Jack Lindens Office Hours 7-22-2010
Transcripts provided by Jorja Giano
[11:01] Qie Niangao: greetings, Jack
[11:01] Sonya Haight: hi Jack
[11:01] Lady Sakai: PINK !!!!!
[11:01] Equinox Pinion: hi jack
[11:01] Alexxa Despres: Hi Jack 
[11:01] Uni Ninetails: lo jack
[11:01] Zep Palen: Ok evenybody…Jack is about to arrive…be ready to dump your questions on him ?
[11:01] Jack Linden: hey guys
[11:01] Lady Sakai: oh boy did I just run over a bunch of ppl ?
[11:01] Master Kane: hi jack welcome back to sl 
[11:01] Lady Sakai: hi Jack
[11:01] Jolee Baxton: Hi Jack
[11:01] Sammy Hermit: Hi Jack
[11:01] Gregg Barrymore: hi jack long time no see
[11:01] Medhue Simoni: hi jack
[11:01] Jack Linden: one sec while i fix my audio
[11:01] xstorm Radek: hi Jack
[11:01] Zep Palen: Hi Jack
[11:01] Alexxa Despres: <<thinks Jack is going to serenade us 
[11:02] Jolee Baxton: lol..
[11:02] Jack Linden: alexxa, nobody wants to hear that
[11:02] Jack Linden:
[11:02] Alexxa Despres: Hmmm.depends on what song you sing ;P
[11:02] Equinox Pinion: i would LOVE to hear that *g*
[11:02] Zep Palen: thats probably true
[11:02] Master Kane: never know jack. might be better than some of your answers 
[11:02] Equinox Pinion: lol
[11:02] Uni Ninetails: so whats the good news Jack?
[11:02] Jack Linden: oh Master, man.. 2 mins in!
[11:03] Bronson Blackadder: poorjack
[11:03] Jack Linden: harsh
[11:03] Gregg Barrymore: oO0Oo
[11:03] Master Kane: LOL
[11:03] Sonya Haight thumps MK, told you to behave
[11:03] Bitsy Giano: why do we get storms here every time you guys have a meeting
[11:03] kaiya Manbi: is jayson jacks body guard? ?
[11:03] Master Kane looks at ground and kicks the dirt… oookie…
[11:03] Bitsy Giano: is there a way for me to blame Jack on that?
[11:03] Serra Anansi: Bitsy, its an omen
[11:03] Sonya Haight: for a few minutes anyway, then you can go for it
[11:03] Get Parcel Info Hud: This Parcel Webpage http://world.secondlife.com/place/e3a490e5-befd-415f-9052-47b3abac9b73
[11:03] Jack Linden: okays, my audio is vaguely working again. soo.. we’ve a bunch of stuff to discuss this week i’m sure.. how many of you are using v2.1?
[11:03] Jayson Dorn: don’t pay me enough for that
[11:03] Jayson Dorn: nothing personal Jack
[11:03] Bitsy Giano: Jack fix it please its thundering LOL
[11:04] Serra Anansi raises her hand
[11:04] Equinox Pinion: i refuse to use it
[11:04] Alexxa Despres: V what?
[11:04] Alexxa Despres:
[11:04] Serra Anansi: I like it
[11:04] Equinox Pinion: lol
[11:04] Pamela Galli: no
[11:04] Qie Niangao: I’m on 2.1
[11:04] kaiya Manbi: not me
[11:04] Rene Erlanger: lol Viewer 2.0 seires…..abort abort
[11:04] Fly-Bangle de Lux 2.1: All Go
[11:04] Master Kane: OK here comes my interest…
[11:04] Ardy Lay: Jack, I am using it.
[11:04] Lady Sakai: Im with Equi on that … sorry jack
[11:04] Master Kane: Jack -> Do you have any information on the script limits as to when we will start seeing them taking effect? Also, is there a WIKI on it some where that we can read about it and what to expect it to do to those entering a sim/region when they have to many scripts on? Thanks
[11:04] Toothfairy Tizzy: not me
[11:04] Bronson Blackadder: raises hand
[11:04] Serra Anansi: some bad, but mostly I like it
[11:04] Gregg Barrymore: i been to busy setting up on an os griod to try it
[11:04] Uni Ninetails: Refuse to use 2.1 cause it lacks things i require to create content.
[11:04] Sammy Hermit: no but friends say they can’t log on useing it
[11:04] Jack Linden: if you’re using 2.1, how have you found performance so far?
[11:04] Jolee Baxton: Not me
[11:04] Bronson Blackadder: better
[11:04] Medhue Simoni: yep v2 here, not liking it tho
[11:04] Uni Ninetails: Hey Ardy i saw the commend about lod
[11:04] Bronson Blackadder: havent crashed on it
[11:04] Serra Anansi: SOme things are really broken.. but some other things are nice
[11:05] Bitsy Giano: I would use it some jack but every time I do it wipes all my settings!!!
[11:05] Bronson Blackadder: its a big improvement over 2.0
[11:05] Qie Niangao: haven’t seen much difference yet, Jack. Occasional random freezes for a few secs, but that’s common for me in 2.0
[11:05] Ardy Lay: Jack, better than Viewer 1.23.5 but just a little slower than Snowglobe 1.4.0
[11:05] Zep Palen: 2.1 has a big problem when opening script windows
[11:05] Jack Linden: hm okay.. from our side, the data around crash rate and fps both look much better on v2.1
[11:05] Serra Anansi: Bitsy, that will stop if you keep using it and not switch between the two
[11:05] Techwolf Lupindo: Viewew 2.x is great on resorces, but that only due to i’me not using it.
[11:05] Ardy Lay: And quite cheating by yanking detail away from us!
[11:05] Bitsy Giano: I know if I don’t switch it will
[11:05] Bitsy Giano: but I don’t care for it enough not to switch
[11:05] Qie Niangao: dunno if http textures are turned on for the 1.40 sims yet
[11:05] Bitsy Giano: I need current productivity
[11:06] Jolee Baxton: When I use v2, everytime I log in I have a newb skin, shape, etc.
[11:06] Uni Ninetails: Sooo it runs better but they dropped detail? yay?
[11:06] Jack Linden: Qie, i don’t think so yet
[11:06] Serra Anansi eyes xstorm
[11:06] xstorm Radek: Jack please do not ask how Second Life 2.1.0 (206756) Jul 9 2010 13:53:28 (Second Life Beta Viewer) is for it needs a lot of work and i will like to talk more about what steps are taken to get better support for mainland owners that have a half sim or full sim
[11:06] Jack Linden: We’re hoping to get that stuff on v. soon
[11:06] Equinox Pinion: Jack, live support is not avaible anymore 24/7 and it was not announced anywhere! What do we have to do when we have an emergency during the offline hours..wait on a phone line for 45 min listening to music?
[11:06] Ardy Lay: xstorm, quit using that build.
[11:06] Bitsy Giano: Jack are they still working on the search, since your last fix I’ve been totally dumped again
[11:07] Jolee Baxton: I want to know how small companies are supposed to get business and grow when the search is based on traffic?
[11:07] Sammy Hermit: Jack wil you ever sort search out my land hasn’t shown for weeks now ???
[11:07] Qie Niangao: Jolee: save an outfit once. after that, viewer 2 behaves much better with wearables.
[11:07] Bitsy Giano: filed support tickets, no answer in over a week
[11:07] Jack Linden: xstorm, just wanting to get some feedback.. we pushed on a lot of bugs and performance issues in 2.1 and so i was curious how people feel about it so far
[11:07] Jolee Baxton: Thanks Qie
[11:07] Alexxa Despres: Sammy…no one’s does… except for Dr Who who has NO land for rent
[11:07] xstorm Radek: and Mainland no longer has Leo Linden for any form of help at all
[11:07] Lady Sakai: Good Point Jolee .. Eliminate Traffic jack .. gie the smaller ones a fighting chance PLZ
[11:07] Alexxa Despres: I think that’s a relelvant point ;P
[11:07] Erinyse Planer: jack ask all the lindens whos office hours have been hijacked about it. the UI SUCKS
[11:07] Medhue Simoni: search jack, not v2
[11:07] Jayson Dorn: yeah Jack I’d like to know what’s going on in search too. I was great before the last fix but can’t find me anywhere now
[11:08] Jack Linden: So Sammy brings up search.. we’ve now had the latest update for a while.. some folks are finding it to be much improved from the feedback i’ve had
[11:08] kaiya Manbi: Question 2!!! whats the situation with SEARCH?
