Jack Linden Office hours – June 24, 2010
These logs were taken by Motor Loon
[11:05] Jack Linden: hey everyone!
[11:05] Equinox Pinion: hi jack!
[11:05] Nema Galicia: hiya Jack
[11:05] Ardy Lay: Hi Jack!
[11:05] Southern Riptide: heyas jack
[11:05] Patnad Babii: hey jack!
[11:05] Serra Anansi: Hello Jack 
[11:05] Vanity Bonetto: hello Jack
[11:05] Master Kane: welcome jackster
[11:05] Lady Sakai: in case you missed it jack .. we are over the moon happy today LOL
[11:05] Jack Linden: one sec while everything rezzes in
[11:05] Rene Erlanger: hi Jack
[11:05] Sammy Hermit: Hello Jack 1st time ive seen a linden
[11:05] Alliez Mysterio: HI Jack
[11:05] Bronson Blackadder: JACK!!! hey!!!!!!!
[11:05] Alliez Mysterio: Great to see your name
[11:06] Vanity Bonetto: all drunk already …. *hicks
[11:06] Jack Linden: hey sammy! they say you never forget your first
[11:06] Nema Galicia: oh no Sammy has stars
[11:06] Master Kane: ok wheres he at.. i need to get in listening distance
[11:06] Jack Linden:
[11:06] Master Kane: ah got him
[11:06] Equinox Pinion: you will have an easy office hour jack…we are all pretty excited
[11:06] Selina Greene smiles
[11:06] Jack Linden: really equinox? did something big happen?
[11:06] Slee Mayo: pfft
[11:06] Alliez Mysterio: over bys his sign for office hours
[11:06] Southern Riptide: lol
[11:06] Sera Lok: we still want search fixed tho 
[11:06] Zoha Boa: lol jack
[11:06] Liisa Runo: Jack, today we are super happy, so we try to be gentle with you, even though we know you can handle tricky stuff
[11:06] Equinox Pinion: ohh…you missed it lol
[11:06] Patnad Babii: M linden stepping down that a big thing!
[11:06] Imaze Rhiano: anyone have club and stream where we can party?
[11:06] Patnad Babii: and phil is back to the lab!
[11:07] Sera Lok: .
[11:07] Lady Sakai: BEST news EVER !! LOL
[11:07] Master Kane: thats small equix… i think that was his intention
[11:07] Annie Obscure: whoot! LOL
[11:07] Sammy Hermit: lindens look same as us just a bit smaller
[11:07] Annie Obscure: now lets see what he does about hte layoffs
[11:07] Zoha Boa: and most of them don’t look as good as we
[11:07] Master Kane: the BIG is that Phill is back
[11:07] Jack Linden: Okays, so a few quick updates on previous items if i may..
[11:07] APinkSwan Beauchamp: With you on that, MK!!
[11:08] Master Kane:
[11:08] Equinox Pinion: you are allowed to do anything today jack
[11:08] Lady Sakai: hush Zoha .. you look like good ol Ruthie today lol
[11:08] Zoha Boa: haha lady
[11:08] Techwolf Lupindo: Jack, start a party here now.
[11:08] Imaze Rhiano: P is creative leader – I hope that is good man to job – but at least he should be better than M was
[11:08] Master Kane: ut oh here comes the tier raises
[11:08] Lady Sakai: partay time 
[11:08] Rene Erlanger: Jack. Has the supposed SEARCH fixes been applied.?
You said in your previous OH meeting, it would be due on 23rd/24th June. It’s absolutely criminal that LL have taken 2 months to dilly dallying around…..in that time (if you’re not aware already), numerous of SL Businesses have gone to the wall. Too little , too late. You should not have introduced GSA 6 not in beta form….it’s too critical an instrument to be experimenting with!
[11:09] Jack Linden: first of all.. we’re working on giving you folks some guidance on bulk discounting for islands. I’m hoping that my colleague, Delby Linden will join us for this office hour next week and she will be heavily involved in getting that information to you
[11:09] Jack Linden: One second rene.. have some updates i need o do first
[11:09] Jack Linden: *to
[11:09] Equinox Pinion: thats great news too!
[11:09] Jack Linden: So please be warm and welcoming as only you can, to Delby Linden next week.
[11:09] Nema Galicia: she needs to hae a beatr and information or no she cant be here
[11:09] Lady Sakai: well that takes care of the bulk BUYING .. but Ill wait and jump Delby next week LOL
[11:09] Jack Linden: Next up search..
[11:09] Master Kane: sure w will jack… we like being warm and welcoming
[11:09] Zoha Boa: who’s delby ? function?
[11:09] Master Kane: sure we ….*
[11:10] Lady Sakai: woo Joshe lol
[11:10] Jack Linden: As I type this the final parts of the search update are going out. This includes fixing the droped parcel bug, improved relevance and various other goodness.
[11:10] Jack Linden: *dropped
[11:10] Sammy Hermit: great news Jack
[11:10] Lady Sakai: we will smooch her and then jump her .. hows that Kack ?
[11:10] Uni Ninetails: yays
[11:10] Lady Sakai: Jack even
[11:10] Sera Lok: so exdpect changes today or tomorrow then?
[11:10] Joshe Darkstone: can you elaborate on the dropped parcel bug?
[11:10] Sera Lok: for the search?
[11:10] Master Kane: Ill take videos lady
[11:11] Master Kane: ya know for utube
[11:11] Jack Linden: Lady, a little over warm perhaps but thanks
[11:11] Joshe Darkstone: and who are we humping?
[11:11] Lady Sakai: be sure to price em high MK
[11:11] Jack Linden: So.. we expect search to be looking better over the next few days. One thing to make very clear though..
[11:11] Patnad Babii: goodness
[11:11] Master Kane: nah.. got to get a feel for her first and then decide
[11:12] zazen Manbi: …. SL2 is going to be completely overhauled???
[11:12] zazen Manbi: huh…. please?
[11:12] Adamburp Adamczyk: or hopefully binned altogether?
[11:12] Sera Lok: yes please announce 2.0 is going away. haha.
[11:12] Selina Greene: yes – please get rid of it
[11:12] Master Kane: agree there sere
[11:12] Jack Linden: the new update continues our push to make listings more relevant.. one part of that is that parcels that are using keyword stuffing… that is hurling many words, often not even associated with the parcel, into the description – will find themselves ranked lower.
