Jack Linden Meeting July 7th, 2010
[11:01] Lady Sakai: Jack
[11:01] Equinox Pinion: hi jack
[11:01] xstorm Radek: Jack what the hell has happen to mainland full sim support ?
[11:01] Jayson Dorn: Hi Jack
[11:01] Lady Sakai: wow xstorm lol
[11:01] Valentino Tendaze: Hello
[11:02] Jack Linden: hey everyone
[11:02] Bronson Blackadder: and Hello Jack 
[11:02] Evelle Jarvinen: hello
[11:02] Uni Ninetails: Hullo
[11:02] Bitsy Giano: hiya
[11:02] Alliez Mysterio: Hi Jack
[11:02] xstorm Radek: the Ontyne are a bad joke that i am about to abuse report for no support from a so called support group !
[11:02] Jack Linden: okays, let’s get this kicked off. I’ve some news re. Search that I’d like to start with
[11:03] Valentino Tendaze hopes it’s good
[11:03] Jack Linden: This will also go out as a blog post shortly..
[11:03] xstorm Radek: Jack why not bring back Leo Linden then some of the sim mess will be fix ?
[11:04] Lady Sakai: Leo hasnt stoped working yet xstorm …
[11:04] Alliez Mysterio: Leo is gone?
[11:04] xstorm Radek: he is gone
[11:04] Lady Sakai: he will finish on July 9
[11:04] Sonya Haight: not yet
[11:04] Chaos Ametza: leo is still here
[11:04] Jack Linden: So.. Late last week we pushed an update for search that addressed some of the big problems we’ve been having there.. unfortunately we hit a load issue so rather than have search operate badly we rolled the changes back so that we can address that problem.
[11:04] Fly-Bangle de Lux 2.1: All Go
[11:04] Jack Linden: We have a plan and fix, and so the search fixes will go back out, we hope, in a week or so.
[11:04] Ciaran Laval: Rather than have search operate badly????? lol
[11:04] Dennis Lagan: great news, you screwed it up once again
[11:05] Alliez Mysterio: I said it would not be in June
[11:05] Rene Erlanger: back to waht?
[11:05] Lady Sakai: Ciaran… did you pick up on that one also ? LOL
[11:05] Miles Beck high fives Ciaran
[11:05] Uni Ninetails: Suck it and see dinnae work Jack… thought you guys learned that.
[11:05] Lady Sakai: oh Jack that was just fuuuuunny
[11:05] Zoha Boa: Jack, are we allowed to pay the tier of our sims also in a week or so ?
[11:05] Rene Erlanger: it hsn’t been working since 1st April……..3 months ago
[11:05] Equinox Pinion: i really dont get it jack…why does it take so long to fix it…are you aware how people are suffering from it?
[11:05] Sonya Haight: so what you’re saying is you want us to wait some more?
[11:05] Jack Linden: Yeah, it sucks. We had a team pushing incredibly hard to get it through but it didn’t quite work out. Search is top of our list so we’re now pushing hard to go out again very soon
[11:06] Sonya Haight: its past sucks Jack, you’re killing us, we have no options left
[11:06] Dennis Lagan: you are pushing hard for months, so that doesn’t mean anything
[11:06] Zoha Boa: Jack, when can we expect to have a compensation of LL for all lost sales because of YOUR service not working
[11:06] Rene Erlanger: 3 months?????? that’s pushing hard???
[11:06] Patnad Babii: incredible really this is the kind of stuff that should have been fixed 3 months ago
[11:06] Equinox Pinion: did you ever think about getting help from professional outside LL??
[11:06] Chaos Ametza: bulk price update jack
[11:06] Alexxa Despres: OMG!! OMG!! OMG!!!! I can NOT beleive this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[11:06] Alexxa Despres: (en->it) OMG! OMG! OMG!! Non posso credere !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[11:06] xstorm Radek: Jack what team so far i have seen many teams short handed do to them dumb layoffs some one did
[11:07] Jack Linden: We want these fixes out asap too. We know it’s horrible. This was just one of those issues that we couldn’t have stayed live with. It needed to be fixed
[11:07] Alexxa Despres: you are rolling it back to a week ago when it STILL didn’t work?
[11:07] Sonya Haight: I agree with Zoha, so our tiers aren’t due until search is fixed right?
[11:07] Bitsy Giano: Jack is it ok to address a few concerns about the marketplace beta at this meeting?
[11:07] Alexxa Despres: so we can look forward to…. disappearing from SEARCH all over again…
[11:07] Valentino Tendaze: Good try Sonya
[11:07] Alexxa Despres: ????
[11:07] Lady Sakai: that would mean they owe us for three months Sonya .. Im IN !
[11:07] Alliez Mysterio: OK Jack its been 3 months now, can we expect compensation for this?
[11:07] Jack Linden: Alexxa, we alrady rolled it backk. The fixed code was pushed briefly, then we saw the problem and immediately rolled back
[11:07] Sonya Haight: only makes sense VAlentina, how are we supposed to pay our tier when they’ve killed our businesses?
[11:08] Lady Sakai: Rolled back to WHEN .. Jack ?
[11:08] Dennis Lagan: “fixed code” lol
[11:08] Sonya Haight: sorry Valentino*
[11:08] xstorm Radek: Jack first off you need better Testing groups and better testing tools what they seems to be working with is out dated data systems
[11:08] Flight Band: All Go
[11:08] Valentino Tendaze:
[11:08] Timo Yalin: hi
[11:08] Jack Linden: Lady, just rolled back from that update. So effectively the search update of late last week didn’t happen.
[11:08] Jack Linden: It’ll go out soon though
[11:08] Zoha Boa: Jack, it isn’t OUR problem that LL can’t fix search. When will you give a compensation because of the mistakes YOU make ?
[11:09] Equinox Pinion: i agree zoha
[11:09] Lady Sakai: thats funny enough NOT what I hear around .. Seach hasnt been working or three Months
[11:09] xstorm Radek: i think Jack has me muted
[11:09] Valentino Tendaze: Since V2 came out
[11:09] Valentino Tendaze: end of February
[11:09] Rene Erlanger: Jack, I’m not sure how many hours you work per day…whether its 8hr day or 10 hrs or 12 hrs……but if you spent just 1 hour a day reading your own forums, you’d be fully aware of some of the main issues in SL. There are umpteen related threads about SEARCH….has been since April. Businesses are folding, people downsizing, people selling off sims…some even abandoning. It can’t be good for LL bottom line either
[11:10] Lady Sakai: when will LL start seeing sense and can the V2 AND the seach untill you can get ti to Work ??
