Jack Linden Office Hours – July 8th 2010
[11:00] Driftwood Miles: Hello Jack
[11:01] Lady Sakai: Hi Jack
[11:01] Joshe Darkstone: ok, loud cough just then, sum1s mic is live
[11:01] Equinox Pinion: hi jack
[11:01] Qie Niangao: greetings, Jack.
[11:01] Jack Linden: hey everyone
[11:01] Bronson Blackadder: HiJack?
[11:01] Jolee Baxton: Hi Jack
[11:01] Marianne McCann: Hey Jack
[11:01] Bronson Blackadder: this plane is going to libya
[11:01] Alexxa Despres: Hello Jack 
[11:01] Serra Anansi: Morning Jack
[11:01] Timothy Maximus: hey jack
[11:01] Uni Ninetails snerks Hijack… ouch…
[11:01] Lorac Cleanslate: Good Morning Everyone
[11:01] Lady Sakai: Lorac:)
[11:01] Melody Regent: Hello Jack, I am going to get right to the point today since I know alot of people have questions.
[11:02] Melody Regent: ***** JACK, Last week you were asked loads of times if there was going to be any refund or compensation for people because your system was screwed up and it was us that were paying the price. Each and every time, you ignored the question. So I am asking you again this week with the hope that I will not be as blatantly ignored as all the others last week were. Is there any plan in the works for compensating the people that pay for Linden Labs services that they are not getting? *****
[11:02] Shila Szondi: whitestag your mic is on
[11:02] Jack Linden: wow, hello Melody!
[11:02] Joshe Darkstone: hi jack, nice curve ball yesterday – any idea what id like to talk about today? 
[11:02] Nber Medici: Morning Jack
[11:02] Luna Cartier: I’d like to hear an answer for Melody
[11:02] Shila Szondi: yes as would I
[11:02] Uni Ninetails: Here here
[11:03] Charlene Trudeau: hiya, Uni and everyone
[11:03] Whitestag Gothly: Sheila me mic is always on : )
[11:03] Lady Sakai: Jack, I dont mean to be rude or ignorant about the seach problems, but any chance the Seach Team aka Sea Linden could get their own OH Maybe ?? pretty please ?
[11:03] Jack Linden: Sorry Melody, wasn’t meaning to ignore. Just tough to type and read so much stuff so quickly. We have no plans to offer compensation for the search bug etc
[11:03] Joshe Darkstone: whitestag could you pls close your mic?
[11:03] Melody Regent: It was asked like 30 times, Jack. It was ignored
[11:03] Equinox Pinion: Jack, are you aware that your great viewer 2 sometimes doesnt let people buy land?
[11:03] Marianne McCann: Noisy mic is noisy
[11:03] Lady Sakai: oh damn Im gonna craaash again 
(((
[11:04] Joshe Darkstone grabs a leg and keeps lady anchored to the ground
[11:04] Uni Ninetails: cam at the floor
[11:04] Sonya Haight throws Lady a rope
[11:04] Lady Sakai cams at the floor hoping and praying
[11:04] Zep Palen: Does this meeting have some kind of structure so that we dont speak in each others mouths?
[11:04] Timothy Maximus: Jack, will the new search release address the maturity ratings bug?
[11:04] Shila Szondi: Jack I would like to know when you are going to announce the grandfather pricing
[11:04] Jack Linden: So Search.. any moment now, in the next half hour or so, the latest search fixes should go live
[11:05] Luna Cartier: and those are?
[11:05] Timothy Maximus: will they solve the maturity ratings bug?
[11:05] Jack Linden: Some folks saw that briefly earlier while we were testing
[11:05] Ciaran Laval: Picks don’t count anymore and the bug is supposed to be fixed
[11:05] Uni Ninetails: didnt they remove picks as a search factor?
[11:05] Uni Ninetails nods
[11:05] Bitsy Giano: oh goodie drama thats NOT MINE
[11:05] Alexxa Despres: That was the FIX?
[11:05] Jack Linden: There will be a blog post with the release notes in.. a bunch of stuff going into this update
[11:05] Timothy Maximus: including a fix for the maturity ratings bug?
[11:05] Joshe Darkstone: so jack theres that, im interested in and answer to mels question as well, show in search doesnt seem to mean show in search anymore. but id also like to know who ddecided that since you cant seem to fix the bug with profiles you should come up with some lame excuse to remove a feature that has been used for years to kbuild businesses? that would be the picks issue
[11:06] Shila Szondi: Why are the lindens delaying the real estate section of the new marketplace, Once again making it harder on land owners
[11:06] Whitestag Gothly: I think it was Melody because they are not gonna compensate lol
[11:06] Melody Regent: I have two other questions I want to ask. I will just throw them out there. Then, unless somethng else somes up, I will watch and read. These are questions that have been asked before and not answered to anyone elses satisfaction. Thank you for the blantant NO on the previous question.
[11:06] Melody Regent: Jack, You have told us over and over that the new marketplace is only a BETA. With all the hoopla surrounding land of late: The lack of info in the wiki, the search, the bulk rates and so much more, why was land once again excluded. I would have thought that with the BETA you would have wanted to make a point of making sure land was included this time, instead if excluding it…yet again. When will the Labs stop treating us like we are second rate and start adding land as a priority instead of a nasty after thought? When will the Marketplace start to include land?
[11:07] Silken Wilder: to copy n paste……….When will the Marketplace start to include land?…
[11:07] Jack Linden: hence we took that decision
[11:07] Shila Szondi: I have the same questions..why are land owners once again punished
[11:07] Jack Linden: Joshe, as the blog post explains.. picks are not helping search at all. in fact they make it a lot less accurate – and we need to get search back to a state where both merchants and those searching can get the best from it
[11:08] Whitestag Gothly: Jack you might want to reconsider a agenda based discussion again : )
[11:08] Jack Linden: so the update includes a few things that i can list here..
[11:08] Lady Sakai sighs
[11:08] Jack Linden: improved listings pages (how they generate)
[11:08] Timothy Maximus: the maturity ratings bug?
[11:08] Gemini Dash: sorry to disturb you but how do you get pregnant on this game
[11:09] Opensource Obscure: Whitestag, I agree on having a meeting Agenda. it’s difficult for me to read here.
[11:09] Equinox Pinion: post it again mel..he is ignoring it
[11:09] Jack Linden: will get to that Timothy
[11:09] Silken Wilder facepalms
[11:09] Jack Linden: also a fix for results with None in the listing
[11:09] Melody Regent: I am letting him finish with the search thing, trust me, I wont let it go
[11:09] Lady Sakai pokes Silken
[11:09] Timothy Maximus: thanks jack 
sorry
[11:09] Ardy Lay: Gemini, that is disturbing.
[11:09] Whitestag Gothly: Yes and is spammed all to hell Open
[11:09] Luna Cartier: LEt him list the fixes, folks
[11:09] Joshe Darkstone: thats because you do it badly jack, not because its a bad idea. when you cut the results at 1000 you suddenly have a prepoonderance of profiles in there – you could just COUNT the relevance and not actually display them in search, and why yuou would treat other picks in peoples profiels as relevant to an unrelated parcel they also have in picks is.. well, again, someone has said it before – gsa is not designed to do what you are trying to make it do
[11:09] Jack Linden: Better handling of keyword spam
[11:09] Jack Linden: ..and much faster index generation
[11:09] Joshe Darkstone: but these devcisions you ar emaking seem designed to further damage stores
[11:09] Lady Sakai: no it isnt Ardy .. but this isnt the time or place for it Id admit that
[11:09] Rene Erlanger: Any joy with SEARCH Jack…aprat form that Blog…….when’s it happening
[11:10] Jack Linden: You should see the blog post go live shortly
[11:10] Gemini Dash: please can i know or u don’t know how to
[11:10] Jack Linden: Rene, it’s about to go live with the latest search update
[11:10] Joshe Darkstone: indexing 1000 results is bunk – of course its fast. you ignor e90% of what you should be looking at
[11:10] Marianne McCann: It’s off-topic for this discussion Gemini. Try using the search system to find places that provide that service
[11:10] Luna Cartier: Does this release fix the bug for parcels NOT listed in Search?
[11:10] MarillaAnne Slade: how many buts will the new search fix Jack?
[11:10] Medhue Simoni: What about the GO buttons for tping directly to products, when will we get this back?