[11:08] Jack Linden: what do you guys think?
[11:08] xstorm Radek: what do mainland sim owners do with no support Jack ?
[11:08] Equinox Pinion: i think search improved for sure
[11:08] Jayson Dorn: yeah type in land for rent and see what you get Jack. Nothing but region listings for pages
[11:08] Medhue Simoni: It sucks worse that v2
[11:08] Bitsy Giano: I think I’ve been on the first page without using bots for year and half and got instantly dumped
[11:08] Jolee Baxton: I want to know how small companies are supposed to get business and grow when the search is based on traffic?
[11:08] Alexxa Despres: It’ s a list of regions…. and not only is that frustrating for land owners….but MORE importantly..for residents looking for land
[11:08] Zep Palen: I find the new search to be a big improvement…but there seems still to be bugs..
[11:08] Pamela Galli: A fashion store has been at the top of PREFAB search since the new search
[11:08] Equinox Pinion: still have bugs
[11:08] Jack Linden: xstorm, as i’ve said a few times, I’m not in the support group any more.. but that said, why are you not able to contact support?
[11:08] Bitsy Giano: I’ve let go one sim this week out of 4
[11:08] kaiya Manbi: so when one search for say “land for rent” the huge listing of regions, then listing of avatar names is the way its going to stay?
[11:08] Sammy Hermit: well i never show in search so its no good for me and surport tickets are just shut
[11:09] Bitsy Giano: and will continue if I can’t get searchable
[11:09] Lady Sakai: Improved for some (inclueding myself ) BUT .. Traffic still counts making it hard on the small people jack .. plz eliminate that one ??
[11:09] Alexxa Despres: It’s an improvement for store…gifts..hair… shapes..skins…. all GREAT
[11:09] Sonya Haight: I think its much improved, now I get to stay on the front page a few days before I’m dumped completely out of search for a week.
[11:09] Alexxa Despres: Land and Homes…
[11:09] Alexxa Despres: the PITS!
[11:09] Lady Sakai: I agree with Alexxa
[11:09] Jayson Dorn: I was always page one or two in search. in land for rent and now can’t even find me
[11:09] xstorm Radek: Ontyne Support told me a number of times they can not help mainland renters just Island owners
[11:09] Jack Linden: Bitsy.. have you followed the guidance on listing in search? in almost every case when folks can’t get themselves listed well it’s something related to their listing
[11:09] Bitsy Giano: correct jayson same here
[11:09] Bitsy Giano: and if people can’t find me no point in having the sims
[11:10] Sonya Haight: wouldn’t even mind sinking down a few pages, but it just throws me away not anywhere on 35 pages
[11:10] Jolee Baxton: I want to know how small companies are supposed to get business and grow when the search is based on traffic?
[11:10] Lady Sakai: Jack.. try typing any form of the word “Rental” … and see the list of 21 pages of regions pop up O.o
[11:10] Jack Linden: Alexxa, I agree.. Land is one of the areas we’re hitting soon
[11:10] Sammy Hermit: yes Jack i’m not speming or anythink
[11:10] Jolee Baxton: No,, it’s all regions listed
[11:10] Medhue Simoni: We all have Jack, we run businesses here, not hobby shops
[11:10] Alexxa Despres: TY Jack
[11:10] Sammy Hermit: spaming
[11:10] Sav Lanzet: Can you be more specific as to what ‘soon’ means??
[11:10] Liisa Runo: 2027
[11:10] kaiya Manbi: Jack, then why is it then that i can be found in search on the front page for two days then gone again for 10 days, then back in again for 2 days, this has been going on since may
[11:10] Bitsy Giano: thats just honest will only hang in there chasing my tail in circles so long
[11:11] Jayson Dorn: Jack I have managed to survive all the changes you guys have thrown at us as have many here but Land for rent is hosed as a search term or anything with rent in it
[11:11] Sonya Haight: Jack when we show up on page 1 for a few days then just disappear totally how can that be related to the way we have it listed?
[11:11] APinkSwan Beauchamp: So, is it safe to say you guys are still working on Search?
[11:11] Jolee Baxton: I spent 50USD 3 weeks straight for a classified AD and hardly got anyone
[11:11] Gregg Barrymore: lol sawnie
[11:11] Jack Linden: Sav, the team has a bunch of backlog items that they work on with an aim to release every 2 weeks currently (though we’d like to get to more frequently). So it’ll depend on how the work goes. I have no way to give you a fixed date because I’d most likely be wrong.
[11:11] Jack Linden: But it’s high on the list of items to get fixed asap
[11:12] Lady Sakai: Jack, what about RENTAL HOMES ?
[11:12] Zep Palen: Jolee…classifieds doesnt really have anything todo with the general search
[11:12] Alexxa Despres: K..so since the last search was rolled out… it has been 2 weeks… to the day
[11:12] Sonya Haight: you do know businesses are leaving Jack?
[11:12] Bitsy Giano: a lot of them
[11:12] Jack Linden: APinkSwan, I’m not sure you’re ever really ‘finished’ working on something like search.
[11:12] Lady Sakai: RENTAL HOMES is being badly neglegted by LL… is that on purpose ?
[11:12] Jack Linden: That’s why we have a standing team on it long term
[11:12] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Indeed, Jack!
[11:12] Bitsy Giano: and a lot of large ones downsizing
[11:12] Jolee Baxton: I know but I’ve always done it that way and now, no one…Ghost toen
[11:12] Medhue Simoni: I does not sound like you care if we stay or not jack
[11:12] Jolee Baxton: town*
[11:12] Medhue Simoni: Search should be the main issue, and focus
[11:12] Sammy Hermit: after this meeting i’ll be leaving too i can’t go on like this anymore
[11:13] Bitsy Giano: ok Jack my issue is when they don’t even acknowledge our tickets and we are hurting that bad
[11:13] Medhue Simoni: You broke it on us not fix it.
[11:13] Bitsy Giano: for weeks or months
[11:13] Jayson Dorn: Jack, your going to start seeing a lot of land owners out of business very shortly if this Land rental search doesn’t get fixed
[11:13] Jack Linden: Medhue, what makes you think I don’t care? We absolutely do. We’re fixing the issues just as rapidly as our resources allow
[11:13] Bitsy Giano: and finally after months throw a canned answer at you
[11:13] kaiya Manbi: anything to do with rent land lists regions, and being found in it, is random – what id like to know, is once its “fixed” is it still going to be just a listing of regions and avatar names?
[11:13] xstorm Radek: So Jack if you can no longer help mainland owner and mainland owners have no way to get there sim restarted when there is problems what will we do have to phone LL and find some one to yell at ?
[11:13] Medhue Simoni: How many months has this gone on jack
[11:13] Sonya Haight: are you even considering a different search engine altogether Jack?
[11:13] Bitsy Giano: it gets a hair frustrating
[11:13] Jack Linden: Jayson, understood. As I said, hence it being so high on the search backlog
[11:13] Rene Erlanger: Jack you said this was a prioirty….2 weeks on….and here we are talking about the same old problem. Keyword stemming does not help as it locks up toop ranking positions to less companies…..and “exact” land titel matches should get preference over “partial match” title name….then you’ll see moreeleavnt places appearing where they ought to
[11:13] Medhue Simoni: our businesses are dying
[11:14] Jolee Baxton: We pay a lot of money, this should be priority
[11:14] Gregg Barrymore: ::passes jack an asprin::
[11:14] Master Kane: lol
[11:14] Master Kane: jack and coke more like it
[11:14] Zep Palen: passes Jack earplugs
[11:14] Jack Linden: xstorm, again – that’s really a Q for support, but a ‘region down’ support ticket really will get looked at
[11:14] kaiya Manbi: since may Medhue – i remember the day search went bad, and my business started to plummet
[11:14] Sammy Hermit: there is no surport they just close tickets
[11:14] Bitsy Giano: how come mine don’t get answered?
