Jack Linden meeting – January 14th 2010
[11:00] Talarus Luan: Now, for the L$64,000 question.. will Jack be here? 
[11:00] Jack Linden has entered the sim.
[11:00] Melody Regent: He is on his way
[11:01] Talarus Luan: Cool 
[11:01] Toy LaFollette: he’s on now
[11:01] Qie Niangao: He’s in the sim
[11:01] Melody Regent: [11:00] Jack Linden has entered the sim.
[11:01] Qie Niangao: greetings, Jack
[11:01] Jack Linden: hey everyone
[11:01] Equinox Pinion: hi jack
[11:01] Master Kane: hey.. what do you know.. on time there jack lol
[11:01] Zoha Boa: hi jack
[11:01] Toy LaFollette: Hiyas Jack ㋡
[11:01] Driftwood Miles: Hello Jack
[11:01] Frankie Antonioni: Hey Jack.
[11:01] Trouble Streeter: heya Jack!
[11:01] Arawn Spitteler recals a poem
Jack be nimble,
Jack be quick,
Jack jumped over to Office Hour
[11:01] Talarus Luan: He’s abn impostor! What did they do with the old lady we’ve come to know and love?!?! *sighs*
[11:01] Melody Regent: Morning Jack
[11:01] Cytherea Eagle: Greetings Jack.
[11:02] Jack Linden: How is everyone this week? Looking forward to pay day?
[11:02] Driftwood Miles: theres a pay day?
[11:02] Master Kane: oh we get 2 in january?
[11:02] Ciaran Laval: it’s still over a week away, it’s getting painful!
[11:02] Toy LaFollette gets paid monthly grrrrr
[11:02] Melody Regent: I am looking forward to that announcemenet you have been teasing us about for weeks on end
[11:02] Zoha Boa: pay day ?? didn’t knew LL did do that ?
[11:03] Master Kane: where is our xmas bonuses too lol
[11:03] Jack Linden: I know Ciaran!
[11:03] Mendelssohn Andel has entered the sim.
[11:03] Jack Linden: Melody, me too! 
We’re on it, we still plan to post!
[11:03] Zoha Boa: if you need help to write your text for the blog… I will write it for free !!
[11:04] stormi Capalini has entered the sim.
[11:04] Equinox Pinion: and when do you plan to do that
[11:04] Arawn Spitteler figures Linden Labs could simply pay its employees L$250,000/wk stipends, or let them sublet Islands
[11:04] Equinox Pinion: as we all know you are not good related to deadlines
[11:04] Athena Madrigal has entered the sim.
[11:04] Jack Linden: Hehe Zoha
[11:04] Jack Linden: Equinox, we said before end of Jan, so that’s the aim.
[11:04] Melody Regent: They said before the end of the month, so I guess they have till midnight Jan 31
[11:05] Jack Linden: We’re just talking and planning internally at the moment with that goal in mind
[11:05] Master Kane: Jack, do we get a “reach around” with all these teases?
[11:05] Arawn Spitteler: Deadline Dilation?
[11:05] Master Kane:
[11:05] Frasky Fizzle has entered the sim.
[11:05] Talarus Luan: Deadline Inflation
[11:05] Zoha Boa: kacj, you know also that we aren’t buying HS sims anymore until you make that blog post ? Our HS sims are 98% full
[11:05] Jack Linden: a ‘reach around’ Master?
[11:05] Master Kane: nvm jack was “teasing”
[11:06] Driftwood Miles: you don’t want to know Jack
[11:06] Master Kane:
[11:06] Jack Linden: 98%, that’s pretty good
[11:06] WolfBaginski Bearsfoot: /my tries not to look too puzzled.
[11:06] Talarus Luan: That’s a dangerous question around here. <.<
[11:06] 14 Xu: I understood Master, lmao
[11:06] Jack Linden: So, I have a few things to update you on
[11:06] Toy LaFollette wonders if SL regfions qualify for TARP
[11:06] Melody Regent: lets get started Jack, we only have an hour
[11:06] Melody Regent:
[11:06] Talarus Luan: Some regions qualify for being COVERED by tarp. <.<
[11:06] Master Kane wiggels into seat ready for the info
[11:07] Master Kane: lol tal
[11:07] Jack Linden: First of all, the estate ban bug that lets people get around the bans – the fix is looking like going out in 1.36.1, in March.
[11:07] Charlene Trudeau: yay
[11:07] Equinox Pinion: finally!
[11:07] Master Kane: WOohoo! botu time
[11:07] Talarus Luan: Finally found it?
[11:07] Trouble Streeter does happy dance of joy, then looks around sheepishly
[11:07] Sonya Haight: somebody pick Mel up
[11:07] Melody Regent: About damn time, thank the heavens
[11:07] Alexxa Despres: Yay….. taht is GREAT news!!
[11:07] Driftwood Miles: HOOOOOOO AHHHHHHH
[11:07] Jack Linden: The pJira repros were really useful, so thanks to folks that did that
[11:08] LSL Scientist: will this fix also prevent banned people from rezzing grief to the parcels?
[11:08] Zoha Boa: why does it still takE 2 months to fix it then ?
[11:08] Melody Regent: Why so late? cant you fix it sooner?
[11:08] Jack Linden: Zoha, it’s down to the release and qa cycles, obviously the coding is just one part of the time it takes
[11:08] Jack Linden: It has to go through testing etc
[11:08] WolfBaginski Bearsfoot knows enough about software development to understand, while sharing the regret
[11:08] Jack Linden: But it does look to be a complete fix, so we’ll see how it goes vs the repros in testing
[11:09] Qie Niangao: speaking of 1.36… but wait, there’s more!
[11:09] Jack Linden: Next up..
[11:09] Talarus Luan: Yeah, no sense kicking out a fix that doesn’t work, or introduces more problems.
[11:09] Alexxa Despres: Just happy to see a light at the end of the tunnel..that’s cool Jack
[11:09] Trouble Streeter: exactly, Talarus!