[11:11] MarillaAnne Slade: bugs too even
[11:11] Silken Wilder: use your seach Gemini
[11:11] Melody Regent: Gemini Dash – take the LM I pass you and go there, they can help
[11:11] Gemini Dash accepted your inventory offer.
[11:11] Silken Wilder snickers
[11:11] Jack Linden: just reading back a second..
[11:11] Driftwood Miles: Faster indexing is a no brainer Jack with picks removed. You can only index on Name , Description & A Tick in Show in Search. Thats not a search…thats a list!
[11:11] Joshe Darkstone: why do we keep hearing about how fast the search engine is instead of how much less it does for us now?
[11:11] MarillaAnne Slade: Joshe has a great question too
[11:11] Pamela Galli: Jack, Commerce has had one OH since March — lots of changes and we are in the dark.
[11:11] MarillaAnne Slade: I’m not impressed that my region listing keeps showing up instead of the correct parcel
[11:12] Rene Erlanger: Jack.My question is this……you say Picks are causing all sorts of problems, but these were not porblems we had with GSA 5. Do you think you purchased a system that is just too overly complex for the type of SEARCH required for SL
[11:12] Caveman whispers: How is Babby Formed?
[11:12] Alexxa Despres: IF the preview we saw earlier was ANY indication of the fixes….that’s scarey…First 7 pages when I typed in ‘land’ were a list of regions and people…..I HARdLY think that is a ‘fix’
[11:12] Jack Linden: to Lady’s question.. in time I’m sure the search team will be looking at office hours, but right now they are focussed on improving it as much as possible, and quickly
[11:12] Joshe Darkstone: i have another one. At what point should the skptics amoungst us start thinking that you are crippling search to drive stores to the new marketplace?
[11:12] MarillaAnne Slade: pff i’m there Joshe
[11:12] Luna Cartier: Jack, will the parcels bug excluding them from search be fixed with this “upgrade?”
[11:12] Roberto Villosum accepted your inventory offer.
[11:12] Joshe Darkstone: at wehat point should the skeptics amoungst us start assuming you are leaving land out of the marketplace because you have empty continents to fill?
[11:13] Opensource Obscure: IMHO, gaming Search paying people to add Picks was lame anyway. Good move.
[11:13] Jack Linden: Rene, they were problems with GSA5 too, the picks issues aren’t new but they are in the way of us getting search results that are accurate
[11:13] Silken Wilder: and those who do not game picks Open???????
[11:13] Asterion Coen: got an emergency. nice seeing you folks, and have fun
[11:13] Lady Sakai: Jack, that is all good BUT … meanwhile a lot of other important questions is gonna be ignored cos this is turning into “SEACH 101″ .. *sighs*
[11:13] Jack Linden: Luna, yes that bug is fixed
[11:13] Joshe Darkstone is a skptic, first class
[11:13] Marianne McCann: See ya Asterion
[11:13] Charlene Trudeau: Jack has assured me that land will be brought back into the marketplace, that it is a strong concern, but they want to be sure they implement it correctly and strongly for us
[11:14] Driftwood Miles: Picks are not ideal for search indexing…but if you remove without replacing your making search impotent
[11:14] Melody Regent: Jack, You have told us over and over that the new marketplace is only a BETA. With all the hoopla surrounding land of late: The lack of info in the wiki, the search, the bulk rates and so much more, why was land once again excluded. I would have thought that with the BETA you would have wanted to make a point of making sure land was included this time, instead if excluding it…yet again. When will the Labs stop treating us like we are second rate and start adding land as a priority instead of a nasty after thought? When will the Marketplace start to include land?
[11:14] Equinox Pinion: charlene that means we will wait ages for it!!
[11:14] Shila Szondi: I havent heard an answer to when the lands will be included in the marketplace
[11:14] Charlene Trudeau: I suggested we have a link not only off the marketplace home but also under ‘buy land’
[11:14] Joshe Darkstone: land will be brought back into the search when they are done selling off their continent in the form of linden homes to people who wont know there is an alternative
[11:14] Marianne McCann: I gotta admit, after four plus years of search being… difficult… I’m very much a skeptic about it
[11:15] Shila Szondi: Also I asked right at the beginning about the date to announce the prices on the grandfathered sim..still no answer
[11:15] Jack Linden: Charlene, yes – we’re going to look at the land listings issue for the new marketplace and make a decision on how best to handle it. until then the two will run side by side whilst we test the core functionality
[11:15] Pamela Galli: Jack, where can merchants get questions answerd? Huge changes with the marketplace and we are left in the dark.
[11:15] Talarus Luan: Mari! My little eternal optimist! NUUUUU!!!!
[11:15] Marianne McCann grins
[11:15] Equinox Pinion: you will make decisions? why dont you ask us jack so it isnt screwed up again
[11:15] MarillaAnne Slade: lol I’ve been optomistic for 2 yrs
[11:15] MarillaAnne Slade: i hit the wall
[11:15] Melody Regent: Run side by side? When will they start to run at ALL?
[11:16] Marianne McCann: Can’t even tell ya the last time I used search for anything other than bringing up a user profile.
[11:16] Joshe Darkstone: why isremoving picks suddenly such a priority when removing traffic gaming is making the few who ignor ethe ban rich while the rest are not making the cut?
[11:16] Uni Ninetails: same here
[11:16] Jack Linden: Melody.. as I’ve said, it *is* a beta, it doesn’t include everything because it makes no sense to deliver everything for a live test in this case. We want to test the core functionality and over time we will continue to add other features.. some that are ones we miss from xstreet and some that add new features
[11:16] Lady Sakai: same for me MArianne
[11:16] Ziki Questi: jack, can you tell us what the timeframe is for implementing the assistant feature, and how soon it might be possible for merchants to have more than one storefront?
[11:16] MarillaAnne Slade: pics aren’t even the issue
[11:16] Driftwood Miles: Search has updated….check it out!!!
[11:16] MarillaAnne Slade: there a deep deep programing bugs
[11:16] Shila Szondi: [11:15] Shila Szondi: Also I asked right at the beginning about the date to announce the prices on the grandfathered sim..still no answer
[11:16] Marianne McCann: Always been too unreliable for anything beyond that
[11:16] Talarus Luan: I use it as an enticement to start crying Dragon tears when I look at mainland prices.
[11:17] Medhue Simoni: Jack, it is not even usable
[11:17] MarillaAnne Slade: and it’s not *NOT* viewer based
[11:17] Jack Linden: Yep, I believe the search changes are now live
[11:17] Melody Regent: I understand it is BETA Jack, but you are missing the point. Why didnt you have land as PART of the BETA, specially considering all the crap that land has been going thru of late. I would think you want want to make it a priority.
[11:17] Driftwood Miles: If thats it Jack…we might as well all go home now!!
[11:17] Lady Sakai: I agree Talus, Mainland prices are a joke at best
[11:17] Melody Regent: OK< so it is BETA, ad we are told over and over and over. WHEN will it be added to the BETA or at all?
[11:17] Pamela Galli: Jack we have two pages of Marketplace JIRA’s — but we are in the dark about everyting.
[11:17] Timo Daehlie: the are not that bad .. the bottom went up from 0.5 to 0.6 this week
[11:17] MarillaAnne Slade: nope
[11:18] MarillaAnne Slade: search is still borked
[11:18] Alexxa Despres: yes…and wow….when I go to look for land rental….. I get a LIST of regions.Again….this is a FIX?
[11:18] Tasia Tonic: immediately what I see in this search result is that almost all algroithms for search were reset…Jack…what is going on over there? Titles, Dessciptions…I see another roll back this is not right
[11:18] MarillaAnne Slade: borked borked borked
[11:18] Dirk Klees: Are there any plans to implement changes to issue object keyword spam in search? I see the current search being rolled out right now and i see places dominating the results who have tons of objects rezzed containing the same keyword spam over and over again in their name/description
[11:18] Equinox Pinion: wow…we are number one lol
[11:18] Joshe Darkstone: omfg – im on top for landscaping, can you imagine that – shuts up and sits quietly in the corner *love that new search jack*
[11:18] MarillaAnne Slade: yep region name in place of parcel name
[11:18] Jack Linden: Melody, I actually don’t think the land listings on xstreet are that great. I think we can do better, and part of the reasoning in leaving it out is that it’s not as simple as just doing the same again. The new platform gives us the chance to look at it properly.
[11:18] Uni Ninetails: lol… Joshe
[11:18] Lady Sakai: Alexxa, dont even try and look for rental homes … we are getting excluded all over
[11:18] Talarus Luan: My neighbor sold his whole sim for L$110,000. Talk about a steal.