[11:14] Sonya Haight: May 5th for me, the upgrade was on the 3rd
[11:14] Susan Tsuki: I think there’s a legitimate concern that flashy client improvements have put customer service and server enhancements in the back seat
[11:14] Jack Linden: Jolee.. agreed. And it is. Not sure how else I can say it.. the landlistings (and events) are super high priority. We’re going as fast as we can
[11:14] Medhue Simoni: Actually this started in april
[11:15] Master Kane: 24/7 support jack…. why has that gone to the birds?
[11:15] Jolee Baxton: Have any ideas how small business owners can be shown is search like before?
[11:15] Sonya Haight: Bitsy you region down ticket didnt’ get answered?
[11:15] Master Kane: where is our support that we pay for?
[11:15] Bitsy Giano: nope would have to look at when filed but at least a week ago
[11:15] Bitsy Giano: I called support they said if I filed a ticket it would get escalated
[11:15] Sonya Haight: no way I would go for that, you should be on the phone yelling at them
[11:15] Jolee Baxton: So, Hack..you are saying it will be fixed?
[11:15] Jolee Baxton: Jack*
[11:15] Jolee Baxton: sorry
[11:15] Bitsy Giano: never got anything other then the autmated your issue was received measage
[11:15] Gregg Barrymore: lol frudin slip
[11:16] kaiya Manbi: i have called support several times, and filed several tickets, it helps for two days, then it falls right out again
[11:16] Jack Linden: Susan, it’s rarely the same people on both, so it isn’t a tradeoff we’re making. Most of our resources go onto improvements and fixes, but sometimes we do also get new pieces out.
[11:16] xstorm Radek: so Jack what you are telling us that there is no one that can help any more and we have to put up with a Ontyne worker that has no clue what a sim is or lag is and they tell us not to bother them to file a Ticket ?
[11:16] Sonya Haight: ask for tier refund for the time you can’t use the sim too
[11:16] Medhue Simoni: How long to you think we can last Jack
[11:16] Master Kane: Agreed Sonya
[11:16] APinkSwan Beauchamp: I have heard that from many people as well, xstorm.
[11:16] Bitsy Giano: it just has no point
[11:16] Bitsy Giano: ok I can use the sim
[11:16] Bitsy Giano: if I can’t get search
[11:16] Sonya Haight: ahh
[11:16] Erinyse Planer: or better yet tell us and I quote davidt ontyne “Not our problem”
[11:17] Jack Linden: xstorm, I’m saying that’s not my department so I don’t have details for you about how things like mainland region restarts are being handled. But I do know that the region down tickets do result in action.
[11:17] Jolee Baxton: Jack, are you saying search will be fixed for small companies?
[11:17] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Support is not your department, but surely you knew it was going to be reduced?
[11:17] Master Kane: Jack.. not saying that YOU dont caare.. but anyone with half a brain knows.. taking support away like they have tells even a 10 yr old.. that they dont care
[11:17] Equinox Pinion: but what about live support closed for a few hours jack?
[11:18] Equinox Pinion: and you didnt annoucnce it
[11:18] kaiya Manbi: can we mabe just focus on the search for a few mins, then move on !!!
[11:18] Pamela Galli: Whose OH do we go to to discuss support?
[11:18] Zep Palen: LL ways to treat us at the moment is your biggest problems Jack….today I experienced a LL employee set a Jira issue to solved without even knowing what the issue was about…his comment for the status change showed that.
[11:18] Jack Linden: Jolee, search will be prioritised and worked on continually.. and yes, all areas of search need to be right
[11:18] xstorm Radek: ok then my next steps are to file Abuse Reports on the Ontyne Support team under the TOS rules
[11:18] Master Kane: no shit xstorm
[11:18] Sonya Haight: and the bugs? have they found those and are they working on fixes?
[11:18] Gregg Barrymore: pssst folks jack doesnt do the support tema lets move on to issues he does do
[11:18] xstorm Radek: thank you Jack
[11:18] Pamela Galli: Whose dept. is support?
[11:19] Jack Linden: Equinox.. I know, but again.. I’m not sure what the situation is around those changes. I don’t think they currently have an office hours
[11:19] Rene Erlanger: A) Keyword stemming does not help as it locks up top ranking positions to less companies, because by default they get similar rankings for other 2 keyword phrases…..so less visible keyword positions to different companies in any given Market sector…..and B) “Exact matches” Land title matches should get preference over “partial match” Land title name….then you’ll see more releavnt places appearing where they ought to be
[11:19] Jolee Baxton: Thanks Jack
[11:19] Susan Tsuki: Jack, from my position as a scripter I’ve just gone through *years* of the announced policy that LSL would be replaced by C# without any concern for backwwards compatability. During that time we’ve seen live help abolished, estate service slashed, and all of the focus seems to have been on this v2 client with dismal adoption rates. How can we reach LL management to ask for a renewed focus on the things your customers actually care about and depend upon?
[11:19] Bitsy Giano: and if you have information up somewhere on how to get searchable with search as it is… would be nice if someone sent a link because I asked support and they said there was nothing
[11:19] Equinox Pinion: who can we cantact about it jack
[11:19] Master Kane: they come to my sim one more time.. I will cal and then express my feelings about unwanted NON Linden people on my sim and then cancel all my stuff!
[11:19] Lady Sakai: Susan, sendt an email to Philip Linden and let him know about it
[11:19] Liisa Runo: yes, i also want to know whos the support guy now? cause my support tickets are growing moss already
[11:20] kaiya Manbi: jack, can u give any kind of indication when u think search can be back to normal, im sure i speak for a few of us, but not many can survive if this goes on much longer!
[11:20] Jolee Baxton: Yes please
[11:20] xstorm Radek: seems no point coming to this meeting any more
[11:20] xstorm Radek: bye
[11:20] Jack Linden: Susan, I think that’s good feedback and I don’t disagree with the fact that it can feel hard to be heard. I would keep pushing that feedback to us in forums and places like office hours.. we do take it all in even if it feels that it doesn’t get heard
[11:20] Uni Ninetails: vya Xstorm
[11:20] Uni Ninetails: cya
[11:20] Master Kane: Jack -> Do you have any information on the script limits as to when we will start seeing them taking effect? Also, is there a WIKI on it some where that we can read about it and what to expect it to do to those entering a sim/region when they have to many scripts on? Thanks
[11:21] Master Kane: i didnt see an answer
[11:21] Gregg Barrymore: good question mk
[11:21] Lady Sakai: crap Im gonna crash in a few secs *sighs*
[11:21] Uni Ninetails: Aye script limits info please.
[11:21] Opensource Obscure: Master Kane: you can find info about that in the wiki – look for Babbage Linden meetings transcripts.
[11:21] Equinox Pinion: would love to knowthat too master
[11:21] Jolee Baxton: Holds on to Lady
[11:21] Ann Otoole: Sea Linden marked a major defect fix pending last night and the commets on the blog were turned off today with a note stating an announcement is pending in a few days
[11:21] Qie Niangao: Babbage and now Kelly
[11:21] Master Kane: thats hearsay.. not fact
[11:21] Ann Otoole: so i guess they are about to roll a fix.
[11:21] Erinyse Planer: jack what do we do when an entire department refuses REFUSES to hodl their advertise office hours?
[11:21] Lady Sakai: lol tx Jolee .. but Im affriad that wont help 
(
[11:22] Sonya Haight: thanks Ann I missed it
[11:22] Jack Linden: kaiya, it’s tough to quantify what normal is, but I think that our velocity on search improvements is much higher now than it was 3 months ago. So those big issues are being worked on and resolved one by one
[11:22] Medhue Simoni: Jack we trusted LL enough to start business, you can’t just screw with search and say will get to it. The trust is basically lost now.
[11:22] Master Kane: on script kimits ann?
[11:22] Jolee Baxton: Darn…Hold on tighter.
[11:22] Master Kane: limits even
[11:22] Opensource Obscure: what’s hearsay?
[11:22] Ann Otoole: Sea Linden works on search
[11:22] Master Kane: oh ok
[11:22] Pamela Galli: Top result for PREFAB search: STATE OF FASHION – DIONE Fashions- Men’s & Ladies
[11:22] Rene Erlanger: ought to be fired
[11:22] Jolee Baxton: What about when you go to “All” and it shows only parcels.