[11:09] Driftwood Miles: hteres a tunnel?
[11:09] Jack Linden: You guys have, i know, been asking about us pushing on further with ending some of the land cutting and bad parcelling that is still going on..
[11:10] Arawn Spitteler: Well, as long as it doesn’t effect Linden Security Issues, its not that urgent
[11:10] Driftwood Miles: I miss all the good stuff
[11:10] Alexxa Despres: 
Drift
[11:10] Talarus Luan: We have?
[11:10] Melody Regent: they have
[11:10] Jack Linden: It does look as if we’re still having some bad practice from certain land dealers so we’re going to step that up over the next couple of weeks
[11:11] Master Kane: damn good
[11:11] Ciaran Laval: you can tell when he’s got something good to say, he teases it out with …
[11:11] Master Kane: oops (pg)
[11:11] Master Kane: lol
[11:11] Jack Linden: As you know, I can’t talk about specific people, but we’re very committed to getting it fixed
[11:11] Frankie Antonioni: Why not fix it so that you can’t sell land that is below 512 sq meters?
[11:11] Cytherea Eagle: I have handed over 40k so far Jack
[11:11] Talarus Luan: Does that mean you will open negotiations with them?
[11:11] Jack Linden: So more resource there which is good
[11:11] Drongle McMahon:
[11:11] Jack Linden: Tal, honestly.. i think in some cases we’re probably past the negotiation point. But the team will take the appropriate action
[11:12] Talarus Luan: Really? Awesome.
[11:12] Qie Niangao: taking action is good. very, very good.
[11:12] Jack Linden: Next up.. Mainland prices.. you guys are probably aware that they are pretty low at the moment
[11:12] Yohan Pintens: just push the damn button and fix it.
[11:12] Melody Regent: yes
[11:12] WolfBaginski Bearsfoot: I expect loud creaming in the forums.
[11:12] Talarus Luan agrees with Yohan. *nodnods*
[11:13] Charlene Trudeau: so low, Jack, that a friend bought a full region mainland instead of going estate
[11:13] Jack Linden: I think we’re seeing averages for completed sales of below L$4 per meter most weeks now.
[11:13] Arawn Spitteler: Why would anyone want a premium account, but to sublet, which can only be done on an Estate
[11:13] Cytherea Eagle: yes, i wa shocked upon my retur to se so lo
[11:13] Timo Daehlie: inclusive Zindra Jack ?
[11:13] Greywolf Moonlight: just keep in mind that there are some Mall owners who parcel off 16 sqm parcels to allow there Mall tenants to place their stalls in search
[11:13] Jack Linden: So that means we’re still holding on any new supply of Mainland, however we will at times be recycling abandoned or reclaimed parcels when the neighbours have a claim and approach us about them
[11:14] Ciaran Laval: Greywolf 16m parcels don’t show in search
[11:14] Talarus Luan: Greywolf, those situations aren’t at risk.
[11:14] Jack Linden: Time, Zindra has been a little higher I believe, which you’d expect with it being a smaller more limited continent
[11:14] Melody Regent: you wont add more regions? does that include the Linden home regions Jack?
[11:14] Jack Linden: *Timo
[11:14] Yohan Pintens: You’re two continents too late to limit the supply in hopes of recovery Jack. Nice try though.
[11:14] Charlene Trudeau: you pretty much have to have a min 256m2 now don’t you to show in search?
[11:14] Kianta Design – Pregnant Tummy V.5.2.1 ADVANCED: Mystical is craving some wacky food combos these days.
[11:15] Ciaran Laval: 128 I think, I don’t think the UI even allows you to tick the box anymore if you have a parcel smaller than 128
[11:15] Timo Daehlie: the average of Zindra are indeed higher .. normal mainland is hard to sell .. even at 1.8 L$ m2
[11:15] Qie Niangao: Charlene, it’s a weird number… like 144, I think. was supposed to be 128 but didn’t quite work.
[11:15] Frankie Antonioni: I think I saw some 16 sq meters in search.
[11:15] Zoha Boa: >128; starting from 144 (for search)
[11:15] Jack Linden: Melody, we’re in Beta for Linden Homes, and listening to the feedback we get from the folks in that Beta test. Next of course we have to look at when we launch it for all Premiums
[11:15] Cytherea Eagle: somehow Timo is seeing my @s
[11:15] Cytherea Eagle: oops 32s
[11:15] Melody Regent: but jack, adding mainland is adding mainland, including beta
[11:15] Charlene Trudeau: Frankie, those might be remnant from before you couldn’t check the box any more.
[11:15] Timo Daehlie: still need to pick them p cytherea
[11:15] Jonit Ivory: umm, Linden Home regions seem awfully empty most of the time, I hardly get any visitors
[11:15] Jack Linden: So we still intend to move forward (Linden Homes is not really the same as Mainland, as it can’t be traded)
[11:16] Dennis Lagan: the beta homes are meant for newbies, i dont get what the value is of having feedback from a few experienced users
[11:16] Charlene Trudeau: any chance of silent pregnancy for the meeting?
[11:16] Melody Regent: I muted it
[11:16] Master Kane: agreed char
[11:16] Charlene Trudeau: thanks
[11:16] Greywolf Moonlight: ty, Char
[11:16] Cytherea Eagle: so I assume small cts stil showin search yes?
[11:16] Timo Daehlie: yeps
[11:16] Jack Linden: Dennis, we want to get a feel for how the web choices worked for them, whether the builds were right and so on. It’ll still be really valuable insight
[11:17] WolfBaginski Bearsfoot: What struck me about the Linden Homes beta is that it didn’t look to be encouraging any sort of community. TP in and tp out for your fun.
[11:17] Jack Linden: WolfBaginski (man that name rocks), I totally agree – we need to put some energy into building community and we have a lot of ideas there to help
[11:17] Jonit Ivory: my point is that it seems the beta was nto well received
[11:17] Jonit Ivory: not*
[11:18] Arawn Spitteler: As neighborly as a high rise apartment?