[11:18] Equinox Pinion: they are not great..but they help us selling land
[11:18] Equinox Pinion: now we have nothing!!
[11:18] Melody Regent: Thank you for looking at it properly, when can we expect to see something in the BETA for land?
[11:19] Tasia Tonic: yeah
[11:19] Roberto Villosum: Jack… just to have an idea… how much of the gross revenue LL does on land sales, private estates and all. I know its a big number, altough i dont have the actualt figures. But do you realize that putting peope in such a condition where who has hundrds of sims is NOT able to sell or at least to use the marketplace that has always been one fo the key points fo sales, dont you think that has a defnite priority ?
[11:19] Jack Linden: Equinox, we haven’t taken them away. They will stay in xstreet as we work through the beta process
[11:19] Talarus Luan: Some noob bought it and promptly put it back up for sale at L$850,000 (L$15/sqm)
[11:19] Tasia Tonic: this search needs to index properly is what I am hoping for….seriously this has major issues…did you go to human editing? LOL
[11:19] Equinox Pinion: Jack, are you aware that your great viewer 2 sometimes doesnt let people buy land?
[11:19] Dennis Lagan: why do you ask us still 25 lindens for this listings then, how about a grace period till you did it properly? or will you triple the pricing?
[11:19] Melody Regent: When will they be added to the MarketPlace Jack, when can we expect to be a part of this BETA of yours
[11:19] Surf City: LandMark giver at Surf City (Surf Sity – Homestead for Sale – L$8000/wk tier) has just been used by Jes Luik !
[11:19] Equinox Pinion: i am sure many lost land sales because of it
[11:20] Shila Szondi: Also I asked right at the beginning about the date to announce the prices on the grandfathered sim..still no answer
[11:20] APinkSwan Beauchamp: It’s nice to do it properly, but I would think that since special deals have been made (bulk buying), it would really be a priority to get it into the marketplace.
[11:20] Lady Sakai: Jack, RENTAL HOMES dont have anyway of advertising .. cept for the SHOW in Seach … What about that ?
[11:20] Tasia Tonic: Hey jack can we start watching the graveyard for the viewer 2
[11:20] Tasia Tonic: jhehe
[11:20] Jack Linden: Melody, as we’re discussing it at the moment I can’t give you a time. It depends on how we decide to approach it
[11:20] Roberto Villosum: And to top Melody and the others on this… if land sales fails miserably as it seems. How much money is LL going to loose ?
[11:21] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Is Delby going to be here today to discuss bulk buying?
[11:21] Sonya Haight: so you’re saying xstreets land forums won’t be closed before there is a replacement on the new marketplace?
[11:21] Shila Szondi: JACK, can I please get an Answer
[11:21] Melody Regent: any time in 2010 or should we wait for 2011 on this. Maybe narrow it down to a quarter?
[11:21] Medhue Simoni: Jack, this new search is giving 1000 times worst results than it did not 10 min ago
[11:21] Tasia Tonic: wowww…I get BDSM results on a pg serach
[11:21] Tasia Tonic: search
[11:21] Tasia Tonic: :/
[11:21] Jack Linden: Shila, sorry missed the earlier Q.. we know we need to make that announcement soon. We will try to get it out as fast as we can
[11:21] MarillaAnne Slade: look here’s the deal jack … I can’t afford my whole sim … for 2 years I’ve had nearly all the same shopkeepers … TWO YEARS …. now they can’t make money on my sim because the parcel name doesn’t show up … just the region name and AND AND for the few parcels that do show up … they*ONLY* show if PG … JUST pg is selected.
[11:21] Medhue Simoni: How can you say at all that this is better
[11:21] Jack Linden: Sonya, yes
[11:21] Dirk Klees: Are there any plans to implement changes to issue object keyword spam in search? I see the current search being rolled out right now and i see places dominating the results who have tons of objects rezzed containing the same keyword spam over and over again in their name/description
[11:22] Medhue Simoni: This is a worse mess than we had jack
[11:22] Charlene Trudeau: Jack, Thank you. The land listings as is are HORRIBLE, but they remain our single best tool for reaching our future residents. We definitely want better, we just don’t want to be left without for long, even if it means a compromise til you roll out ‘ideal’.
[11:22] Driftwood Miles: Jack, why does search still not work?
[11:22] MarillaAnne Slade: so guess what …. unless something changes in a hurry … i won’t get to keep playing with my little artsy fartsy stuff.
[11:22] MarillaAnne Slade: and there’s nothing exceptional about my story
[11:22] Melody Regent: Jack, you need to give us SOMETHING in the meantime. How about a MOTD to the LAND FORUMS? do that atleast once a week.
[11:22] Timothy Maximus: has the maturity ratings bug been fixed?
[11:22] MarillaAnne Slade: it is *THE* current story of sl
[11:23] Tasia Tonic: no Timothy
[11:23] Melody Regent: Jack? For christ sake, I got an EMAIL ABOUT BECOMING A VAMPIRE!!!!! Why cant we get one about land?
[11:23] MarillaAnne Slade: AND if i don’t think I’ll be in SL … who do you think I’m encouraging to enter SL
[11:23] Tasia Tonic: i am still getting rated X items in pg search
[11:23] Pamela Galli: There are NO commerce product forums
[11:23] Jack Linden: MarillaAnne, I’d need more details to be able to really address that situation. If the stores are not PG, but are trying to list on a pG region, that may be an issue
[11:23] Medhue Simoni: Jack you should end this office hour right now, cause people are going to start screaming in here
[11:23] Jack Linden: Hard for me to say without the details
[11:23] Equinox Pinion: Jack, what about paying tier in L$ is that on your list or a no deal?
[11:23] Qie Niangao: lol, Mel: you’re in the wrong business, obviously. want some fangs?
[11:23] Lady Sakai: Medhue, Jack is used to that by now
[11:23] MarillaAnne Slade: Jack it’s a pg sim … has always been pg … i control all the parcel info … and settings
[11:23] Talarus Luan: I already have fangs. <.<
[11:24] Rene Erlanger: Someone should be made accountable for the SEARCH debacle, which has seen 100′s of businesses closed and real USD lost…..not to mention the time spent building their businesss over time
[11:24] Melody Regent: tell me about it Qie
[11:24] Roberto Villosum: There are fantastic search engines out there. Why not use those ? There are sytems for keywording almost anything the proper way, there are search engines (google in the very first pace) that are harder to foul. Why reinvent the wheel everytime ? Choice between “make or buy”, unless its a very specilaized project (and SL search is NOT that specialized) in a common business sense is always up for the “buy”. Not to the “make”.
[11:24] Silken Wilder: welcome to the Dark Side Melody
[11:24] MarillaAnne Slade: just to e sure that there wasn’t some insanity going on … i set the sim to mature and went to each of the 20 odd parcels and double ck’d all the settings.
[11:24] Jack Linden: MarillaAnne, then you;d need to give us some specific info for us to take a look
[11:25] MarillaAnne Slade: If i do this … will you swear to me that you’ll look
[11:25] MarillaAnne Slade: I know how to do it
[11:25] Jack Linden: Roberto, we use the google search appliance. Agreed that there are others out there; right now this is the platform we’re using though
[11:25] MarillaAnne Slade: but i’m not going to waste my time without a promise in front of this group
[11:25] Tasia Tonic: it appears that LL also took the TITLE of the land out of the algorithms
[11:25] Lady Sakai: Jack, We need aomthing for RENATAL HOMES .. please .. I run a smal community sim and we have some rental homes to help us cover the tier. This seach is a killer Please give us a bone here !!
[11:25] Melody Regent: Jack, why not throw a bone here. So we are not a part of your little BETA project. Ok, cool. I will let that drop for now. However, why not set a MOTD or send and email. Is that seriously a bad thing? Make a step here. Work with us. Give us SOME way to save some of this. It cost you nothing at all to do a MOTD or Email. You sure do it for Linden homes
[11:25] Medhue Simoni: Jack my satelite store now shows ahead of my Main store, this is not better
[11:25] Joshe Darkstone: well before i do any more biting off heads im withdrawing my fangs while i try to find other parcels in search, doesnt mean im not angry over all thins, has probably cost me $10000, and several islands. but ill keep my council for th emoment
[11:25] Pamela Galli: Is there anyone in charge of Commerce?
