Jack Linden Meeting – February 11th, 2010
[10:55] Jack Linden is Online
[10:57] Jack Linden has entered the sim.
[10:58] Moon Corrigible: Yay! Jacks’ here!
[10:58] Jack Linden: hey folks
[10:58] Qie Niangao: Greetings, Jack.
[10:58] CPU Core: nothing is new though
[10:58] Alkanos Smit: hello jack ^^
[10:58] Jude Towton: Yay, Jacks’s here
[10:58] Dytska Vieria: Hi Jack!
[10:58] CPU Core: hi Jack
[10:58] Daniel Voyager: hey Jack
[10:59] Ardy Lay: Hello Jack.
[10:59] Frankie Antonioni: Hey Jack.
[10:59] Jack Linden: how is everyone this week?
[10:59] Jude Towton: grumbles, “usual”
[10:59] Frankie Antonioni: Are right.
[10:59] Ardy Lay: Kinda grumpy.
[10:59] Jack Linden: uh oh, that doesn’t sounds good Jude!
[10:59] Jack Linden: 
[10:59] CPU Core: im fine.. on a campaign to get paid sandboxes or premium sandboxes
[10:59] Zoha Boa: hi everyone, doing fine here
[10:59] Driftwood Miles: Great thanks Jack
[10:59] Jude Towton: Well, its the usual spin on enforcing ACP
[11:00] Jack Linden: Ah the adult content policy.. what specifically Jude?
[11:00] Jude Towton: The hundreds of places not in complaince and that LL is doing nothing
[11:01] Jude Towton: Relying on AR’s when people arent…apparently
[11:01] Jude Towton: Here’s a question : What is LL doing about violent themed places, instead of saying (quote Blondin) it’s “tough?” Have you just given up on making them compliant with ACP?
“The Adult designation applies to Second Life® Regions that host conduct or display content that is sexually explicit or intensely violent, or depicts illicit drug use. Any Region must be designated Adult and therefore require account verification, if it advertises or publicly promotes the following:
Representations of intensely violent acts, whether or not photo-realistic (for example, depicting death, torture, dismemberment or other severe bodily harm)
[11:02] Ardy Lay: Sounds like the squatter next to Nyx Linden’s place.
[11:03] Jack Linden: Ah I see, well.. we absolutely have not given up on making people comply with policies. But the balance to that is that we don’t have infinite resource but I would agree that it is important. We can’t make such large policy statements without the commitment to follow through. I would need to go speak with the team to get a handle on where they are right now with load
[11:03] Jack Linden: Jude, I will look into it
[11:03] Qie Niangao: Yeah, it would be fine if there just no policy at all… but half-way enforcement of the policy makes it business-suicide to comply.
[11:03] Jack Linden: If you have clear cut examples, let me have them
[11:03] Jude Towton: Then, question 2: What exactally IS LL doing about ACP, do they have anyone at all LOOKING for places not in compliance? I’ve given LL the tools and the means to do it, meaning how to search for those not in compliance, is there a teeam, or even one person searching them?
[11:03] Jack Linden: Qie, agreed
[11:03] xstorm Radek: eeepppp rezz fast i see nude people
[11:03] Zoha Boa: jack, whyis an activity only adult if you advertise for i t?
[11:03] Jude Towton: On that card…that note…find them yourself, it isnt hard
[11:04] Jack Linden: Jude, we have a large team that covers a range of different inworld issues such as harassment, policy enforcement, etc.
[11:04] Jude Towton: Yes…and….why havent the numbers changed in 4 weeks?
[11:04] Jude Towton: Find them yourself, as I said, it isnt hard
[11:04] Jack Linden: Zoha, the original intent was that we were focussed on ‘commercialised adult activities and services’
[11:05] Zoha Boa: so it’s ok to have an orgie on PG land as long as you don’t make a classified? Isn’t this classification not made to prevent that people who don’t want to see it don’t go to adult sims ?
[11:05] Jack Linden: That was communicated at the time in the inworld meetings and forum posts. Two individuals in a skybox is a different issue than a large adult club
[11:06] Jack Linden: Zoha, no.. that’s a simplification and clearly there will have to be some subjectivity no mater how tightly we try to define rules.
[11:06] Jude Towton: So what’s “being done” about the violent themed places?
[11:06] Jack Linden: For the most part it is very clear when something should be in the adult and when it should not
[11:06] Zoha Boa: yes it is jack. you only look at the advertising
[11:07] Jude Towton: Not that I care, it’s just that the plan failed, you and I and all here know it.
[11:07] Zoha Boa: [11:25] Blondin Linden: A strip club and nudity itself were deemed Mature. As long as the stip club didn’t use adult key words or have adult animations in some sort of backroom sex, then it could be on mature land.
[11:07] Jack Linden: Jude, without checking with the team I can’t easily answer other than to affirm our commitment to enforcement.. so give me some examples and let me find out
[11:07] Jude Towton: Jack, did you get that card?
[11:07] Driftwood Miles: a line had to be drawn somewhere, hence the policy. To totally ban any adult activity would be impossible to enforce. Thats not to say the currecnt set up is easy to police
[11:07] Jude Towton: I gave you one a few weeks ago, I gaeve the HOW TO FIND them in AR’s
[11:07] Jack Linden: Ah yes Jude I did, thanks (I get cards constantly, so i hadn’t realised it was from you)
[11:07] Jude Towton: I have a problem with the HUNDREDS I found
[11:08] Ezio Iadyl has left the sim.