[11:18] Jack Linden: Jonit, that’s interesting feedback – the messages and emails we have had, have been almost entirely positive so hopefully you’ll fill in the survey we send out and give us your perspective
[11:19] Jonit Ivory: WolfBaginski, yes, it’s just a place to open boxes
[11:19] Jonit Ivory: not a community
[11:19] Jack Linden: So, those were my updates.. what questions do you guys have this week?
[11:19] Jonit Ivory: fpr sure I will
[11:19] Timo Daehlie: What about the campaign Jack .. is it still secret ?
[11:20] WolfBaginski Bearsfoot: I don’t know what you call them in America: Little boxes, made of Linden prims… That sort of no-community feel.
[11:20] Jack Linden: Campaign Timo?
[11:20] Arawn Spitteler wants his prims made of Ticky Tacky, whatever that is.
[11:21] Timo Daehlie: i asked you last year a couple of times. A campaign to attract new members, You said you guys were working on soemthingsecretly
[11:21] MY Nimbus is Offline
[11:21] Cytherea Eagle: Any plans to market SL a little harder to bring in new residents? Any plans other than not bringing more land online to help with land prices?
[11:21] LSL Scientist: what is the current status of residents who are late with their payments loosing their inventory forever? one friend of mine(creative) lost his RL job and been missing for months, prolly late with payments too
[11:21] Ciaran Laval: They’ve been advertising, people have seen adverts on Youtube and elsewhere, a recent one seems to bear a resemblance to a recent film
[11:21] Talarus Luan: They stopped purging delinquent accounts
[11:21] Sarah Nerd: Yea I saw the Avatar movie rip of ads
[11:22] Sarah Nerd: off*
[11:22] Jack Linden: Ahh hehe, not exactly secret but yes, there is a lot of energy at the Lab going into new residents, how we introduce them to Second Life, give them cool things to do and most of all, make it all easier.
[11:22] Yohan Pintens: Cytherea: they would if they could
[11:22] Cytherea Eagle: and land movement
[11:22] Vernes Veranes: I agree with Cytherea.
[11:22] Frankie Antonioni: Instead of selling open space sims, why not set thm a side, annd use them for races, and combat?
[11:22] Jack Linden: The new Viewer for example, which most of you wil lbe aware of, is a large part of that
[11:22] Dennis Lagan: if you see the numbers i fear the energy goes the wrong way
[11:22] Jack Linden: Yeah, LSL, we no longer purge in the same way that we used to
[11:22] Dytska Vieria: Is the new viewer going to go into First Look?
[11:23] Master Kane: Jack, how is DB 5.0 going, other than the blog post
[11:23] LSL Scientist: awesome, thanks <3
[11:23] Greywolf Moonlight: will the new viewer be as good as Emerald?
[11:23] Jack Linden: Dytska, i’m not sure if it will, it may go straight to RC.
[11:24] WolfBaginski Bearsfoot: Maybe a pointer, I happened to look up “Concierg” on the Wiki. Not something to attract new customers, but there’s a vagueness about what it is: what you get for the money. Not a good thing, I suggest.
[11:24] Driftwood Miles: will the viewer be launched in Q1 Jack?
[11:24] Talarus Luan: “first look” was really just a pre-alpha phase. I think it has been more or less a “first look” for some time.
[11:24] Melody Regent: Jack, when are you going to make premium accounts more attractive?
[11:24] Jack Linden: Hehe Greywolf, it will be excellent! It has some very cool features, I think people will enjoy it a lot
[11:24] Cytherea Eagle: I was thinking maybe an application for driod or smart phones that allow you to view and set for sale/ change price of land without having to log into the grud.
[11:25] Cytherea Eagle: grid*
[11:25] Sarah Nerd: Landmachine does that
[11:25] Marianne McCann waits for the world and its people to rez
[11:25] Jack Linden: Melody, I think we spoke about that last week – we’re going to continue to plan and add perks specific to Premium members. The Linden Home is just the first one.
[11:26] Jack Linden: We know we have to keep pushing that value up
[11:26] Master Kane: Jack, DB 5.0?
[11:26] Toy LaFollette wavies at Mari
[11:26] Timo Daehlie: double the free tier !
[11:26] Greywolf Moonlight: It just amazes me that the features that Emerald has could have been implemented into the regular viewer long ago and hasnt.
[11:26] Cytherea Eagle: ty Sarah, any app in store to ajoin their current services?
[11:26] Marianne McCann waves at Toy
[11:26] Jack Linden: Master, I don’t have any more info on that I’m afraid
[11:26] Marianne McCann: Indeed, Timo!
[11:26] Marianne McCann grins
[11:26] Timo Daehlie: lets vote
[11:26] Master Kane: ok jack, thanks
[11:26] Jack Linden: Hehe Timo, we get asked for that quite often.
[11:26] Qie Niangao: I agree, too, Timo. would help sop up some of that excess mainland sloshing around the grid
[11:26] Melody Regent: Will some more of those perks be announced this month? How long are we still waiting for those? Linden homes is nice enough, but not a huge perk
[11:27] Timo Daehlie: dont wait longer then Jack
[11:27] Sonya Haight: hi Alliez
[11:27] Timo Daehlie: abandoned land is better off in new premiums hands
[11:27] Vernes Veranes: The streaming content aspect of SL keeps putting (new) people off. Some sims consist of 90% of static content. Why not do something with that?
[11:27] Alliez Mysterio: Soyna HI Nice to see you
[11:27] Charlene Trudeau: top suggestions: let them use their credits on estate too, give premium folks more groups (please, beg, please)
[11:27] Jack Linden: Qie, do you sense there is more spare land now than, say, a year ago? The numbers have it as being very consistent but people often tell me that they think there is more now
[11:28] Alliez Mysterio: yes there is
[11:28] Marianne McCann: I don;t know abotu Qie, but I would definitely say there’s more out there
[11:28] Jett Skytower is Offline
[11:28] Talarus Luan: I hope the new viewer cache works better than the old viewer cache; would solve a lot of that, Vernes.