[11:25] Jack Linden: MarillaAnne, yes we’ll look
[11:25] Melody Regent: lol, lady!!!! Bones anyone
[11:25] Driftwood Miles: Looks like you used a Nuclear Bomb to crack a nut
[11:26] MarillaAnne Slade: OK fine
[11:26] Tasia Tonic: this makes zero sense Jack…of all things search I have never seen the algorithms just poof…something has to be wrong here
[11:26] MarillaAnne Slade: I’ll set up some tests
[11:26] Talarus Luan: I don’t think one can blame the tools, nor will a new tool make the situation any better. At some point, the finger needs to be pointed at the tool user.
[11:26] Roberto Villosum: Jack…i have been working woth the damn thing for ages. And it DOES work perfectly, if you know how to tune it. Call some of the G folks in to help.
[11:26] Lady Sakai: any bone .. some thiiing pleaaassseeeeee Jack
[11:26] MarillaAnne Slade: yea well all know it’s not the tool
[11:26] Jack Linden: Yes, we’ll do MOTD for estates. We’re arranging that for this coming week
[11:26] Melody Regent: Email
[11:26] Melody Regent: MOTD
[11:26] Melody Regent: simple? Yes or no?
[11:26] Lady Sakai: RENTAL HOMES :p
[11:26] Driftwood Miles: 5k anyone?
[11:26] Tasia Tonic: Jack is this thing indexed yet?
[11:26] Ciaran Laval: This search is fixed? My parcel isn’t appearing
[11:26] Equinox Pinion: errrr…and where will it lead people???
[11:26] Driftwood Miles: yes Tasia ))
[11:27] Jack Linden: Sadly we’ll just be pointing to the wiki pages etc, but it’s a start. We can’t point to a specific location because we’d bury the region
[11:27] Tasia Tonic: noway
[11:27] Driftwood Miles: good isn’t it
[11:27] Tasia Tonic: this is not a full indexing
[11:27] Melody Regent: Drift, they will add it for 20 minues, find a bug and do a rollback. Not taking that bet
[11:27] Tasia Tonic: it cant be
[11:27] Melody Regent: hahah
[11:27] Driftwood Miles: They think it is
[11:27] Lady Sakai: oh hell Jack .. bury me .. please .. anything !!
[11:27] Melody Regent: Jack, point to the FORUMS!!!
[11:27] Alexxa Despres: yes Ciaran…. and the Emperor is wearing clothes too!
[11:27] Melody Regent: So we can advertise
[11:27] Silken Wilder quietly makes her exit..
[11:27] Tasia Tonic: it contains NO algorithms :/
[11:27] Driftwood Miles: what have they got left to index now that picks and traffic and keywords have gone?
[11:27] Melody Regent: Lady, advertise int hem all since you have none
[11:27] Luna Cartier: Is there someone on the actual Search team available to discuss the issues?
[11:27] MarillaAnne Slade: The person you need to Hire is Tasia
[11:28] Lady Sakai: advertise where Mel ?
[11:28] Marianne McCann: Have fun, all. Gonna run
[11:28] Jack Linden: Melody, yeah we could point there too just lacks some clear explanation but we could
[11:28] Melody Regent: your rentals
[11:28] Lady Sakai: Im not allowed anywhere I only have Rental homes and stores now
[11:28] Tasia Tonic: hell I have been a search engine optimization specialist for 14 years
[11:28] Melody Regent: That gives us a place to advertise and gives you a chance to help us do it
[11:28] Lady Sakai: and no one is renting stores with the seach messed up like it is
[11:28] Tasia Tonic: this is horrible
[11:28] Tasia Tonic: omg
[11:28] Jack Linden: Driftwood, we index everything.. names, objects, locations, events etc.
[11:28] Tasia Tonic: you have ZERO algorithms JACK
[11:28] Melody Regent: it will also get people to look for forums. Both to advertise and to look for things
[11:28] MarillaAnne Slade: no Jack
[11:28] Tasia Tonic: title, desciption NADA
[11:28] MarillaAnne Slade: Tasia knows
[11:29] MarillaAnne Slade: and I know
[11:29] MarillaAnne Slade: this is bs
[11:29] Driftwood Miles: thats everything Jack you just listed it all!!!
[11:29] Rene Erlanger: Jack….why do LL stubbornly refuse to accept when things don;t work, why don’t you listen to your customer base, …..the ones that invest the real dollars into this game. There’s no harm in putting your hands up…..and saying”we got this wrong”. Your Search system isn’t working….and hasn’t done so for the last 3 months. Why do you all at LL stubbornly carry on with what appears to be a FAIL………..its the same with Viewer 2.0, where adoption rates are still low for what it was meant to be.
[11:29] MarillaAnne Slade: don’t try to out geek the geeks
[11:29] Tasia Tonic: there is no way possible this is an indexing of any kind
[11:29] Ciaran Laval: This is not good
[11:29] Lady Sakai: hell sure .. Jack pont ppl to birmingham City and Ill set up advertisment for the Esates .. hows that ?
[11:29] Driftwood Miles: you don’t need an alogarithm for that you need a three year olds cloth maffs book
[11:29] Melody Regent: Its not a fail Rene – it is an EPIC FAIL
[11:29] Tasia Tonic: I think I will wait 24 hours…either they will roll it back or they will put something in to gain ranking
[11:29] Charlene Trudeau: speaking of indexing events, Jack, isn’t there any way to get search to immediately ignore events wiuth a time/date stamp that is already past?
[11:29] Medhue Simoni: Every1, do a search, it’s a mess
[11:30] Uni Ninetails: just did, its bollock’d
[11:30] Alexxa Despres: yes it is is Medhue
[11:30] Tasia Tonic: not even content is showing as a criteria
[11:30] Jack Linden: Rene, i think that’s unfair. I’ve stood here week in week out and have talked about the fact that we know search has been broken. We’ve talked about the problems. We want it fixed as much as you guys do. I would love it to be instant, but it’s not. We are fixing it as fast as we can
[11:30] Timothy Maximus: all i ask from the search is consistency
[11:30] Charlene Trudeau: gettign search results wihtout excluding events, is so cluttered with past events in many search results
[11:30] Dirk Klees: Jack: Why not filter our object keyword spam, there are tons of places listed top in search repeating the same keywords over and over again in the object name/description? That’s gaming the search engine too!
[11:30] Dirk Klees: out*
[11:30] Jack Linden: We totally accept our role in getting it resolved asap
[11:31] MarillaAnne Slade: Dirk it’s not quite that easy
[11:31] Ciaran Laval: This is worse than before, now I don’t appear in any maturity rating
[11:31] Timothy Maximus: has the maturity ratings bug been fixed?
[11:31] Pamela Galli: Jack when can merchants have an office hour? Who is head of commerce? We are in the dark.
[11:31] Luna Cartier: Yeah, but Jack, if you don’t do anything to remedy the situation, it doesn’t matter if you hit yourself with a bat over and over.
[11:31] Joshe Darkstone: i guess the question would be – why do you keep breaking things ?
[11:31] Driftwood Miles: But jack you have just made monumentally ridiculous decisions and rolled out something that is less fit for purpose than the last not fit for purpose search was
[11:31] MarillaAnne Slade: a jewelry store will have 100 necklaces
[11:31] MarillaAnne Slade: legit
[11:31] Joshe Darkstone: i mean it doesnt make sense if you understand that peoples lives are being ruined by it
[11:31] Kayleigh McMillan: more we can’t ask Jack
[11:31] Charlene Trudeau: marketplace and search both need office hours, if possible, for, pardon me everyone, constructive input
[11:31] MarillaAnne Slade: it has to be named necklace so that it can also be found in the individual
[11:31] MarillaAnne Slade: inventory
[11:31] Tasia Tonic: actually Dirk i agree with that…they could use spamming as a way to knock people out of search..that is search old
[11:31] Tasia Tonic: like 12 years old
[11:32] Dirk Klees: if the search engine is intelligent it would see repeating keywords in the same object…not talking about several similar products, but about objects exclusively used to game search
[11:32] APinkSwan Beauchamp: totally agrees with Charlene!
[11:32] Joshe Darkstone: you dont ahve to remove land from search to figure out a new way to do it, use the old way until you have a new way
[11:32] Medhue Simoni: “animated texture paintings” is #2 in a search for animation
[11:32] MarillaAnne Slade: it’s the negatives that they have no clue about
[11:32] Driftwood Miles: Shopping Mall is no
[11:32] Jack Linden: Pamela, as you;ve probably seen the commerce team have been pushing out the new marketplace; i’m not sure if they plan on office hours but they have been answering feedback in the forums etc on the new site
[11:32] Roberto Villosum: The Google engine they claim to use dos just that. Overkeywording WILL lower your rank in search, Tasia.
