[11:02] Jack Linden: hello everyone.. just letting things rez
[11:02] Alexxa Despres: Hi Jack
[11:02] CPU Core: Jack be not so nimble
[11:02] Bronson Blackadder: WHAT!!! we’re being HiJacked?
[11:02] Sonya Haight: hijacked?
[11:02] Bronson Blackadder: oh wait
[11:02] Bronson Blackadder: Hi Jack
[11:02] OnK Oh: hi Jack
[11:03] Zep Palen: Hello Jack…..
[11:03] Uni Ninetails: Oh hey Jack
[11:03] Jack Linden: okays, i think i can see most of you now. how is everyone?
[11:03] Zep Palen: FIrst issue…..The marketplace seem to be off beta even before it is ready. There are still some VERY needed things to be done before you can make it the primary marketplace. Most of my items I am forced to keep inactive because there are NO attention from LL to http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-2308. I find that you dont take our issues serious enough
[11:04] Yoshi Zhangsun: Zep beat me to it
[11:04] Zep Palen: ㋡
[11:04] Zep Palen: faster copy/paste function ㋡
[11:05] Jack Linden: Okay Zep.. I know there are still some pieces that are being done through September – XStreet remains in place while that plays out.
[11:05] Jack Linden: Not sure on that particular issue but I’llmake sure the team looks again at i
[11:05] Jack Linden: *it
[11:06] Zep Palen: Xstreet if for my own case not there since you removed my listing enhancements…so dont see it that way
[11:06] Yoshi Zhangsun: xstreet is shut from listing new items from the 5th..but there’s still missing things like templating system in the new site. it sseems both customers and merchants are being pushed onto unfinished work
[11:06] Zep Palen: And until http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-2308 is fixed I cant use the marketplace
[11:07] Prokofy Neva: Jack, please comment on this new policy to end instant cash outs along with the closure of Xstreet. Why must we wait 5-7 days for PayPal transfers from Linden Lab? Are you investing the float? If a resident has verified merchant status on PayPal, what’s the hold-up?
[11:07] Jack Linden: Yoshi – it’s tricky because running two sites is obviously not helpful in many ways so we’re pretty motivated to try to move onto Marketplace.. but I take your point about it needing to be ready.
[11:07] Jack Linden: I’ll pass on the concerns to the team
[11:07] Yoshi Zhangsun: thank you
[11:07] Techwolf Lupindo: Is “investing the float” illegil?
[11:07] Moon Corrigible: No its not Tech
[11:07] Medhue Simoni: at our expense
[11:08] Medhue Simoni: all the team needs to do is read the blog
[11:08] Yoshi Zhangsun: yeah second, i usually cash out via xstreet, i had to check my lindex rates to see i could cash out there without limits, it took 4 days for the support team to even look at my case….this will be bad for the many users who will be moving onto the lindex soon
[11:09] Jack Linden: Hey Prokofy – yeah, the xstreet cashouts are moving becuase of course xstreet is going away. To begin with we’ll be handling them the same way that we do all other cashouts but the intent is to not have them take too long. We’re not ‘investing the float’ at all.
[11:09] Jack Linden: They will be slower though.. i’m afraid
[11:09] Sonya Haight: Jack here are the dates given to us http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/commerce/blog/2010/08/31/second-life-marketplace-is-coming-soon–transition-plans
[11:09] Yoshi Zhangsun: will you be considering a fast pay any time soon?
[11:09] Sonya Haight: that says we can no longer post new items on Xstreet after Sept. 9th
[11:09] Moon Corrigible: (See I didnt even know it was possible to cash out through XStreet – I learn so much here)
[11:10] Jack Linden: Yoshi, we’re putting extra bodies on the cashouts to try to ensure they go through without long delays
[11:10] Sonya Haight: doesn’t sound like xstreet will be running along side the new marketplace until its ready
[11:10] Yoshi Zhangsun: that’s good news
[11:10] CPU Core: more drama
[11:10] Jack Linden: I think the xstreet cashouts are about 30% of the load of our normal cashouts – we think we’ll be able to handle it well and not keep people waiting too long
[11:10] Medhue Simoni: Why were we deceived into thinking that the Exchange would still go on after Xstreet closed.
[11:11] Equinox Pinion: why do you still do the cashouts by hand?
[11:11] Equinox Pinion: no normal company with so many cashouts does that
[11:11] Zep Palen: From the blog it sounds like Xstreet is useless from your ads are expired…and for some thats already happend
[11:11] Jack Linden: Medhue.. not sure – was there messaging from us that it would remain indefinitely even when XStreet itself was shut off?