[11:12] Lady Sakai: hey Motor
[11:12] Equinox Pinion: or going into beta again
[11:12] Liisa Runo: i hear a rumour that client 3.0 will be cool
[11:12] zazen Manbi: like web on a prim that anyone can change to a porn site….
[11:12] Sera Lok: but they wil appear *somewhere* right?
[11:12] Jack Linden: So it will be crucial that you use keywords that are accurate
[11:12] Master Kane: hey there vroom vroom )
[11:13] Silken Wilder nods
[11:13] Motor Loon: ey everybody, sorry I’m fashionably late – sunshine and great day for bike riding so I didnt wanna hurry home
[11:13] Sera Lok: as in, parcels would be penalized, not totally excluded, correct?
[11:13] Jack Linden: Most of the folks finding it tough with the new search are using too many keywords
[11:13] Selina Greene: how can you know that keywords are accurate without a manual search of the place?
[11:13] Sammy Hermit: i have a hair shop so main words i can use are hair
[11:13] Jack Linden: Sera, correct
[11:13] Sera Lok: but if a page is totally excluded, you can assume that it’s messed
[11:13] Master Kane: so instead of trying.. bedroom furniture.. we would use bedroom
[11:13] Rene Erlanger: so if you only sell shoes……would that be considered keyword stuffing,,,,when every 2nd or 3rd term might have the word Shoe or shoes in them.
[11:13] Silken Wilder: I don’t keyword spam my parcels and they dont show….
[11:13] Poppet McGimsie: is there a place we can read about proper construction of keywords, and where to put them?
[11:13] Sera Lok: great to hear, i hope these changes come SOON 
[11:13] Jack Linden: So if you throw ‘free, freebie, free stuff, it’s free, yes it’s free’ all into the description.. not so good
[11:14] Sera Lok: particularly that Pg/mature/adult bug
[11:14] Jack Linden: Rene, you won’t need to repeat the word shoe. In fact, probably better not to
[11:14] Zoha Boa: change it into “not free, not free stuff, no, it’s not free..thenn you are good ?
[11:14] Selina Greene: lol
[11:14] Jack Linden: okay those were the main updates.
[11:15] Jack Linden: who has something specific for us to discuss?
[11:15] Miles Beck: Jack, when I eliminated keyword redundancies, such as “birthday card” and “birthday cards” by including only one of those, my store dropped out of Places search for the one I dropped. It’s forcing us to include those redundancies. Will that change?
[11:15] Sera Lok: well once the bugs are fixed we can actually start to optimize better.. (i hope..)
[11:15] Alliez Mysterio: Jack, could someone blog for us on just what is wanted for keywords
[11:15] Equinox Pinion: i do…will the uk beat germany lol
[11:15] Alliez Mysterio: Would prob help us all a lot
[11:15] Jack Linden: Miles, you shouldn’t need to add it more than once
[11:15] Lady Sakai: oh for petes sake Jack .. Ive been good .. stop crashing me plzzzzz
[11:15] Poppet McGimsie: in places search though?
[11:15] Sammy Hermit: England will win
[11:15] Miles Beck: But Jack, it dropped out of Places
[11:15] Alliez Mysterio: Give us guide lines
[11:15] Jack Linden: Oh also.. the new search update will show changes much more quickly. In less than a day
[11:16] Liisa Runo: sounds good Jack, now tell us if you know more about the “step down” of M. is he totally gone? or if still around, is he still doing damage? or something usefull like cleaning sandboxes?
[11:16] Alliez Mysterio: so all will see it and not complain
[11:16] Sera Lok: not 12-48 hours?
[11:16] Jack Linden: So refining will be easier
[11:16] Jayson Dorn: that’s good news
[11:16] Sera Lok: more like, how often?
[11:16] Rene Erlanger: well how many different vairations of the word shoe could you possibly have? It penalises all those businesses that sell single type products…like hair or skins or whatever and favours the Walmart style shop
[11:16] Sammy Hermit: so all missing land will now show up
[11:16] Motor Loon: lol Liisa
[11:16] Jack Linden: Alliez, there is a guidelines wikipage all about good search practice. will try to find the link when i have a second
[11:17] Sera Lok: is there any indication viewer 2.0 could be rescinded?
[11:17] Sera Lok: lol
[11:17] zazen Manbi: yes please?
[11:17] Alliez Mysterio: k
[11:17] Master Kane: yea that includes words of things that you dont even make OR sell too alliez lo
[11:17] Selina Greene: or at least the 2.0 UI
[11:17] Jack Linden: Sera – so, but we will extend 1.23 indefinitely whilst we work on it
[11:17] Alliez Mysterio: lol
[11:17] Joshe Darkstone: i wouldnt be being so quiet but today seems to be my day to take calls :/
[11:17] Master Kane:
[11:17] Poppet McGimsie: Jack do you have any sense that tier and other land policy will be revisited under the new management?
[11:17] Sera Lok: Good, the bugs are unbearable for people who spend way too much time here
[11:18] APinkSwan Beauchamp agrees with Sera
[11:18] Lady Sakai: and where does the kissing line form … the one for Philip I mean ? ;p
[11:18] Jack Linden: Poppet – I don’t expect any short term changes (at least ones we weren’t already working on)
[11:18] Sera Lok is really upset they released 2.0 as the official viewer so soon >:|
[11:18] Annie Obscure: do you have any sense that the decimation of the engineering staff is going to be addressed?
[11:18] Zoha Boa: jack, when can we expect the announcement about the prices for 2011?
[11:18] Master Kane: i havent seen such a load of BS as for helping new folks as I have with v2 questions… maybe that needs to be rethought , Jack
[11:18] Jack Linden: hehe Lady
[11:18] Lady Sakai chuckles
[11:19] Jack Linden: Annie, I couldn’t comment on that I’m afraid
[11:19] Master Kane: Andhug line lady
[11:19] Lady Sakai: oh Ill jump his bones for this .. why even pretend
[11:19] Jack Linden: Zoha, soon I hope. It’s on our list to get that addressed. we know it’s due
[11:19] Alliez Mysterio: lol
[11:19] Slee Mayo: i don’t kiss males, but i might philip is he does something with his hair
[11:19] Master Kane: everyone should IM him.. I did
[11:19] Jack Linden: Master, noted
[11:19] Poppet McGimsie: Jack, did management take into account the effect that raising prims, lowering tiers, allowing detachment, had on the resident population, before the price raioses went into effect?