[11:08] CPU Core: So you will probably be left with only people who are unable to Comply with the policy and they will have a choice between shutting down their business or getting banned.. pretty much anyone would choose to get banned than lose their business
[11:08] Arawn Spitteler wonders if he’s sitting on anybody
[11:08] Frankie Antonioni: If a store sells guns, does that count as adult content?
[11:08] Driftwood Miles: or wet fish
[11:08] Arawn Spitteler: If a store sells adult content, I’d hardly call that adult
[11:08] Jack Linden: Jude, I literally get hundreds of notecards and as much as I would love to, I simply can’t read them all. My IMs get capped too. But I will take your feedback to the team
[11:09] Ciaran Laval has entered the sim.
[11:09] Jude Towton: Sooo, an inking on how LL is enforcing keeping violent themed places, hmm? Last I knew it was “tough” because LL couldnt filter the words
[11:09] Master Kane: doesnt capped IMs goto the email when you sign up
[11:09] CPU Core: also you look at the prices to buy land in Zindra.. they would have to sell their old land at a loss and buy new land at least 5x more expensive to move..t hats crazy.. you should be swapping parcels instead
[11:09] Motor Loon: ooh jack dont get IM’s offline 
[11:09] Zoha Boa: jack..talking about capped messages…i’m next month 3 years in SL..when will this bug be fixed
[11:09] xstorm Radek: Jack when is the mainland in Corsica continent get people putting in the roads its been 2 years now from when it did win by votes to get them roads put in and yet it seem even blondin linden did not know about the corsica continent …. Now is linden labs hoping for people to just give up there land and drop out of second life so linden lab can have the land back for some builds they plan on doing later ?
[11:10] Master Kane: hey wild
[11:10] Jack Linden: xstorm, we have a plan of road building across all the continents but right now we have had to push a lot of energy into the upcoming launch of Linden Homes. We’ll get back on track soon with the road building though
[11:10] Arawn Spitteler struggles to cam back a bit: Hi, Ardy
[11:11] Ardy Lay: Hi
[11:11] Qie Niangao: ooo, speaking of roads: lots of progress on Heterocera, on roads I thought would never get completed.
[11:11] wildorchid Fairymeadow: Hey Kane
[11:11] xstorm Radek: Jack why not put Patch Linden on it do to he was the person that did make up the half the corsica contenent map in the first place ?
[11:12] Trinity Nabob: yes by all means push back everything that needs to be done, over what will only continue to make business harder on residential community owners.
[11:12] Jack Linden: xstorm, Patch manages the Concierge team, he wouldn’t be the person to build roads. The content team does that work
[11:12] Jude Towton: YEah, plan more things when you cant do what you planned a year and a half ago
[11:12] APinkSwan Beauchamp is Online
[11:12] Dytska Vieria: From my time here, it seems the content team moves on before finishing previous work.
[11:13] Jack Linden: So what did you guys think of the recent monthly island pricing blog post?
[11:13] xstorm Radek: yes but patch linden know what corsica continent is and it seems blondin linden had no clue what it was
[11:13] CPU Core: i thought.. why bother
[11:13] CPU Core: only good news for a minority
[11:13] Jude Towton: Heh, it’s only right, in my opinion, then again how could LL justify an INCREASE with all the land out there empty
[11:13] Trinity Nabob: it makes me angry. it sets the ground work for all tiers to be increased to $295.00 per month next year.
[11:13] Equinox Pinion: Why is it not on the featured blog posts..many people dont see it that way!!
[11:13] Driftwood Miles: Totally awesome we have something that allows us to plan
[11:14] Jack Linden: Trinity, what makes you think that?
[11:14] Equinox Pinion: and whene will you post bout te changes in Jan 2011…in 6 months??
[11:14] Jack Linden: We certainly haven’t said that
[11:14] Zeebster Colasanti: Jack, i myself am very surprised that it took you so long to come up with what is basically no news
[11:14] Ciaran Laval: I thought it was fine Jack
[11:14] Trinity Nabob: the transfer after 1 May 2010 will increase the tier to the new owner.
[11:15] Jack Linden: Equinox, something like that yes. We want to give these regular updates so that people get plenty of assurance over pricing
[11:15] Frankie Antonioni: If you increase tiers on mainland, why not make the mainland hold the same number of avatars, as the islands?
[11:15] Jude Towton: LL cant possibly justify a raise …just look at land prices now
[11:15] Melody Regent nods in agreement with Zeebster
[11:15] Driftwood Miles: Some changes didn’t bear thinking about Zeebster so status quo for some was fgood news indeed
[11:15] Trinity Nabob: Already ppl are offering less for GF estates.
[11:15] wildorchid Fairymeadow: i think anyone who has been here for years should get a tier break..if they own land now…wwe are the ones who have stood by you ,,we deserve a tier break
[11:15] Equinox Pinion: and why is it not in the featured blogs???
[11:15] xstorm Radek: Jack why not get more then one linden person working the mainland continents do to it seem blondin linden has to much on his plans to do it all at this time ?
[11:16] Jack Linden: Zeebster, it may be no news in some respects, but from the business perspective of understanding our revenues and forecasts, deciding to push out that grandfathering is not a trivial decision
[11:16] CPU Core: I only want to be hearing about price decreases
[11:16] wildorchid Fairymeadow: with economy at its lowest ..we are all dying here.