[11:22] Lady Sakai: Jack fix the GD seach … I cant handle al these people .. plzzz with something nakid on top ???
[11:22] Jolee Baxton: regions
[11:22] Liisa Runo: (script limits are on ice with C#. see babbage/kelly logs for more info)
[11:22] Medhue Simoni: We need office hours just for search and nothing else
[11:23] Gregg Barrymore whispers: lol day
[11:23] Sonya Haight: not Bobo’s sex yard Pamela?
[11:23] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Now there is an idea, Med!
[11:23] Jack Linden: I don’t have a script limits update. Following the company changes we’re still tying down where projects live in terms of priorities. With script limits, there are compelling reasons why we want to do it, but there may be higher priority fixes that come ahead. But we’re still figuring that out.
[11:23] Jolee Baxton: wb
[11:23] Erinyse Planer: Wel also need the UI people to show up for thier office hours. its been 7 weeks now
[11:23] Lady Sakai: I asked that two weeks back Medhue .. so I completely agree !!!
[11:23] Opensource Obscure: this office hour is astonishing
[11:23] kaiya Manbi: Jack, this is what scares me, when i hear that the way search is now, is seen as an Improvement — im talking land rental stuff — a listing of regions and avatar names is not an improvement — and falling in and out of search is extremely damaging
[11:23] Master Kane: oh ffs
[11:23] Jack Linden: To Liisa’s comment, yeah.. those projects are in flux alittle now while we work it out
[11:23] Opensource Obscure: thanks Jack! by everybody
[11:24] Uni Ninetails: byyee!
[11:24] Sonya Haight: suppose Meshes too are on hold?
[11:24] Qie Niangao: (actually, Liisa, I think that’s misleading. Script limits are not shelved yet, but C# is pretty officially back-burnered)
[11:24] Jolee Baxton: I’m out of search, too..unless I pay 50USD for a classified, then no profit.
[11:24] Master Kane: no… sonya.. that will BRING people in sl… LOL
[11:24] Gregg Barrymore: 50 usd a wekk?
[11:24] Sonya Haight: no Jolee, that would be throwing money away, unless it puts you on the front page and that would take a lot more than $50 usd
[11:24] Jolee Baxton: I’m not upset with you, Jack.. It just seems this should be fixed asap.
[11:25] Equinox Pinion: did you try to change your settings on the parcels jolee
[11:25] Bitsy Giano: yes I’ve been forced to put up 20000 L a week classifieds or not be seen
[11:25] Ann Otoole: some searches produce rather perfect results so the GSA in of itself works fine as long as there is no external influences injected in and/or it is not a word so saturated in SL half of SL wants in the results.
[11:25] Jolee Baxton: That’s the only way I can get customers
[11:25] Vryl Valkyrie shouts: Jack, can you please explain why Grant Linden told me he is the product owner of the market place? There has been nothing official posted so I am curious what a product owner is since I assumed that Linden Lab owned XST. Thanks.
[11:25] Sonya Haight: my 50L one has been the one they occassionally thorw on the front page for a few days, like a teaser
[11:25] Jack Linden: Sonya, we’re looking at the mesh project and making plans – we’ll be communicating more when we’re clearer on what is happening there.
[11:25] Bitsy Giano: and then of course no guarantee if sl goes down they will make good on the time I paid for
[11:25] Jolee Baxton: Then it’s very limited
[11:25] Bitsy Giano: it did back a couple months ago for 1 day
[11:25] Bitsy Giano: 40k ad up
[11:25] Jack Linden: Mesh is very exciting as a proposition but again we have to weigh it against pain points and bugs.
[11:25] kaiya Manbi is very upset – in 4 years, ups and downs are fine, but this is the worst its ever been
[11:25] Bitsy Giano: burned
[11:26] Master Kane: weigh it against script limits jack
[11:26] APinkSwan Beauchamp agrees with MK
[11:26] Master Kane: we all KNOW that script limits WILL help everyone.. aposed to meshes
[11:26] Sonya Haight: aww ok, thanks
[11:26] Erinyse Planer: JAck: who do we talk to to get the UI team to show up for their advertised office hour, so that the porblems with the ui that hurt business owners, residents, builders, and even lindens can finally get addressed?
[11:26] Jolee Baxton: Some people are disabled and this is all they have.
[11:26] Sonya Haight: thats true Kaiya
[11:26] Pamela Galli: Can we get the JIRAs attended to before we do anything new??
[11:26] Rene Erlanger: jack…pass this onto Sea Linden —>A) Keyword stemming does not help as it locks up top ranking positions to less companies, because by default they get similar rankings for other 2 keyword phrases…..so less visible keyword positions to different companies in any given Market sector…..and B) “Exact matches” Land title matches should get preference over “partial match” Land title name….then you’ll see more releavnt places appearing where they ought to be C) maybe “Any category” ought ot be killed off and just have individual tabs for searchs – Places-People-Classifieds- Wiki- Groups- Land Sales -
[11:27] Jack Linden: Vryl, we have a team of people that work on both xstreet and the new Marketplace, and Grant is helping us with the development around Marketplace.
[11:27] Master Kane: OUCH!
[11:27] Talarus Luan: Careful, JIRA is also the place for suggesting anything new.
[11:27] Sammy Hermit looks for a tree to hang from
[11:27] Jack Linden: Rene, wil copypaste. thanks
[11:27] Zep Palen: Jack..i have an IMPORTANT question. How many questions in these office hours do you actually see?
[11:27] Punchie Gumbo: great idea Rene
[11:28] Master Kane: waits for it…..
[11:28] kaiya Manbi: Copy past this jack – PLEASE FIX SEARCH
[11:28] Master Kane:
[11:28] Pamela Galli: k, can “we” fix what is broken before introducing new (potentially broken) things?
[11:28] Gregg Barrymore: jack any consideration to levleing or even reducing the tier fees since the world economies are trashed and folks are leaving in droves as they cant afford lots anymore and this combined with the speacial teir deals majopr investors get maiing it harder than heck for us other land owners and rp communities to even break even????
[11:28] Erinyse Planer: yeah, like fix the 2.1 UI please?
[11:28] Jack Linden: Zep, as many as I can. I do miss some, it’s tough to type and keep up with the flow
[11:28] Jolee Baxton: If you can just give your word that search will be fixed properly for everyone, small companies included, that would help.
[11:28] Sonya Haight: when will the new pricing be announced Jack?
[11:28] Uni Ninetails: the hell with the 2.1 ui fix mono bug region freeze death
[11:28] kaiya Manbi: Jolee, yes, thats all i want to hear
[11:28] Jolee Baxton: I bet it is hard to answer everyone.
[11:29] Jack Linden: Gregg, I’m afraid we’ve no changes to announce around fees.
[11:29] Ann Otoole: i requested in jira a shopping domain for SL off secondlife.com. LL made marketplace.secondlife.com. I can convince myself it was because of my jira. but i know it just happened that way so i closed resolved fixed
[11:29] Medhue Simoni: Jack, parcel names and parcel description seem to have the same relevance as everything else it in search. Those should have much higher relevancies.
[11:29] kaiya Manbi: and fixed before new things come in and as a top priority
[11:29] Zep Palen: Jack..i have an eye disease which makes it impossible to follow the chat to see if anything I ask get answered…would it be too much to ask that you made some structure on the meetings when we do the honor to show up?
[11:29] Qie Niangao: (heh: especially tough to type and watch the flow in Viewer 2, since the goddamn chat history window goes transparent.)
[11:29] Sammy Hermit: i’m still no better off tha at the start still have no idel when my land will show in search
[11:29] Jack Linden: Jolee, absolutely. Search is crucial and we’re totally committed to fixing it for everyone
[11:29] Gregg Barrymore: :: sigh im being forced out of SL::
[11:29] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Jack, Delby was going to be here one of these times to discuss the bulk buying and answer our questions regarding that deal with reduced tier?
[11:29] Jolee Baxton: Thank you.
[11:29] Sonya Haight: Uni I think the mono bug is like the search bugs, impossible or they just dont’ know how to fix them.