[11:19] Molly Montale: eek! It’s Marianne, Linden Lab’s next CEO
[11:20] Master Kane: when he logs on.. all he hears is DING DING DING DING DING lol
[11:20] Alliez Mysterio: I welcomed him back in forums
[11:20] Marianne McCann giggles
[11:20] Master Kane: thanks Jack
[11:20] Jack Linden: Poppet, we did a huge amount of planning yes.
[11:20] Sera Lok: are you aware of any details about Marketplace that’s coming in a week?
[11:20] Master Kane: cool Alliez.. need to read that I guess
[11:21] Adamburp Adamczyk: onigokko
[11:21] Lady Sakai: Jack, persoanl favour … fix this region so it dont crash my ass all the time plzzzzzzz
[11:21] Sera Lok: i’m wondering if the conversion to Paypal dollars … hmm this is rather hard to explain quickly but
[11:21] Jack Linden: Lady, this region specifically crashes you? hmm
[11:21] Master Kane: Jack.. can you talk to your website team and get them OFF the flash kick?? Flash is so out!
[11:21] Lady Sakai: well this is the only one that does soooo
[11:21] Sera Lok: current Xstreet shows US conversion rates that are WAY exorbitant and don’t make any sense
[11:21] Liisa Runo whispers: i think Jack has muted me couple months ago :/
[11:21] Adamburp Adamczyk: Flash! Aaaaaaa! Saviour of the universe!
[11:21] Equinox Pinion: Jack, do you have any news on the script limits
[11:21] Techwolf Lupindo: Flash is bad. M’ok?
[11:21] Jack Linden: Master, you’re not a fan? It has it’s uses but I know that not everyone likes it
[11:21] Adamburp Adamczyk: oi
[11:22] Slee Mayo: i did, liisa
[11:22] Sera Lok: and it’s not good for merchant OR customer, at all
[11:22] Adamburp Adamczyk: i’m not ad
[11:22] Nema Galicia: the lord of the pants has spoken
[11:22] Adamburp Adamczyk: bad*
[11:22] Master Kane: Well to most that cant hardly run SL. much less keep up on thing ON the website
[11:22] Adamburp Adamczyk: well, i’m not the flash, i;m the flush, but close enough……
[11:22] Jack Linden: We’re getting pretty close to the new Marketplace launch – any of the folks here in the beta test?
[11:22] Master Kane: lol
[11:22] Zoha Boa: it’s way to slow…now it’s also in the new support system..all my +700 ticketd need to load now before they can be shown in the flash page browser
[11:22] Uni Ninetails raises a paw “im in it oh shit nda i cant tell you that! ok im not not in it
[11:22] Equinox Pinion: i am in the beta test
[11:22] Sera Lok: no, i was just wondering about the US currency/conversion and whether it’s actually logical now
[11:23] Zoha Boa: my friendslist on the website +1600 people..need to be loaded first before the page shows….
[11:23] Patnad Babii: never heard there was a beta test or id be in
[11:23] Sera Lok: as opposed to making everything look overpriced in US dollars
[11:23] Poppet McGimsie: Jack, but it just seems to me that everything got better while land was booming, but that the price increase on HSs has depressed the economy. Shouldn’t that suggest revisitng the HS polcies?
[11:23] Jack Linden: hehe
[11:23] Master Kane: tickets now flash bases.. SHIT thats on the Your Profile.. all that crap
[11:23] Jack Linden: well, it’s nearly launch time – we’re really excited and think it’ll be a huge step up for the merchants that sell through xstreet currently
[11:24] Sera Lok: looking forward to the Marketplace, although I would be curious how Pink ended up on the layoff list, ha
[11:24] Poppet McGimsie: Jack, but what abouit people who sell in world? ;-;
[11:24] Alliez Mysterio: Zoah you might want to cut some friends
[11:24] Master Kane: Jack, what about free things on MArket place… still CHARGING for those onthere?
[11:24] Sera Lok: and hoping that US conversion will be a more correct calculation
[11:24] Jack Linden: Poppet, the HS pricing was a business decision that we felt was necessary at the time. Of course we’re always reviewing decisions, especially on pricing and products.
[11:24] Master Kane: You all make it hard on those of us that like to do thing and give things away !
[11:24] Adamburp Adamczyk: haas the list been cut now with Phillip coming back?
[11:24] Motor Loon: Since I was late I dunno if it’s been asked already – but I’d sure like to know if LL is planning to slowly bring the rate back to “normal” standing or if we are just going to cross our fingers and hope it does it by itself?
[11:25] Lady Sakai: Jack, that is a positiv note, Thank you
[11:25] Motor Loon: .. on Lindex that is
[11:25] Patnad Babii: i think LL should come up with a new sim with 7500 prims witch would make ppl happy
[11:25] Jack Linden: The slowdown had started before that change though. We’d had incredible growth on Land for quite a long time.
[11:25] Sera Lok: i think the main problem peole have with 2.0 is the HORRIBLE land search and other search tools
[11:25] Selina Greene: Jack, I would really like to know if M Linden is staying with LL or whether he is leaving the company. If he is staying, what will his new role be?
[11:25] Sera Lok: that’s why we are so apalled that you guys made it the default viewer
[11:25] Poppet McGimsie: Jack, yeah I wasn’t sure if it was an uncorrelated thing, but the HS “product” certainly seemed like a good one
[11:26] Lady Sakai: if not we will be happy to help carry his things out (to be on the safe side)
[11:26] Poppet McGimsie: which is now overpriced
[11:26] Jack Linden: Adamburp.. you know that’s a great question. As part of the re-organisation at the Lab we have certainly been focussing on doing fewer projects, and doing the ones we do to a much higher standard. We’ve been stretched a little thin in places.
[11:26] Zoha Boa: NO new sim products before the market is stable again..people moving to those sims will kill the market completally..HS sims empty..FP sims empty.. so PLEASE..no new land products before the economy is better
[11:26] Motor Loon: Selina: CEO’s that get canned never stay with the company
[11:26] Imaze Rhiano: Jack – have you talked at all coming script memory limits and how much memory each parcel can have sqm?