[11:28] Qie Niangao: seems more, and… supply must be high compared to demand, with prices this low. Ain’t that how it works?
[11:28] Jack Linden: We watch the stats around abandoned and ‘no owner’ land closely., it’s not changed much at all
[11:28] Frasky Fizzle: i have abandoned land all around my mainland, was one plot, late 2009 was up to 5 abandoned plots
[11:28] Jack Linden: So some of it must be down to perception
[11:28] Greywolf Moonlight: more groups (50) would be a HUGE plus to entice more people to premium
[11:29] Marianne McCann: Moles are building on parcels that could not even be sold an auction, huge swatches of yellow for better than average prives even in the old SF and color sims, etc
[11:29] Master Kane: I agree with more gorups, some use SOB and those things are scripted like a bad dog and takes a major hit.. openign up more group slots might stop some of that lag that those thigns cause
[11:29] Melody Regent: if you have 50 open on five sim a year ago and 50 open in 10 sim this year… that is ineeded more land. same %% but more land. Stop adding regions
[11:29] Yohan Pintens: Jack: that or you’re stats are really really broken. The % of occupied land is significantly higher now than it was a year ago
[11:29] Jack Linden: Qie, I think that is true yes.. well, a combination or supply and lack of demand of course. I also think the estates have been offering more additional value over time
[11:29] Jack Linden: Which will be attractive to some folks
[11:29] Alliez Mysterio: Well, I was given a sim today if I will pay trans fee or they were going to give it back to LL
[11:29] Arawn Spitteler expects the new viewer won’t work at all, for those o us without Graphics Cards: LSL, could you make a comment on WEB-1406?
[11:30] Ciaran Laval: ???
[11:30] Melody Regent: I get those too Alliez, I have actually turned some down.
[11:30] Master Kane: SOB = SOM . sorry about that
[11:30] WolfBaginski Bearsfoot: Greywolf, more groups sort of needs better control of notice and group IM in the viewer. Not so relevant for this meeting, but stuff ripples across the whole system
[11:30] Zoha Boa: i even got a GF FP sim for 100us$ last week
[11:30] Master Kane: incoming
[11:30] Hailie Callisto: I also bought a sim very very very cheap and probbaly could have gotten it for free but I just couldnt take it for nothing. The guy wanted to return it to LL.
[11:30] Jack Linden: Arawn, will take a look at that pJira
[11:30] Cytherea Eagle: I am actually on a netbook right now
[11:30] Melody Regent: I would be happy if we had more ROLES in the groups
[11:30] Arawn Spitteler: Estates spare the Lab from having to deal with end user, yet cost more than Mainland Sims
[11:31] Jack Linden: No worries Master, I got what you meant
[11:31] Melody Regent: I often have to make ANOTHER group becuase I run out of roles
[11:31] Master Kane: ah ok phewy
[11:31] Marianne McCann: Melody – yes. The whole groups system needs help
[11:31] Trouble Streeter: that would be useful, Mel.
[11:31] Trouble Streeter: and not just cause every time you make a group… ::grin::
[11:31] Master Kane: didnt want to call YOU a SOB… thought Id change that LOL
[11:31] Dennis Lagan: jack, how are the bots going? i still see massive amounts of bots everywhere.
[11:31] Arawn Spitteler: I’d like Scripts to be role sensitive, but don’t recall PJiraing that.
[11:31] Hailie Callisto: yes, bots and traffic gaming is still rampant
[11:32] Jack Linden: It’s true that we’re seeing quite a bit of transfer activity as people manage their estates. We broke the 10,000 homestead point very recently too
[11:32] Master Kane: yeah.. and when they get rid of the bots , they start using xploders
[11:32] Marianne McCann: Hailie – true. I still see that often
[11:32] Driftwood Miles: Anshe has been working hard
[11:32] Alliez Mysterio: About Homesteads…..whats going to happen with the tier ?
[11:32] Hailie Callisto: How is LL controlling the traffic gaming now? Bots are still very high in numbers and being counted towards traffic
[11:32] Charlene Trudeau: Alliez, they haven’t released any news on that
[11:32] Alliez Mysterio: ok
[11:33] Jack Linden: Dennis, that’s a good question, we’ve been looking again at that. We’ll be removing bot traffic from search soon (expect a blog post shortly), but it looks as if we’re going to again have to start to take firm action with some venues [11:33] Alliez Mysterio: Thought I might have missed it
[11:33] Master Kane: hallie. now now.. those are “Scripted Agents” (cough BS cough)
[11:33] Melody Regent: they will release the news on that by midnight Jan 31st
[11:33] Frankie Antonioni: Why not allow camping. But limit the number of slots for each parcel, and have only one avatar from each computer count as traffic?
[11:33] Master Kane: legalized gaming
[11:33] Dytska Vieria: Jack, one perk I would like to see is that if a person has 1 or more Mainland sims that they could have a Homestead without having to buy an island.
[11:33] Dennis Lagan: ok
[11:33] Cytherea Eagle: traffic bots marketed as “models” lol hat a loophole that is…any plans to crack down?
[11:33] Jack Linden: Alliez, we’re aiming to blog to the community on our plans for CY10 and pricing before the end of the month. It’s something we feel is important
[11:34] Jack Linden: So you should know very soon
[11:34] Arawn Spitteler: Any sort of benefit is going t be gamed; its part of th game
[11:34] Alliez Mysterio: Great tyvm
[11:34] Charlene Trudeau: if they are really in the shop showing the product, they shouldn’t count in traffic numbers but be allowed
[11:34] Hailie Callisto: lol rigth master, I forgot o.o
[11:34] Frankie Antonioni: If you have 5 avatars on your computer, only 1 would count as traffic.
