok: yes, once again I think a Viewer1.23 UI would be a good and very obvious step to get people to adopt
[11:44:09]  Qie Niangao: thanks Jack. I’ve kinda lost track of snowstorm sprint plans
[11:44:18]  Marianne McCann: Too used to 2.x to go back to 1.23
[11:44:22]  Driftwood Miles: the bottom right confusion corner is too messy
[11:44:36]  Jayson Dorn: now see I love the bottom right corner
[11:44:38]  Jean Swashbuckler: good news on the profiles/groups
[11:44:38]  Sera Lok: but a choice of a viewer1 UI would be very nice as an option. not a necessity. an option.
[11:44:38]  Marianne McCann: Driftwood – I agree. I call it “the black hole” for a reason
[11:44:45]  Jack Linden: Drift.. agreed. That will get addressed too.
[11:45:05]  Driftwood Miles: that could be a huge improvement Jack!
[11:45:06]  Master Kane: My Personal Viewer 10.30.2010 (BR549) Sept 30 2010 12:08:26 (Second Life Release)
[11:45:08]  Zoha Boa Emerald Viewer 1.2 ….ups
[11:45:08]  Ann Otoole: once you use it steady for 2 weeks it is not so bad. especially with the sidebar improvements. but need the graphics enhancements from kirstens to make it rock
[11:45:19]  Nema Galicia: I want new options but wht i need is the same format I guess I am saying as 1.23
[11:45:28]  Jack Linden: Ann, which enhancements specifically?
[11:45:30]  Sera Lok: personally i don’t understand why LL is not doing better announcment of what is happening with profiles to web, etc
[11:45:57]  Ciaran Laval: This is easily the best version of viewer 2, by a country mile.
[11:46:02]  Marianne McCann: Overall I’m happier with it now than I was before, but there’s still some fixes that I’d love to see, as well as the planned enhancements to groups and profiles.
[11:46:06]  Ann Otoole: all of the extra panels for graphics in kirstens. complete control of shadows, etc. turning on shadows is easy, etc.
[11:46:09]  Qie Niangao: actually, 2.2 expose more of those shadows options in the Develop tab… it’s not Kirsten’s but its better
[11:46:11]  Driftwood Miles: 2.2 Ciaran?
[11:46:15]  Alexxa Despres: There are things I love about V2 but I DO think as Marianne said…a lighter color would be better. I think the drab grey makes it harder to look at…hence the headache
[11:46:18]  Sera Lok: nice, Qie
[11:46:21]  Ann Otoole: it is all debug settings in SLv2.x
[11:46:31]  Sera Lok: or just a few options that are easy to do for the lay user! with colors
[11:46:31]  Ciaran Laval: Yeah the latest one, I lose track of the number I just follow the forced upgrade
[11:46:39]  Sera Lok: a few ‘themes”
[11:46:44]  Ann Otoole: just a ui to make it easier than messing with debug settings
[11:46:49]  Marianne McCann: Ya, Alexxa – even if just a skinning option. It would make staring at this that much nicer
[11:46:54]  Alexxa Despres: :)
[11:47:04]  Sera Lok: nodnod skinning please!
[11:47:06]  Ann Otoole: stick it under advanced or develop for all i care lol
[11:47:09]  Driftwood Miles: K, I love some of the features, but confusion corner drives me to distraction, so if they fix that then hay…game on!
[11:47:11]  Ciaran Laval: When are we getting avatar physics though?
[11:47:17]  Master Kane: I read somewhere, that they were going to allow skins.. and there is some on the wikie already for v2
[11:47:18]  Aargle Zymurgy: I thought you COULD skin v2 by tinkering with the xml settings
[11:47:18]  Sera Lok: most of us don’t want to deal with xml files and blablah
[11:47:20]  Jack Linden: Yeah, skinning is a better option than us trying to pick the colours
[11:47:30]  Sera Lok: aargle see above lol
[11:47:31]  Alexxa Despres: Ciaran… your perviness is showing :P
[11:47:32]  Ann Otoole: kirstens has several skins
[11:47:36]  Jack Linden: Aargle.. you can I believe
[11:47:45]  Aargle Zymurgy: yes, sera. we said it at the same time. :-)
[11:47:51]  Master Kane: I can see jacks viewer… UK Flag
[11:47:52]  Ann Otoole: also jack those windlight settings that are shareable are really great.
[11:47:57]  Marianne McCann: Heck, I’d even love to see the option to use a system UI option.