[11:26] Lady Sakai: Zoha, I agree completely
[11:26] Jack Linden: Selina, I can only refer you to the blog post.
[11:26] Uni Ninetails: yeh Jack script mem any infos?
[11:26] Vanity Bonetto: yes, me too , Zoha
[11:26] Selina Greene: okay – thanks
[11:27] Annie Obscure: ++Zoha
[11:27] Sera Lok: do you know when will the next major 2.0 update come out?
[11:27] Selina Greene agrees with Zoga
[11:27] Rene Erlanger: How will Customer Service improve given the layoffs…..will it be a more automated process than before and less human communication
[11:27] Jack Linden: Imaze, no.. I’ve no new news on script limits. Things are a little in flux right now as we finish the re-org but we’ll be talking more broadly soon about what is coming
[11:27] Master Kane hides eye
[11:28] Jack Linden: Sera, I think viewer 2.1 beta is out now – when we move to 2.1 will depend on how the beta plays out
[11:28] Lady Sakai: Imaze, I belive bBabbage was the head man and since hes gone it makes sence they need to do some suffles
[11:28] Jack Linden: It has a lot of performance and stability fixes in it
[11:28] Sera Lok: yeah i didn’t like that 
haha
[11:28] Uni Ninetails: Jack, i presume region windlight is in flux also with the interal changes?
[11:29] Patnad Babii: 2.1 is mainly to push the voice morph tho :/
[11:29] Poppet McGimsie: Jack, do you think management would consider involving long-time reisdents more in decision making process?
[11:29] Ardy Lay: There is still a serious issue open on script reporting: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5598 Script Info reporting on discontiguous parcels is not working as expected.
[11:29] Lady Sakai: Jack, any hope at all the UI will be ditched? Its heartbreaking that we cant help the new ppl when they come to us
[11:29] Patnad Babii: havent seen much change in it
[11:29] Sera Lok: oh yeah!!! what about this MONO bug!
[11:29] Jack Linden: Rene, that’s outside my remit these days so hard for me to comment on customer support and how they will organise
[11:29] Liisa Runo: Babbage not gone yet, if the C# beta is well recieved he might stay
[11:29] Sera Lok: this seriously cripples any parcel that has visitors coming in and out, i can’t believe we’ve had to deal with this bug for so long……
[11:29] Patnad Babii: oh beta C# ??
[11:29] Jack Linden: Uni, that is a very minor update and may still make it into an upcoming viewer
[11:29] Imaze Rhiano: Yes/no, lady – Babbie is half dead – Brighton lab is under 30 day consulting period before lab is closed (somewhere in start of next month) – and memory limits codes are transfered to US (so they are coming)
[11:30] Uni Ninetails: O.O thought it required region patching also
[11:30] Sera Lok: are you going to simply update to a new mono , or fix it, or what
[11:30] Equinox Pinion: will you move to the US when the brighton office is closed jack?
[11:30] Jack Linden: Uni, it’s both.
[11:30] Lady Sakai: or Holand ?
[11:31] Jack Linden: Sera, I’m not sure of how the scripting roadmap is affected. That’s something we’re working on
[11:31] Sera Lok: 
ok ty
[11:31] Serra Anansi: Jack, Windlight is a minor update? they why were we told it was a HUGE NO CAN DO thing for so long?
[11:31] Uni Ninetails: Jack i would truly appreciate some detailed information on it if you have time for next week, if not no biggy
[11:32] Jack Linden: Serra, perhaps we’re talking about different things.. I’m referring to the estate control of windlight settings (being able to assert those on visitors)
[11:32] Serra Anansi: that is exactly what i am talking about
[11:32] (ET) Bunnies Monitor v1.9:
——- Bunnies Monitor Notice ——-
Racer has reached the hunger limit, please feed him/her!
Teleport: Serencia (144,230,29)
—————————————–
[11:32] Serra Anansi: I have been begging for it for ages
[11:32] Poppet McGimsie: wow very very cool
[11:32] Motor Loon: yep
[11:32] Poppet McGimsie: why has it taken so long : )
[11:32] Liisa Runo: more about Babbages possible future: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Babbage_Linden/Office_Hours/2010_06_16
[11:32] Jack Linden: Serra, the work for that has been done, and through QA too. It just depends on when we decide to fold it into a release
[11:33] Lady Sakai: Jack .. Ill try again .. any idea if the V2 UI will be ditched? .. Its heartbreaking we cant help new residents when they come to us .. starting SL is hard enough as it is
[11:33] Serra Anansi is annoyed
[11:33] Poppet McGimsie: Jack is it server side or viewer side? If the latter will it be in both v 2.0 and 1.x?
[11:33] Equinox Pinion: agree lady
[11:33] Marianne McCann is a rebel, and actually likes a lot of the V2 UI
[11:33] Sera Lok: i think he said no, Lady
[11:33] Serra Anansi: Please “decide” to implement it soon.. it is very needed in my region to enforce and accentuate the theme…
[11:33] Rene Erlanger: so that we don’t ask you questions which are not under your remit…..which sectiosn are you respnsible for? I take its Land, Search and eCommerce…..is that correct?
[11:33] Lady Sakai: ((
[11:34] Jack Linden: Lady, I don’t believe it will be ditched, but I do expect that it will be worked on to fix issues with it
[11:34] Sera Lok: but it would be nice, eh, to be able to like , have a 1.23 UI view in viewer2?
[11:34] Vanity Bonetto: Jack, I have asked several times the last few weeks for more abilities for estate owners in estate menu, especially to enable EM to turn off the damn ban lines … any chance to get there in the near future ?
[11:34] Jack Linden: We know it has some real flow problems especially for some users like builders
[11:34] Sera Lok: like “retro” controls
[11:34] Sera Lok: yyyyyup…
[11:34] Sera Lok: or people searching for things, or…
[11:34] Master Kane: “SOME” ??? realy?!
[11:34] Sera Lok:
[11:34] Alliez Mysterio: Getting rid of ban lines would be great
[11:35] Uni Ninetails: Id use viewer 2 if it had some damn tempory assets/ local textures ala emerald
[11:35] Sera Lok: people trying to walk around not looking like idiots because they selected something and now can’t deselect it and don’t know how?