[11:30] Talarus Luan: Zep -> turn on your chat to disk and review it later.
[11:30] Medhue Simoni: Me too Gregg
[11:30] Jack Linden: Medhue, yes.. as i said, land listings etc are part of the list of work the search team are engaged on
[11:30] Zep Palen: Talarus..not optional since I would like to reply to some of his answers
[11:30] Uni Ninetails: Sonya: we got reasons, just no action now. spose the lay offs + restructures buggered it up more.
[11:30] Talarus Luan: There’s always next meeting.
[11:30] Sonya Haight: I think so
[11:30] Erinyse Planer: Im sick of trying to menor new users that get 2.0 or 2.1 and then cant find anything, and then wind up goingand getting the 1.4 viewer. its kinda rediculous people cant even find the FILE menu
[11:30] Sonya Haight: feels like it buggered up a lot
[11:31] Qie Niangao: (Talarus: or tail -f )
[11:31] Master Kane: hell.. i am one of the low men on the totem pole and I am even thinking about leaving .. 1) No 24/7 support no more 2) Leck of interest for peoples ideas on v2 3) important bugs older than 3 yrs old being put on hold for some lindens/programmers “BABY”
[11:31] Gregg Barrymore: very well then im done here gues si best go prepare my lands on the os grid for moving in ::sigh::
[11:31] Erinyse Planer: i hear that gregg
[11:31] Jack Linden: APinkSwan, yeah.. we know we need to talk about that – when we have solid information to present to you we will. Meantime, you should absolutely contact us if you want to bulk purchase and need some gudance
[11:31] Sonya Haight: the babies have been put on hold MK, least it sounds like it
[11:31] Jack Linden: *guidance
[11:32] Master Kane: no yet sonya
[11:32] Erinyse Planer: sonay you havent been to enough of the other office hours then
[11:32] Sonya Haight: will we a blog post on pricing this month Jack?
[11:32] Erinyse Planer: cause they arent
[11:32] Master Kane: meshes are going through… script limits arent
[11:32] Susan Tsuki: I think the volunteer corps should be re-instated. They and the NCI were happy to do first-level support and make official LL support earlier in return for a group tag to brag about. I can’t believe that free labor was jettisoned
[11:32] Uni Ninetails: on the shelf. like region windlight. which is like being teased by some eprvert with a lollypop. its done its passed QA but you cant have it.
[11:32] APinkSwan Beauchamp: I don’t really want guidance, per se, but rather how a deal such as that helped any of the smaller land owners….:)
[11:32] Sonya Haight: they’re still going Erinyse?
[11:32] Pamela Galli: No more babies til you can support the ones you already have
[11:32] Bitsy Giano: Jack basically my purpose is not to particpate in a bitch fest but stress how dire the situaltion is, I’ve known a number of builders shut down in the last week who have been here for years, years before I even joined, this doesn’t benefit us or Linden Labs
[11:32] Jack Linden: Sonya, not sure exactly when that will land. We know it’s overdue though.
[11:32] Sonya Haight: he said Meshes are on hold too
[11:32] Rene Erlanger: Jack ….given the state of the SL econony and the reducing concurrencies….would LL ever entertain revisiting their Land & SIM prciing structure? What would set off alram bells to the Lab?
[11:32] Equinox Pinion: and who can we cantact if we want build purchases?
[11:32] Talarus Luan: Uni-> (((
[11:32] Susan Tsuki: make offical LL support easier* (and earlier, too, I suppose, because of their gate-keeping effect)
[11:32] Equinox Pinion: buil even
[11:32] Equinox Pinion: bulk geez
[11:32] Jack Linden: Bitsy, understood. We see it too
[11:32] Master Kane: I may be joining you sooner that I mentioned earlier gregg.. by the looks of all this
[11:33] Erinyse Planer: Jack, im asking again, who do we contact to get the UI team to SHOW UP at their office hour?
[11:33] Uni Ninetails: sory Tal im just jaded. all fun stuff i want needs on the shelf fix the basics. fix friggin mono. and everything else people are crying out for.
[11:33] Gregg Barrymore: aye mk appaerntly Ll cant see the forrest is loosing all its trees cause of lack of rain
[11:33] Talarus Luan: Oh, I understand. That’s a “feature” I want as well. :-/
[11:34] Jack Linden: Rene, it’s not about alarm bells as such. Pricing is obviously complex as it underpins just about everything. So changing pricing is not trivial for us. We’re always reviewing it, and always looking at ways we can improve things.
[11:34] Talarus Luan: So I empathize.
[11:34] Master Kane: or they are pulling the wrong leaves off and causeni it to die
[11:34] Uni Ninetails nods to Tal “jack himself there said its done. its torture.
[11:34] Qie Niangao: Jack, there is too much confusion here about what’s on-hold and what’s shelved and what’s cancelled and what’s being prioritized… we *really* need a clear expression of what the plans are, and *soon*
[11:34] Uni Ninetails: Agreed
[11:34] Jack Linden: Erinyse, I’ll ask the team about office hours. I’m not sure what their plans are there
[11:34] Uni Ninetails: Tell that to phil
[11:34] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Excellent, Qie.
[11:34] Bitsy Giano: then please, stess to them improvements don’t have these results, roll it back
[11:35] Erinyse Planer: well 7 weeks of having them posted and 20+ avatars there to talk to them and the team REFUSING to show up is getting old JAck
[11:35] Sonya Haight: I agree with Bitsy, 3 months is a bit too long to play with us
[11:35] Talarus Luan: They do in the LL dictionary, just like [RESOLVED]
[11:35] Erinyse Planer: realy really really old
[11:35] Jack Linden: Qie, agreed. We need to have that roadmap nailed ourselves though, before we fall into the trap of giving dates and deliverables out.
[11:35] Bitsy Giano: People need to regain faith in stability of the system, even if they do find us they won’t spend right now
[11:35] Medhue Simoni: Well, jack, soon we’ll not afford them, so you will be force to adjust the prices.
[11:35] Jolee Baxton: I appreciate the announcement when logging in about renting land from other residents but it’s done well, could we have something a bit better?
[11:35] Lady Sakai: Medhue, we cant afford them now
[11:35] Talarus Luan: I don’t want dates, per se, I just wanna know what I can expect and plan for long-term.
[11:35] Jolee Baxton: not done well*
[11:36] Bitsy Giano: and I’m not saying all of that is in your hands, or that LL has not tried to make some efforts to repair damage done
[11:36] Uni Ninetails: Jack. we want facts dont need dates.
[11:36] Jayson Dorn: Jack it seems clear to me that as LL can’t offer compensation, reduce the tiers or any other such thing. I’ve been in business a long time and you don’t let go a third of the staff and cut all but esential services if you aren’t in a cash crunch..if the land owner businesses all start crashing the ripple affect is going to be dramatic
[11:36] Bitsy Giano: I’ve seen it they have
[11:36] Jack Linden: Jolee, have you seen much impact from the MOTD?
[11:36] Susan Tsuki: if there was as much work on the server code as there has been on the client, virtualization could swap out the vast majority of idle regions when nobody is in them… that could have huge pricing implications, not to mention energy efficiency
[11:36] Jolee Baxton: No
[11:36] Master Kane: Personally… I think our tiers should be lowered due to the fact that we do NOT (****NOT***) hve 24/7 support now… put that in the suggestion box < JACK
[11:36] Talarus Luan: Even just a “near-, medium-, long-term” classification is good enough for me.
[11:36] Bitsy Giano: we don’t have 24/7 support?
[11:36] Master Kane: no
[11:36] Medhue Simoni: the Motd did seem like a nice gesture, I don’t sell land tho, lol
[11:36] Jack Linden: Master, I’ll pass that feedback on.
[11:36] Master Kane: rad the website
[11:37] Master Kane: read even
[11:37] Talarus Luan: I don’t think there is such a think as an “idle region”.
[11:37] Erinyse Planer: hell, we dont even have support now. if you talk to an Ontyne all they say is “File a support ticket” or “Not my problem”
[11:37] Talarus Luan: *thing
[11:37] Bitsy Giano: I guess I hate reading those boards
[11:37] Sassy Romano: Define “idle” Susan, what about vendor servers for example, other objects etc that need to be live
[11:37] Jack Linden: regions with no avatars still often have scripted systems that need to be running.