[11:11] Sonya Haight: in the FAQ Jack
[11:12] Yoshi Zhangsun: yes jac we were told there would be NO changes to cash out
[11:12] Sonya Haight: something like would we still be able to cash out through currency exchange, the answer was Yes
[11:12] Medhue Simoni: We ask many times jack, and the responses went either way from LL
[11:12] Jack Linden: Equinox, it’s true there are systems that can do some of the checks and we actually have systems of our own that help – but money flows in Second Life are complex and we need to ensure that cashouts are fully vetted
[11:13] Jack Linden: Yoshi, ah I see. I’d have to look at that. The ability to cashout isn’t changing but the process we use on our side is – so that could do with better language
[11:13] Yoshi Zhangsun: yes communication could definitely be better
[11:13] CPU Core: why not just tag people who obviously have reputable businesses and pay them quickly.. people only really need vetting once
[11:13] Medhue Simoni: and will the Lindex Limits be changed?\
[11:14] Equinox Pinion: i agree CPU
[11:14] Medhue Simoni: yep CPU
[11:14] Moon Corrigible: Errr I really dont agree with that Equinox
[11:14] Zep Palen: Jack…I am using the Listing enhancements on Xstreet…Today i got an email about 2 of those were expired and the blog says we cant renew them…without my listing enhancements xstreet is worth nothing to me and also to others..so right now I have NO Xstreet sales..and no sales on the marketplace because of my first issue.
[11:14] Jack Linden: CPU – I don’t deal directly with the risk and fraud side, but I don’t think it as simple as that.
[11:14] Moon Corrigible: I mean the fact that you havent done something nefarious in the past doenst mean you are incapble of it
[11:15] CPU Core: no of course not.. but it means you are less likely than someone who create an account jsut to con people
[11:15] Chaos Ametza: hello jack do we have update for atlas program?
[11:15] Medhue Simoni: Do they have an office hour?
[11:15] Moon Corrigible: Oh absolutely – but it also ussuuuaally means you have more money to do it with
[11:16] Yoshi Zhangsun: ok jack, change of subject – teens on SL. from what i hear they will be confined to PG sims only. what measures will be in place to keep them out of moderate sims? Also, how much new land will be added to the grid, to support the teens, will this be PG only?
[11:16] Jack Linden: Zep, I hear you. I can’t obviously deal with individual issues at this meeting but I’ll copy paste your comments to the team so that they are aware. It’s very difficult to move between two platforms in the way that we are – lots of moving pieces. We’re working hard to not drop any balls.
[11:16] Prokofy Neva: Can you give us the latest total of Linden Homes and when you think you will put something in place to have residents who want larger lots and more choices to graduate from LH and move to resident rentals and how that will be advertised.
[11:16] Zep Palen: Thanks
[11:17] Jack Linden: Chaos – yeah I have a bunch of things to say around the top estates… I can do that now..
[11:17] Prokofy Neva: Also feel free to talk about Display Names for 45 minutes if you need to. I’m not going to test it because I figure there will already be 50 Prokofy’s on the beta test viewer so I won’t be needed : )
[11:17] Chaos Ametza: ty jack
[11:17] CPU Core: i allready been a prokofy
[11:18] Zep Palen: i would never do that
[11:18] Jack Linden: First of all, as you know we have a program for the top estates that gives them various additions the the services we provide all estate owners. We’re going to push that info out publicly shortly – because we want it to be clear what is being offered and hopefulyl for it to be aspirational also.
[11:18] Prokofy Neva: “Aspirational”. I love that concept.
[11:18] Chaos Ametza: nice
[11:19] Yoshi Zhangsun: will be good to see some transparency
[11:19] Sonya Haight: when is shortly?
[11:19] CPU Core: if everyone aspires to it then there is noone renting
[11:19] Moon Corrigible: Can you give us an idea of what ‘top estates’ would include – meaning how many sims – that sort of thing? How big do you have to be?
[11:19] Jack Linden: One of the aspects is account management, but the piece people have been talking most about is bulk pricing breaks – so i can talk to that a little too..
[11:19] Prokofy Neva: account management? meaning?
[11:20] Yoshi Zhangsun: account management would be decent, i wasnt so happy to find out i had t pay for my sims on different days and support couldnt make that 1 payment day
[11:20] Jack Linden: — a dedicated account manager to interact with Prokofy..
[11:20] Moon Corrigible: ROFL
[11:20] Zep Palen: to interact with Prokofy?
[11:20] Chaos Ametza: remote restart
[11:21] Prokofy Neva: does that give my land more traffic?
[11:21] Chaos Ametza: lol
[11:21] Prokofy Neva: wait, that sounds like that thing Emerald did
[11:22] Prokofy Neva: oh you just mean the Atlas Shrugged people get to have their own personal Linden, well they have that anyway.