[11:35] Equinox Pinion: but could you not make newbies download the 1.23 till 2 is fixed
[11:35] Jack Linden: Rene, I’m an ED on the Product side, so eCommerce, Search, the viewer, and of course still involved with land as a product
[11:35] APinkSwan Beauchamp wonders what the stats are on users…V2, 1.23, third party viewers.
[11:35] Master Kane: getting rid of the crack smoking v2 UI makers would be great too
[11:35] Lady Sakai: jack, sorry to harp on theis wonderfull and brightest of days … the biggest issue is the UI …. its impossible to wrk with and I for one, as a single paretn dont have the time to learn all over again … so plzzzz take it to the tech boys with my plees for it
[11:35] Selina Greene completely agrees with Lady regarding how hard it is to help newcomers – 2.0 has created a gulf between old and new residents
[11:35] Poppet McGimsie: I am not sure how much my reluctance to use viewer 2 is due to bad workflow and how much is due to overcoming energy hump involved in getting used to it
[11:35] Jack Linden: Master, I wasn’t meaning to downplay it. It needs help, we know that.
[11:35] Master Kane: yes agreed! 100%
[11:35] Techwolf Lupindo: I guess about a three way tie of viwer usage of 1.23.5, 2.x, and emerlad.
[11:35] Sera Lok: it’s just that it’s the “official” viewer and that’s really just… wrong, in my opinon
[11:36] Drongle McMahon: Why are V2 banlines much uglier than V1.23?
[11:36] APinkSwan Beauchamp: What percentage of residents are using the V2?
[11:36] Sera Lok: most of your residents who provide support and who help newbs WON;’T use viewer2
[11:36] Serra Anansi: Jack, I am really sorry to harp on this Windlight thing, but implementing the full windlight option is down LL “deciding” to activate it?
[11:36] Master Kane: they knew you liked them Pink lol
[11:36] Nema Galicia: I have enough rides in sl to make me dizzy I dont need V2 messing me up more
[11:36] Lady Sakai: we so want to help new residents but we simply cant jack …. and people leave cos ot that …. that is not what we need right now .. we need them to stay
[11:36] Master Kane: lol nema
[11:37] Master Kane: go carts too? )
[11:37] Poppet McGimsie: another problem is having to write two different sets of READMEs for product use
[11:37] Jack Linden: APinkSwan, it’s not that high. We still have people on 1.23 and some third party viewers have good numbers of people using them (Emerald especially)
[11:37] Equinox Pinion: i even make them download 1.23 lady
[11:37] Slee Mayo: jack, i heard tony hayward was replacing M, is that true?
[11:37] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Would you say that V2 is at the bottom then?
[11:37] Annie Obscure: I did a random survey by, essentially, bouncing around the grid using emerald’s ID feature, and it’s only about 33% adoption of 2.0
[11:37] Sera Lok: most people seem to use emerald
[11:37] Master Kane: Imprudence all the way.. and 1,23 of course
[11:37] Sera Lok: i don’t anymore
[11:37] Patnad Babii: the new emerald beta is pretty nice, old UI with 2.0 features
[11:37] Lady Sakai: yea I recomend Emerald (Sorry Jack) since its my favorite .. but thats really just a stupid hurdle
[11:37] Jack Linden: Serra, it’s more than just a button press.. as with all complex code release it has to go into a server and viewer deply cycle
[11:37] Sera Lok: but new users just automatically use viewer 2
[11:37] Jack Linden: *deploy
[11:38] Bella Bertone: 2.0 gave me headaches
[11:38] Sera Lok: which i am sad for. since it’s not fully functional!
[11:38] Vanity Bonetto: Jack, here is the JIRA about the ban line issue … whenever you have a moment, please check it … https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4933
[11:38] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Jack,would you say V2 comes in far behind the rest?
[11:38] Master Kane: bella.. they told me.. “Thats what they make asprins for….”
[11:38] Jack Linden: thanks Vanity, I will take a look
[11:38] Master Kane: why*
[11:38] Lady Sakai: oh lord yes the ban lines jack … I know its “minor” but still its a brillo idea
[11:38] Sera Lok: why give new residents a viewer that’s different from almost everyone who knows what they’re doing in SL. where they have trouble building, editing, finding people, oh well ok that’s enough. you’ve heard all this before lol
[11:38] Bella Bertone: OD on aspirin lol
[11:38] Vanity Bonetto: thank you Jack
[11:39] Jack Linden: APinkSwan, not far but yes, it;s not the biggest Viewer
[11:39] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Okay, thank you…:)
[11:39] Molly Montale: hello, In grid
[11:39] Uni Ninetails: oh holy shit yes, to 4933
[11:39] Serra Anansi: Sorry Jack, you have me completely confused then… you said it was an easy thing and that it might be included on the next release… then you said after I asked about it being “simple” that it was a matter of “deciding” to impliment
[11:39] Lady Sakai: Hi Molly
[11:39] Rene Erlanger: Will LL now move to develop a “Browser” viewer to be used in conjuction witha “Downloaable” viewer………as the emphasis seems to be attracting more consumers
[11:39] Lady Sakai: the is the rumours I hear also Rene
[11:40] Selina Greene: that sounded like M’s big thing – I hope the browser based thing will go along with him… just seems like more complication at the wrong time
[11:40] Bella Bertone: i second that
[11:40] Sera Lok: mmhmmm
[11:40] Jack Linden: Serra, the coding is done. It was unit tested and passed. But we still have to queue things against specific releases of viewer and server.. sometimes to reduce risk we may keep things out of a server release in favour of more important changes.
[11:40] Annie Obscure: survey I conducted May 29: 46% emerald, 19% V2.0
[11:40] Jack Linden: So the fact that it’s ready doesn’t mean it instantly goes out. There is a process.
[11:41] Rene Erlanger: welll if both options are open……..it might be a good thing for SL in the long term in terms of growth.
[11:41] Uni Ninetails: why arent there beta test servers running it Jack?
[11:41] Bella Bertone: Process= think about pitching it, then pitching it
[11:41] Sera Lok: and f you’re lucky, there won’t be any bugs that make them retract it
[11:41] Lady Sakai: it could … down the line … be good …. but I agree .. maybe getting things sorted .. like lag, pricings… etc etc etc first would be best .. but if implmented correctly it might be a good way to get more into SL …. just a thought
[11:41] Master Kane: “all stats are made up…”
[11:41] Selina Greene: but viewer 2.0 went out instantly even though it wasn’t ready… (me smiles naughtily)
[11:41] Sera Lok reallllllly hopes there is some major focus on this mono issue
[11:41] Motor Loon: just wait til mesh support comes… then the % will change as all creators who do sculpties will be forced to use the 2.x to be able to support mesh uploads.