[11:16] Qie Niangao: so… is there more news coming about new land products?
[11:17] Jude Towton: Yep, my place that did wonderfully in the old Mature land for three years is now dying, thanks
[11:17] Jack Linden: xstorm, we have a team of people that work the mainland, but Patch and Blondin are not part of that team
[11:17] Trinity Nabob: “deciding to push out that grandfathering is not a trivial decision” it’s statements just like that one that make me believe that LL will increase all tiers to $295.00
[11:17] Zeebster Colasanti: i totally understand, but it’s not a very complex decision. i was looking for something along the lines of: “your tier remains grandfathered on all your sims as long as you continue adding sims to your holdings”. that sort of option would have required some in depth analysis that would require time.
[11:18] Jack Linden: Trinity, we have no such plans in the works right now. I’m sorry that you see this as a precursor to some badness but really, that wasn’t our intention
[11:18] xstorm Radek: then why do we get told to talk to blondin linden by the moles when it comes to work we need done in a mainland sim that we own ?
[11:18] Sarah Nerd has entered the sim.
[11:18] Melody Regent: Certainly not something to delay the announcement and break your word, but that is just me
[11:18] Yohan Pintens has entered the sim.
[11:18] Drongle McMahon has entered the sim.
[11:19] Jack Linden: Zeebster, those kinds of programs where we reward growth are a part of our future. I also expect that we will be looking hard at loyalty based rewards too
[11:19] Trinity Nabob: Unfortunatly Jack I have come to expect that what one Linden says is later changed by another Linden.
[11:19] Melody Regent nods in agreement with Trinity
[11:19] Equinox Pinion: again jack…why is it not in the featured blog post so everybody can see it
[11:20] Master Kane: Yep, that business polotics , trin
[11:20] Master Kane: lag.. sorry
[11:20] Jack Linden: Well melody, I’m sorry that it arrived a few days later than expected. It took a lot of work to get the decision and we feel it was the right decision and worth taking that extra time on
[11:20] Melody Regent: mmmhmmmm
[11:20] CPU Core: rewarding growth is not so good for those who start late.. they will be at a disadvantage
[11:20] wildorchid Fairymeadow: “loyalty Based Rewards”..Humm hopeit isn’t another dress up like the 40′s party..not to be snide
[11:20] Trinity Nabob: Jack answer me this; Why the date of 1 May 2010? Are all servers switching to Class 5′s on or about that date?
[11:21] Jack Linden: Equinox, good question.. not sure why it wasn’t a featured post.. I hadn’t realised it wasn’t
[11:21] Jack Linden: hey Yohan, would you be able to stop the helicopter noises?
[11:21] Jude Towton: heh, same reason ACP wasn’t announced properly
[11:21] Master Kane: 2nd Q, trin?
[11:21] Nber Medici: Can someone give me a link to the post?
[11:21] Alexxa Despres: I would imagine a decsion like that has to be hashed and rehashed with many many people..
[11:21] Yohan Pintens: haha I have my sound muted so I didn’t realize I was making them
[11:21] xstorm Radek: Jack is a person owns a full mainland sim with a road that needs building what linden do we talk to then for it seems we have been on the old game of paper chase and its a bit silly
[11:21] Qie Niangao: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/land/blog/2010/02/05/island-monthly-fee-pricing-for-2010
[11:21] Equinox Pinion: you should really change it jack
[11:22] Jack Linden: thanks
[11:22] Equinox Pinion: many people have no clue about it yet
[11:22] Jack Linden: phew that was loud.
[11:22] Yohan Pintens: my apologies
[11:22] Jack Linden: xstorm, I would suggest you ping Michael Linden or create a Land ticket
[11:22] Arawn Spitteler tries not to mute stuff
[11:22] Nber Medici: ty
[11:23] Nber Medici has left the sim.
[11:23] Frankie Antonioni: If mainland is going up, why not make mainland Class 5.
[11:23] Zoha Boa: Jack, How many C4 sims have been converted to C5allready ?
[11:23] Master Kane: there is no more class
[11:23] xstorm Radek: Jack we have been down that path and we was told its up to you as to what sims the road gets put in .
[11:23] Ciaran Laval: Mainland isn’t going up and mainland is already at least class 5
[11:23] Master Kane: its all “5″
[11:23] Sarah Nerd: mainland is going up?
[11:23] wildorchid Fairymeadow: LOL !!! 
!!!
[11:23] Driftwood Miles: class has been declassified
[11:23] Jack Linden: Frankie, we don’t have class as a designation any more, but all Mainland is on the more recent hardeware
[11:24] Jack Linden: *hardware
[11:24] Frankie Antonioni: Ok.
[11:24] Trinity Nabob: When i arrived here a message prompted that informed me that this simulator was different than the one i was running.
[11:24] wildorchid Fairymeadow: change the name to protect the innocent
[11:24] Jack Linden: Zoha, some of them have been.. we have another set to get through I believe
[11:24] Qie Niangao: Trin: must be a 1.36 pilot region
[11:24] Zoha Boa: how many % has been done ?
[11:24] Trinity Nabob: Put mine at the top of the list please Jack.
[11:24] Master Kane: pilots, trin
[11:24] CPU Core: so mainland prices are definitely going up?
[11:25] Jack Linden: Zoha, I’m not sure. Let me quickly look..