[11:37] Bitsy Giano: to much like a bitch fest, I see little productive on them
[11:37] kaiya Manbi: Its all great that it advertises renting land from residents, but whats the use if half of us can no longer be found in search
[11:37] Master Kane: not forums bisty hun… the HELP page on the right
[11:37] Jack Linden: we have looked at virtualisation, and continue to do so.. but there are a lot of challenges there
[11:37] Sonya Haight: live chat hours are from 8 to midnight M-F and 8 to 8 on weekends now Bitsy
[11:37] Erinyse Planer: I even told an Ontyne WORD FOR WORD what I was told to by Soft Linden, and the jerk told me, We can’t do that.
[11:38] Bitsy Giano: can’t call concierge after hours?
[11:38] Lady Sakai: Jack, I have rental homes and stores to help support a non-profit comunity region … we dont have any way cept seach to advertise …. We are now inches away from shutting down …. PLZ will you consider some help for the HOME rentals in SL
[11:38] Sonya Haight: and then you will probably get an Ontyne
[11:38] Zep Palen: jack regions with zero avatars goes idle as it is now right?
[11:38] Uni Ninetails: Poor Phils got his work cut out.
[11:38] Master Kane: oh.. one more things… with “Support” I am NOT talking ontymes or what ever either
[11:38] Sonya Haight: no Bitsy, you get a recording about the hours
[11:38] Master Kane: they dont know shit
[11:38] Jack Linden: Zep, no. they continue to run
[11:38] Alexxa Despres: tell us how you really feel MK ))
[11:38] Master Kane: i said my peace…waiting
[11:38] Qie Niangao: (it would take a lot of dev work, but yeah: could shift low-load sims to more per core until there was demand.)
[11:38] Jack Linden: Lady, send me details on the situation.
[11:38] Susan Tsuki: true, but there are opportunities to virtualize regions in proportion to the amount of CPU they are actually using. It’s a classic timesharing problem and I hope it gets worked on
[11:38] Master Kane: oh.. you really wan tto know?
[11:38] Lady Sakai: ok….tx jack
[11:38] Alexxa Despres: I was kidding
[11:38] Equinox Pinion: they cannot do that zep…the region still could have verdor servers on it which have to run
[11:38] Master Kane:
[11:38] Zep Palen: Jack since when are empty regions still running?
[11:39] Master Kane: Ill save that for my blog… Iwhich i need to tend to…
[11:39] Jack Linden: Susan, yeah I’m certainly not saying there aren’t ways to do stuff there.
[11:39] Susan Tsuki: they’re right, Zep, scripts need to run, but the 1:4 constant mapping of regions to CPUs needs to be mutable
[11:39] Jack Linden: Zep, regions don’t stop when you leave them
[11:39] Jolee Baxton: Do you have any suggestions on how we can up our traffic in the meantime?
[11:39] Gregg Barrymore: this kinda reminds me of the commercial where the guys asks why the other business is getting all their former customers
[11:40] Talarus Luan: It’s a bit more complex than simply installing some virtualization software layer and letting it rip
[11:40] Master Kane: lol gregg
[11:40] Zep Palen: Thats why I ask when that changed
[11:40] Zep Palen: back in 2007 – 2008 I experienced many tiems sims went idle…and I was not the only one
[11:40] Jack Linden: Zep, it’s always been this way. regions run regardless of people being on them
[11:40] Susan Tsuki: true, but I’m just saying that even a small amount of progress in decoupling regions from physical CPUs could have huge pricing and efficiency implications
[11:40] Zep Palen: ok..then it have just not always been working right ?
[11:41] Khamon Fate: Sims already operate much like virtual machines. What Qie said about packing idle ones more per core is probably the best route.
[11:41] Gregg Barrymore: once we are gone we wont be coming back and the root of sl’s varity and creativness that made it what it is will be lost forever
[11:41] Erinyse Planer: zep when has ANYTHING in sl worked right?
[11:41] Talarus Luan: It does, but considering the resources at LL right now, that’s probably a permanent “pony list” item.
[11:41] Pamela Galli: So, then, will there ever be Commerce OH again?
[11:41] Jolee Baxton: Jack, do you have any suggestions on how we can up our traffic while we wait for search to be fixed?
[11:41] Talarus Luan: It would require a total rewrite of the underlying infrastructure to support.
[11:41] Erinyse Planer: Pamela: of course, the next time they have another bad idea to shove down our throats
[11:42] Master Kane: which is when.. tomorrow??
[11:42] Uni Ninetails: V2.2 with smellovision!
[11:42] Gregg Barrymore: aol made the same mistakes and look at them now
[11:42] Susan Tsuki: “load balancing” is probably a better term than “virtualization” since the latter implies swapping things all the way out, I suppose. Sorry.
[11:42] Sonya Haight: I thought thats when they hid Erinyse?
[11:42] Pamela Galli: In the middle of some big new Marketplace migration and we are so clueless we are just sitting there wondering what we need to do.
[11:42] Jack Linden: Pamela, I’m not sure. The team are heads down to get Marketplace smooth.. maybe we’ll start looking at office hours once we’re past the crunch
[11:42] Pamela Galli: ty
[11:42] Pamela Galli: but the crunch is what we need info on
[11:42] Master Kane: heads down… you heard it… they are sleeping again
[11:43] Talarus Luan: Coding in their sleep?
[11:43] Jack Linden: Master, man.. ouch.
[11:43] Master Kane: scary huh
[11:43] Khamon Fate: Y’all need to forget Search viability and find other ways to promote your operations.
[11:43] Master Kane: JK Jack
[11:43] Erinyse Planer: they should scrap marketplace. its all around horibly designed, horribly priced, and set up so only those like anshe can actually get any sort of exposure
[11:43] Medhue Simoni: made me laugh
[11:43] Sonya Haight: a little more info would be nice there, so we know what we need to do and when to do it, after all with no search marketplace may be all we have left after we return our empty sims.
[11:43] Pamela Galli: amen Khamon
[11:43] Master Kane: playing is all… HEY.. they have to sleep too ya know!
[11:43] Bitsy Giano: basically if that goes live, thats my only form of income left…
[11:43] Khamon Fate: ha ha ha I can’t figure out where to get a box for the new Marketplace.
[11:43] Erinyse Planer: oh wait, thats right LL designed marketplace around anshe
[11:43] Jack Linden: Sonya, I’ll talk to the team about more info for merchants that are not in the beta
[11:43] Bitsy Giano: I’ll likely be forced into closing
[11:44] Sonya Haight: thanks
[11:44] Erinyse Planer: when xstreet closes, im NOT moving to marketplace
[11:44] Talarus Luan: yeah, we should all have learned by now that the thing that defines success in SL is working around the roadblocks, idiosynchrasies, and limitations that LL throws in front of us. <.<
[11:44] Bitsy Giano: well that beta was supposed to feed all our stuff in and be realistic I thought?
[11:44] Jolee Baxton: Jack, do you think Marketplace will be fixed to advertise before search is?
[11:44] Gregg Barrymore: ahh yes after many of us leave to the os sims this will be called anshe land
[11:44] Sassy Romano: Jack, they may be heads down with “Marketplace” but they’re forgetting the reason marketplace exists. Without a successful migration that includes the stakeholders interests (that’s us), then they are not executing the project properly! Engage with the major stakeholders please, we need to plan too.
[11:44] Erinyse Planer: im not giving LL more money to be used to promote Anshe and her little group of elite bitches
[11:44] Medhue Simoni: Bitsy, sad thing is that is has nothing to do with us or our products.
[11:44] Bitsy Giano: the home page ads being gone with nothing but that scrolll list render advertising there useless
[11:44] Khamon Fate: The thing that defines success in SL is appealing to the newbies. We only need LL marketing to concentrate on bringing in the newbies.
[11:44] Medhue Simoni: That we can fix.
[11:45] Uni Ninetails: jolee: it shows you how much work you gonna have to do *shudders at the thought XD
[11:45] Master Kane: isnt it already, gregg….