[11:22] Jack Linden: So.. we’ve come to the conclusion that a rate card model doesn’t make sense for us right now, in the strict sense of a list of ‘buy X and you get Y discount’ – but we also recognise that it does sometimes make sense for us to give bulk pricing for residents who want to make large purchases of land (any residents, not just the big estates)..
[11:22] Daten Thielt: So, you have the resources for dedicated account managers, but not the resources to do everything else. Also, why has it taken so long for this to become public knowledge and why doesn’t the KB reflect this program?
[11:22] Chaos Ametza: sounds fair
[11:23] Jack Linden: So if a resident comes to us with solid plans, a business case for how they propose to expand, monetize those regions, market themselves and so on – we will work with them to develop that plan and where it makes sense we are going tobe open to pricing discounts for large orders.
[11:23] CPU Core: bulk pricing juat makes it harder for those Aspirational people to grow to that size.. They arent competitive
[11:23] Perdita Muggins: what does “bulk pricing” mean, in this context, Jack ? what size and type of land do you mean, and what sort of reduction does the new pricing range entail ?
[11:24] Jack Linden: One of our concerns was that we didn’t want to have estate owners moving into situatins where they had taken high risk and then fail – we’d rather partner with them and try to ensure that we work together
[11:24] Moon Corrigible: er…. are you saying you want us to haggle?
[11:24] Jack Linden: Daten, not a single person per account – that wouldn’t be viable.
[11:25] CPU Core: Techwolfs house just exploded?
[11:25] Moon Corrigible: Ohhh ohh I misunderstood – sorry
[11:25] Jack Linden: Moon.. no – not haggle.. but we want to work more closely with you and understand your plans and proposal before we make any commitments around possible pricing breaks for large orders
[11:25] Joshe Darkstone: Jack are pricing discounts going to continue to include lower tiers? ive never heard you address the issue that lower tiers undercuts every landowner in sl. discounting setup fees is completely different
[11:25] Daten Thielt: Pricing discounts on purchase, but you have already given discounts on tier.
[11:25] Jack Linden: Daten, I’m not stating setup fees only.
[11:26] Yoshi Zhangsun: will the deals be made public ? perhaps in a wiki somewhere? for reference?
[11:27] Jack Linden: Yoshi – I doubt it; that would be very unusual, for a company to disclose every business relatinship it has to every customer
[11:27] Daten Thielt: There are a few issues here….being secretive (KB not reflecting any such program) and reduced tier.
[11:27] Prokofy Neva: well it’s unusual to create also sorts of widely different pricing schemes depending on discretionary judgement by staff possibly at a whim
[11:27] Medhue Simoni: What about discounts for paying for land that does not show in Search.
[11:27] Joshe Darkstone: so you dont even acknowledge that there is an unfair business practice involved – you are willing to let every normal landowner go under because they cant compete with discounted tiers. i find that amazingly brazen.
[11:27] Yoshi Zhangsun: it does seem if you offer a large estate lower land tier, you put EVERYONE else at a disadvantage, but lower set up fees and other quirks i can agree with
[11:28] Moon Corrigible: Yeaahhhh seee… this just looks like courting trouble. SOMEONE is going to find out that person X is paying less for the same amount of land then person Y and there is going to be an uprora
[11:28] Jack Linden: Daten – we’re definitely sensitive to the ‘secrecy’ concern but we do have to recognise that some customers, by virtue of their size or ambition, will have a different relationship with us
[11:28] Prokofy Neva: How can it be aspirational if its secret?!
[11:29] Joshe Darkstone: jack yu say tht same thing every time, yet you never address the issue from the standpoint of discounted tiers and the harm that does
[11:29] Ciaran Laval: Indeed Prok
[11:29] Moon Corrigible: Yeah but if you give EVERYONE at a certain size the same discount – then that’s another story
[11:29] Prokofy Neva: perhaps you could at least publish the aggregate number of FIC deals as you publish the total Positive Monthly Linden Flow
[11:29] CPU Core: you dont see this completely destroys ambition and aspiration to grow into a big land baron.. it only benefits those who are allready there
[11:29] Perdita Muggins: what breeds mistrust and uproar is the sense of arbitary that surrounds these “special relations”…. if we have no idea of what the critical size or purpose of these land masses are to be, then there is cause for doubt over the aspirational qualities of the program
[11:29] Jack Linden: Joshe – this isn’t unfair business practice. It’s no different than any other business. Dealing with someone investing hundreds of thousands of dollars per year is different than someone who is a few thousand per year. Obviously we highly value all of our customers and the large majority of estates are small and we love that too.