[11:25] Mitch Gaffer is Offline
[11:25] xstorm Radek: Jack the head mole tells us thats they can not do any thing with out you telling them what to do next
[11:25] Jude Towton: CPU, he was saying the servers were going up
[11:25] Jack Linden: Okay, this is my quick calc but it looks as though over half have been done
[11:26] Trinity Nabob: So why the 1 May 2010 date?
[11:26] Zoha Boa: that’s jack’s RL birthday, trinity
[11:26] Jack Linden: xstorm, as i said.. we wil put all the roads in and have built a huge amount already. i’m not sure when they expect to get to Corsica
[11:26] Jack Linden: Hehe Zoha, it’s not! My birthday is October
[11:27] Zoha Boa: lol
[11:27] wildorchid Fairymeadow: ooo everyone get a tier break on birthday one month free
[11:27] Trinity Nabob pokes Zoha
[11:27] Driftwood Miles: Jack are there any new land product impending?
[11:27] wildorchid Fairymeadow: happy Birthday
[11:27] Master Kane: lol
[11:27] Melody Regent: [11:16] Qie Niangao: so… is there more news coming about new land products?
[11:27] Driftwood Miles: lol
[11:27] Vex Streeter is Online
[11:27] Jack Linden: Trinity, we wanted to give some notice and yet make a clear start point for that change. May 1st was what we decided was the best date
[11:27] xstorm Radek: So Jack my next steps is to abuse report the linden lab road do to not in fit looking shape to be called a road for our trendone sim
[11:28] Trinity Nabob: Thx for the answer Jack.
[11:28] Master Kane: and not to mention its the start of most business 2nd quarter
[11:28] Master Kane: or first, on some
[11:28] Jack Linden: Driftwood, one of the things we may look at soon is whether we can provide more flexible options for Homesteads, for example one with more prims but less agents than the current one. It actually came out of a discussion we had in this office hours
[11:28] Jack Linden: So we’ll look at that
[11:29] wildorchid Fairymeadow: kane stop that..hehe financial report
[11:29] Equinox Pinion: i dont get the 1st May…you told people HS will stay GF till end of June…now with the transfer they dont….i really dont get linden logic most of the time
[11:29] Jack Linden: Otherwise no plans for new land products
[11:29] Master Kane:
[11:29] Zeebster Colasanti: would that option be modifiable within the region config or is it something that would need to be defined at purchase time?
[11:29] Master Kane: Well.. gosh wild.. I made a whole whopping – (minus) 2K so.. 
[11:29] Melody Regent: Exactly Equinox, but it was a well thought out, strenuous process
[11:30] Driftwood Miles: ok, sounds interesting…..and one I would hope would work the other way as well…more agents less prims
[11:30] Arawn Spitteler: End of GF will cause a hit to resale value, in principe
[11:30] Trinity Nabob: I noticed a new page “coming soon” islands with prebuilt themes Jack, that is indeed new.
[11:30] Qie Niangao: (Thanks for the new-products answer, Jack.)
[11:30] Jack Linden: Zeebster, if we did it then it would be a purchase option and something you could convert a different homestead to. But we’d have to look at it because I’d rather the estate owner were able to choose the setup without needing us to change things
[11:31] Zeebster Colasanti: agreed. i don’t like those conversion fees
[11:31] xstorm Radek: Jack a petition do to lack of work on the corsica continent is next
[11:32] Jack Linden: Driftwood, totally.. if you consider that a Homestead has two levers (3 with script resource), then we’d like estate owners to have more access to those levers so that they can decide how to spend their resources
[11:32] Perdita Muggins has entered the sim.
[11:32] Qie Niangao: oh, by the way… the KB still talks about an *upgrade* fee from Class 4 to Class 5… surely LL won’t still charge for that anymore, right?
[11:32] Jack Linden: In general, empowering estates to build products is part of our roadmap.
[11:32] Zeebster Colasanti: Jack: at some point i’ve heard speculation that controls will be introduced to limit resource usage on a per parcel basis so that content on one parcel would not affect performance of other parcels on the sim. is this being pursued in development? any ETA?
[11:32] Driftwood Miles: works for me, thanks
[11:32] Master Kane: hey that includes me.. doesnt it?
[11:32] Master Kane:
[11:33] Arawn Spitteler: Andrew Hour is good for parcel limit discussions
[11:33] Master Kane: crap keeps up likes this.. id be out soon
[11:33] wildorchid Fairymeadow: it would be a Hardware Upgreade
[11:34] Trinity Nabob: If LL were to upgrade on their own without authorization for charges, they would be in trouble with cc companies. Sooo I think it would be all on them.
[11:34] Jack Linden: Zeebster, that is the script limits work that is ongoing. The new Viewer will, for the first time, begin to show script load as a measure on Land and for Avatars
[11:34] Jack Linden: To begin with it will just be shown as info on a new panel, but over time it will become tied to tools that let people manage script resource
[11:34] Zeebster Colasanti: excellent. when is the new viewer due to come out?
[11:34] Melody Regent: view is expected when? and NO, I am not asking for a date, but a general… month would be nice
[11:35] wildorchid Fairymeadow: do we have Numbers on those limits
[11:35] Master Kane: phewy.. good… no bouncing boobs … more geared around performance items
[11:35] Melody Regent: Viewer*
[11:35] Jack Linden: Zeebster, the RC/beta process is set to start quite soon now
[11:35] CPU Core: Jack has anything changed with Homesteads to justify the increased pricing? such as less homestead per machine?