[11:48:12]  Ciaran Laval: It was a perfectly innocent question, I didn’t mention jiggly boobies
[11:48:13]  Sera Lok: :) i am a lazy one, i want pushbuttons. and draw distance changeable from the main panel
[11:48:18]  Ann Otoole: something else long promised and delivered by katherine berry and found in kirstens
[11:48:18]  Marianne McCann: Ann – for yers I’ve been waiting for sharable asset windlight, and region settings for it
[11:48:31]  Master Kane: Imprudence Sera
[11:48:48]  Sera Lok: just take a look at imprudence and do what they do (it’s what i use Master lol)
[11:48:57]  Master Kane: yep
[11:49:00]  Sera Lok: idon’t like using LL viewers anymore because of the better options from Imp
[11:49:06]  Qie Niangao: region-setting of Windlight really would make SL a more interesting place.
[11:49:09]  Aargle Zymurgy: well, I’m waiting for C#… then I’ll get excited about meshes and v2 client
[11:49:15]  Sera Lok: like searching in a notecard for a certain word…. for one tiny example
[11:49:21]  breeze Herrey: they they every fix the search window where you search for something tp , then have to search again?
[11:49:30]  Bronson Blackadder: I use a plethora of viewers
[11:49:38]  Marianne McCann: Aargle – I believe that was Babbage’s baby. You might be waiting for a while
[11:49:43]  Bronson Blackadder: including several versions of LL viewers
[11:50:03]  Aargle Zymurgy: yeah, Marianne… I got sort of excited when I saw his name turn up in group chat yesterday.
[11:50:15]  Bronson Blackadder: I like the improvements LL has made so far since the disaster of 2.0 and look forward to further improvements
[11:50:18]  Sera Lok: i would use LL viewers, in fact i PREFER to, but they just don’t offer features I tend to use every day
[11:50:19]  Marianne McCann: I so wish the LL viewer had the temp uploads of, say, Phoenix. I can dream
[11:50:19]  Ciaran Laval: They fixed it Breeze, then some buffoon decided it should be broken again
[11:50:19]  Aargle Zymurgy: I got the impression that the project was going to resume.
[11:50:50]  Qie Niangao: breeze: not exactly. you can go back to the last search, which is clumsy as hell, but (mostly) works. I’ve pretty much quit using in-world search, tbh.
[11:51:12]  Marianne McCann: Qie – likewise.
[11:51:44]  Jack Linden: What do you use instead Qie?
[11:51:50]  Qie Niangao: search.secondlife.com
[11:52:03]  Qie Niangao: it’s only PG, but at least I can get to what it finds
[11:52:09]  Jack Linden nods
[11:52:17]  Aargle Zymurgy: as a developer and scripter, I still find it easier to use something like Phoenix
[11:52:24]  Ciaran Laval: There are switches you can use Qie, I think &mat=7 allows all ratings
[11:52:30]  Qie Niangao: ooo!
[11:52:37]  Sera Lok: search could be great if you’re looking for a 5 word search.. except for the fact that everyone is targeting 1 and 2 word searches, which are a MESS, and so no one wins because the 5 words aren’t on good pages that are trying to target for 1 or 2 words.
[11:52:37]  Qie Niangao: thanks, Ciaran!
[11:52:37]  Ann Otoole: heh that marketplace search can be such a problem i made my own custom big google search for SLM lol. at http://annotoole.com
[11:52:49]  Ciaran Laval: The full list is on one of the wiki pages
[11:52:51]  Aargle Zymurgy: having named constants in my scripts is worth using a TPV for
[11:53:07]  Sera Lok: the Search is a mess and puts more power into the merchants’ hands than the consumers
[11:53:18]  Aargle Zymurgy: though I did work that out so I can do the same externally and then import into SL using V2
[11:53:28]  Ann Otoole: i am not having issues with the GSA in world. not at all. doing well actually. i learned how things work.
[11:54:15]  Sera Lok: not having a problem as a merchant or a customer? or both?
[11:54:32]  Ann Otoole: i’ll never make page 1 in jewelry. the top end has over 1500 products and 3-4 more per week. can’t compete. only 100 merchants per niche sadly.
[11:54:33]  Qie Niangao: incidentally, lest we fail to mention microparcels: Good to see GOLD COINS bite the dust, finally.