[11:29] CPU Core: you have just created a huge barrier to getting there
[11:30] Prokofy Neva: I suppose the aspirational bit is an immersive inworld experience where I fly over to Ansheland to follow all my tenants departing for cheaper pastures.
[11:30] Jack Linden: Prokofy, something like that might be feasible yes.. aggregated information
[11:30] Medhue Simoni: I thought Philip said that more focus would be on merchants, not land barons.
[11:30] CPU Core: Customers dont care how aspirational a person renting out land is.. all they care is about price and thats where they lose
[11:31] Jack Linden: CPU – one of the issues for us is how we help the smaller estates with ambition to grow.. hence me saying that this isn’t just about the big estates. We’ll listen to business proposals from any estate owner.
[11:31] Prokofy Neva: I have an idea, Jack. Let’s make November a month when you stop doing unexpected, bad, shocking and debilitating things like Xstreet cashouts closing, Display Names, etc. etc. and just have a moratorium before Thanksgiving so we can count on a clear 30 days of no harsh surprises.
[11:31] Yoshi Zhangsun: Well thanks for clarifiying the program somewhat, looking forward to seeing your blog sbout it, shortly…the lack of transparency certainly does put off the smaller estate owners from further investment in your services
[11:31] Joshe Darkstone: jack that is in fact an unfair business practice, its unfair to create conglomerates that control the land pricing making it impossible for your 1000s of other customers to proit while trying to compete with soemone who may be able to charge less then other landowners have to pay to you.
[11:32] Jack Linden: Prokofy -Display Names is a tough one because it pre-dates the move we have made towards being more open. I do expect that we’ll be much less surprising going forward.
[11:32] Joshe Darkstone: this is a case of you crippling your customers, and it will bite you back.
[11:32] Prokofy Neva: Is your ultimate plan to wind down the existence of smaller rental companies, to force consolidation or takeovers so the grid is easier for you to manage, Jack?
[11:33] Daten Thielt: Reduced purchase price is fine, but not reduced tier, especially when no one knows a program exists and it is not listed in the LL Official page in the KB
[11:33] Qie Niangao: Jack, maybe a little openness about Mesh would be a start, before it just plops out on the test grid: “surprise!”
[11:33] Prokofy Neva: You’re removing the real estate ads from SL Merchant as well, and the workaround for that sounds dicey, making something like “an object for sale”.
[11:33] Jack Linden: Prokofy, no not at all. That wouldn’t make long term sense. The future large estates may very likely come from the younger estates who hit upon a business model that allows them rapid growth. Liek any real country you absolutely need the grass roots businesses th thrive
[11:34] Dennis Lagan: Jack, when will this ” temporary real estate solution” for xstreet be in place? before or after september 5?
[11:34] Jack Linden: *to thrive
[11:34] Yoshi Zhangsun: so don’t step on the grass roots? lol
[11:34] Prokofy Neva: The business model still sounds like Russia. “Get in good with the Lindens”.
[11:34] Jack Linden: Daten, as I said.. the plan is to put the information out there
[11:34] Joshe Darkstone: except that in an environment where they cant compete such ideas and creativity are stifled
[11:34] Sonya Haight: Jack who is Kim Linden?
[11:34] Prokofy Neva: She’s Not Robin Linden.
[11:34] Sonya Haight: or what is her job rather?
[11:34] CPU Core: Get in good with Lindens and you can find your land favourably placed in search too
[11:35] Jack Linden: Qie, yes agreed.. we won’t be surprising anyone there either. I’ll be blogging soon about the Mesh project, about the roadmap, the open issues and the pieces we’re especially seeking feedback on. We’ll also be opening up a ‘Project Viewer’ on a dev grid so that everyone can take a look themselves whilst the code is still young and unfinished
[11:35] Daten Thielt: Too bad it wasn’t out there all along though…maybe some of the smaller estates could have grown. Just putting it out there now because you guys have been called on it. It’s a shame really.
[11:36] Yoshi Zhangsun: ok so teens – what land will they be restricted to, PG? Moderate? How much land will be coming to the grid along with them? Will any of that land be for sale?
[11:36] Qie Niangao: thanks Jack, that sounds good.
[11:36] Jack Linden: Kim Linden is our new VP of Marketing.
[11:36] CPU Core: so you fire devs and employ marketting?
[11:36] Sonya Haight: so you will be advertising SL more?
[11:37] Jack Linden: The Mesh post will hopefulyl come quite soon. We’r pretty excited about the project and we think that when people are able to come in and play with it we’ll get a much better sense for some of the UI questions we have
[11:37] Prokofy Neva: Well, what’s to dev, CPU? They have a thing they already made, they should just get it working and advertise it.