[11:10] Valentino Tendaze agrees with Rene. It’s not just a few, it’s many
[11:10] Sonya Haight: it was May 3rd for this specific search update that busted it for everyone though Valentino
[11:10] Rene Erlanger: now..that;s doing your job properly
[11:11] Jack Linden: Rene, I am painfully aware of the search issues. We live them every day just as you guys do. That is why we have been pushing so hard to get some big fixes into place. Ideally last weeks update would have held, saldy, we hit a problem. We will get this fixed just as quickly as we can
[11:11] xstorm Radek: Second Life 2.1.0 (206371) Jun 25 2010 14:14:51 (Second Life Beta Viewer) works better then 1.xx has ever worked
[11:11] Ciaran Laval: Sure Sonya, but the bug was reported April 2nd on the Jira, the May update should never have happened
[11:11] Jack Linden: I wanted to come along today and make sure that folks knew the situation. We’ll also be blogging so folks know what is going on
[11:11] Equinox Pinion: Jack, you removed the land listings from the new marketplace! What will you do next…reclaim our sims?? We generate more than 80% of your revenue and you keep treat us like crap!
[11:11] Liisa Runo: it starts to seem that pushing hard is not enough. Maybe LL should hire more staff and then push hard?
[11:11] Zoha Boa: Jack, blogging about it does not pay our tier
[11:11] Bitsy Giano: Jack bottom line from where i sit is with the search issues I have started relying very heavily on xstreet advertising. Now seeing the new beta, home page ads gone, people would have to scroll though 100s if not 1000s of ads. I’m concerned that as a marketing tool is gone too….
[11:12] Alliez Mysterio: Did I miss the blog about bulk buying?
[11:12] Uni Ninetails: Jack your running out of bullet time dear. People are asking about compensation.
[11:12] Bitsy Giano: yes there are banners which take them a week to post if your lucky and buried now at bottom of page
[11:12] Jack Linden: Hey Equinox, I think I answered you on this in email.. Marketplace is a Beta, so by definition it is not complete.
[11:12] Ikonn Giano: Jack…. Why is LL pushing intentionally pushing sim owners out? Now that we all helped pay for servers you don’t need us? I mean you raised price got rid of forum advertising released your own homes, more main land and now there is no land in the market place. Oh and search!
[11:12] xstorm Radek: Jack will people that own a full mainland sim get ignored by Support now ?
[11:12] Jack Linden: So yes, some things didn’t make it in. We’re aware of those missing items.
[11:12] Sonya Haight: true Ciaran
[11:12] Bitsy Giano: what are we supposed to do if our only good marketing tool is killed like this?
[11:12] Rene Erlanger: You ever consider that just maybe GSA 6 is over eleaborate for a game like SL. ike Phil Deakins mentioned accruately….trying to fit a square peg into a round hole……maybe….maybe GSA 5 engine was alll you need , but with better optimisation at your end. eg,Keyword spamming
[11:13] Equinox Pinion: yes but Grant told me there will be no land listings in the new one after the old one disappears
[11:13] Jayson Dorn: Jack, can you give us some basics as to why you can’t get search fixed. I believe you guys want this fixed as much as we do. All this name calling and bitching people are doing solves nothing but it is hard to swallow when it has been so long and we, or at leat I, don’t understand why it is such a large hurddle to overcome?
[11:13] Ikonn Giano: How convenient everything that helps sim owners never makes it in
[11:13] Equinox Pinion: how should we be able to run a business in sl when you take all advertising options from us away and search is a mess for 3 months?
[11:13] Jack Linden: Ikonn, we’re obviously not trying to damage estates, that would make absolutely no sense. We know we have some things to address and we will
[11:14] xstorm Radek: search is out dated and need better software engine
[11:14] Uni Ninetails: Jack, no bullshit YOU ARE DAMAGING ESTATES.
[11:14] Dennis Lagan: Jack, will the current land listing section at Xstreet stay? It has a separate entry in the secondlife website menu under the shopping menu, and could continue to opperate without the rest of xstreet.
[11:14] Equinox Pinion: agree 100% uni!
[11:14] Ikonn Giano: I for one have seen an alarming number of estates being sold over the last couple weeks
[11:14] xstorm Radek: i think Uni is right
[11:15] Equinox Pinion: no it will go away dennis…grant answered me in the blog
[11:15] Equinox Pinion: grant: Land Listings on Xstreet are going to be retired when Xstreet is retired. There are plans to add the feature to the new Marketplace, however, I do not think we will be able to get the new land listing feature built before we retire the Xstreet version.
[11:15] xstorm Radek: but they are not only doing it to one group of sim owners but all sim owners
[11:15] Equinox Pinion: we know what “plans” mean by now at LL
[11:15] Dennis Lagan: Lindenlab diserves bankrupcy, i hope for another 100 lay offs next year at least.
[11:16] Jack Linden: Rene, I think that’s a fair question. We believe it *is* applicable, but it is also *different* in the way it handles relevance. Bugs aside for a moment, folks that are searching have been finding relevant results more quickly than ever. But we also see there are problems, so we’re working hard on that
[11:16] Bitsy Giano: ok being nasty won’t fix this
[11:16] Jack Linden: Ikonn, the number of estates going delinquent hasn’t increased recently.
[11:17] Driftwood Miles: It will soon Jack
[11:17] Jack Linden: Thanks dennis.
[11:17] xstorm Radek: i feel many of us are getting ignored so i had it im not going to sit at a meeting that has no face
[11:17] Dennis Lagan: yw
[11:17] Equinox Pinion: yes but people selling sims did jack…many think about moving on
[11:17] Chaley May: finding relevant results is great when ou know what you want… no so good for finding new things
[11:17] Bitsy Giano: Jack is there any chance that they will reconsider pullling home page ads on the new marketplace?