[11:45] Bitsy Giano: no one will scroll through a list of 1000s to find you
[11:45] Susan Tsuki: Khamon, I’m hopping that search will get the attention it deserves, because the “other ways to promote” often end up being disturbing, i.e., advert prims on every for sale parcel and legions of traffic bots distorting rl user representation on the maps
[11:45] Alexxa Despres: I agree Khamon!
[11:45] Jack Linden: Jolee, we are looking to get the advertising piece fully up to speed soon. Marketplace actually uses a different search than the main inworld one
[11:45] Alexxa Despres: and getting them to STICK!
[11:45] Bitsy Giano: I won’t anyway when shopping
[11:45] Erinyse Planer: and im not gonna pay a fee to give people free stuff
[11:45] Zep Palen: The marketplace is worthless since LL have decided that some missing functions are “expected behavior”…and those are some REALLY important once in fact
[11:45] APinkSwan Beauchamp: As I asked a few weeks ago about where V2 fit in on the list of viewers, I am hoping you will have that info again in a few weeks with the rollout of the latest, Jack. Just a head’s up, as that information can also be very telling and important.
[11:45] Bitsy Giano: lol I don’t give people free stuff!!!
[11:45] Master Kane: i mean… even jack knows.. if he searches for anshe… what pops up… NOTHING BUT anshe
[11:45] Master Kane: )
[11:45] Erinyse Planer: I do bitsy. Demos and stuff
[11:46] Erinyse Planer: i wont make someoen pay for a demo
[11:46] Master Kane: yah thats just stupid
[11:46] Erinyse Planer: and its REDICULOUS that merchants have to
[11:46] Bitsy Giano: no I don’t do demos I just give a link to my lot to view builds in person
[11:46] Jolee Baxton: Jack, just wondering your take on if Marketplace is more imprtant than search
[11:46] Jolee Baxton: important*
[11:46] Erinyse Planer: but hair, cloathing, skin, and accessory peope have to have demos bitsy
[11:47] Pamela Galli: Marketplace IS the main search for many if not most
[11:47] Bitsy Giano: true
[11:47] Medhue Simoni: That is the crazy part Jack, both our revenue streams are in flux
[11:47] Bitsy Giano: I guess I’m sorta shop in person for some stuff
[11:47] Medhue Simoni: Do you really need to do both at the same time?
[11:47] Bitsy Giano: depends what it is
[11:47] Pamela Galli: I would never use inworld search
[11:47] Susan Tsuki: the attempt to monopolize external marketplaces was a disaster; all of that effort would have been better served by building such functions into internal search where LL already has a monopoly
[11:47] Pamela Galli: I want a pic of the thing
[11:47] Master Kane: hi sera
[11:47] Pamela Galli: then go see it
[11:47] Jack Linden: Jolee, the two are separate teams and skill sets so it’s not an either/or deal. Search is obvious critical to finding stuff – a good Marketplace is vital for merchants and shoppers who want to buy/sell on the web
[11:47] Uni Ninetails: “see item in secondlife” ill never buy id off xstreet unless nessesary. i like to give the creator all the $$
[11:47] Erinyse Planer: and it if you have say 200 items thats $50 usd a month. for the priveldge of handing out demos
[11:48] Jolee Baxton: Sigh
[11:48] Master Kane: excaatly uni
[11:48] Pamela Galli: I put a note saying that since delivery is so unreliable, buy it inworld
[11:48] Sassy Romano: the marketplace will not be “good” if the merchants aren’t part of it, major part of any project plan, engage with the major stakeholders… US
[11:48] Zep Palen: Jack it is not a good marketplace for merchants if you make it harder for us to use it
[11:48] APinkSwan Beauchamp agrees with Uni
[11:48] Pamela Galli: but they find it on Xstreet
[11:48] Sonya Haight: I agree with Uni too
[11:48] Khamon Fate: That’s not entirely true Jack. Many people use the marketplace search to find products that they then buy inworld.
[11:48] Uni Ninetails: dont wanna pay for a demo on xstree? place a simple comment “Demo available in world”
[11:48] Khamon Fate: Inworld search is already depreciated to that extent
[11:49] Jack Linden: Zep, as it’s a beta, we’re steadily improving all aspects of it. Ultimately it *will* be a huge improvement over xstreet
[11:49] Gregg Barrymore: ::lol slex worked fine and was very succesful:: why spend money fixing something that wasnt broke?
[11:49] Master Kane: doesnt slx still take a % of your sales? or did they scrap that when LL took it over
[11:49] Jack Linden: Khamon, true.. that’s another use case
[11:49] Uni Ninetails: still take a bite
[11:49] Khamon Fate: Many merchants have resorted to advertising on popular blogs, posting pictures to SL Universe, and such to advertise rather than using the inworld serach mechanism.
[11:49] Sassy Romano: Wait Jack, how is it being improved, NOBODY is telling us anything, this is my point, engage engage please
[11:49] Master Kane: what i thought
[11:49] Bitsy Giano: we can hope but I emplore you don’t take our forms of marketing on there that are good on xstreet away
[11:49] Erinyse Planer: marketplace and the 2.1 viewer were two very stupid projects that were shoved on the residents and merchants and we were told, everyone loves them. well reality is we dont
[11:49] Master Kane: point made
[11:49] Zep Palen: Jack..not true…i have mentioned why several times today…but you havent seen it yet because you dont see all questions/statements
[11:49] Bitsy Giano: home page ads are HIGHLY effective
[11:50] Jolee Baxton: I’m trying to figure out how difficult it is to put land on xstreet.
[11:50] Khamon Fate: Search itself is becoming a non-use case. Y’all may never recover that from a marketing perspective.
[11:50] Khamon Fate: It’ll of course always work for groups and profiles at least.
[11:50] Erinyse Planer: and now that osgrid and citygrid and citylife are ALL transitioing from beta to live…. LL is gonna die if it keeps burrying its head in the sand
[11:50] Jolee Baxton: I know this must be overwhelming for you, Jack and again, I’m not upset with you personally.
[11:50] Khamon Fate: But you don’t do Search do you? Why are we talking about that here?
[11:50] Uni Ninetails: ill state this fact. i NEVER use search not for over a year.
[11:51] Master Kane: maybe LL will sale all the SANDY sim soon
[11:51] Qie Niangao: Oh, that reminds me: Ciaran claims (http://www.your2ndplace.com/node/1820) that the Mature Content checkbox doesn’t mean anything anymore. Is this true? and if so, why aren’t people screaming?
[11:51] Erinyse Planer: and citylife is already close to what LL can offer, and its cheaper, more stable, and more user friendly
[11:51] Jack Linden: oh it’s fine jolee.. I want to keep listening and answering what i can.
[11:51] kaiya Manbi: but newbies do uni
[11:51] Susan Tsuki: Pam, that’s because xstreet has a direct incentive to do the best search, while I suspect inside LL search is more of an afterthought. The problem is that the most obvious goal to LL is commerce in general, which is so easy to see as more important than the customer satisfaction which drives it
[11:51] Sammy Hermit: Jack’s a brit we can take it lol
[11:51] Bitsy Giano: ultimately there isn’t words that make it right, making it work again will
[11:51] Uni Ninetails: fair point
[11:51] Jolee Baxton: lol..
[11:51] Jack Linden: hehe Sammy
[11:51] Medhue Simoni: Yes Qie, that is also my observation
[11:52] Qie Niangao: that should make Mature land pretty unattractive for businesses, no?
[11:52] Sonya Haight: Khamon he is over search
[11:52] Gregg Barrymore: ::jack a bit of advise get the ol resume out as many os grids are getting ready to impliment physics and well SL and its pricing will go the way of other blind dinosuars like aol and there.com::
[11:52] Pamela Galli: Kill search if you must, but please don’t kill Xstreet functionality too
[11:52] Jolee Baxton: Jayson, you look like Jack’s bodyguard.
[11:52] Medhue Simoni: Yep, i ask to change my land to G, but support said NO
[11:52] Jolee Baxton: Just saying
[11:53] Sonya Haight: hehe I thought that when Jack first showed up Jolee
[11:53] Khamon Fate: There’s plenty of cheap G land for sale Medhue.
[11:53] Talarus Luan: Getting ready to implement physics? O.o That’s kinda like a fundamental prerequisiste.