[11:42] Jack Linden: Rene, our commitment is very much to the immersive inworld we have now, but we’re looking at ways to leverage the web to help residents make the most of their second lives.
[11:42] Serra Anansi: Windlight IS an important change, creating an immersible environment is important to making SL a viable and interesting place to visit
[11:42] Sera Lok: for merchants and club owners, it’s a HUGE problem
[11:42] Patnad Babii: is the browser viewer similar to Unity3D ?
[11:42] Jack Linden: We’ve always been interested in those crossover tools that let people stay engaged inworld but still interact with, for example, their social identity on the web
[11:42] Uni Ninetails nods at Sera, was at vista anims store earlier and it was a bloddy nightmare with mono loaded avs dropping in and out
[11:42] Zoha Boa: Jack, the lindex is still at 267 at the moment. Is LL going to do something agianst it to bring it back to 259/260. Buying for exemple 100 milj. L$ and bring them slowly on the market over the next months ?
[11:43] Sera Lok: nod.. with the mono bug, you get lag when someone comes AND when they go… it’s so predictable and so incredibly frustrating
[11:43] Liisa Runo: virtual world is the future of internet, web browser will fade away eventually
[11:43] Sera Lok: and the avatars affecting the sim don’t even realize it, they don’t know they’re crippling my sim
[11:43] Ellla McMahon: re anl ADDITIONAL Browser-style Viewer … the iPad market is a great customer base to go after .. it can’t come soon enough
[11:44] Jack Linden: No Zoha. The market is fluid (as it should be) and that does mean it can float up and down. It’s been stable for long periods, and has stabilised a lot after the recent deflation
[11:44] Sera Lok: and i’ll be damned if you’re going to make us wait till the script limits
[11:44] Lady Sakai: Liisa, we still have the problem that SL is eating computers up .. ppl cant run Sl on normal comps at this stage
[11:44] Selina Greene: Zoha, shouldn’t today’s news hopefully sort the lindex out?
[11:44] Jack Linden: It may stabilise down further yet, we’ll have to see
[11:44] Sera Lok: this mono bug has been going on for sheesh, almost a year now??
[11:44] Liisa Runo: i can run SL with the computer i bought 10 years ago
[11:44] Uni Ninetails: whats was the fix jist? upgrade debian then upgrade mono then apply fix?
[11:45] Master Kane: and a reach around, uni.. dont forget that
[11:45] Sera Lok: well they had a fix at one time
[11:45] Uni Ninetails: LOL
[11:45] Rene Erlanger: Zoha….LL don’t buy back Lindens (itw would costs real USD)…..they only sell Lindens. They could increase Sinks, or reduce sources
[11:45] Sera Lok: but it was buggy
[11:45] Master Kane: )
[11:45] Lady Sakai: Liisa, you have to understand that not all are computer savy and just cos they arent shouldnt mean that they cant use SL … its a wonderfull place that should welcome all .. dumb as well as smart (computer wise)
[11:46] Equinox Pinion: what about paying tier in linden..you said you discussed it….any decisions?
[11:46] Jack Linden: Lady, we’re definitely trying hard to improve performance on low end machines right now
[11:46] Lady Sakai: thats good news jack
[11:46] Jack Linden: agreed that we want to let as many people enjoy second life as we can
[11:46] Motor Loon: my netbook can run Sl… and its a 200 dollar computer
[11:46] Sera Lok: then fix that mono bug:D
[11:46] Zoha Boa: tthat’s why Isaid buy them and bring them back oon the market spread over a few months, as a sort of buffer
[11:46] Liisa Runo: i prefer awesome SL with less people over text only SL with more ppl.
[11:46] Slate Saunders: What is the logic in trying to make Second Life merge with First LIfe (Facebook and assorted RL web identity things)?
[11:47] Sera Lok: and if search is truly FIXED, YAY!!!!!
[11:47] Sera Lok: that’s *aweseom* news
[11:47] Lady Sakai: Id like to see an awsome Sl with as many ppl as possible liisa
[11:47] Lady Sakai: if Im not mistaken that is what Phillip been heading for also ( look at YT for lectures with him)
[11:48] Jack Linden: Slate, it’s not so much about merging. We have a very strong inworld experience and that is way more immersive than the web can be. It’s more about recognising that our residents also have other identities and interests out on the web, so finding ways to let people connect those two sides is a good thing
[11:48] Poppet McGimsie: what is YT?
[11:48] Lady Sakai: You Tube
[11:48] Nema Galicia: is Ll just using places Like FB to impliment advertising with maybe a link to a vid and the web site to sighn up for sl?
[11:48] Slee Mayo: youtube?
[11:48] Poppet McGimsie: doh
[11:48] Lady Sakai: hehe
[11:48] Sera Lok: is the work with Avatar United and getting that linked up with Marketplace and SL inworld continuing?
[11:48] Equinox Pinion: second try. what about paying tier in linden..you said you discussed it….any decisions?
[11:49] Poppet McGimsie: I for one think that the 3d web browser stuff is nifty and may be the way things are heading
[11:49] Southern Riptide: what if we dont WANT people to connect the 2 sides? thats the issue lol its kinda forced upon us?
[11:49] Lady Sakai: I secnd that Equi
[11:49] Selina Greene: that would be good equinox
[11:49] Equinox Pinion: ohh ok
[11:49] Equinox Pinion: tx
[11:49] Motor Loon: can you do my office and showroom when youre done here Ingrid?
[11:49] Jack Linden: Sera, I think the important caveat there is what you mean by ‘fixed’. Search has changed, it needed to. So the old, very static search, is not going to return. As with the web, our search will be more dynamic but also more accurate and more fair
[11:49] Equinox Pinion: yes very
[11:49] Nema Galicia: what if we dont want to connect teh two sides? If i want to go farm and stay in sl I just oepn another browser. I dont want people out tehre comming into sl looking for Nema
[11:49] Master Kane: thought they did that anyways Equix… take it from your acount.. or ami missinfg someting
[11:49] Marianne McCann moves her feet a bit so Ingrid does not vacuum them up
[11:49] Ingrid Ingersoll: sure thing Motor.