[11:17] Driftwood Miles: Glad to hear everything is so Rosy in Linden Land
[11:17] Bitsy Giano: and will search on that be working, right now it doesn’t seem to be
[11:18] Valentino Tendaze: I don’t understand how you can say people are finding relevant results – all they’re finding is Traffic gamers
[11:18] Ikonn Giano: maybe not delinquent but people are selling them off a lot more have sim transfers not gone up?
[11:18] Equinox Pinion: agree ikoon
[11:18] Uni Ninetails: nods
[11:18] Equinox Pinion: ikonn sorry
[11:18] Jack Linden: Equinox, no doubt it’s a concern.. definitely. As I’ve said, we know there are issues we have to fix and we are moving as quickly as we can to fix them
[11:18] Equinox Pinion: you can get a full sim by now for 100 usd from others jack…shouldnt that tell you something?
[11:18] Jack Linden: Bitsy, what do you mean?
[11:18] Dytska Vieria: The problem is you fix one thing and break two more.
[11:18] Ciaran Laval: Just roll back to GSA 5, it’s far from perfect but for goodness sake, it works to a better degree than this mess
[11:19] Miles Beck: I agree with Valentino…with all due respect, I don’t understand the “relevent results” comment, Jack.
[11:19] Bitsy Giano: ok looking at the beta
[11:19] Bitsy Giano: the ads that are there don’t pop up they will all be scroll to find
[11:19] Miles Beck: *relevant
[11:19] Driftwood Miles: Totally Agreed Ciaran
[11:19] Valentino Tendaze: Agrees with Ciaran – V5 woudl be better
[11:19] Bitsy Giano: people don’t dig for random ads what benefits us is that they pop up
[11:19] Bitsy Giano: so the one recourse we had around search being gone….
[11:19] Jack Linden: Valentino, as per the search guidance we put out, the latest search actually penalises for keyword misuse, so in fact that isn’t the case – it may seem so, but in fact it’s been improving
[11:19] Bitsy Giano: I’m concerned
[11:20] Bitsy Giano: combine that with the banners being buried at bottom which historically is not effective on any web site
[11:20] Sonya Haight: I’ve been penalized for using keywords of the items I sell then
[11:20] Valentino Tendaze: Not keyword spam – traffic gaming. Certainly on my keyword phrases anyway
[11:20] Patnad Babii: one of the issue i see frequently is LL is lacking test before pushing something out, why dont they allow some people to `Live`on the beta grid.. and get more testing done..
[11:20] Dennis Lagan: Jack, you haved been saying here a thousand times that you were going to work at a better land listing system trough the new marketplace, so where is it? now you come to tell us that you may include it one day, but in the meantime are removing it completely? what kind of fools do you think we are?
[11:20] Bitsy Giano: so I’m concerned about this change
[11:21] Jack Linden: Bitsy, I’ll pass that feedback on
[11:21] Bitsy Giano: ty I appreciate that
[11:21] Ciaran Laval: Define keyword misuse Jack, that’s another concern people have, they will be penalised for describing what they sell in that small description box
[11:21] Sonya Haight: and for soem reason ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO is more relevant than I am since I’m not in that 1000 listings
[11:22] Valentino Tendaze: I search for ‘gift shop’ and there are Malls at #2 ad #3 and a Garden shop at #4…
[11:22] Jack Linden: Patnad, that is why we have a Beta marketplace. For testing in a production environment. It’s also why we rana beta of Linden Homes, Havok and so on. With Search it’s alittle different because of the way it’s so integral. We crawl millions of items and that’s hard to beta test
[11:22] Ikonn Giano: Jack… Can we get clarification on posting in the commerce forum for stores, land and homes? People who provide these are providing a service
[11:22] Valentino Tendaze: (Searching without using quotes, like all of our customers do)
[11:23] Jack Linden: Ciaran, I’m really talking about repeat words, or stuffing tons of words into the description that are not relevant to the location
[11:23] Jack Linden: GSA6 is more tuned to handle that
[11:23] Dennis Lagan: Jack, you haved been saying here a thousand times that you were going to work at a better land listing system trough the new marketplace, so where is it? now you come to tell us that you may include it one day, but in the meantime are removing it completely? whats your excuse? you knew exactly the time you told us that noone was working at it…
[11:23] Sonya Haight: it doesnt’ matter what you put Ciaran, I’ve tried it all, normal keywords, spamming keywords, unchecking a full sim worth of “Show in search” stuff, nothing works. I’m about to hop on that “they are only letting their favorites up top” bandwagon
[11:23] Jack Linden: Good and accurate keyword use will get better results than adding hundreds of words
[11:23] Patnad Babii: yeah but what if you had 10 000 resident on beta grid, you could have predicted that kind of issue ahead.
[11:23] Ciaran Laval: There’s only so many ways to describe a shoe Jack
[11:24] Jack Linden: Dennis, the new Marketplace is a Beta. It;s not final. We want feedback and we need to test it in a production environment. So it’s now live. Please don’t assume that a Beta is the finished product.
[11:24] Jack Linden: We know there are items missing
[11:24] Equinox Pinion: Jack, you promised us to give us details about bulk purchases today…what are they?
[11:24] Dennis Lagan: we have nothing to test jack
[11:24] Dennis Lagan: nothing
[11:24] Sonya Haight: thats bull Jack, the only parcel I can get to show is one that has the same keywords repeated over and over
[11:25] Wyn Nitely: Will it have the 2week beta period that V2 had?
[11:25] Sonya Haight: even that hasn’t helped a 65,000 sqm parcel though
[11:25] Driftwood Miles: Hearing you there Sonya For some they appear regardless for others…zip
[11:25] Jack Linden: Patnad, we’ve never had that kind of load on beta grid. It would be great if we could do that, but it hasn’t been the case. There aren’t other folk doing this in this way that we can point to for examples either which makes it harder.
[11:25] Alexxa Despres: AGREED Sonya.!
[11:25] Bitsy Giano: Jack chaos crashed and I know he had a question for you regarding bulk land discounts when and what the deal is on that
[11:26] Jack Linden: Wyn, no, it’ll be beta until it’s ready.
[11:26] Uni Ninetails: Ohh yes havent heard anything new on Bulk land.