[11:34] Master Kane: oh you mean they TALK/TYPE??? where he HELL have you been to.. I wanna go
[11:34] Jack Linden: Frankie, camping also causes problems andof course still inflates the search rankings unfairly
[11:34] Master Kane: hallie
[11:34] Jonit Ivory: Jack, I have emailed you my thoughts on the beta
[11:35] Talarus Luan: There is a flag in your web account profile that allows you to specify an account that runs as a “scripted agent”
[11:35] Jack Linden: Increasingly, gaming of search will be taken very seriously
[11:35] Jack Linden: Jonit, thanks! Really appreciate it
[11:35] Greywolf Moonlight: I think SL is more of a buisiness tool now, not really considered a “game” anymore…
[11:35] Yohan Pintens: eventually you mean
[11:35] Ciaran Laval: I’m still not sure how camping on a parcel that advertises camping unfairly raises traffic as people go there to camp, or they used to
[11:35] Zoha Boa: jack..if it is taken very seriously..WHY are there still people gaming trafic…after 8 MONTHS !!
[11:35] Master Kane: all Ive seen is cloud model bots… whats is the use for those when they are supposed to be wearing the product and you cannot SEE the product cause they are a cloud?!
[11:36] Jack Linden: Charlene, it’s such a fine line though, between ‘useful’ and ‘gaming’, and that sort of subjectivity is very difficult. If they genuinely are not for gaming then they will identify them as Bots
[11:36] Master Kane: Stupid is what stupid does I suppose
[11:36] WolfBaginski Bearsfoot: When I’m hanging arounf NCI places, a lot of newcomers seem to ask about how they can get Linden Dollars. A lot of this traffic abuse must be feeding off that sort of search for money.
[11:36] Talarus Luan: Microparcel/adfarm barons have been “taken seriously” for almost two years. <.<
[11:36] Melody Regent: I think that if you make a rule about something, you need to be ready to take firm action to support that rule, immediatly, not a year later
[11:36] Frankie Antonioni: Some people spend thousands on the classifieds, and that also influnecs search.
[11:36] Cytherea Eagle: o check out the la in the sim San from bots
[11:36] Hailie Callisto: I agree mel
[11:37] Talarus Luan: 8 months is just a drop in the bucket.
[11:37] Cytherea Eagle: I sorry..
[11:37] Cytherea Eagle: cant type today, I’m Sorry!
[11:37] Yohan Pintens: Melody: you must be new if you believe thats how LL has ever worked. (I know you’re not new)
[11:37] Ciaran Laval: Well to be fair to the sim in San, they’re selling bots, advertising their usage and demonstrating that is a perfectly fair marketing tactic.
[11:37] Master Kane: NCI has a money ball too.. if all the members would pay in to that.. then there wouldnt be a problem
[11:38] Toy LaFollette: had a money ball in NCI
[11:38] Jack Linden: Zoha, we have thousands of locations and so of course, you will still see the misuse of bots and search gaming, but as we step up the enforcement around that the risks of being deemed to be gaming, and therefore suspended or removed from search will get ever more real
[11:38] Talarus Luan: demonstrating what is a perfectly fair marketing tactic?
[11:38] Master Kane: oh they took it away?
[11:38] Melody Regent: I know that is not how LL works, never has been. But it wont stop me from saying it. If you say you are going to Do something, then by &*( gods, DO something.
[11:38] Cytherea Eagle: to be fair, i was once bashed for my use of script tha laed sims although I did nt meanto
[11:38] Ciaran Laval: demonstrating how the bots work Tal, how they can move, talk etc.
[11:38] Toy LaFollette: yup, it was being gamed
[11:38] Master Kane: ah
[11:38] Talarus Luan: Oh.
[11:38] Master Kane: I scratch my comment then
[11:38] Cytherea Eagle: and hence rules were passed
[11:38] Jonit Ivory: I saw a store today, 6 bots all in a row, umm showing off different outfits
[11:38] Hailie Callisto: so should we ar the people using bots?
[11:38] Jonit Ivory: 6?
[11:39] Cytherea Eagle: one bot per location is enouh to demostrate
[11:39] Driftwood Miles: Even Google is gamed
[11:39] Master Kane: Fetish Shoe is one Hallie
[11:39] Vernes Veranes: Model-bots and scripted agnets should simply not count in traffic.
[11:39] Charlene Trudeau: agreed, Vernes
[11:39] Ciaran Laval: scripted agents won’t count, that’s the point
[11:39] Cytherea Eagle: 6 is too many
[11:39] Jonit Ivory: true enough they had different outfits, I suppose that was a validation in the eyes of teh store owner
[11:39] Master Kane: in a invisa prim box about 400 meters up that HAS been reported several times
[11:39] Talarus Luan: Yeah, but google has thousands of employees and spends hundreds of millions of dollars a year to mitigate “gaming”
[11:39] Yohan Pintens: no way if they limit bots then LL User hour counts they tout will drop too much and their entire marketing plan will be in the crapper.
[11:39] Vernes Veranes: Luring in silly players is something else completly.
[11:39] Cytherea Eagle: the la is the issue in my eyes
[11:39] Jack Linden: Jonit, of course you don’t know in that situation whether they have identified them to us as Bots
[11:40] Jack Linden: If they have, then there is no problem
[11:40] Yohan Pintens: should be a 100 bot per avatar minimum requirement
[11:40] Jonit Ivory: but Jack, does the new identibot scheme yet figure in traffic?
[11:40] Cytherea Eagle: I think san had the potential for 4000+ and was running at 536
[11:40] Jack Linden: Jonit, I don’t believe so, at least not all of it.
[11:41] Master Kane: Jack.. there needs to be a IP ban on people that are caught more than once for using bots and capped on making NEW accounts for bots.. that will stop it
[11:41] Jonit Ivory: regardless of that, it causes unnecessary lag for real people
[11:41] Vernes Veranes: Isn’t the faulty ‘ appearance’ system caused by console-clients detectable?