[11:37] Jack Linden: Ack, apologies dfor the typing.. this mac keyboard is a little painful to use.
[11:37] Melody Regent: Teens? How will you keep them off Mature sims. I know you have to age verify for adult, but so far I see no way to weed them off the Mature areas. What is the process for that? Unless they will be allowed in G & Mature areas.
[11:37] Dennis Lagan: Jack, when will this ” temporary real estate solution” for xstreet be in place? before, on or after september 5?
[11:37] CPU Core: well yeah there is so much to fix
[11:37] Equinox Pinion: Jack you do still intend to go ahead with the display names even 99% of the reidents dont like it?
[11:38] CPU Core: but their priority seems less on fixing their product than selling it
[11:38] Jack Linden: Dennis, the plan is to have it in place ahead of XStreet being taken down
[11:38] Perdita Muggins: also a concern about the teens coming into sl is the current alternation of mainland PG/mature sims… how are you goign to work around that ?
[11:38] Perdita Muggins: or just not allow them on mainland ?
[11:38] Dennis Lagan: ahead of posting beeing disabled is somethin,g else as ahead of xstreet beeing taken down
[11:38] Ciaran Laval: They need to sell their product
[11:38] Medhue Simoni: yes, teens, what about all their stolen content?
[11:39] CPU Core: see my belief is if SL was truly fixed it would sell itself
[11:39] Jack Linden: Equinox, we’ve issued a Project Viewer which is like a First Look viewer so that people can give us feedback. We’ve done that so that we can then react to that feedback (again, it wouldn’t make sense to run a trial otherwise).
[11:39] Moon Corrigible: Now where did ya’ll get the idea that teens would be limited to PG?
[11:39] Foxy Petunia: What about all the stolen content that is here already?
[11:39] Jack Linden: I’ll be blogging and summarising what we have heard from you all about Display Names too.. and what ideas we have around the question of impersonation for example
[11:40] Ciaran Laval: Terence said they’ll be restricted to general sims
[11:40] Equinox Pinion: I tried it..and it didnt change my mind….all the feedbacks are negative….will you change the set up from the feedback?
[11:40] Melody Regent: When will you be doing all this blogging and when is Xstreet officially coming down?
[11:40] Moon Corrigible: Ahh good to know Ciaran! thanks!
[11:40] Daten Thielt: Will Emerald be blocked on the 3rd?
[11:40] Joshe Darkstone: display names is a pita, you will be dealing with so many ars when poepl pretend to be the l;andowner and go around collecting fees. or making people say things they didnt say, or spamming ads so you cant tell who the real person is. it seems like this was not even considered at all so far. any plans to adress these issues?
[11:40] Ciaran Laval: it’s an exercise in futility mind you
[11:40] Melody Regent: HOW will they be restricteed?
[11:41] Prokofy Neva: Jack, could you consider a different system on the mainland than letting all the abandoned land sit there? I’m not suggesting rushing it to auction and enabling flippers to profit from the misery. But if you returned to the old system whereby abandoned land could be purchased by anyone for $1/meter, even with bots, it might be something that would enable this land to get back into usage again. Or can you consider tickets from those already owning land on a sim to buy any abandoned land on that sim?
[11:41] Jack Linden: Equinox, we may well make changes yes. We’re watching the comments and letting the feedback be a part of our internal discussions.
[11:41] Molly Montale: about a quarter of those here for the OH are using Emerald. I don’t want to see it go away.
[11:41] Uni Ninetails: Yeah Jack is Emerald getting blockied? cause i got a lotta work i need to plan utilising its featuresets.
[11:41] Equinox Pinion: thanks
[11:41] Bronson Blackadder: and for gods sack.. why is a bird in the hand worth only 2 in the bush??????????
[11:41] Bronson Blackadder: sake
[11:41] Bronson Blackadder: not sack
[11:41] Prokofy Neva: Any comments Jack on Soft Linden telling Phox that he “loves what you guys do” and encouraging him to encrypt user info from the windows path?
[11:42] Jack Linden: Prokofy, we had talked about auto-selling abandoned parcels.. it has pros and cons.
[11:42] Perdita Muggins: the mainland is a concern… will teens have to TP from one PG sim to the next and not be able to use the roads/waterway systems ? ?
[11:42] Moon Corrigible: Prokofy they arlready do that – the letting landowners put in tickets – actually anyone put in tickets – they are pretty cool abou tit
[11:42] Melody Regent: @Jack – When will you be putting up the blogs by?
[11:42] Prokofy Neva: Moon, they do for very small parcels but on larger ones they stall
[11:42] Jack Linden: Technologically it’s possible, but many Abandonments are accidental so that would leave peope almost immediately losing their land if they make that mistake (such as when a group lacks tier).