[11:26] Equinox Pinion: we all do bitsy
[11:26] Dennis Lagan: Jack, that means we may safely assume that you will be adding the classifieds for land to the marketplace before the end of the beta period? If its not gonna be then, it will never be.
[11:26] Chaley May: i would like to know about bulk land.. its new to me
[11:26] Driftwood Miles: Like V2 Jack?
[11:26] Lady Sakai: we are waiting on some explenaion on that one Jack .. as you said last week
[11:26] Bitsy Giano: not me so much but he’s my landlord 
[11:26] Bitsy Giano: although I sure wouldn’t mind that passed down 
[11:27] Patnad Babii: give away some free land on beta grid, you’ll see it will add it some load and some test will be more efficient
[11:27] Jack Linden: Yeah Uni, that’s still on our list. Should have somethng soon for folks on that
[11:27] Equinox Pinion: wait….bulk purchases are still on your list??
[11:27] APinkSwan Beauchamp: You have Delby here to discuss today, correct?
[11:27] Zoha Boa: JAck, can you confirm here that the marketplace will not go out of beta before we have a land listing ?
[11:27] Equinox Pinion: zoha…grant said it will
[11:28] Miles Beck: Regarding keywords: Some repetition is necessary for searching in the Places tab. If I remove ‘birthday card’ and leave ‘birthday cards’ in my description, then the omitted one won’t show up in Places. Customers use singular and plural when they type search terms. I don’t want to be redundant with keywords, and I know All Search is more important, but some customers use Places.
[11:28] Sonya Haight: thats true Miles
[11:28] Valentino Tendaze agrees with Miles
[11:28] Jack Linden: Dennis, we’re planning the next phase now; we’ll be fixing issues raised by the beta and looking at what was scoped out. I actually think we can do better than the land listings as they have been in xstreet, so I’m more interested in providing better listings for land on the new marketplace than just reinventing the same ones. But we’ll talk more about that through the beta
[11:29] Driftwood Miles: whats the timeline for fixing Search please Jack?
[11:29] Milano Ferrentino: Jack. Compounding the financial hit caused by the search issue is the fact that the shift in exchange rate has knocked about three percentage points off of what for many of us in the land business is al already very narrow profit margin. Please discuss the exchange rate issue before the hour is over.
[11:29] Dennis Lagan: jack , you always talk about better, but we are in fact facing no listings anymore at all for a certain period at least!
[11:29] Ciaran Laval: Miles to be fair, GSA 6 should sort that out with keyword stemming and mean card and cards both get found, what’s more of a concern is if you get penalised for repetition for birthday cards, christmas cards, anniversary cards, etc. for repeating cards.
[11:29] Khamon Fate: Jack when are you gonna replace this huge Corsica sign with something that doesn’t say “coming soon?”
[11:29] Jack Linden: Driftwood, I think we’re currently targeting the end of the first week of July
[11:29] Equinox Pinion: Jack…did you say the bulk purchases are still on your list?
[11:30] Jack Linden: We’ll have to see how it goes. But that’s the aim
[11:30] Zoha Boa: end of the first week of july..that’s TOMORROW jack !!
[11:30] Driftwood Miles: ok thank you
[11:30] Jack Linden: Khamon, you don’t like my retro sign?
[11:30] Khamon Fate: Love It! But it might confuse teh newbies.
[11:30] Lady Sakai: Im still confused Jack .. regarding the bulk issue …. is that going to PURCHASE or TIER discounts ?
[11:30] Rene Erlanger: If you search for “kid skins”….you get a ton of Adult skins supliers….how does this help the consumer? It’s a nonsense!!
[11:30] Jack Linden: Equinox, I said that yes. When we have guidance for bulk purchasing we will blog about that.
[11:31] Sonya Haight: nifty they chose the day my tier was due
[11:31] APinkSwan Beauchamp: I thought you said you would have Delby here to discuss bulk purchases this week?
[11:31] Zoha Boa: YOu said that Delby Linden will be here today to talk about it, not that you are going to make one day a blog post about it
[11:31] Jack Linden: Hehe Zoha, not tomorrow. In a week or so is the goal.
[11:31] Equinox Pinion: geeez…you promised it to us last week…then this week
[11:31] Equinox Pinion: and now it is on a list???
[11:31] Equinox Pinion: how hard is it to communicate that?
[11:31] Jack Linden: June kinda flew by. been an intense month
[11:32] Serra Anansi: you can say that again, jack
[11:32] Sonya Haight: not for us, we just sit around on our unvisited empty sims, no reason to build
[11:32] Jack Linden: I did APinkSwan, unfortunately that wasn’t possible. Still the plan though. Better that she join us when we have some real numbers to talk about. So we’ll try again for next week
[11:32] Patnad Babii: Intense maybe but LL didnt release anything *working*
[11:32] AnnMarie Otoole: Any idea when Michael will be back? No SLDPW tickets processed for a month.
[11:33] Driftwood Miles: Busy week coming up
[11:33] Sonya Haight: so Delby is not coming to talk to us about bulk pricing Jack?
[11:33] Jack Linden: They all are Driftwood.
[11:33] Lady Sakai: BUT you DO have real numbers Jack .. Anches business gets them .. whats the confusion part for you on that ??
[11:33] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Some real numbers. Okay, that’s interesting…lol
[11:33] Jack Linden: Sonya, as I said above, sadly not this week. We’ll try for next week.
[11:33] Sonya Haight: oops that was slow, ignore that
[11:33] Zoha Boa: Jack, in less then 6 months it is 2011. When will you make the announcement of the prices for 2011?
[11:33] Driftwood Miles: I have no doubt…sadly little enjoyment
[11:33] Equinox Pinion: it is on his list zoha!
[11:34] Uni Ninetails: Big fucking list >.>
[11:34] Zoha Boa: must be a looong list, equinox
[11:34] Equinox Pinion: it gets longer and longer as they dont get ANYTHING off it!
[11:34] Rene Erlanger: the “To do” List….that’s shoved at the bottom of someone’s draw!
[11:34] Jack Linden: It’s not a small list, very true. Zoha, that is due in July. We’re on that.
[11:34] Dennis Lagan: jack, how about hiring 30% more staff? it looks like you can’t managbe on your own.