[11:41] Jonit Ivory: well in that case, it is blatant gaming
[11:41] Jonit Ivory: and very annoying
[11:41] Jack Linden: Master, IP is a very crude device, and doesn’t tend to be that effective
[11:41] Cytherea Eagle: bots do have their purpose but if it affect the sl quality of life…hmmmm
[11:41] Arawn Spitteler: IP is gamed routinely
[11:41] Jack Linden: We also have a lot of people that share an IP or have dynamic IPs
[11:42] Master Kane: thats the reason and it is effective … sooner or later they will get the point
[11:42] WolfBaginski Bearsfoot: Master Kane, the way my ISP works, I could end up with a banned IP address the next time I power-cycle my ADSL modem.
[11:42] Arawn Spitteler: Minds me of the way I crashed Crash Me
[11:42] Master Kane: ok then.. MAC ban
[11:42] Master Kane: there is MORE than one way to do it
[11:42] Talarus Luan: >.<
[11:42] Vernes Veranes: Master: too easy to avoid
[11:42] Cytherea Eagle: also, bots dont pay tier and it scews numers
[11:42] Master Kane: true… Vern
[11:43] Frankie Antonioni: For the next viewer, why not have a code that counts only one avatar as traffic, and any addital avtars not count as traffic. And let those tht own, or rent land know who is a bot/alt, and who is not?
[11:43] Arawn Spitteler: Viewer Code is there to be gamed
[11:43] Jack Linden: ..and Viewer code is opensourced too
[11:43] Toy LaFollette wonders if ummm only premium accts should count towards traffic? (DUCKS) :
[11:43] Jack Linden: Haha Toy, boldly said!
[11:43] Ardy Lay: When I use Search – Places to find something new I look for places with little or no reported traffic.
[11:44] Melody Regent: Personally when I go to a store with ‘model bots’ they dont rez for me, always glowy balls anyway. Also, if there is more than one, I simply leave. THere are enough great designers out there that I dont need to shop at a palce that uses bots
[11:44] Jack Linden: That has often been suggested
[11:44] Master Kane: thats actually a good idea Toy!
[11:44] Hailie Callisto: I think thats a good idea actually Toy
[11:44] Vernes Veranes: What will that say to non-premiums?
[11:44] Ciaran Laval: I don’t think that’s helpful at all considering the vast majority of sims are private estate where even the owner doesn’t need to be premium
[11:44] Talarus Luan: Go Premium?
[11:44] Sarah Nerd: I like the model bots personally. Easier to view seams and whatnot
[11:44] Master Kane: yeah , when they arent clouds sarah
[11:44] Master Kane:
[11:44] Jonit Ivory: the solution! only premiums count for traffic, in their Linden homes
[11:44] Jack Linden: It’s also beeen suggested that, for example, a Premium awards 5x as much Traffic as a basic, and that a Concierge account gives even more
[11:44] Vernes Veranes: Ok, let me reitterate, what will that say to the non-premoiums who also contribute to the SL experience?
[11:45] Charlene Trudeau: lol. jonit
[11:45] Kobi Beaumont is Offline
[11:45] Melody Regent: Jack, I would like to be able to control Esate tools offline. Add/remove, back, upload terrains, save terrains… retsrt sims… all that via the website. What are the chances of making that sorta thing more friendly for us?
[11:45] Cytherea Eagle: I do not think bots are the issue, they have a use but over use can be a pain in the rump for surroundin residence
[11:45] Bronson Blackadder: renderunloadedavatars
[11:45] Talarus Luan: Ooo.. Concierge gives more!
[11:45] Bronson Blackadder: in debug
[11:45] Relic Starbrook is Offline
[11:45] Charlene Trudeau: concierge should give more groups ;P we NEED them lol
[11:45] WolfBaginski Bearsfoot: Maybe the value of an AV to traffic counts could be fractional. Premimu account count as 1. Non-premium as 0.5, or something more complicated, so that it’s worth attracting newcomers.
[11:45] Equinox Pinion: you can ddo that with a bot mel
[11:45] Marianne McCann: Melody – not to mention being able to have 8consistent* terrain textures.
[11:45] Melody Regent: I dont want a bot, I want the controls to come from LL.
[11:46] Melody Regent: No need for a bot
[11:46] Frankie Antonioni: The only ones that should have bots is LL.
[11:46] Arawn Spitteler: More Groups for Premium Members?
[11:46] Equinox Pinion: than wait a few years
[11:46] Hailie Callisto: I dont think giving more to cig level residents is a good idea. I own several sims but many businesses do not own a si m but are very sucessful….thats like rewarding the rich or the smarter. Its not fair
[11:46] Vernes Veranes: Franky: I strongly disagree
[11:46] Jack Linden: Melody, we would love to build some tools that can allow remote management of land. We’re much closer to that technically due to some of the work on Linden Homes actually
[11:46] Yohan Pintens: use a bot in one hand, wait for LL to implement something in the other, see which one gets full faster.
[11:46] Ciaran Laval: Bots are often used because the tools aren’t availabl;e via LSL, group inviters are one example.
[11:46] Marianne McCann: That would rock, Jack
[11:46] Jude Towton: HEre it is…LL has no idea what to do about them, and they wont. This will go around in circles forever because even if they come up with something, which is unlikely, they wont have the means to enforce it *cough cough* adult policy *cough*
[11:47] Charlene Trudeau: well, I think on the group front there should be a level of success that does award more, the more you do in world, the more you need them, even if thats heavy volunteer work
[11:47] Toy LaFollette: I still dont use all my group slots…. guess I learned to conserve long ago
[11:47] Arawn Spitteler: The only truly fair proposal, is to reward people for being me.
[11:47] Melody Regent: I would also like to see more EMs. I know that small estates may not need that many, but for those of us wil larger estates, I would like to be able to see that… or, maybe you can add a GROUP that has Estate Manager powers.
[11:47] Alexxa Despres: LOL Arawn
[11:47] WolfBaginski Bearsfoot: Jack, Have you read Halting State by Charles Stross?