[11:43] Jack Linden: The current way at least lets us undo those situations
[11:43] Illyria Illyar: I would like to know about the security leak in SL Voice?
[11:43] Yoshi Zhangsun: Jack why does LL allow someone who openly abused so many user’s connections via the Emerald viewer, to still use the grid?
[11:43] Jack Linden: Perdita, I think those questions are still being answered. Agree it would be a little odd
[11:43] Moon Corrigible: To be fair I’ve only dealt with small ones Prokofy.
[11:43] Bronson Blackadder: SL voice is a Vivox problem
[11:43] Daten Thielt: Please, before you go Jack, will Emerald be blocked on the 3rd or will we at least be given some notice before it is blocked? This is very important to many residents.
[11:44] Illyria Illyar: yes Emerald is currently used buy 1/2 of the residents
[11:44] Uni Ninetails: gonna be interesting if they do. seen figures arond ~50% logins are Emerald… ~
[11:44] Bronson Blackadder: there is other viewers out there tat have almost the same abilities as emerald
[11:44] Bronson Blackadder: give them a try
[11:44] Daten Thielt: Many people have Bronson but clearly that is not the case
[11:45] Illyria Illyar: Bronson – but not all the same features
[11:45] Jack Linden: Daten, I can’t comment on that right now – sorry.
[11:45] Moon Corrigible: True but change is hard Bronson and people havent made that change in mass yet
[11:45] Prokofy Neva: Jack, it makes no sense to hold the entire mainland land issue hostage to the few who make a mistake and click “abandoned”. You could code in a time delay. Or just take tickets on mistakes. That would be less bad than allowing the shocking amount of abandoned land to grow. You have a dog in the manger problem.
[11:45] Bronson Blackadder: good riddance emerald
[11:45] Uni Ninetails: Well yeah im hopping over to impru but outta that 50% how many will relise this or be so hacked off they walk
[11:45] Moon Corrigible: (yhappening though!
[11:45] Bronson Blackadder: good viewer… bad devs
[11:45] Qie Niangao: Hopefully Imprudence’s server can handle the downloads by the time the block takes effect.
[11:45] Dytska Vieria: Emergence Viewer
[11:45] Jack Linden: Prokofy, I don’t disagree. And it’s doing no-one any good having land sitting unused.
[11:46] Melody Regent: @Jack – How will we be preventing the kids from going to Mature sims
[11:46] Bronson Blackadder: and crack addicts swear that crack is the coolest thing evah
[11:46] Equinox Pinion: instead of blocking it….you shold buy the rights for the emerald viewer and replace viewer 2 with it
[11:46] Bronson Blackadder: buy the rights?
[11:46] Bronson Blackadder: 95 to 98% of the code is linden code
[11:46] Jack Linden: hehe ouch Equinox!
[11:46] Sonya Haight: Jack is there any possible way they can keep xstreet working until all the features are working and bugs are out of marketplace?
[11:46] Equinox Pinion:
[11:46] Bronson Blackadder: buy thier own code back?
[11:47] Zep Palen: ℒℴℒ
[11:47] Sonya Haight: I don’t think they will have that finished in 7 days, and in 7 days we can no longer post items to xstreet according to the blogs
[11:47] Jack Linden: Melody – it’ll be blocked at the simulator I believe (they simply won’t be able to enter those regions)
[11:47] Bronson Blackadder: maybe pay them 100USD for the bouncing boobs then
[11:47] Yoshi Zhangsun: jack also regarding the teens – how much new land will be added to the grid when the teens come and what % will be for sale to the non-teen users
[11:47] Melody Regent: How will you know they are a teen?
[11:47] Perdita Muggins: hwo will WE know they are teen, also
[11:48] Alexxa Despres: They will have to wear a SCARLET ‘T”
[11:48] Moon Corrigible: lol @ Alexxa
[11:48] Jack Linden: Sonya, our timeline for xstreet is pretty set now but we’ll be reviewing right the way through september. We won’t switch it off unless we’re confident it’s the right time
[11:48] Zep Palen: or a diaper
[11:48] Ciaran Laval: T for Tribe?
[11:48] Melody Regent: @Jack – When will you be putting up the blogs by?
[11:48] Bronson Blackadder: Alexxa thats not a bad idea
[11:48] Daten Thielt: Okay, if you can’t comment, I will have to go with what support said and just not believe any of what is out there until LL comes out with something official on the site regarding Emerald. So, I am safe in using it….cool…thanks.