[11:35] Uni Ninetails: ouxh
[11:35] Liisa Runo: indeed
[11:35] Zoha Boa: Or fire every day an extra linden for each day that search isn’t fixed
[11:35] Patnad Babii: yea and in May it was supposed to be fixed in june, in june its supposed to be fixed in july.. we all know the song
[11:35] APinkSwan Beauchamp: I think this is what upsets many, Jack. Even a simple thing like having a person here to discuss or at least listen to us about the bulk pricing can’t be done when it was supposed to be done.
[11:36] Jack Linden: Dennis, as you know we’ve just been through a significant period of change, so we are re-organising around that. We have to concentrate down to make sure we’re not still stretched across too many areas.
[11:36] Dennis Lagan: i’m following your hours for 2.5 years now jack, it has always been a terrible mess
[11:36] Patnad Babii: we asking you 1 thing and 1 thing only FIX THE DARN SEARCH for god`s sake
[11:36] Rene Erlanger: Why can’t you be honest….and say that you can’t fix Search, rather than offer false promises and false hope.
[11:36] Equinox Pinion: I do understand that jack! been in it myself…but your priorities are just so damm wrong
[11:36] Khamon Fate: Good Heavens, y’all sound like you have nothing else to but add bulk listings to a beta site.
[11:37] Equinox Pinion: you are still out of touch with us and dont know what is important for us!
[11:37] Alliez Mysterio: I say hire back the 30% laid off and cut some other place, maybe salaries for a time
[11:37] Liisa Runo: could you atleast stretch to taking care of support tickets? before the layoffs i always got the ticket solved in 2 hours, now ticket has been unread for 3 days already
[11:37] Lady Sakai: Jack .. its very simple … you either 1. Lower the tier prices to a reasonable amount across the board .. or … 2.- Tell a certain Estate that they can no longer get Buddy Tier pricing ….
[11:37] Lady Sakai: see… very simple
[11:37] Jack Linden: Dennis, sorry you feel that way. I do office hours because I think it’s important that we keep communicating, even when things are broken as they are now. I hope folks still find this useful.
[11:37] Sonya Haight: ask Google for a refund on this piece of junk and use that to pay the other with?
[11:37] Ciaran Laval: Lower tier would be one hell of a positive and lower tier by a mile for Openspaces, they’d be useful if they weren’t so expensive
[11:37] AnnMarie Otoole: 3 days, you lucky bastard, I’ve had tickets sitting over a month.
[11:38] Khamon Fate: Lady, you forgot 3. Ignore me til I go away
[11:38] Equinox Pinion: it takes an hour meeting to discuss the bulk purchases and get the info to us…how hard can that be?
[11:38] Driftwood Miles: we are all paying 30 lindens a pop per week to …er………em…show? in search 
[11:38] Lady Sakai: he can ignore ll he wants .. Im not budging Khamon lol
[11:38] Ikonn Giano: buddy tier priceing? lol
[11:38] Rene Erlanger: You know Search has been borked for 3 months……..so what does LL do, they offer you Voice Morphing for 750 L per mth…..talk about priorities! rofl
[11:38] Khamon Fate: As long as you don’t budge, you’re continuing to pay tier, so no problem.
[11:38] Alexxa Despres: LOL rene
[11:38] Equinox Pinion: agree rene!!!
[11:39] Patnad Babii: Rene +++++
[11:39] Lady Sakai: wait .. Rene .. they have to PAY for the voice thing ????
[11:39] Dolly Heart: Lowering Tier across the board would seem to be a pertinant and healthy move right now
[11:39] Alexxa Despres: <<wonders how I will sound as MAN… saying : SEARCH DOES NOT WORK!
[11:39] Driftwood Miles: Hey you can’t make any sales…but Hey YOU CAN SPEAK LIKE A MONSTER!!!
[11:39] Equinox Pinion: LOL alexxa
[11:39] APinkSwan Beauchamp agrees with Dolly
[11:39] Dennis Lagan: despite that i think lindenlab is one of the only companies you can reach higher positioned people easy, it feels like you don’t listen at all. well, after that time, its just no feeling, its a fact. this hours are just kind of a therapy “we spoke with jack linden, he may listen one day”
[11:39] Lady Sakai: LOWER tier Jack .. would help EVERYONE in world … you dont have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out
[11:40] Dolly Heart: lowering tier somewhat may help invigorate the economy and improve land sales and occupancy
[11:40] Sonya Haight: any time line on when the July pricing might be ready Jack?
[11:40] Jack Linden: Equinox, if it were really that simple we would have done it. Obviously we have to be clear on the impact of any pricing decisions, not just now but for the next year or two. we have to ensure we can support delivering bulk purchases, which can’t be done in the land store. We have to be aware of the impact on account managers, and be sure that what we offer is fair and attractive to as many estates as possible.
[11:40] Lady Sakai: I suck at math even I can see the reasonable in that
[11:40] Jack Linden: When we give out pricing guidance we have to make sure it’s correct.
[11:40] Equinox Pinion: you need just a spreadsheet model for it…and a good finance controller!
[11:40] Dennis Lagan: but you did it with dreamland, how did that work?
[11:40] Equinox Pinion: i can do that in an hour for you!!
[11:41] Uni Ninetails: OK soo how much discussion has been made on bulk pricing? hours? days?
[11:41] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Not sure about EVERYONE, but it isn’t the purchase pricing on bulk buying, it’s the reduced tier I don’t like.
[11:41] Driftwood Miles: Jack you talk about all these precautions that you HAVE to take to ensure that you don’t cause problems occur for residents and yourselves…WTHhappened with search????
[11:41] Charlene Trudeau: Ageed, AP
[11:41] Charlene Trudeau: agreed
[11:41] Khamon Fate: No Lady, you don’t, lower tier will increase server demand and likely cause an influx of new users. Linden Lab may not be prepared to support that kind of grid growth.
[11:41] Alexxa Despres: Agreed 100 % APS
[11:41] Lady Sakai: Jack .. for the love of god .. we are NOT concerned about bulk PURCHASES .. we are talking of the DISCOUNTED TIER
[11:41] Jack Linden: Well Dennis, again that’s kinda disappointing. We do listen, and we do react to what we hear. We don’t always get it right, and we don’t always have the resources to do as much as we’d like. But we do listen.