[11:49] Master Kane: wow.. major lag! Keyboard not keeping up with my typing
[11:49] Sera Lok: well, i’ll be happy if my parcel simply shows up in certain searches, at this point
[11:50] Jack Linden: Southern, it won’t be forced. If folks don’t want to, they can ignore any extra tools we provide
[11:50] Poppet McGimsie: hopefully there will be control over disclosure, nema
[11:50] Lady Sakai: it would be totally awsome .. if we can do it so can LL … just dont use the Hippo if your gonna implemnt the script limits LOL
[11:50] Sera Lok: as in, not have to uncheck maturity settings just to see my page, which ironically has the word SEX in the title, but only shows in PG ;P
[11:50] Southern Riptide: aaahhhh
[11:50] Miles Beck agrees with Sera!!
[11:51] Selina Greene is very attached to hippo and wants to see script limits that aren’t too excessively strict
[11:51] Rene Erlanger: jack….wouldn’t it be a good idea for LL to develop 2 types of viewer so it could widen it;s marketability for tose that happen to low performing computing power. Take your pick from a) existing Viewers &a Lite version (excluding Windlight, Voice and other goodies) ….or B) existing viewers plus “Browser ” Viewer
[11:51] Imaze Rhiano: scruot limits are necessary bad
[11:51] Lady Sakai: Hippo should clean their stuff up Sera .. they are way to heavy
[11:51] Uni Ninetails: thatd be good. use the older renderer
[11:51] Lady Sakai: sorry Selina
[11:51] Imaze Rhiano: * script…
[11:51] Sera Lok: mrerr!
[11:51] Jack Linden: Rene, maybe. The question is more whether we’d really want to have to support and maintain to separate viewers – and do we have the resources to do that well
[11:51] Liisa Runo: just one viewer with adjustable settings like draw distance and what not
[11:51] Master Kane: Rene.. you think they will listen now? after years of complainingabout that?
[11:52] Patnad Babii: attrackting the iPad crowd would be pretty nice
[11:52] Jack Linden: I agree though that different users have very different needs from a viewer
[11:52] Sera Lok: but Jack!
[11:52] Sera Lok: you’re making US support 2 viewers
[11:52] Sera Lok: heh
[11:52] Master Kane: I do have to say, that LL has done an excellent job trying to keep the driver update down! WTG!
[11:52] Patnad Babii: so probably html5 is the way to go with for a browser based viewer
[11:52] Lady Sakai: hehe good point Sera
[11:53] Jack Linden:
[11:53] Slee Mayo: they had to, master, they’re on pcs as well
[11:53] Slate Saunders: well, with short resources is RL/SL merging a priority that needs to be addressed while there are so many unfixed, unaddressed problems?
[11:53] Selina Greene: right Salte
[11:53] Selina Greene: Slate
[11:53] Master Kane: Not everyone can program for older systems or even find older driver TO support
[11:53] Sera Lok: that’s why we are again, sooo appalled at 2.0 becoming the default viewer
[11:53] Annie Obscure: ++Slate
[11:53] Sera Lok: before your main users can even use it with confidence:(
[11:54] APinkSwan Beauchamp TOTALLY agrees with Sera
[11:54] Vanity Bonetto: I gotta go, good bye everyone …. see ya next week
[11:54] Jack Linden: Slate, exactly.. we need to spend the resources we have wisely. No point taking on things unless we’re sure we can deliver them to a high quality
[11:54] Slee Mayo: buh bye
[11:54] Annie Obscure: fixing group chat
[11:54] Sera Lok: i’mbeing totally serious. 2.0 should NOT be the default viewer.
[11:54] Master Kane: bye vanity
[11:54] Lady Sakai: right !! .. now we got Phillip back as we have cried for for years .. now listen to reason and dump the UI .. we wont hold it against you we promise
[11:54] Selina Greene also agrees with Sera
[11:54] Jack Linden: bye vanity
[11:54] Marianne McCann doesn’t agree
[11:54] Sera Lok: not that anyone listens to me, but still:)
[11:55] Rene Erlanger: i think the main problem with Viewer 2.0 and its unpopularity is the UI……that should be re-mapped. e.g that side bar
[11:55] Master Kane: huh what sere?
[11:55] Master Kane:
[11:55] Sera Lok:
[11:55] Master Kane:
[11:55] Liisa Runo: setting v2 as default client for new people when it still had major bugs reported in ALPHA state by LL testers was kinda bad move
[11:55] Slee Mayo: *looks over TOS about protesting LL
[11:55] Southern Riptide: lol
[11:55] Sera Lok: agreed
[11:55] Jack Linden: 2.1 will allow the sidebar to slide over the world rather than move the camera.. for me, personally, that’s a huge win hehe
[11:55] Annie Obscure: quit doing crazy side projects. FIX THE FREAKING SYSTEM!
[11:55] Motor Loon: Jack, the REALLY important tool “object return by resident in entire estate” is non working again – do you know if thats fixed in 1.40 ?
[11:56] Master Kane: yeah slee.. they dont offer toilet paper.. better file a lawsuit
[11:56] Slate Saunders agrees with Annie
[11:56] Jack Linden: Motor, I’m not sure on that one
[11:56] Sera Lok: it is a win… but… how much time do you spend inworld building or working with land or searching for land or products, Jack ?
[11:56] Techwolf Lupindo: Viewer 2.0 alpha was dumped on the beta testers. Viewer 2.0 BETA was dumped onto new user by default. A very bad move.
[11:56] Motor Loon: It’s really the BEST tool we have to protect our estates against greifing
[11:56] Marianne McCann: That I do agree with. It’s not a bad viewer… but it was really pushed out before it was “there,” and in spite of a lot of private beta participants pointing out big issues that are only now being addressed in 2.1
[11:56] Lady Sakai: oh oh I know that one Sera .. the answer is .. Non ?