[11:48] Alexxa Despres: TEEN, Ciaran
[11:48] Kiptic Horsley: Perdita, go to M land and ask them to TP there…
[11:48] Bronson Blackadder: red letters in their name tag
[11:49] Yoshi Zhangsun: Jack you switch off new item additions on xstreet from the 5th…That means from the 5th until whenever you implement the land option in xstreet, land owners will not be able to benefit at all
[11:49] Perdita Muggins: lol, Kiptic
[11:49] Jack Linden: Yoshi, good question and honestly we don’t know yet. Clearly they will need some additional land but i’d rather they lower the amount available than for us to add more
[11:49] Sonya Haight: 9th Yoshi
[11:49] Qie Niangao: (That’s assuming any Teens actually come over. They’ll just use their bogus adult accounts anyway.)
[11:49] Joshe Darkstone: what kind of problems do you think you will encounter when the parents start suing you because their 16 yo is hopping on poseballs with a 40 yo? how do you intend to deal with policing of that?
[11:49] Jack Linden: Melody, I don’t have fixed dates for blog posts – soon as we can.
[11:49] Nema Galicia: age verfying a teenagers is about as easy as putting a tutu on a hummingbird
[11:49] Sonya Haight: oops Yoshi is right, its the 5th
[11:50] Melody Regent: How Will We Know A Teen Is A Teen – How are you stoping them?
[11:50] Sonya Haight: we have 3 days to post items then never post again
[11:50] Yoshi Zhangsun: hehe american way of writing the date lol
[11:50] Bronson Blackadder: well I would like to say…. why the hell are the parents not more closely monitoring thier childs activities?
[11:50] Driftwood Miles: I think it would be the 40 year old that would be needing to be sued , no?
[11:50] Jack Linden: Joshe, I’m sure the folks handling that will talk more publicly as things get clearer
[11:50] Sonya Haight: yeah but i am american Yoshi
[11:50] Yoshi Zhangsun: lol
[11:50] Bronson Blackadder: and if you are stupid enough to jump on poseballs with anyone and everyone you are an idiot
[11:50] Moon Corrigible: Actually I *think* that 16 is over the age of consent everywhere so all the 40 year olds are safe
[11:51] Ciaran Laval: Age of consent is pretty irrelevant
[11:51] Driftwood Miles: not everywhere Moon
[11:51] Moon Corrigible: I sit corrected Drift!
[11:51] Foxy Petunia: The legal age is 18 in the states
[11:51] Melody Regent: Hey baby, come sit in my lap
[11:51] Moon Corrigible: Nooooooo no its not Foxy – it goes by state – some are 14 for that matter
[11:51] Bronson Blackadder: 16 with parental permission in most US states
[11:51] Kiptic Horsley: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Age_of_Consent.png
[11:52] Sonya Haight: what parent would give permission?
[11:52] Moon Corrigible: oOh that’s mariage Bronson – marriage and consent are two different entities
[11:52] Bronson Blackadder: those in kentucky
[11:52] Joshe Darkstone: the 40 yo might not know the age, so far everyone here is supposed to be an adult. the point is that services like facebook, craigs list, and soon, sl, have all sorts of legal nightmares keeping adults and teens apart
[11:52] Kiptic Horsley: Sonya, what 16 y/o would ask for it?
[11:52] Sonya Haight: true
[11:52] AnnMarie Otoole: Did I miss something, isn’t it just pixelsex?
[11:52] Medhue Simoni: Jack what will you do about the stolen content in the teens inventory
[11:52] Driftwood Miles: The same applies in rl Joshe, but who do you sue? the bed manufacturer?
[11:52] Sonya Haight: no Ann, its x-rated over 18 type stuff
[11:53] Perdita Muggins: also, the areas of concern about teens on teh main grid really dosn’t just encompass the sexual nature of lots of activites in SL
[11:53] Sonya Haight: because you see pixel bits
[11:53] Bronson Blackadder: well there will be the small numbers that will try pressing to meet the person in person
[11:53] Foxy Petunia: Medhue the grid here has stolen content, what is the difference?
[11:53] Joshe Darkstone: well you dont sue, the states attorney generalcomes knocking – as is the case for craigs list, etc
[11:53] Kiptic Horsley: if a 16 y/o shows RL video of their “bits” over Skype to some adult, do their parents sue Skype? And SL is just pixels, as someone pointed out
[11:54] Prokofy Neva: The states attorneys general should come knocking about unfair business practices like Atlas.