[11:41] Equinox Pinion: and it is not something new…you already gave bulk purchase discounts away and tier reductions….we just want the same option
[11:41] Driftwood Miles: Reducing Tier for ANY individual or buying number would be a disaster to SL
[11:42] Charlene Trudeau: sorry, Uni
[11:42] Patnad Babii: it seem very easy to give out prices to some big estate owner when they buy in bulk, why is it so complicated when it come down to us
[11:42] Dolly Heart: purchase price has no effect any more because of the second hand market. Lowering tier would be healthy for the economy and land ownership
[11:42] Driftwood Miles: in reference to Bulk Buy
[11:42] Uni Ninetails: np ^^
[11:42] Jayson Dorn: Lady just because you aren’t concerned with it doesn’t mean many of us aren’t
[11:42] Driftwood Miles: You would end up with a monopoly and a chase to the bottom…No choice and lower quality
[11:42] Sonya Haight: Dolly is right, it would even up the field a bit too.
[11:42] Dennis Lagan: when did you react? give us examples of what WE reached trough your office hours. i only know one really, thats putting up the land forum, but thats just getting back something that went, not really an improvment.
[11:43] Equinox Pinion: they gave lower tier away dolly
[11:43] Equinox Pinion: but only to their “buddies”
[11:43] Lady Sakai: bulk buy ? .. that is understandable Jayson .. not discounted tier on the other hand .. that just messes up the internal compertition completely
[11:43] Charlene Trudeau: discounted tier is just wrong, esp since the rest of us are stressing losing GF on homesteads and maybe fulls at the end of the year
[11:43] Alliez Mysterio: Well it was done
[11:43] Bitsy Giano: Jack can you define whats considered bulk by LL?
[11:43] Charlene Trudeau: why should ours go away so others can get it?
[11:43] Jack Linden: Driftwood.. let be clear, there are multiple issues with search and they get conflated. We have a few bugs, one of which is particularly bad. A fix for that is imminent. We have a different relevance algorithm, which isn’t *broken*, but it is different. it’s much more dynamic and reacts more to search behaviour than before. We also have more sensitivity to over-use of keywords, and that means some people are not where they expect to be.
[11:44] Jack Linden: On top of that, we have UI issues in Viewer 2 that need addressing.
[11:44] Sonya Haight: we’re running out of time and haven’t even got to these new thrown in play as you go policies about Midnight Mania boards and Lucky chairs and bannings.
[11:44] Jack Linden: So it’s a bunch of stuff, and we’re committed to fixing it all.
[11:44] Lady Sakai: yea I forgot about that one also Sonya
[11:44] Ciaran Laval: Huh? What lucky chairs and bannings?
[11:45] Lady Sakai: someone got banned for using lucky chairs
[11:45] Sonya Haight: seems Midnight Mania boards and Lucky Chairs are banning offenses now
[11:45] Ciaran Laval: Behave
[11:45] Khamon Fate: Who here is using Viewer 2?
[11:45] Dolly Heart: Jack it doesn’t matter what you fix. If you don’t lower tier people can’t afford to play SL and have the full experience and own land
[11:45] Khamon Fate: not me
[11:45] Milano Ferrentino: Lowering tier would be an excellent economic stimulu, something sorely needed in the SL land economy right now. We have had to repeatedly lower what we charge tenants in order to remain even marginally competitive, and this has taken an additional major hit by the exchange rate.
[11:45] Ikonn Giano: maybe stop trying to do so many things at one and priorities what you already got on your plate
[11:45] Charlene Trudeau: UI problems are a huge issue, Jack, as is new player retention, but if you keep losing merchants, including major merchants, you aren’t going to have anything left for people to be retained for
[11:46] Jack Linden: Ikonn, that is exactly where we are. We are doing that and in part, that is why we went through the org changes
[11:46] Lady Sakai: and IF Ll is concerned about the influx of land raise the purchase price then
[11:46] Charlene Trudeau: Search should be one of the topmost priorities
[11:46] Rene Erlanger: What are LL future plans as to increasing the user numbers….i.e growing the grid…….all i have seen during last 3 months are receding concurrency. Are there any plans to market SL…….at least across the Internet?
[11:46] Jack Linden: Charlene, search *is* one of the topmost priorities.
[11:47] Charlene Trudeau: and if they are worried about influx of land, Lady, then bulk pruchase discounts is sort of self-defeating
[11:47] Ardy Lay: Jack, how much of the mainland territory is held by LL and is that where you want to be?
[11:47] Jayson Dorn: personally I don’t want tiers lowered. Everytime there is a change in land pricing or tier structure everybody scrambles again to redo their business model to fit but giving someone the opportunity to just be able to get a better pricing then the rest of us is just wrong
[11:47] Charlene Trudeau: thanks for that, Jack
[11:47] Equinox Pinion: is ONE of the topmost priorities???? it should be the ONE only priority you have
[11:47] Ciaran Laval: Jack with search, cut the talk and fix it, three damn months now
[11:47] Jack Linden: Rene, that would be more a question for the marketing team, but we certainly accept our role in bringing in new residents. It’s crucial that we do that
[11:47] Charlene Trudeau: its a huge concern when I have people who are trying to hang onto their store properties and limp along and having to give up their home properties
[11:47] Charlene Trudeau: or just quitting entirely
[11:47] Driftwood Miles: Jack your talk of the unbroken part of Search is just not true. Keyword stuffing is all over the place and not being affected by the “Broken” part. I have done enough tests on this search to know and be able to prove it is totally borked and does not work
[11:48] Ciaran Laval: So are they saying lucky chairs and midnight mania boards are traffic gaming?
[11:48] Lady Sakai: true that Charlene .. maybe that is why they keep that trinket for buddies
[11:48] Jack Linden: Ardy, I don’t have exact numbers with me but I can tell you that it hasn’t changed much over time. The proportion of Linden owned mainland is about the same each month.
[11:48] Sonya Haight: yes Ciaran and some one in cig was banned for it
[11:48] Bitsy Giano: well yeh but on the offset it views to many items on lot with say the word cave or waterfall as keyword stuffing….
[11:48] Bitsy Giano: and thats not if all you build is caves
[11:48] Equinox Pinion: no it did increase Jack…abandon land on mainland increased by about 14%!!