[11:35] Jude Towton: *coughs* That’s LL “soon”…could be months
[11:35] Ciaran Laval: Homesteads aren’t increasing in price, they’ve extended the grandfathered pricing
[11:35] Trinity Nabob: nods @ Jude
[11:36] Melody Regent: He is asling about the CURRENt increase
[11:36] CPU Core: no i mean from the original price
[11:36] Master Kane: Hi Taal
[11:36] Moon Corrigible has an Aslan moment.. they call all times ‘soon’
[11:36] Master Kane: -a
[11:36] Melody Regent: Talarus, I was missing the dripping, thank you for coming
[11:36] CPU Core: the reason all this became an issue.. they increased to these prices because they was saying it costs more for them to be ran
[11:36] Jack Linden: wildorchid, we have been collecting giant amounts of data on script usage and so we’re pretty confident that we can set limits (eventually) that only impact the very heavy users
[11:36] CPU Core: but im not seeing it
[11:36] xstorm Radek: well jack i do not see much hope for the corsica contenent
[11:36] Jack Linden: Most people will be well within any limits we set
[11:36] xstorm Radek has left the sim.
[11:36] CPU Core: i am still seeing the same amount of sims on 1 server as before.. only difference they made is price
[11:36] Arawn Spitteler: Every moment is near, if you look at it close enough
[11:37] Moon Corrigible: BAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yeah and look how well that worked with adult content.. oh you crack me up sometimes Jack
[11:37] Ayesha Lytton is Online
[11:37] wildorchid Fairymeadow: Okay Thank you..leves me out i hope
[11:37] Equinox Pinion: CPU..not really…they just change them from a normal priced produtc to an overpriced product
[11:37] Ciaran Laval: Oh that old wound CPU, we’ve been waiting since November 2008 for an answer to that
[11:37] Jack Linden: Jude, won’t be months. Jack’s ‘soon’ is short term than that
[11:37] MoonMaiden Horner is Online
[11:37] Zeebster Colasanti: Jack: those limits would be applied on a per sim basis, rather than per parcel, i assume? Will we know if one of our sims gets “penalized”?
[11:37] CPU Core: yes its about time they started telling us the answer
[11:37] Driftwood Miles: lol Equi
[11:37] Jude Towton: So, givethem a month
[11:37] Master Kane: Jack… is there some where we can check to see what other region is on the same host that we are on? (Or if anyone else knows, and not the one that doesnt update for ages)
[11:37] Frankie Antonioni: ow mny scripts are you allowed on a 512 sq meter, or 1024 sq meter?
[11:38] Frankie Antonioni: how
[11:38] Arawn Spitteler: Why not just charge more, for Tech Six Service?
[11:38] Trinity Nabob: Jack in the end as residential estate owner we will have to limit the scripts used by our customers. Those that can afford the extra fees will once again draw the largest amounts of rental customers. Or as I like to call it “the great divide between the have’s and the have nots”
[11:38] wildorchid Fairymeadow: course my butt is highy scripted…yikes wild with no butt.a nightmare..
[11:38] Inbred Texan is Offline
[11:38] Driftwood Miles: there re a couple of websites that do that Master Kane
[11:38] Relic Starbrook is Offline
[11:38] Jack Linden: Zeebster, the way we’re thinking about it is that it would work very much like prims. A region level limit but that within that the amount of land you own in the region would dictate how much script load you could cause
[11:39] Melody Regent: wait, what did I Miss? Extra fees? for what?
[11:39] Inbred Texan is Online
[11:39] Master Kane: Oh Trin.. you mean the “lagtards”? )))
[11:39] Trinity Nabob: yup
[11:39] Melody Regent: What fees?
[11:39] Zeebster Colasanti: excellent. Jack, that is precisely what i am hoping to see. the sooner the better
[11:39] wildorchid Fairymeadow: to pay you for being his secretary
[11:39] Jack Linden: Frankie, it won’t be about the count of scripts, but the amount of script memory (and URLs) the scripts use
[11:40] wildorchid Fairymeadow: wild zips it now
[11:40] Jack Linden: If you want more detail I would definitely encourage you to attend Babbage Linden’s office hours
[11:40] Moon Corrigible: OH that is cool Jack
[11:40] Master Kane: translator off please
[11:40] Jack Linden: He is part of the team engineering that change
[11:40] Trinity Nabob: So what kind of fees are we talking about? what is considered excessive drag?
[11:40] Moon Corrigible has left the sim.
[11:41] Ciaran Laval: Who mentioned fees? Stuff just won’t work if it goes over the limit
[11:41] Jude Towton: and what tools does a mainland sim owner have to emasure heavy scripting?
[11:41] Jack Linden: Trinity, I didn’t mention fees.
[11:41] Jude Towton: measure
[11:41] Trinity Nabob: I see so we won’t have any choice.
[11:41] Melody Regent: where did the fees come from?
[11:41] Jack Linden: As Ciaran says, hitting the limit will mean that you’d need to remove some script load before adding more
[11:41] Driftwood Miles: the ether
[11:41] Perdita Muggins: so it wil basically be a new land parameter, then ?