[11:32] MarillaAnne Slade: a coffee shop will have tea coffee etc … but not dresses
[11:32] Driftwood Miles: it’s actually becoming amusing
[11:33] Tasia Tonic: that is what I am saying Roberto
[11:33] Lim Catteneo: MarillaAnne++ there are manu legitimate reasons why a parclel would have a signle word repeated 100s of times, my store include store name in each product, am I now going to get punished for “stuffing”?
[11:33] Ciaran Laval: Indeed Marilla, a shoe store should be describing their items as a shoe, the idea that they will get punished for that is ludicrous
[11:33] APinkSwan Beauchamp: I understand the HUGE impact of search, but it there anything else on your agenda to discuss today Jack?
[11:33] Tasia Tonic: spamming should get yur banned not raised on the search
[11:33] Pamela Galli: not for days Jack — the migration was to be finished Tuesday; it was not. We are left in the dark.
[11:33] Dirk Klees: right now though, i see places with repeating keywords in objects in the search result DOMINATING on the first places
[11:33] Shila Szondi: Im still seeing a ton of bots out on sims, has LL abandoned going after the bots and unfair traffic gaming?
[11:33] Tasia Tonic: google is famous for black balling a site for it
[11:33] MarillaAnne Slade: a dress shop that as a tea colored dress iss not a coffee shop
[11:33] Tasia Tonic: yeah there is a ton of that Dirk or there had been
[11:33] Jack Linden: Joshe, re-developing the land listings as they were, in the new site, knowing we wanted to change it – wouldn’t be sensible. We’re dual running, so that the land listings remain through beta, while we make a decision on how to address it
[11:33] Jack Linden: I think that’s absolutely the right approach
[11:33] Lady Sakai: maybe they have a coffee coloured dress also ?
[11:33] Joshe Darkstone: i see people actually crying in here, well in rl, because this is ruining them – and when you sit in a wheelchair and this is your anchor, the only thing that makes something possible for you, its really dificult to watch LL just break everything they touch lately and put these peoiple at risk of losing their homes, as well as their incomes
[11:34] MarillaAnne Slade: but yes a human that is alerted to an obvious spam … should have the power to at least FLAG the stupid place
[11:34] Medhue Simoni: Jack, we waited 135 days for this ever worse search?
[11:34] AnnMarie Otoole: Charge Lindens per Keywords, that will clean it up.
[11:34] Dirk Klees: if someone uses objects on their parcel having “LAND LAND LAND LAND BUY LAND BUY LAND” and so on, they should drop to the bottom imo, and not get on the top of the list
[11:34] Harper Beresford: Joshe, since when is it Linden Lab’s responsibility to make sure you keep your HOME? Go find another money making enterprise.
[11:34] Tasia Tonic: Jack are we starting a 24 hour waiting period here for this to properly index? Maybe that would take out some confustion
[11:34] Jack Linden: Shila, we are still warning and where necessary taking action on bot abuse. Those that use bots to push traffic are risking being removed from search
[11:34] MarillaAnne Slade: Dirk, you should have the power to AR that parcel
[11:35] Joshe Darkstone: so tyou are saying that the existing land search will stay live until a new method is implimented jack? that isnt what you said last week i dont htink
[11:35] Lady Sakai: No AnnMarie, that will only push out the samll merchants and beginner stores and bennefit the big ones
[11:35] Jack Linden: Also remember that residents can’t tell if bots have been listed as bots (in which case we discount them from traffic).
[11:35] Jack Linden: So you may see bots, but they may be having no impact
[11:35] MarillaAnne Slade: and a half-wit at a help desk should be able to flag that owner
[11:35] Dirk Klees: I would spend my whole time hunting and AR’ing…thats a job the search engine should do
[11:35] Melody Regent: stop the use of traffic as a factor
[11:35] Rene Erlanger: Jack – I don;’t think its unfair…….you;ve had a broken Search system for 3.5 months nearly, each fix you introduce brings up new issues. Whislt the GSA 5 search wasn;t perfect……..it was useable. You purchase an expensive Search engine, took a few days to screw up its implementation…..3.5 months down the road, its still not working………PRICELESS!
[11:35] Shila Szondi: Im seeing a lot of bots come back that drive up the traffic, they arent listed
[11:35] Linux Rootcreeper: oh boy
[11:35] Joshe Darkstone: well when they are cloouds hiding under the water in a cocoon, its a fair assumption – but ok :_)
[11:36] Lady Sakai: oh GOD Yes please .. I agree with mel.. stop the traffic please !
[11:36] Lorac Cleanslate: lol
[11:36] Uni Ninetails: jack for pitys sake… a bloomin gaggle of newbbots sitting at 2000m insite a friggin invisiprim… -_- thatll be bots.
[11:36] Lim Catteneo: the new search just became active, it has totally irrelevant results, put some obscure sites on top
[11:36] MarillaAnne Slade: Jack why do you people never learn?
[11:36] MarillaAnne Slade: *WE* *know* geek
[11:36] Shery Capalini: do al of these meeting srun like this so not fair to anyone where we ask a question and get an answer instead of a free for all
[11:36] Talarus Luan: They learn; the problem is which lessons.
[11:37] Lorac Cleanslate: this is it girl
[11:37] Timothy Maximus: has the maturity ratings bug been fixed?
[11:37] APinkSwan Beauchamp: I agree, Shery. We need an agenda and a set time for discussing each issue.
[11:37] Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[11:37] Uni Ninetails: Shery: its like this all the time Jack never takes the suggestion of having an Agenda like Nyx Linden does.
[11:37] Roberto Villosum: Jack… i am realy (badly) impressed. I undertand you are doing your best in here, dealing with all the people. But again… land maket in beta and no easy alterantive while you are at it ? I mean is your developer team working to keep you in business or trying to steer people out of SL because with the hundrrds of thousand follars invested in land they wont take the loss just because LL wont let them run the business they chose ? “What was the claim ? “A 3D world made by residents” or something like that ?
[11:37] Serra Anansi agrees with Shery
[11:37] Ciaran Laval: Timothy, put it this way, my parcel I’m looking for now doesn’t appear at all
[11:37] Jack Linden: Sorry Shery, this one is a little more rapid than usual but they do tend to be freeform
[11:37] Timothy Maximus: mine neither
[11:37] Timothy Maximus: but i was just curious lol
[11:37] Kayleigh McMillan: agrees shery
[11:38] Medhue Simoni: Mine does not show either in this mess
[11:38] Dennis Lagan: its as messy as the others. SL is not made to have mass meetings. It should be done by an email list.
[11:38] Linux Rootcreeper: Jack’s queue is probably pretty stacked atm haha
[11:38] Shery Capalini: yes this is madness and not fair to anyone here or jack linden
[11:38] Tasia Tonic: I am sorry Jack i need to ask again…can you clarify if Search has indexed fully or are we in that 24 hour reindexing pattern?
[11:38] APinkSwan Beauchamp: We only have you for an hour Jack and others may have other topics to discuss…:)
[11:38] Jolee Baxton: If I hve a n AD and it’s Mature, it may not be seen or more likely to been seen if it’s PG?
[11:38] Kayleigh McMillan: couldn’t agree mor ei don’t like this
[11:38] Harper Beresford: Shery, this is a sort of public therapy session where people get to abuse Jack and he gleans from their abuse what is causing great amounts of anxiety for customers
[11:38] Luna Cartier: And then they do nothing about it
[11:38] Kayleigh McMillan: wow that’s terrible lol
[11:38] MarillaAnne Slade: Timothy … No. the maturity bug is not fixed
[11:38] Equinox Pinion: we dot abuse him harper….we just tell him what is wrong
[11:38] Jack Linden: Tasia, I expect it’ll still be moving around a bit yet as the new indexes settle
[11:39] Dirk Klees: It seems to be again, that people who comply with the search engine recommendations mentioned in the wiki will be punished, and those who conduct keyword spam will be rewarded by landing on the first places of results
[11:39] Luna Cartier: Rinse. Repeat
[11:39] Shery Capalini: ok Harper but doesnt seem to be that productive
[11:39] Tasia Tonic: k
[11:39] Jack Linden: It’s literally just gone live
[11:39] Whitestag Gothly: Ok Jack I have a question for you why is it that as we know linden labs is aware of this issue and had planned a corrective time frame by prioritizing and allocating man paower to fix it if they are in fact going to. Done deal we are aware but the topic of these meetings are always the same and allowed to just spam over and over the same old topic when decisions have already been made. Why is it you have no control over the meeting to touch on and progress to other topics that might be problems? Why allow the meeting to be controlled by the same thing where a agenda could bring out other important issues?