[11:48] Bitsy Giano: they are named caves because they are caves
[11:49] Jack Linden: Driftwood, if you want to drop me examples I can repro, that would be great. i can forward them to the team
[11:49] Sonya Haight: they told him MM boards and Lucky Chairs were not allowed if he had that parcel listed show in search, and removed them and banned him
[11:49] Ciaran Laval: Ah right, what next, you have a nice build and your gaming because people stay to have a look? THis is silly
[11:49] Bitsy Giano: so that is a fine line detecting what is spamming search and what is legit
[11:49] Driftwood Miles: Sure Jack we have sent examples several times but of course I will send them to you.
[11:50] Ikonn Giano: I think it would just be nice to see LL do something the helps the sim owners for once because with out all the tier we pay there would be a SL. You guys keep converting everything to LL and your bottom dollar if your really concerned about estate owners how getting the that help us. The only think i keep seeing is us loosing ways to get customers, advertise and promote our estates
[11:50] Dennis Lagan: the problem of bringing new users to SL already sits in its name. Second Life, not to many discuss that in their “first life”, its separate. (just tink of all the people cheating their partner in here, they wil lnot tell the family or friends) Missing free Mouth to Mouth messaging for your product is a real drama.
[11:50] Rene Erlanger: Jack….are you aware how HUGEEEEE the problem is regarding SEARCH. I mean the volume of businesses that complain about it…..not just Content providers with shops, but also Clubs, mall owners, estates etc etc It’s there in black and white on forums, shopping groups, blog sites…..places are closing up!
[11:51] Ikonn Giano: I mean we cant even post about our estates in the forums with out our post being removed with no reason or nothing
[11:51] Jack Linden: Rene, of course we are. It’s critical.
[11:51] Sonya Haight: doesnt’ seem critical from our point of view, we’re losing our sims Jack
[11:51] Khamon Fate: Search was critical enough for me to give my homestead back to Pituca and returned to the Mainland.
[11:52] Sonya Haight: and LL is doing nothing to help us with that either
[11:52] Khamon Fate: Iz a Taberite again.
[11:52] Sonya Haight: they caused the problem but we get to suffer for it
[11:52] Lady Sakai: Dennis.. the way we have been treated the last couple of years dont encourae us to advertise for them at all .. even us that dont differ between SL and RL
[11:52] Dolly Heart: Please Jack … tell us that LL are considering lowering tier to stimulate the system and re-energise SL. I don’t see what else will help the current stagnation
[11:52] Jack Linden: Sonya, yeah I appreciate it’s rough. There isn’t an easy way to let you guys see how hard the search team are pushing, but I can only keep repeating that we totally agree and are doing all we can to address it
[11:53] Ikonn Giano: I agree Dolly
[11:53] Lady Sakai: I agree Dolly … Jack do please see sense on this
[11:53] Flight Band: All Go
[11:53] Dytska Vieria: or come up with some new incentives to stay.
[11:53] Sonya Haight: Dolly I believe even when they do blog the July Price thing it will be for next Jan.
[11:53] Khamon Fate: Who at the Lab determines tier prices Jack?
[11:53] Dolly Heart: the system needs stimulus NOW
[11:53] Bronson Blackadder: th BOD
[11:53] Jack Linden: Dolly, we’re constantly reviewing things like pricing.
[11:53] Equinox Pinion: i agree dolly..but they will not do it..they are even so stubborn to keep the homeseads at 125 usd which estates cannot pay for
[11:53] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Who at the lab made THAT deal?…lol
[11:53] Dennis Lagan: only up, not down lol
[11:54] Lady Sakai: yea considering how to make us pay more is more like it jack
[11:54] Dolly Heart: marvelous to hear that Jack !!
[11:54] Ikonn Giano: its time for action
[11:54] Dolly Heart: yes agreed Ikonn
[11:54] Jack Linden: Khamon, it’s no single person. The company has various senior staff that own responsibility for areas of the business.
[11:54] Equinox Pinion: dolly come to these meetings every week..and you will not say that in 6 months lol
[11:54] Sonya Haight: any word on the mm boards and lucky chairs Jack, people want to know if all avenues of drawing people to their businesses are closed for them?
[11:55] Khamon Fate: yeah that’s a problem, lack of accountability for specific business areas
[11:55] Khamon Fate: Philip needs to fix that
[11:55] Dolly Heart: lowering tier costs would perhaps have the same effect as lowering interest rates in RL during this world crisis
[11:55] Khamon Fate: while he’s CEO
[11:55] Jack Linden: Sonya, I don’t know much about mm boards i’m afraid.
[11:55] Ikonn Giano: should bring Phil to one of these meetings
[11:55] Zoha Boa: lowering tier will not bring more money in SL or more new users. they have a fixed budget.
[11:55] Lady Sakai: Yea Ikonn .. Jack tell Philip to come along next week
[11:56] Ciaran Laval: It’s the traffic gaming policy Jack, its being applied badly
[11:56] Khamon Fate: Oh that would be fun, bring Philip to an office hour ha hah a
[11:56] Equinox Pinion: good idea lady! can you invite philip to one of the meetings jack?
[11:56] Ikonn Giano: well how about a TV commercial to bring in more money and users you already got a good video put it on the TV
[11:56] Jack Linden: Khamon, I didn;t say there wasn’t accountability. There is. I’m just saying that for significant changes such as pricing, it would be something that senior leaders and the execs would agree on.
[11:56] Sonya Haight: you put a free item in it, people come back and click it, if enough come by and click it in one day then it gives a free item to everyone that clicked
[11:56] Driftwood Miles: The only thing that will stimulate the economy is more people..the market is stagnant at the moment
[11:56] Equinox Pinion: and if you say now you will put it on your list..i will do it on my own!
[11:56] Rene Erlanger: Given how crapola GSA 6 is…not just the bugs, but also the kind of non-releavant search results being returned on any 2 or 3 keyword phrase……you’d have been better off returning back to GSA 5 and continue beta testing GSA 6 elsewhere…..maybe the Teen Grid as its a much smaller enviroment. Is Phil aware of the SEARCH problems…..or is he busy in his “Love Machine”??