[11:53] Erinyse Planer: Gregg some already have
[11:53] kaiya Manbi: me too ?
[11:53] Alexxa Despres: SUPER SIM!!!!!! Sorry… just had the urge to say it, Jack
[11:53] Jolee Baxton: LOL..Sonya
[11:53] Equinox Pinion: lol alexxa
[11:53] Alexxa Despres:
[11:53] Uni Ninetails: no comments on bulk homestead tiers? *ducks
[11:53] Medhue Simoni: I also notice that no G lands were being dropped from search
[11:53] Gregg Barrymore: ageeed erin but some are going to more adanced that will rival SL
[11:53] Jack Linden: hehe Alexxa, where’s Drift when you need him?
[11:54] Sonya Haight: yeah need that Supersim answer for Driftwood
[11:54] Erinyse Planer: citylife is finallizing its version of xstreetsl. when its doen they go live
[11:54] Master Kane props head up with left hand on desk
[11:54] Alexxa Despres:
[11:54] Khamon Fate: gee whiz Uni, it was all going so well.
[11:54] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Asked, Uni, but not really answered this time around…:)
[11:54] Jack Linden: one day i’m going to surprise drift with a spec.
[11:54] Uni Ninetails: ah okies
[11:54] kaiya Manbi: whats G land?
[11:54] Talarus Luan: So, Jack, how about those Microparcels? I keep waiting for Luke Linden to step out of the shadows any minute.
[11:54] Gregg Barrymore: the days of king of the hill with no competion are gon
[11:54] kaiya Manbi: PG?
[11:54] Jolee Baxton: G rated
[11:54] Master Kane: g, pg, m, a
[11:54] Bitsy Giano: the benefits of islands
[11:54] Erinyse Planer: their costs are like 1/4th of SL. their customer support is like SL’s was back when Joppa, teagan and Twilight pretty much handeled it all
[11:54] Bitsy Giano: can change rating
[11:55] Erinyse Planer: (aka excellent)
[11:55] kaiya Manbi: oh well, then it is dropping, one of mine is PG and thats the one in and out all the time
[11:55] Bitsy Giano: very little lag
[11:55] Erinyse Planer: I have the feeeling when it goes live, SL will go under
[11:55] Sera Lok: yes, my PG parcel gets dropped as well
[11:55] Bitsy Giano: and oh ya neighbors wierd stuff doesn’t ruin presentation!!
[11:55] Master Kane: lol bisty.. yah.. no sex on them huh lol
[11:55] Susan Tsuki: and now for something politically radical: Who agrees that re-instating a small stipend to all free accounts — perhaps paid for by a small transaction tax on say the wealthiest 1% of avatars — would result in a net commerce stimulus (Keynes versus Friedman for the economists….)
[11:55] Medhue Simoni: Not nice to know Sera
[11:55] Erinyse Planer: wouldnt work susan
[11:56] Bitsy Giano: lol I just warn people I catch ya at it I’ll toss ya
[11:56] Equinox Pinion: susan..which party are you in LOL
[11:56] Sera Lok: Jack, is there an indication on how long Xstreet will continue to be the main online shopping resource? (sorry if already asked, i need notes)
[11:56] Susan Tsuki: well why not, Erinyse?
[11:56] Rene Erlanger: lol susan…don’t make this RL with all this taxation nonsense
[11:56] Khamon Fate: LL could bypass the middleman and just give the merchants the stipends directly
[11:56] Sonya Haight: Kaiya my pg full sim is the one thats never in search, the pg hs that doens’t have the store on it is the one thats dropping in and out and the full I’ve now changed to mature but its made no difference
[11:56] Jack Linden: Susan, a prosperity tax? that would be an interesting one
[11:56] Uni Ninetails: Told ya we need MaggieThatcher Linden
[11:56] Master Kane: damn susan… you ARE wanting to kill sl arent you
[11:56] Qie Niangao: wealthiest? My banker alt never buys anything. :p
[11:56] Talarus Luan: Why tax? LL can pay it out of the Lindex volume.
[11:56] Jack Linden: Not sure how that would go down
[11:56] Rene Erlanger: once it starts they’ll be adding taxes left right and centrea
[11:56] Equinox Pinion: <looks at jack> did you take something
[11:56] Bitsy Giano: lol don’t we sorta give you guys enough yet?
[11:56] APinkSwan Beauchamp: I don’t think that would go down very well…lol
[11:56] Erinyse Planer: its been done on similar platofrms. it simply doesnt provide enough of a real change in buying power
[11:57] Medhue Simoni: Sorry Jack we pay you enough.
[11:57] Jack Linden: stipends to basics is so easily games though.
[11:57] kaiya Manbi: yep, my mature ones are no where to be found, the PG one pops in search for a day or so every 10 days
[11:57] Jack Linden: *gamed
[11:57] Talarus Luan: Repeat: So, Jack, how about those Microparcels? I keep waiting for Luke Linden to step out of the shadows any minute.
[11:57] Master Kane: yeah and think of all the stupdi griefers that would suck that shit up
[11:57] Jolee Baxton: Why can’t we get some kind of break with tier, free Advertising, refunds..
[11:57] Khamon Fate: Philip could hand out a one time stimulus stipend to welcome himself back.
[11:57] Erinyse Planer: what happens, say you give Free accounts a stipend of 300… then the paids get 600. Everyne just rasises their price 300
[11:57] Qie Niangao: lol Talarus… Luke is so *coy*
[11:57] Equinox Pinion: tal..here you are!
[11:57] Bitsy Giano: I just can’t see why anyone would buy with usd vs linden on xstreet looking at that rate diff
[11:57] Erinyse Planer: boom the economy goes back to stagnation
[11:57] Jack Linden: okay guys, Tal has said the magic words ‘microparcel’, which is my cue to run to my next meeting.
[11:57] Talarus Luan: I have always been here.
[11:58] Equinox Pinion: lol
[11:58] Alexxa Despres: Way to go Tal
[11:58] Alexxa Despres: <<kidding
[11:58] Sera Lok: fix the linden rate on Xstreet, the conversion! please!
[11:58] Master Kane: oh thanks tal lol jk
[11:58] Uni Ninetails: next meeting = im going doon the pub.
[11:58] Susan Tsuki: out of the lindex volume would be inflationary and therefore as regressive as any flat tax, but what I’m saying is that the demand-side is far more important than the supply-side in SL too
[11:58] Alexxa Despres: Thanks Jack…. see you next week!
[11:58] Jack Linden: (Tal, I’m not sure where support are with that, but last time i looked there were very few left)
[11:58] Talarus Luan: Yeah, you run, you Sion Chicken.
[11:58] Qie Niangao: thanks Jack.
[11:58] Jack Linden: cheers folks!
[11:58] Medhue Simoni: cya next week jack, if I’m still alive here.
[11:58] Jolee Baxton: Thank you, Jack.
[11:58] Sera Lok: mrerr!
[11:58] Sammy Hermit: TY Jack
[11:58] Lady Sakai: cheers jack
[11:58] Uni Ninetails: ty Jack have a nice pint
[11:58] kaiya Manbi: thanks jack
[11:58] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Thanks, Jack
[11:58] Equinox Pinion: take care jack!
[11:58] Master Kane: thanks jack
[11:58] Drongle McMahon: Next time, Talarus, say it at the beginning.
[11:58] Talarus Luan: I need to ask earlier in the meeting.. give you a bit of a break.
[11:58] Alexxa Despres: Bye all…have a great weekend!
[11:58] Equinox Pinion: LOL!
[11:59] Equinox Pinion: take care all
[11:59] Sonya Haight: Serra you have the log?
[11:59] Medhue Simoni: good luck every1
[11:59] Sammy Hermit: not sure why i’m thanking him i’m still not in search lol
[11:59] Sera Lok: no i need it
[11:59] Master Kane: later all… have a good day… or try
[11:59] Jolee Baxton: Yes, good luck.
[11:59] kaiya Manbi: sammy, LOL Me too
[11:59] Talarus Luan: Luke needs to be taken out back and shot.
[11:59] Susan Tsuki: Erinyse, if prices go up but commerce goes up too, is that a net negative?