[11:47] Hailie Callisto: What if LL provided a model service for those who need models. They could be rented accounts thru LL that are specifically designed to not count as traffic and if you need a model, you have to use an LL based bot.
[11:47] Jack Linden: hehe Arawn
[11:47] Marianne McCann: Group slots become hell when you have to rent mall spaces, or handle different land groups. I still wish one could set re/script rights on aparcel by parcel basis
[11:47] Toy LaFollette: isnt that a reward in itself, Arwen? ㋡
[11:48] Greywolf Moonlight: we desperately need more group slots, and if it means going premium to get more, I think alot of people would
[11:48] wildorchid Fairymeadow: hehe
[11:48] Marianne McCann: rez/script*
[11:48] Cytherea Eagle: On another note, i wouldlike to see the ability to set land for sale to anyone in a particular group. Instead of one individual, maybe the officers of an entire group.
[11:48] Jack Linden: Melody, I like the idea of EM powers being Group roles, that would seem very elegant to me
[11:48] Master Kane: good and bad idea.. hallie.. people wouldnt pay for a bot.. but that would do alot of good id think
[11:48] Vernes Veranes: Hailie, what an elaborate way to avoid signing an avatar as scripted agent?
[11:48] Charlene Trudeau: I’d like to see it too, Jack
[11:48] Jonit Ivory: Yes we do, trying to remove oneself from Hippo groups is a nightmare, you have to return to the place where you first clicked
[11:49] Charlene Trudeau: but then we definitely need more groups!
[11:49] Charlene Trudeau: lol
[11:49] Master Kane: scripted agent = legalized traffic gaming
[11:49] Saffia Widdershins is Online
[11:49] Marianne McCann: What I had in mind a while back on rez rights on land: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12078
[11:49] Ciaran Laval: scripted agents won’t count pretty soon in traffic scores so not legalised gaming at all
[11:49] Master Kane: yeah.. well I will stop saying that when it DOES not show
[11:50] Jack Linden: Very soon Master
[11:50] Hailie Callisto: ok so they dont *rent them* but are a provided service. At least it would be more controleld and gaming would be less effective to those gaming the system
[11:50] Melody Regent: Jack, in the Estate Tools, you have us the ability to ALLOW whole groups on a sim. How hard would it be to BAN a whole group? There are some groups out there that we would find good to ban anyone a member of.
[11:50] Arawn Spitteler: Something I haven’t Jiraed yet, in addition to Partnerships, should be servitudes. We should be able to designate our owners, wehther Gorean or Botted. But we should also have a celebrated friendship page, and I might hae Jiraed that.
[11:50] Hailie Callisto: good idea mel, banning a whole group would be great
[11:50] Jack Linden: It’s certainly possible Melody, but would it really help? Dropping a group and getting invited back in is a very easy thing to do
[11:50] Cytherea Eagle: and maybe more land controls via your SL accout interface. ie. the ability to set for sale/ change price of land without loging in
[11:51] Bronson Blackadder: worst enemies page
[11:51] Melody Regent: Yes it would help, becuase there are some groups that people WONT leave
[11:51] Frankie Antonioni: Why not replace premium with a land sales fee. 10% for half, or whole sim, and higher amounts fo smaller parcels. Say 25% for 512 sq meters, to 1024 sq meters.
[11:51] Cytherea Eagle: would reduce bot use as well
[11:51] Melody Regent: and Jack, I am not above making it harder on them
[11:51] Jude Towton: Or groupsone doesnt want, say, RL pic sellers on the land
[11:51] Arawn Spitteler: I think I suggested Goups and Nationalities, for theAccess and Bann lists, of lands
[11:51] Charlene Trudeau: Jack, its not that easy a lot of times, you can’t always just add yourself back to the group, you have to be invited, and that means annoying someone else to invite you
[11:51] Jack Linden: Frankie, not all Premiums are merchants
[11:51] Melody Regent: SO they have to leave a group to get here, fine. But that still makes them have to takes some steps to get on the sims
[11:51] Jack Linden: Or even landowners
[11:51] Charlene Trudeau: Don’t talk to me about the panic when lag hits and you drop your own estates group bya ccident
[11:52] Melody Regent: and, it also keeps others from coming at all. Some people will be to dumb to know to leave the group
[11:52] Charlene Trudeau: instead of whatever you meant to
[11:52] Toy LaFollette: mpremium and not in any business
[11:52] Frankie Antonioni: But you would sell more land that way.
[11:52] Jack Linden: Arawn, you would want to ban by nationality?
[11:52] Master Kane: had that happen charlene
[11:52] Arawn Spitteler: Different standards of censorship
[11:52] Arawn Spitteler: What’s appropriate in Holland might not be appropriate in Germany
[11:52] Charlene Trudeau: and you ahve all the shops that want you to join their group to get special freebies or discounts and adding and dropping those all the time are simply a pain, beside if you drop it then you don’t get the notices
[11:53] Bronson Blackadder: arawn… for shame:/
[11:53] WolfBaginski Bearsfoot interjects, “None of us really sell or rent land, We’re in the business of selling people the chance to have fun.”
[11:53] Arawn Spitteler: Some countries allow for Internet Gambling
[11:53] Melody Regent: I am not sure how we got from banning a group to banning a nationality
[11:53] Jack Linden: I guess if the Group ban also took into account whether you had been in the group recently – that would probably help a lot
[11:53] Ciaran Laval: They actually talked along those lines at one stage Arawn, saying they shouldn’t set policy by the lowest common denominator
[11:53] Jonit Ivory: Arawn, that’s not viable, and frankly, being ^Welsh, I’d get banned more than the French *sighs*
[11:53] Arawn Spitteler: We should be able to have opinions
[11:53] Alliez Mysterio: But you are not in some country you are in SL
[11:53] Master Kane: theres really no reason to join a group (being sarcastic here) because everyone seems to spam with unwanted notecards when you land somewhere AFTER you leave , even a few days later
[11:54] Bronson Blackadder: @jonit…lol
[11:54] Driftwood Miles: LOL Jonit!