[11:39] Sonya Haight: don’t do that again Lady
[11:39] Jack Linden: So it’ll take a while to settle
[11:39] Shila Szondi: anyone have the wiki link please?
[11:39] Harper Beresford: but it is for these individuals, clearly, Shery
[11:39] Tasia Tonic: I am going to wait for the 24 horu mark before I make any calls on algorithms…but right now soemthing is not right :/ good luck ya’ll
[11:39] Raven Pennyfeather: Back to the studio.. thank you Jack for your updates and information. Much appreciated
[11:39] Joshe Darkstone: jack, i could write you a lil lsl tool so that any time we have questions we can ask them and you can just wjere it on your belt and have all of our opinions all the time… that might sort things out eventually
[11:39] Tasia Tonic: bye bye for now
[11:40] Medhue Simoni: Yeah, just keep waitng every1, lol.
[11:40] Harper Beresford: isn’t that what you use Concierge for, Joshe?
[11:40] Dirk Klees: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Search_Guidelines
[11:40] Pamela Galli: Jack, please ask Grant or someone to come back to the forums — we wonder what happened to the migration, we are in the dark.
[11:40] Talarus Luan: Hey, it worked for adfarms and microparcels. 
[11:40] Shila Szondi: thanks Dirk
[11:40] Jack Linden: Whitestag, I think that’s a good point. This meeting has been running for a long time, it does get harder for both me and the audience. It may be that we need to move to an agenda and specific speakers
[11:40] Talarus Luan: If we can just wait long enough, they’ll eventually be resolved, too!
[11:40] Dirk Klees: you’re welcome ㋡
[11:41] Timothy Maximus: take care peeps i gtg
[11:41] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Exactly, Jack!
[11:41] Kayleigh McMillan: neegood idea jack
[11:41] Timothy Maximus: thanks jack
[11:41] Lim Catteneo: the serarch result as this “improved” search show are going to be the final nail in the coffin for SL in-world economy, man totally irrelevant 5 product shops showing on top
[11:41] Zep Palen: Jack you just need to be able to move the visitors to a speakers list…
[11:41] Dennis Lagan: make sure its the users agenda, not lindenlabs
[11:41] Nber Medici: Jack, what is the maximum number of Homesteads on one CPU? I keep getting people tell me different numbers and want to confirm what it is.
[11:41] Kayleigh McMillan: send a notecard with question on a certain date and we come here to listen to teh answers
[11:41] Jolee Baxton: I hope this all changes very soon or I’m in trouble in my RL.
[11:41] Uni Ninetails: Jack… talk to Nyx. Seriously.
[11:41] Dirk Klees: Jack, the recent blog post from Sea says that keyword spam will be punished. Can we expect that those spamming places will drop while the indexing goes on? He mentions some 72-96 hours to be complete
[11:41] Whitestag Gothly: I agree Jack or whats the point of it
[11:41] Joshe Darkstone: lol, why yes harper, but i dont get answers in CIG
[11:42] Equinox Pinion: 4 Nber…16 on a server
[11:42] Jack Linden: Yes Dirk, exactly. (Sea is a she btw)
[11:42] Dirk Klees: She* sorry
[11:42] Talarus Luan: I thought they moved to 3 Homesteads per CPU
[11:42] Linux Rootcreeper: this is a pretty big bottleneck
[11:42] Joshe Darkstone: personally i prefer this format, an agenda means no answers if they are going to filter the questions
[11:42] Nber Medici: Would like to hear that from Jack.
[11:42] Shery Capalini: jack this is my first office hours , I have to say you are mad to deal with this format
[11:42] Kayleigh McMillan: got to poof for dinner
[11:42] Linux Rootcreeper: Yeah Shery lol
[11:42] Zep Palen: Jack what will then be considered as keyword spamming? I mean my business name is in all my products
[11:42] Jolee Baxton: So, If I have an AD in classified, it shouldn’t have many keywords?
[11:42] Kayleigh McMillan: yes
[11:42] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Joshe, too many meetings are taken up buy just one subject.
[11:42] Jack Linden: Nber, it varies as we have a mix of hardware with different numbers of cores per cpu
[11:43] Lady Sakai: Shery .. its not normally as mad as this … seach has completely taken over by now
[11:43] Uni Ninetails: Zep: yes id like an answer. same here
[11:43] Jolee Baxton: is just confused
[11:43] Dirk Klees: Lets hope then that it happens…it would be a big relief for everyone. After all these dark months, i would like to be able to deliver some good news to our merchants.
[11:43] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Others need to have other issues addressed as well.
[11:43] Rene Erlanger: Shery….you cna read the minutes of this Office Hour later on…..it will help some
[11:43] Dennis Lagan: they didnt Talarus, they are still “thinking” about that. (for over 1.5 years)
[11:43] Jack Linden: 4 per core is the usual measure for homesteads.
[11:43] Luna Cartier: Jack exactly what groups are you overseeing now?
[11:43] Joshe Darkstone: well that means there are lots of people disturbed by that particular issue i guess
[11:43] Sonya Haight: what about the region pricing Jack? when will we see a blog post?
[11:43] Talarus Luan: Oh really? What happened to the move to 3 per core?
[11:43] Shila Szondi: JACK there were conversations last month in the CIG group and sl merchants about the use of m/m boards. A member had his account suspended for using them, saying it was gaming traffic. Does this mean every m/m board must be removed?
[11:44] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Yes it does, Jack, but….there are others patiently waiting a turn.
[11:44] Melody Regent: I would like to know that as well Shila, are they gaming and not allowed?
[11:44] Dennis Lagan: jack, Openspaces are 4 per core as well, despite that you keep teeling people that they are for light use… how so, with the same amount/core there shouldn’t be any difference.
[11:44] Jack Linden: Luna, post reorg and the company changes, I’m still on the Product side and have picked up search, commerce, aspects of viewer, and a range of other pieces. I’m still involved with Land for example
[11:44] Talarus Luan: It’s an open Q&A format. Just ask your question.
[11:45] Rene Erlanger: Jack – Does traffic impact Search rankings. I understand Picks won’t any longer
[11:45] Luna Cartier: ok, just would help to know what questions to ask you , or go elsewhere for info. Might blog about what you do.
[11:45] Jack Linden: Sonya, blog post soon on that. I know we want to get folks some assurance around that and it is due
[11:45] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Okay, you are still involved with land. When is Delby going to be here to discuss the bulk buying issue?
[11:46] Uni Ninetails: Yes, what of bulk buying tiers etc
[11:46] Jack Linden: Rene, yes it does have an impact
[11:46] Lim Catteneo: judging by the search results now, it’s totaly random
[11:46] Lady Sakai: AND the buddy tier issue ?
[11:46] Ciaran Laval: Jack this search i seriously borked, roll it back
[11:46] Zep Palen: Jack I will repeat my question::”Jack what will then be considered as keyword spamming? I mean my business name is in all my products”
[11:46] Lim Catteneo: it is beyond broken
[11:46] Pamela Galli: [11:43] Shila Szondi: JACK there were conversations last month in the CIG group and sl merchants about the use of m/m boards. A member had his account suspended for using them, saying it was gaming traffic. Does this mean every m/m board must be removed?
[11:46] Jack Linden: Hopefully next week APinkSwan
[11:46] Medhue Simoni: Yes, roll it back Jack
[11:46] Whitestag Gothly: Again once LL knows the issue they will persue it as they wish no sence in beating it to death weeks on end it wont change the direction they will take on it per their business, best to touch on other topics that might be usefull also to others in SL lets say those that might not use the search engins as much as other but also have issues that effect them and alot of others
[11:46] Jolee Baxton: I’m getting ready to put out a new AD and I need to know if I should leave out most keywords. I see other places with plently of keywords at the top
[11:47] Jack Linden: Ciaran, lets let it settle – it only just went live. Take a look at it tomorrow.