[11:41] Melody Regent: like a prim limit Trin
[11:41] Jack Linden: The interesting part will be whether it drives content creators to be more efficient, and we expect that it will
[11:42] Melody Regent: you cant go over it, no matter how much you want to
[11:42] Trinity Nabob: I assumed that there would be fees associated with these limits. So sorry when ever I think LL and new “feature” I now automatically think “fees”
[11:42] CPU Core: The limits wont do anything
[11:42] Jack Linden: Perdita, a new measure on land, yes
[11:42] Melody Regent: Why would there be fees?
[11:42] wildorchid Fairymeadow: Yesah script limits
[11:42] CPU Core: the limits are on memory.. the problem is CPU cycles
[11:42] Arawn Spitteler wonders how many sim owners would be willing to pay extra, for breaking lag inducing content
[11:42] Trinity Nabob: Ok so what kind of limit are we looking @?
[11:43] Jude Towton: and how do we know how “heavy” scripting is, in a mainland sim?
[11:43] Qie Niangao: Last I heard, the script memory limits for parcels were strictly *area* based, not prims… so Homesteads get kind of a good deal that way, right?
[11:43] Dytska Vieria: LL needs to fix the main cause of lag first before setting limits on otherwise optimum scrips
[11:43] Dytska Vieria: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895
[11:43] Jack Linden: Trinity, this is about giving estates control over their performance in ways that we can’t right now. So although we talk about script limits, in fact those limits will be quite generous. The more important point is that estate owners get to know where the load is, manage to the level of performance they want, and remove ‘excessive’ script load because they wil be able to find it
[11:44] Trinity Nabob: Thx Jack
[11:44] Jude Towton: Oh…”Estates” only?
[11:44] CPU Core: i script using low amounts of memory can do far more damage than another using loads
[11:44] Perdita Muggins: ANd what of use mainland dwellers , in that case ?
[11:44] Motor Loon is very excited about scriptlimits
[11:44] Trouble Streeter: well, fixing several of the script bugs that cause excessive cough::mono::cough script load will help all of us
[11:44] Jack Linden: Jude, as with prims there will clearly be region caps on scripting in Mainland too
[11:44] Melody Regent: Jack, we have asked ALOT for more groups or more roles in groups. Are you guys even bothering to make motions in that direction? or should we just let it go?
[11:44] Ciaran Laval: mainlander dwellers will be able to see which of their scripts are causing issues
[11:44] Jack Linden: But mainlanders will not have as much control
[11:44] Trinity Nabob: Well thats good news
[11:45] Robin Lobo has entered the sim.
[11:45] Melody Regent: I already have an iron control on script limits, so lets get them on the grid. Tomorrow is good for me. Make it so numner One
[11:45] Dytska Vieria: 1st quarter, right?
[11:45] Jude Towton: Iwouldnt begin to know hoe to find heavy scripteditems…is there a tool to seek them out?
[11:45] Jack Linden: Melody, that decision sits with other teams (it’s not a Land or Support related issue as such) but I believe there are plans to revamp/rework the way groups work
[11:45] Trinity Nabob: lol Melody
[11:45] Trouble Streeter: whose office hours do we stalk for the groups question, Jack?
[11:45] Ciaran Laval: The new viewer should provide you with more info Jude, it’s due in beta soon apparently
[11:45] Jack Linden: hehe Melody
[11:45] Master Kane: Mel.. if and when you have this in NC WITHOUT the translators crap.. could you send it to me , please Ma’am?
[11:46] Melody Regent: and whoes office hours do I go to to talk to them about that?
[11:46] Jack Linden: Jude, we will provide tools
[11:46] Jack Linden: That’s part of the same project
[11:46] Melody Regent: I will Master
[11:46] Jude Towton: Do otherwise, Cirian, there isnt any tool I can buy?
[11:46] Master Kane: Thank you!
[11:46] Jude Towton: So otherwise*
[11:46] ATechwolf Foxclaw has entered the sim.
[11:46] Melody Regent: I dont see a translator, come stand by me
[11:46] Melody Regent: Motor wont bite
[11:46] Melody Regent: Missy might
[11:46] MissMissy Moonbeam: hey!
[11:46] Master Kane: I dunno.. he looks pretty mean lol
[11:47] Motor Loon: ..much
[11:47] Trouble Streeter: so Jack… whose office hours do I stalk to get an answer on group functionality?
[11:47] Jack Linden: Trouble, good question.. I’m not sure who, in thtat team, does office hours. I expect there will be some public discussion when they get into the project proper
[11:47] Jude Towton: I’m not hearing a translator either
[11:47] Master Kane: is that “much” or “Munchies” lol
[11:47] Trouble Streeter: ahh. please let us know when you know whose
[11:47] Motor Loon: probably a little of both Mr. Kane
[11:47] wildorchid Fairymeadow: ㋡
[11:47] Perdita Muggins: it has been switched off, I think
[11:47] Trouble Streeter: given that ‘public discussion’ seems a bit hard to come by these days
[11:47] Master Kane: oh .. then Ill saty right here then.. thanks though
[11:47] Melody Regent: are YOU wearing it MK?
[11:47] Master Kane: lol
[11:47] Trouble Streeter: and I cna’t find anything on the new blogoforumapalooza
[11:47] wildorchid Fairymeadow: i got munchies for ya
[11:48] Ciaran Laval: I don’t know Jude, I know there are some script measuring tools but I don’t know if they work on mainland. You can check the stats ar on mainland though, it’s just not that informative about what is causing the problem
[11:48] Dytska Vieria: Ask in SL Answers!