[11:56] Lady Sakai: I promise I wont snog him untill after the meeting Jack .. Il be good
[11:56] Khamon Fate: Yes but I don’t see why you should take the brunt of the “requests” when these guys could be emailing other people involved in the decision.
[11:57] Bitsy Giano: lol not a chance they are trusting us to behave
[11:57] Equinox Pinion: ok..i promise to me nice too if philips shows up just get him to the meeting
[11:57] Jack Linden: Rene, all of are very aware of the search issues. Philip too.
[11:57] Jack Linden: *of us
[11:57] Alliez Mysterio: They dont want that Khamon as I was told a few weeks ago
[11:57] Jack Linden: Hehe Lady
[11:57] Lady Sakai: hearing it from the staff at LL is one thing Jack .. hearing it from us is another
[11:58] Equinox Pinion: agree lady!
[11:58] Ikonn Giano: yes exactly
[11:58] Khamon Fate: Oh they do too, any company says “for information or to express concerns about foo, person, number, person, email, et cetera”
[11:58] Lady Sakai: if ya wanna know how hay tastes .. ask the bloody horse
[11:58] Lady Sakai: not the trainer
[11:58] Sonya Haight: so we have no fixed search, no july pricing, no answer on lucky chairs and mm boards and no bundled discounts on sims? what about meshes?
[11:58] Dolly Heart: http://www.metaverse-business.com/regionmonth.php ….. this graph shows the effect of the Oct 2008 price rise on land ownership and SL still hasn’t recovered. Please show this graph to the execs Jack
[11:58] APinkSwan Beauchamp: lol Sonya
[11:59] Alliez Mysterio: No, I suggested ppl write to M and board members and was told no
[11:59] Dennis Lagan: well, the pricing for the themed sims went down. but the builds are sadly poor. why not working with some serious builders, like luna bliss, providing their setups optionally. And she has more choice then just 4 setups, even with a few percent taxes on the designs you will get much more revenue then what you get for this few poor builds of your own.
[11:59] Khamon Fate: Jack you should post to SLU cause we talk about you over there.
[11:59] Khamon Fate: mostly in a good way
[11:59] Jack Linden: So guys, I have to head out in a moment. Do you guys still get value out of these office hours? I want to keep being responsive but it seems some folks find this office hour less useful.
[11:59] Jack Linden: Thoughts?
[11:59] Sonya Haight: no no you didn’t answer Meshes, somebody grab the rope!
[11:59] Ciaran Laval: If you think we’re letting you duck out of these thing again!
[11:59] Equinox Pinion: they are very frustrating jack!
[11:59] Ikonn Giano: Jack I will give you kudos for these meetings you are a brave man for dealing with all of us upset estate owners… Maybe Phil should come with you some time.
[11:59] Dennis Lagan: i think sl doesn’t wor k properly to have meetings with 30 people. an email list works better.
[11:59] Equinox Pinion: nothing happends
[11:59] Driftwood Miles: Office hours are very impotant Jack and appreciated…regardless of how heated they can get
[12:00] Jack Linden: SLU Khamon? Hmm
[12:00] Jayson Dorn: yes Jack, still want the office hours
[12:00] Chaley May: These office hours just remind people every week at how bad LL is at getting things done
[12:00] Khamon Fate: Have you thought about opening a group, in addition to office hours, where people could chat stuff that you could read and/or repsond to over time?
[12:00] Rene Erlanger: Yes Jack…these OH are very useful……..but Action would also be useful too
[12:00] Sonya Haight: we need somebody to scream at
[12:00] Uni Ninetails: Jack you are being asked question week in week out, and not coming back with answers. You have a full week to get them.
[12:00] Miles Beck: I agree with Driftwood and others above: office hours are very helpful (and not just for venting).
[12:00] Liisa Runo: OH’s are important, we feel lot better talking with LL face to face than to only cry in forum/file a jira/send tickets
[12:00] Khamon Fate: I mean group chat kinda sorta sometimes doesn’t work, but it’s an idea I had.
[12:00] Equinox Pinion: we really need to see actions jack
[12:01] Equinox Pinion: i can take alot..but i tell you i am close to give up and get a city at blu mars!
[12:01] Khamon Fate: Yeah well I didn’t have tests graded for class today because the department is two people short this week. They’ll just have to wait.
[12:01] Drongle McMahon: Are they useful to you, Jack?
[12:01] Milano Ferrentino: The hour is running out, Jack, and unless I missed it there still has not been one word from you about the exchange rate. I know you and others in SL management have basically explained it on the basis of supply/demand market forces. I understand markets and shifting exchange rates, but I also understand issues of money supply, etc. It is had to explain how order imbalance alone could lhave kept the “sell L$” rate at around 360-361 for more than a year and then, after a few days of chaos, is settling in at 266-267.
[12:01] Chaley May: i think i am yet to see a problem solved for anything thats ever been brought up here
[12:01] Driftwood Miles: we would be neighbours Equi
[12:01] Jack Linden: Okay, well good. I actually appreciate that you guys do come along and are always honest.
[12:01] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Question is….Do you find them useful, Jack and can you continue to stand the pressure we sometimes put upon you?…:))
[12:01] Equinox Pinion: great drift
[12:02] Rene Erlanger: we appreciate you attending these OH’s Jack
[12:02] Lady Sakai: Il come to Drift .. but only if you wear a skirt :p
[12:02] Jack Linden: I find them invaluable actually. I take a lot of what I hear into discussions inside the Lab, and it helps me to advocate for the right things.
[12:02] Punchie Gumbo: don’t forget about the search Jack
[12:02] Equinox Pinion: lol lady lol
[12:02] Driftwood Miles: lol Lady
[12:02] Milano Ferrentino: It is difficult not to suspect that this has been deliberate market manipulation by the “federal reserve” of SL.
[12:02] Jayson Dorn: the exchange rate would bounce back quickly if people would just stop trying sell at 1 linden under market so they get their money instantly
[12:02] Sonya Haight: do they listen to you Jack?
[12:02] Driftwood Miles: Search please Jack
[12:02] Ikonn Giano: Tier!!
[12:03] Equinox Pinion: I really give you credit that you take all the crap from us Jack….but make things happend
[12:03] Jack Linden: Anyways, I’d best run. Another meeting now. Take care everyone!