[11:47] Medhue Simoni: Jack this is not a game
[11:47] Medhue Simoni: this is our lives
[11:47] Joshe Darkstone: yes, guidance on keyword usuage would be a good thing, specific guidance, i preface each items name with the category its in, so i can track it in spreadsheets
[11:47] Ciaran Laval: I have multiple parcels simply not appearing
[11:47] Medhue Simoni: and we have waited 135 damn days
[11:47] Charlene Trudeau: we really need a knowledgebase entry that lists the things we are not permitted to do to ‘game’ traffic. If a decision is made on a new product that article should be updtated immediately to reflect it so the rest know
[11:47] Driftwood Miles: we have two listings for the one parcel!!!
[11:47] Jack Linden: Zep, repeating the same words over and over would be obvious spamming, as would using words that are not relevant to the store/location
[11:47] Jolee Baxton: Not a game, at all
[11:47] Sonya Haight: Zep, mine is on all of mine too, I’ve been trying to uncheck a full sim of objects marked show in search
[11:47] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Jack, and Delby is the only one who can speak to the bulk buying issue?
[11:48] Joshe Darkstone: jack, repeating then in different show in search products?
[11:48] Lim Catteneo: LL has interesting notioins of “relevance” and “improved search”
[11:48] Joshe Darkstone: like trees, they ar eall called tree for instance
[11:48] Jack Linden: Charlene, there is a search guidelines wikipage.
[11:48] Jolee Baxton: Thank you but then why are some that have more keywords than others at the top?
[11:48] Dennis Lagan: jack, just like homesteads, Openspaces are 4 per core as well, despite that you keep telling people that they are for light use, compared to homesteads. with the same amount/core there shouldn’t be any difference. Can you explain?
[11:48] Melody Regent: Speaking of Bulk Jack, everyone has been waiting to see what the Bulk Deal is for land. We thought we would see it last week. I know we are all wondering about it. I also know that you have a few other ‘programs’ out there for large estate owners. When will you also make those programs public as well so that people know what kind of benefits are available to them if they continue to grow and get larger. It would seem to me that the more you talk about the perks you get, the more people might want to grow.
[11:48] Zep Palen: Jack..thats not working. You cant pusnish a business for having their name in the products they are creating
[11:48] Serra Anansi: so a designer with their store name in the product is considered spamming?!?!
[11:48] Jack Linden: Just as with google or any search engine, there is only so much detail we can give
[11:48] Talarus Luan: What, you mean parcel entries with “ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ……..” are obvious spamming? <.<
[11:48] Linux Rootcreeper: oh lordy
[11:48] Joshe Darkstone: its not very specific jack
[11:48] Jack Linden: Dennis,
[11:49] Jack Linden: Is the specific question, why they have the same cpu ratio?
[11:49] Joshe Darkstone: ok, can you just answer if that spamming is a matter of repeating the word in the same place? can i call 10 trees trees?
[11:49] Whitestag Gothly: Yes jack where is my 20 homesteads for 55 usd a month teir : P
[11:49] Jolee Baxton: How about, rent land, rental land, land rentals?
[11:49] Uni Ninetails: Jack is having my business name in the title of products shown on search ging to bugger me up? forest and floor over 300 times -_- need some answers please.
[11:49] Dennis Lagan: yes jack
[11:49] Ardy Lay: Talarus, once per ZYNGO machine. How many they have?
[11:49] Jack Linden: Hehe yes Tal
[11:49] Ciaran Laval: Jack some of it’s simple, are people going to be punished for repeating a word too many times in their land description, will they be punished for having their store name in every object.
[11:49] Lim Catteneo: I have my store name in every product on sale, hundreds of them
[11:49] Uni Ninetails: answer jack not just me asking…
[11:49] Talarus Luan: So, about that so-called “gambling ban”… >.>
[11:49] Pamela Galli: I have info about LaGalleria in descriptions
[11:50] Charlene Trudeau: and I think we should ahve store name in every product, that’s *relevant*
[11:50] Charlene Trudeau: but fake boxes that are set for sale to spam shouldn’t be
[11:50] Joshe Darkstone: i have my sales categorys in every item – 1000s of them
[11:50] Ciaran Laval: It’s good marketing Charlene, it makes perfect sense to do that
[11:50] Charlene Trudeau: er, set to show in search, shouldn’t be
[11:50] Jack Linden: Dennis, the product spec, is what drives the value and what we charge. Agreed that they share the same hardware, but pricing isn’t based upon that, it’s based on the product itself. Openspaces have fewer prims/agents, therefore they are cheaper
[11:50] Dirk Klees: i hope the search engine knows to make a difference between store names in the objects (appears one time and is ok) and objects containing the same word or kind of words over and over again (spam, not ok, punished)
[11:51] Jack Linden: Ciaran, potentially yes. People should avoid repeating the same words over and over
[11:51] Linux Rootcreeper: I would imagine it does Dirk
[11:51] Zep Palen: Jack…that wont work
[11:51] Uni Ninetails: oh for fu….
[11:51] Equinox Pinion: 20 USD less for 3000 prims less jack….what value is that??
[11:51] Serra Anansi: BRANDING isnt SPAM
[11:51] Sonya Haight: yep Joshe me too, it helps to add the category to the name, that along with my store name means I have to uncheck everything on the sim
[11:51] Dirk Klees: That’s a statement i’ll frame and put on my wall, thanks jack for clarifying this
[11:51] Dennis Lagan: jack, your explenation clearly says in the wiki that its for light use cause they run with 4 per Core. Either way you change that or you change the homesteads per core.
[11:51] Uni Ninetails: JESUS H CHRIST MONKEYS JACK
[11:51] Lim Catteneo: Jack, but that’s bull, people put their brand name in the product, thjat’s how it works
[11:51] Zep Palen: That would force me to change all my similar products into completely different names
[11:51] Luna Cartier: Did the GSA v6 come with a user manual?
[11:52] Joshe Darkstone: jack when you say avoid using the same word over and over, do you mean tha tusing the same word in multiple show in search items os a problem?
[11:52] Jolee Baxton: Why is it that I see other places with more keywords than I have at the top?
[11:52] Driftwood Miles: Lke I said a Nuclear Bomb to Crack a nut
[11:52] Joshe Darkstone: can 20 different trees have the word tree in them?
[11:52] Shila Szondi: JACK there were conversations last month in the CIG group and sl merchants about the use of m/m boards. A member had his account suspended for using them, saying it was gaming traffic. Does this mean every m/m board must be removed?
[11:52] Charlene Trudeau: I think he means a description that says ‘fashion fashion fashion fashion fashion fashion ‘
[11:52] Dennis Lagan: “Openspaces are intended for very low-impact use only. They share 4 CPUs per server, and support a limited number of objects.” this information is totally misleading.
[11:52] Serra Anansi: Branding is NOT spam… this is seriously an issue
[11:52] Jack Linden: No Joshe, i’m talking about within one description
[11:52] Joshe Darkstone: or do we have to call them tall bushy things with bark
[11:52] Luna Cartier: Vendors are going to have to uncheck everything for search and use boxes with keywords to make sure they are not bunished for “branding” their items.
[11:52] Zep Palen: Please give us an answer on: “Will having your business name in all products be considered as spam?”
[11:52] Joshe Darkstone: ah
[11:52] Dirk Klees: agree @charlene
[11:52] Joshe Darkstone: thanks you, thats a big help
[11:53] Uni Ninetails: so ive got 565 products with Forest floor in it. im shit out of luck Jack? im getting angry. and i dont often get angry.
[11:53] Zep Palen: ok..think I got it now
[11:53] Joshe Darkstone: uni, no
[11:53] Talarus Luan: That’s what I meant from my “ZYNGO…” reference.
[11:53] Joshe Darkstone: read his last answer to my question please
[11:53] Whitestag Gothly: Might help a bit also if you dont call a tree (sofiex35.7)
[11:53] Uni Ninetails: ack sorry, things wonky. *reads back
[11:53] Uni Ninetails: ahaha phew
[11:53] Jack Linden: Serra, my understanding is that you don’t need to repeat the brand ahead of every item. Search will find it if the brand and object name both appear in the description even if they are not next to each other.