[11:48] wildorchid Fairymeadow: ooops adult content
[11:48] wildorchid Fairymeadow: back off
[11:48] Master Kane: what mel? I dont use them if thats what you mean
[11:48] Drongle McMahon: Jack. Please buy a landbot from Yohan and use it to set autoreturn on abandoned plots. This will save Lindens being called out to remove griefing stuff.
[11:48] Jude Towton: Thanks Ciaran
[11:48] Master Kane: translators that is
[11:48] Motor Loon: lol Drongle…
[11:48] CPU Core: Jack, Why do Homesteads cost 70% more for their share of a server than a mainland?
[11:49] CPU Core: i mean island
[11:49] Jack Linden: Drongle. we can already automate cleaning abandoned parcels but there are good reasons why we don’t do it
[11:49] Jack Linden: Most abandonment is accidental
[11:49] Chavi Skomoroklov accepted your inventory offer.
[11:49] wildorchid Fairymeadow: causes lag
[11:49] Mitch Gaffer is Offline
[11:49] Jack Linden: It makes no sense to zap all the content/builds until we know whether it was intentions
[11:49] Jack Linden: *intentional
[11:50] Dytska Vieria: after a few months go by, it should be obvious
[11:50] Frankie Antonioni: There is one near my store that has lots of objects that people have left.
[11:50] wildorchid Fairymeadow: put sim to sleep if not in use
[11:50] Silken Wilder is Offline
[11:50] Ardy Lay: Maybe “abandon land” needs to be a 21 step process.
[11:50] Melody Regent: If you see it, open a ticket, they will get to it faster
[11:50] Perdita Muggins: months or years, in some cases
[11:50] Jack Linden: Dytska, it actually isn’t. But it *is* obvious when we look at it. So we currently don’t automate
[11:50] CPU Core: dont egt answers without a mob anymore
[11:50] Master Kane: 23 steps ardy… all the alphabet
[11:51] Talarus Luan: Jack, any update on the microparcel cleanup that you indicated was going to be happening “over the next two weeks” a month ago?
[11:51] rodrigo Nyn has entered the sim.
[11:51] Ciaran Laval: Someone suggested that before wildorchid but what would be the overheads in bringing it back up when someone decides to TP there?
[11:51] Arawn Spitteler: 26 steps could get to be annoying, if someone really does mean to abandon land, but allowances should be made for drunkenness.
[11:51] Jack Linden: Tal, i don’t have much update there (that i can share). Sorry.
[11:51] Zoha Boa: Jack, So by the end of june (in good 4 months)..you are going to make an announcement for the price policies of 2011? Then we have 6 months until the end of the year.
[11:52] Drongle McMahon: Do you have any you can’t share?
[11:52] wildorchid Fairymeadow: no different then transfering a sim when sold…
[11:52] Ardy Lay: Master, my alphabet has 26 letters in it.
[11:52] Trinity Nabob: If someone abandon’s their estate back to LL how come they are not given a refund? After all LL resells that server space.
[11:52] Jack Linden: Ciaran, that’s the key issue. The user experience of waiting 3 or 4 minutes for the region to come up wouldbe poor
[11:52] Qie Niangao: Jack: We’re eager for progress there, shareable or not.
[11:52] Perdita Muggins: ANy progress is good, on that front, for sure
[11:52] Frankie Antonioni: Why not check, and see when they were online. The person could be gone for months?
[11:52] Ciaran Laval: Ah wildorchid we’re at crossed purposes, I thought you were talking about sims going idel when nobody is on them
[11:53] wildorchid Fairymeadow: ㋡
[11:53] Jack Linden: Zoha, I’m not sure when exactly we will talk again about pricing but we *are* committed to giving residents long term direction so they can plan
[11:53] Master Kane: but jack.. this is all new equipment and software… why would it take that long?
[11:53] Talarus Luan: OK, any revised timeframe when you WILL be getting to it?
[11:53] Master Kane: JK JACK!
[11:53] Equinox Pinion: but we would love to have a clear date from you jack
[11:53] Arawn Spitteler: Estates might wind up in Court, since mostly retired people can afford time and money
[11:53] Ciaran Laval: Agreed Jack, otherwise there would be potential in the concept.
[11:53] Jack Linden: Frankie, often people share land, use alts, let groups use their land etc.
[11:53] Equinox Pinion: or we will have to argue again and angain about it
[11:53] wildorchid Fairymeadow: to see how it works and get the kinks out
[11:53] Master Kane: that too wild
[11:54] Melody Regent: can you tell us it it will be BEFORE the end of 2010?
[11:54] Master Kane: Im game
[11:54] Jack Linden: We have so many different types of usage that we found automation caused us more work than less
[11:54] Jack Linden: As undoing the removal of content is tough
[11:54] Ciaran Laval: Ah you’ve gotta love discovering umpteen different use cases Jack
[11:54] Frankie Antonioni: On another not, why not allow some free advertising in events?
[11:54] Driftwood Miles: Jack I know this is off topic and i apologise, but Tom Hale mentioned the possibility of Mesh making an appearance on the grid. It has since SLCC there has been absolutely zeor mention of it including M’s dreams and fantasy’s for the future. Is this a bit of scotch mist or is there substance to it?
[11:54] Ardy Lay: “Oh, they WANTED it to be ugly.”
[11:54] Talarus Luan: Policy: If you abandon your parcel, after 30 days, automated cleanup will occur.