[11:54] Charlene Trudeau: by the time you have two for your own estates, two for another estate you’re an em for, two more for two more you em for, five for your rp area (and could have more if you were really active) and three for relay for life (in the slow time, I’ll have more later)…..
[11:54] Melody Regent: If it doesnt take that much to get us a tool like that, and WE, the end users think it would be very much needed, why would you not give it to us?
[11:54] Cytherea Eagle: lol I would be the first to be place on that list
[11:55] Toy LaFollette: Maybe…
[11:55] Toy LaFollette: offewr more groups for additional cost per month
[11:55] Arawn Spitteler: Nationality Bann would be through IPA
[11:55] Jack Linden: Melody, I don’t disagree at all. If estate owners really feel that would be helpful we could look at it
[11:55] Melody Regent: how do we let you know?
[11:55] Arawn Spitteler: Added groups for Premiums and Concierge?
[11:55] Zoha Boa: it would be very helpfull
[11:55] Jack Linden: Is there a pJira?
[11:55] Talarus Luan: JIRA!
[11:55] Hailie Callisto: I think it would jack
[11:55] Melody Regent: people here are saying it would be a help
[11:55] Qie Niangao: Mel, you mean Estate bans, right? not parcel
[11:55] Vernes Veranes: I thin such too would quickl become annoying, asa grou couldquickl be baned fo the ation o a sinle peron
[11:55] Talarus Luan: hah
[11:55] Charlene Trudeau: I think it would, Jack, and I’m against ‘guilt by association’ but there are some groups that are known trouble
[11:55] Alliez Mysterio: someone let me knowo what else happens please, have to rent land
[11:55] Melody Regent: should I get a petition signed?
[11:55] Melody Regent: a letter writting campaign?
[11:56] Hailie Callisto: tc Alliez
[11:56] Dytska Vieria: JIRA!
[11:56] Talarus Luan: That’s basically what JIRA is for, but I don’t find it very compelling as a way to prompt LL to do something.
[11:56] Melody Regent: I did my one Jira
[11:56] Jonit Ivory: no to JIRA, Second life answers is the key, along with questions on why my friend was banned, and is it okay to dress as a woman
[11:56] Talarus Luan: Gack. SLA
[11:56] WolfBaginski Bearsfoot: Charlene, I know of one such group, maybe pretty small, but it closed down and they started up a new group.
[11:56] Jack Linden: no need for open letters! but if you get a good pJira created with some comments from folks that agree, then I’ll take it forward and discuss it with the engineers
[11:56] Cytherea Eagle: but gave me an idea…. grid-wide bannin of a user with one interface from all o your and….possible…already available for non-estate owners?
[11:56] Ciaran Laval: Jack’s answered the dressing as a woman one over the last few months
[11:56] Qie Niangao: heh. SLA *must* be good: it’s on the MotD all the time now
[11:57] Charlene Trudeau: lol, Ciaran
[11:57] Vernes Veranes: Ok, my typing is horrible. A group would quickly find itself banned for the action of one person.
[11:57] Jack Linden: Does anyone else hear constant walking noises?
[11:57] Driftwood Miles: Lol Ciaran and how it was answered!
[11:57] Jonit Ivory: Qie, I read SLA for fun
[11:57] Seattle LeShelle: jacqulien
[11:57] LSL Scientist: grid wide ban can be done with scripted gadgets
[11:57] Driftwood Miles: what a hottie
[11:57] Master Kane: yep i do
[11:57] Arawn Spitteler: Also, groups should be able to list ther parcels, publicly or privately
[11:57] Bronte Wade: Jack – Who is dealing with Camping issues of late, many place are again using campers and camping bots – is it still being policed ?
[11:58] Qie Niangao: Jonit, you have a wicked sense of humor. And I don’t mean that in a nice way. :p
[11:58] Ardy Lay: wildorchid Fairymeadow shoes are running wild.
[11:58] Cytherea Eagle: yes, this I know but could be a cool feature in upcoming viewer update
[11:58] Jonit Ivory: I do, and I know you do not
[11:58] Hailie Callisto: I do, I had to turn my sound off. Shoes with clicking heels should be banned, lol
[11:58] Jack Linden: Bronte, the governance folks deal with it. If you see bad cases, please feel free to AR
[11:58] Talarus Luan: wildorchid’s show
[11:58] Talarus Luan: *shoe
[11:58] Bronte Wade: how many times do we have to AR ? lol …sounds sacastic but would we say 15 times excessive ?
[11:58] Marianne McCann: Hailie – should clicking heels be added to the parcel ban list?
[11:58] Toy LaFollette at clicking shoes on grass textures hehehe
[11:58] Marianne McCann winks
[11:58] Toy LaFollette: LOL !!! !!!
[11:59] Hailie Callisto: LOL YES mari!
[11:59] Jack Linden: okay, well folks, I need to vanish so that I can make my next meeting. good meeting today, thank you all for coming along
[11:59] Vernes Veranes: Imagine, bumping into ban-lines all the time, 35 chances to be banned by SOMEONE. And with more groups, this increases.
[11:59] Sonya Haight: darn turned my shoes off, but if I had known it was bugging Haillie I would have left them on
[11:59] Talarus Luan: Ciao Jack.
[11:59] Ardy Lay: No, clicking heels should stop clicking when the wearer stops walking.
[11:59] Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack
[11:59] Jude Towton: cocks a brow, “Ah, and how feel you Jack of the enforcment of sex and violent themed places, going well?”
[11:59] Toy LaFollette: tc Jack
[11:59] Cytherea Eagle: I was told oncethat if i file more than once per AR, they would be igored
[11:59] Talarus Luan: Stake the microparcel barons!
[11:59] Arawn Spitteler: Someone could suggest a limit sound to group members option
[11:59] Master Kane: thanks jack!
[11:59] Alexxa Despres: Thanks Jack
[11:59] Charlene Trudeau: tc jack
[11:59] Trouble Streeter: bye jack!