[11:53] Melody Regent: Jack, maybe have someone that can answer these questions with solid definate answers should have a meeting on this… not that you ‘say; you have the search working better
[11:53] Dirk Klees: i’ve followed a case in the jira where a texture designer was concerned that just because all of her products are textures and her object names contain “Texture” she would be punished…from what i understood here today i think that shouldn’t be a problem for her
[11:53] Jack Linden: But i’ll ask the team whether we can be more definitive on the guidance wikipage
[11:54] Pamela Galli: To me keyword spam = words that have nothing to do with the store
[11:54] Joshe Darkstone: yes, thats all the specificity we need i think jack, it was very confusing
[11:54] Lim Catteneo: Jack, but we do want our products to contain our brand name
[11:54] Rene Erlanger: Jack – If you have a single product business….lets say Skins…….are they going to be punished? It’s obvious the word skins will be used for all the different tones and series…..but its valid. I mean how many alterantive ways can you describe the word “SKINS”….not many all. Are these type of businesses goping to suffer under your new format. Bare in mind there are tons of Single product businesses
[11:54] Linux Rootcreeper: @_@
[11:54] Pamela Galli: If the words describe the parcel’s merchandise, fine
[11:54] Ardy Lay: I am gonna get me a little parcel, name it Object, and put 117 Objects on it all set to show in search and see what happens.
[11:54] Jolee Baxton: still doesn’t know how to word my AD
[11:54] Luna Cartier: But once a userbuys something, you want your store name on the product.
[11:54] Melody Regent: Let us know Ardy
[11:54] Ardy Lay: Heh
[11:54] Joshe Darkstone: well to me keyword spamming is repeating the same keyword over and over in the same place (as well, but i did it, like most, because you have to do what works
[11:54] Pamela Galli: It’s like Xstreet — the spam is not the description
[11:55] Lady Sakai: Jack, We do that to help customers sort through their inventory easier … I have *B* in front of each description … will I now get punished for Branding / helping people ??
[11:55] Pamela Galli: it is the off-topic words
[11:55] Lisa – Regent Land Bot: LandMark giver at MLCC (Regent Estates Home Office) has just been used by Poko Modan !
[11:55] Shila Szondi: JACK there were conversations last month in the CIG group and sl merchants about the use of m/m boards. A member had his account suspended for using them, saying it was gaming traffic. Does this mean every m/m board must be removed?
[11:55] Ciaran Laval: “Object” doesn’t get indexed, or it never used to
[11:55] Talarus Luan: Keyword spam also means spamming the same word over and over again in the same line/block of text. It’s an OLLLLLLLD way to game search engines that doesn’t work on newer ones.
[11:55] Sonya Haight: right Joshe, thats what I did last and it worked for one parcel, not for the other
[11:55] Bronson Blackadder: it would also be nice to see Mainstores show up FIRST before listings for affiliates in malls
[11:55] Ardy Lay: Ciaran, okay. I’ll use another name.
[11:55] APinkSwan Beauchamp: I would actually like to know the answer to Shila’s question as well. It’s been asked numerous times now.
[11:55] Melody Regent: ***** [11:55] Shila Szondi: JACK there were conversations last month in the CIG group and sl merchants about the use of m/m boards. A member had his account suspended for using them, saying it was gaming traffic. Does this mean every m/m board must be removed? *****
[11:55] Joshe Darkstone: it would be nice if we had a leywords section for parcels in addition to a description, so that the keywords determine relevance, and we could deescribe our stores properly
[11:55] Jack Linden: Rene, I understand what you’re saying but I <skin> <type> would still find it even if the two were not a phrase in the description.
[11:55] Jack Linden: Shila, m/m board?
[11:55] Sonya Haight: Shila is talking about the Midnight Mania boards mentioned last week
[11:55] Charlene Trudeau: REne, but the one prdocut box shouldn’t say ‘aurora skin – skintastic skin skin’ with the description line being ‘skin skin skin skin skin skin skin skin skin skin…..’. If they use a normal product name that includes ‘skin’ and their store name, and has a normal description ‘high fashion, shiny glowy skin with detailed makeup and optional landing strip’ they’re fine
[11:56] Joshe Darkstone: your gsa6 would allow oyu to tag that keywords area for parsing and ignore the rest
[11:56] Lady Sakai: MM = Midnight Mania
[11:56] Shila Szondi: yes lucky chairs and M/m boards, where you click to get products
[11:56] Belle Bartlett: MM boards are also being used to give out stolen content from creators …so I have a reason for not liking them to begin with
[11:56] Jolee Baxton: So this is spam: land for rent land rental land for rent land rentals rent land Buy land rent land to rent land rentals beachfront land for rent buy Island buy land buy
[11:56] Serra Anansi dies
[11:56] Jack Linden: Oh those. Yeah.. it depends on the usage I expect. That sits with the governance folks in support – if they took action then presumably they felt there was a violation there
[11:56] Joshe Darkstone: asked and answered last week – as i recall jack has no visibility on that issue
[11:56] Uni Ninetails gets the defib kit
[11:57] Jack Linden: I can’t really speak to that one as I don’t know the case
[11:57] Joshe Darkstone: er, week before
[11:57] Lady Sakai: so we go to the Govenance OH for that ?
[11:57] Dirk Klees: exactly @ Jolee…..and i remember that the last month, some people using this way of spamming dominated the search results without interruption
[11:57] Talarus Luan: So, Jack, how about those microparcels?
[11:57] Melody Regent: Jack, that needs to be defined… are they gaming or not?
[11:57] Dirk Klees: months*
[11:57] Melody Regent laughs
[11:57] Shila Szondi: yes define please
[11:57] Lady Sakai: yay Talus lol
[11:57] Uni Ninetails: Tal: rent em to tinys as fullsims XD
[11:57] Equinox Pinion: yes tal!!
[11:57] Jack Linden: Lady, if you specifically have a support query about those then yes, you should talk to the support team
[11:57] Roberto Villosum: folks, please… let get real. There is a whole world of information about RL keywording about almost anything. Most fo the good search engines use “primary” and “secondary” keywords, choosen by the one that does the keywording. Its all a matter of make good use of those rules, separate the types of keywording and penalize the badly done. There are photography acencies out there that handle BILLIONS of pictures and they need to be properly keyworded, with the right priorities and all or …. they just wont sell. ANd im not talking microstock, imtalking Getty Images and National Geographic to mention two. And basicaly what they have under the hood is just a GOOD management of commercially available search engines.
[11:57] Lady Sakai: ok thanks
[11:58] Melody Regent: the little lego men, how many can we fit on a micro parcel
[11:58] Melody Regent: hahah
[11:58] Talarus Luan: I would, but tinies tend to make up for their size in prim usages, and 3 prims just won’t cut it.
[11:58] AnnMarie Otoole: OMG Jack you’re in the wrong room. Debates are next door, this is the Abuse room.
[11:58] Joshe Darkstone: marketing = gaming – its all about gaming, you only need a tv to know that
[11:58] Luna Cartier: lol, Roberto, you assume LL has setup the GSA properly and know how to configure it.
[11:58] Rene Erlanger: i understand that charlenes…..but what a bout Tan skin, fair skin, asian skin tone, caribbean skin tone, mocha skin tone, japanese skin tone, Fair skin tone, creme skin tone…………..<—–is that really spamming. I think not, as they are valid products being sold and correct descriptons
[11:58] Lady Sakai dont have a tv, LL wants to much tier
[11:59] Pamela Galli: not spam Rene
[11:59] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Jack, before the hour ends. Do you have any other updates on other topics?
[11:59] Roberto Villosum: Luna, i just assume that if i spend good money for a product i buy, i expect it to do its job
[11:59] Medhue Simoni: Jack test the search, then consider rolling it back to the previous broken 1, believe me it was better
[11:59] Jack Linden: okay, it’s time for me to zip to my next meeting. thanks all for coming along this week
[11:59] Linux Rootcreeper: poor Jack
[11:59] Jack Linden: I know it’s tough right now and i appreciate you guys giving your feedback
[11:59] Equinox Pinion: bye jack
[11:59] Ciaran Laval: Well if this is fully indexed my sims are being excluded
[11:59] Tasia Tonic: Tell Sea it is broken big time :/
[11:59] Talarus Luan: Awww.. you ignored my question.
[11:59] Lady Sakai: TO MUC TIER Jack .. get the hint there .. *hint hint *
[11:59] Jack Linden waves!
[11:59] Uni Ninetails: bai
[11:59] Qie Niangao: thanks Jack
[11:59] Medhue Simoni: and how about instead of ditching picks, you just fix it.
[11:59] Melody Regent: Lady, he already said no refunds, and you think they will lower tier?
[11:59] Lady Sakai: cheers jack
[12:00] Joshe Darkstone: my understanding is they got a black box and really have spent the last couple months trying to figure out how it is supposed to work