[11:54:36]  Ciaran Laval: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SearchAPI
[11:54:44]  Ciaran Laval: It’s all there Qie
[11:54:44]  Jack Linden: Yes, Qie
[11:54:55]  Drongle McMahon: Oh yes Jack …. Haven;t discussed microplots for ages, so congratulations on the ending of the Gold Coins microplot empire.
[11:54:56]  Qie Niangao: (thanks Ciaran… bookmarking it now)
[11:55:09]  Drongle McMahon: Ah! SNAP Qie
[11:55:12]  Techwolf Lupindo: The biggest challenge for search I think was to showhorn in a GSA that was designed for web pages with content. Not index a lot of short describtions and keywords.
[11:55:15]  Sera Lok: ty Ciaran.. this looks.. updated.. lol
[11:55:21]  Ann Otoole: not having any issues as a merchant. since i mainly shop via blog feeds and word of mouth i seldom use search for personal things
[11:55:51]  Sera Lok: i don’t really use search and that’s how it works for me as a customer
[11:56:09]  Techwolf Lupindo: I wonder if the microplotter are simply going out of busness instead of being force off the grid.
[11:56:12]  Nema Galicia: i use search alot and prefer to shop in world
[11:56:31]  Marianne McCann: Ann – I’m much the same on that. I end up with word of mouth, favorite stores, etc.
[11:56:44]  Ann Otoole: the main issue i have with search today is events. LL really needs to begion penalizing these merchants spamming fake contests 24*7
[11:56:56]  Sera Lok: i like the classifieds, if someone can afford a good classified for a span of time they probably are a good biz. but hey, wouldn’t it be nice if money i paid for classifieds had SOME effect on my ranking in search? or is that not fair…?
[11:57:03]  Ciaran Laval: Well events and land search, land search still sucks
[11:57:06]  Ann Otoole: people stopped listing events because the spam makes it pointless
[11:57:08]  Jack Linden: Ann, that’s definitely a problem. It is much better than it was though
[11:57:13]  Sera Lok: even though classifieds don’t even SHOW UP in many viewers!
[11:57:34]  Marianne McCann: I still do list events, Ann – but I agree. Hard to find them burined under the spam
[11:57:45]  Marianne McCann: buried*
[11:57:46]  Techwolf Lupindo: I like to have a search where the only thing that can be returned is if there is a classified on it.
[11:57:46]  Ann Otoole: the endless 4000L event went away. now thee is the endless 500L one instead lmao
[11:57:47]  Master Kane: Oh that brings up a good one Ann….. all the spammers when you goto their shops for something or other, hunt, looking, random map tp etc… that crap has to stop
[11:57:55]  Ann Otoole: *5000L
[11:58:05]  Sera Lok: at least they do not effect search anymore so you don’t have “improve your life with furniture” ads every 2 hours
[11:58:26]  Master Kane: I will ar those everytime until it stops! I didnt ask for it and I didnt sign up for it

[11:58:45]  Ann Otoole: yea but we need people to start listing events again. 30000 regions and only 20 places have anything going on?[11:59:02]  Jean Swashbuckler nods at Ann
[11:59:06]  Sera Lok nods, agrees Events need to have someone dedicated to watch the listings!
[11:59:07]  Jack Linden: Right, I’d best run.. thank you all for coming along this week!
[11:59:07]  Marianne McCann: Agreed
[11:59:09]  Master Kane: most are abandoned lol (shrugs)
[11:59:13]  Sera Lok: put someone on it Jack!
[11:59:15]  Aargle Zymurgy: ugh… try getting the feedback I get from club owners when other spam their places.
[11:59:17]  Marianne McCann: See ya Jack
[11:59:18]  Qie Niangao: Thanks, Jack.
[11:59:21]  Ann Otoole: thanks Jack
[11:59:21]  Jack Linden: Take care all!
[11:59:24]  Alexxa Despres: Bye Jack… have a good one
[11:59:26]  Aargle Zymurgy: bye Jack
[11:59:26]  Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!
[11:59:27]  Alexxa Despres: Bye all ;)
[11:59:29]  Jean Swashbuckler: thanks Jack
[11:59:31]  Zoha Boa: take care
[11:59:31]  Ardy Lay: Bye Jack
[11:59:31]  Alliez Mysterio: take care Jack
[11:59:32]  Driftwood Miles: Thanks Jack
[11:59:33]  Sera Lok: bye..:) cheers
[11:59:38]  Jayson Dorn: thanks Jack
[11:59:41]  Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack

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