[11:56] Master Kane: Agreed Tech
[11:56] Master Kane: more like PUSHED/SHOVED
[11:56] Lady Sakai grins at jack
[11:56] Sera Lok: Yes, it’s NOT suitable for default viewer. it’s not just crazy pissed off people being mad at nonsense
[11:57] Master Kane: “.. beend over heres oru sign newbies”
[11:57] APinkSwan Beauchamp: and it has created even more work for LL
[11:57] Jack Linden: Sera, less than I used to. I used to build a lot, that was really my thing
[11:57] Selina Greene: how about instead of bugging us with a constant survey on how we feel about marketplace, doing a survey on 2.0 – we’re not some crazy minority here re: our feelings on 2.0
[11:57] Jack Linden: I still try hard to get my alt inworld as often as i can
[11:57] Jack Linden: I always learn so much when i do
[11:57] Master Kane: oh whats his name?
[11:57] Lady Sakai: well do us a favour and take a week and build in the V2 .. then we can talk again
[11:57] Equinox Pinion: ohh can we see some of your creations *g*
[11:57] Master Kane: llet visit him )
[11:58] Liisa Runo: normally when programs are developed they dont have any alpha bugs when they go to beta, and no beta bugs when final is released, v2 had alpha bugs in final
[11:58] Nema Galicia: lol @ MK
[11:58] Sera Lok: i really gave 2.0 a try. i was going to make it the viewer i used. i couldn’t
[11:58] Slate Saunders: what’s your Alt’s name Jack?
[11:58] Southern Riptide: lol
[11:58] Silken Wilder: I have land he can buy and use to build..
[11:58] Lady Sakai: mm do tell jack
[11:58] Master Kane: see im not the only one that wants to know
[11:58] Southern Riptide: watches jack switch on them tools lol
[11:58] Jack Linden: Hehe Equinox, i see my creations around quite often actually.. still gives me a huge buzz
[11:58] Master Kane: ceom on jack.. cough him up
[11:58] Rene Erlanger: well i cna sy even Noobs have had difficulty with the viewer 2.0, which might partly explain the low retention rates. Its should not have been the default download in its current state….should have been optional
[11:58] Lady Sakai: he can come live in Brum ya know ;p
[11:58] Slee Mayo: i’m betting nebula something
[11:58] Annie Obscure: Jack, I ran a pretty scientific survey – literally bouncing around the grid checking viewers. V2.0 is only 21% of viewer usage.
[11:58] Equinox Pinion:
[11:58] Marianne McCann: Prokofy?
[11:58] Lady Sakai: Dolly !!!
[11:58] Alliez Mysterio whispers: I heard its Jack Alt
[11:59] Silken Wilder: yes Rene..I agree
[11:59] Master Kane: hmmm
[11:59] Jack Linden: hohoho
[11:59] Sera Lok: i’m here an insane amount of time, and do perhaps an insane number of things… viewer 2.0 pretty much made it impossible for me to do things efficiently, even after using it a full two weeks
[11:59] Silken Wilder: we get hit up by newbs alot and they are sooo confused on the viewer
[11:59] Master Kane: oh so your alts name is (and I quote) “hohoho”
[11:59] Motor Loon: I only lasted with 2.0 for two days
[11:59] Master Kane:
[11:59] Zoha Boa: hohohoho..the christmas man ?
[11:59] Lady Sakai: plz plz plzzzz Jack .. make it go awayyyyy
[12:00] Rene Erlanger: I would be surprised if Viewer 2.0 has more than 30% take up
[12:00] Southern Riptide: he doesnt want to tell us his alts name cuz the last names off? hahahahah
[12:00] Uni Ninetails: 2.0 was awright. enjoyed the performance. but totally useless for content creation. why should i spend cash on uploads when i get get free on emerald during development
[12:00] Master Kane: I can thinnk of a few snatas(z) that I seen
[12:00] Southern Riptide: sorry jack couldnt resist
[12:00] Alliez Mysterio: I think if they do a survey on it, they will see we are not just taking about how bad it is
[12:00] Jack Linden: Sera, yeah I tried myself and the flow for builders is clumsy. But I do believe it can be fixed; the way that builders use the camera and inventory is different, we just need to push harder on that. We’ll get there.. i genuinely believe we will
[12:00] Sera Lok: yes i really like parts of it. but as a whole it’s a total mess!
[12:00] Molly Montale: KirstenLee’s is almost livable: http://www.kirstensviewer.com/
[12:00] APinkSwan Beauchamp: How much manpower is it taking to backtrack and fix something that never should have gone live in the first place?
[12:00] Master Kane: not just builders Jack.. the whole gui
[12:01] Annie Obscure: and it makes it too easy to ignore an IM
[12:01] Sera Lok: well… here’s hoping for big improvements to it so i can migrate and stop bitching
[12:01] Marianne McCann: Gotta scoot, Have a good day!
[12:01] Ellla McMahon: we all have a choice, no one is forced to use V2 or the old 1.23
[12:01] Master Kane: Bye Marianne
[12:01] Lady Sakai: cya Marianne
[12:01] Annie Obscure: I routinely was getting pinged and ignoring
[12:01] Miles Beck: bye Marianne
[12:01] Sera Lok: yes for now:)
[12:01] Bronson Blackadder: oh yes IMs are easy to miss
[12:01] zazen Manbi: agreen Annie
[12:01] Silken Wilder: yes for now Ella
[12:01] Lady Sakai: Ella.. WE know that .. the issues is th NWE residents
[12:01] Sera Lok: did i hear Jack say 1.23 would be supported indefinitely?
[12:01] Jack Linden: I have to run too folks. Thank you all for coming along! Good to see the positivity!
[12:01] Jack Linden: See you all next week!
[12:01] Silken Wilder: and new residents have NO idea
[12:01] Lady Sakai: we cant help even if we want to
[12:01] Ellla McMahon: there’s loads of TPV
[12:01] Ingrid Ingersoll: bye bye Jack
[12:01] Selina Greene: Jack, just wondering when the consultation period is over on the Brighton office?
[12:01] Alliez Mysterio: Thanks Jack
[12:01] Sera Lok: ty jack
[12:01] Equinox Pinion: take care jack!
[12:01] Lady Sakai: HUgsss Jack )
[12:01] Zoha Boa: take care jack
[12:01] Sammy Hermit: TY Jack for the info on Search may get to keep my last 2 shops now need to go byee everyone
[12:01] Bronson Blackadder: happy days Jack
[12:01] Slee Mayo: buh bye
[12:01] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Thank you, Jack.
[12:02] Silken Wilder poofs
[12:02] Uni Ninetails: ty Jack all annoy you next week about windlight more
[12:02] Qie Niangao: Thanks Jack
[12:02] Jack Linden waves