[11:55] Jack Linden: Melody, absolutely.. we will talk again about pricing well in advance of the end of year
[11:55] Jack Linden: Ciaran, we have nothing but grey areas hehe
[11:55] Trinity Nabob: [11:54] Jack Linden: Melody, absolutely.. we will talk again about pricing well in advance of the end of year. *saved
[11:55] Zeebster Colasanti: hahaha!
[11:55] Motor Loon:
[11:55] Melody Regent: dont count on in Trin
[11:55] Jack Linden: Driftwood.. look to the blogs! It’s going to be a great couple of months
[11:55] wildorchid Fairymeadow: gray areas..hehe unmute..J?K
[11:55] Trinity Nabob: never do Mel, never do.
[11:55] Melody Regent: A great man once said, it would be death to forget ones history
[11:56] Driftwood Miles: WOW
[11:56] Driftwood Miles: dusts off the maya
[11:56] Yohan Pintens: great for who?
[11:56] Equinox Pinion: lol
[11:56] Trinity Nabob: hehe
[11:56] Motor Loon: oh no jack… we’re not getting mesh’s are we… dammit…
[11:56] Qie Niangao: (Driftwood: but don’t expect mesh in Viewer 2.0 right away: Q says it won’t be there.)
[11:56] Talarus Luan: Yes, it is great when you have the microparcel parasites still harassing neighbors.
[11:56] Jack Linden: Lots of good stuff coming through the year Driftwood, a lot of projects that started last year will start to land in this one
[11:56] Jude Towton: Jack, just one last thing…do you know if ONE person looks around, actively searching for those not in complaince, or do they rely totally on AR’s?
[11:57] Greywolf Moonlight is Online
[11:57] Driftwood Miles: I am just over the moon that it has more substance than I thought….I was beginning to think tht it was a pipe dream!
[11:57] Talarus Luan: They rely on ARs pulled from a very small hat
[11:57] Jack Linden: Jude, it’s a combination. ARs are definitely the key source though
[11:57] Master Kane: So basically.. we know NOT to ask for dates or a general time line… we have learned this LAST MONTH
[11:57] wildorchid Fairymeadow: omg..i am not peaking in windows
[11:58] CPU Core: What linden actually flys around finding rule breaksd without ARs?
[11:58] Jack Linden: Driftwood, not a pipe dream. We’ve had internal demos for some time and they look pretty amazing
[11:58] wildorchid Fairymeadow: like me
[11:58] Melody Regent: Speaking of SLCC… any word?
[11:58] Talarus Luan: That just makes it all the more scary
[11:58] ATechwolf Foxclaw has left the sim.
[11:58] Trinity Nabob: now if we could just make more things “external” we might then be our own judges of progress.
[11:58] wildorchid Fairymeadow: i look amazing
[11:58] Driftwood Miles: I can imagine…and I think (I’m not uber technical) it will be a massive boost for SL
[11:58] ATechwolf Foxclaw has entered the sim.
[11:59] Jack Linden: Melody, not sure what you mean by slcc?
[11:59] Master Kane: lol wild
[11:59] Ciaran Laval: The convention thingy Jack
[11:59] Trinity Nabob: lol wha?
[11:59] Equinox Pinion: pretty amazing for lindens…you sure it will be pretty amazing for us too as you are so way out of touch with us???
[11:59] Driftwood Miles: Isn’t that resident organised?
[11:59] Trinity Nabob: Second Life Community Convention = SLCC
[11:59] Ciaran Laval: Yes drift
[11:59] Jack Linden: yes, i mean i know what SLCC is but it’s a community organised event, not Linden Lab
[11:59] Jack Linden: Though we have sponsored it int he past
[12:00] Melody Regent: I know that, but you sponsor thus the reason for the Q
[12:00] Trinity Nabob: oh notices the distancing…interesting.
[12:00] Jack Linden: I think there was an slcc website but I haven’t heard any discussion on when the next one may be
[12:00] Melody Regent: Oh look, hours are over
[12:00] Melody Regent: :/
[12:00] Jack Linden: No distancing trinity! We love the event, and many Lindens have attended
[12:00] Jack Linden: it just isn’t one that we ourselves run
[12:01] Driftwood Miles: We need a European version
[12:01] Arawn Spitteler: Something really differnt, is I’ve found a SNS which allows advertising within ten miles of my location.
[12:01] Driftwood Miles: Bournemouth would be good
[12:01] Talarus Luan: Need to have it somewhere else than 2000-3000 miles away
[12:01] Jack Linden: Driftwood, agreed that would be great. I would love to attend something like that
[12:01] Ciaran Laval: Ham Rambler tried to organise one in Amsterdam last year, not sure how it went
[12:01] Trinity Nabob: good I have a “how build your first sl penis” tutorial to finish.
[12:01] Jack Linden: Okay folks, I have to run. Thank you all for coming along
[12:01] Qie Niangao: thanks Jack.
[12:01] Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack
[12:01] Driftwood Miles: thanks Jack
[12:01] Jude Towton has left the sim.
[12:02] Trouble Streeter: thx jack
[12:02] Zoha Boa: take care
[12:02] Equinox Pinion: take care jack
[12:02] Arawn Spitteler should learn the more sophisticated attachment construction
[12:02] wildorchid Fairymeadow: Yesah and i got a window seat
[12:02] MissMissy Moonbeam: ty, Jack, tc
[12:02] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/156/114/38
[12:03] Jack Linden is Offline