[11:54] Perdita Muggins: DO you know when there will eb more information available about this lowering of age to access the main grid ? its a major source of concer to lots of people
[11:54] Medhue Simoni: Teens have no repect, go look at any game area in the store, there is a reason they are locked
[11:54] Driftwood Miles: Exactly Kip
[11:54] Bronson Blackadder: but like I said… if you are dumb enough to just randomly jump on poseballs with everyone ,,,,,,,
[11:54] Joshe Darkstone: kiptic thats not the point, the service has to have a policy to protect minors, and if that policy doesnt work then the service will take the heat for it. read the papers
[11:54] Jack Linden: Perdita, i don’t know when more info will go out but we totally recognise that some residents are concerned
[11:55] Driftwood Miles: they would have to knock on the door of every supply company in the US one would suspect Prok
[11:55] Bronson Blackadder: this just forces people to stop and think first
[11:55] Ciaran Laval: So Jack, Megasims and 16m parcels, any updates?
[11:55] Perdita Muggins: I think you can say “many” Jack, in this case
[11:55] Zep Palen: Jack..some residents are left in limbo..not just being concerned
[11:56] Moon Corrigible: Does anyone know if there are any figures on how much land 16 to 18 year olds own on the teen grid? Really if they dont create new land – jsut give them existing parcels – this could really pump the price of land here on the grid
[11:56] Prokofy Neva: there aer only a whopping 245 islands on the Teen Grid
[11:56] Sonya Haight: will it be notice like the currency exchange closing? sort of just “Its gone!”
[11:56] Prokofy Neva: so do the math there
[11:56] Chaos Ametza: do you think age verification should applies to all mature
[11:56] Jack Linden: Ciaran, no update I’m afraid. The small parcels issue is more a support one these days. We’ve no plans to introduce a new land product.
[11:56] Sonya Haight: one day we get to see a blog say “Oh yeah! Teens are on the grid”
[11:56] Yoshi Zhangsun: when the teen grid joins us, presumably teenage access to SL for all countries will be available yes?
[11:56] Ciaran Laval: Support? Uh oh!
[11:57] Nema Galicia: he said the word
[11:57] Melody Regent: That is a good Q Jack – Will you be making a new Region of just G sims or will you just recycle what is out there?
[11:57] Nema Galicia: ducks
[11:57] Prokofy Neva: Jack, I’ll come back to you on the Linden Homes. Why is there so much land abandonment, doy ou think? And are they going to Linden Homes? or Open Sim? or where?
[11:57] Driftwood Miles: there are only 5 land products after all
[11:57] Jack Linden: Moon, land ownership is far lower on the teen grid. A lot of the land there is either educational estates or Linden owned like sandboxes
[11:57] Sonya Haight: Support! thats a good one Ciaran
[11:57] Yoshi Zhangsun: aah yeah the support ‘improvements’ blogged this week really made me cringe
[11:57] Prokofy Neva: I wuold be happy to provide a free vending area for Teens but I have no idea how I’d identify them as such
[11:58] Kiptic Horsley: Prokofy: put it on G land, problem solved
[11:58] Prokofy Neva: it’s already on G land
[11:58] Moon Corrigible: Oh! Has there been any thought to turning some of the abandoned PG land into linden snadboxes? Taht would be uber cool
[11:58] Melody Regent: Will you be making a new Region of just G sims or will you just recycle what is out there?
[11:58] Prokofy Neva: the question is how to identify someone as a teen that you could supply that offer of free land to them
[11:58] Jack Linden: Prokofy, it’s a mix. Sometimes it is groups that lack tier, sometimes residents move onto estates (whenthey can’t get more land in their region for example), etc..
[11:58] Bronson Blackadder: I think teens should just have a (teen) in thier tag
[11:59] Bronson Blackadder: that cant be hidden
[11:59] Kiptic Horsley: ah, Prokofy, I see your point.
[11:59] Prokofy Neva: are the teens giong to be labelled as such?
[11:59] Jack Linden: Moon, it would be cool but the folks living around it might not agree. Sandboxes can cause problems
[11:59] Kiptic Horsley: we’d need some LSL stuff too then Bronson
[11:59] Qie Niangao: Oh good god. it would be crazy to create a G continent for the handful of teens who will come over.
[11:59] Prokofy Neva: what is the total of Linden Homes now Jack?
[11:59] Moon Corrigible: Ahh good point Jack
[11:59] Moon Corrigible: Oh gosh I so agre Qie – look waht happened with Zindra
[12:00] Yoshi Zhangsun: At what point will new residents be able to click an SLURL sign up and land in your sim? i hear orientation may be going away
[12:00] Kiptic Horsley: Jack, I would suggest turn rez on on the abandoned land, but put auto return at 10 minutes or something. I remember when I was new it was so hard to find places to rez boxes I bought
[12:00] Ciaran Laval: it wouldn’t just be for teens Qie
[12:00] Melody Regent: YOu have alot of blogging to do Jack, why are you still here talking to us? GO get the blogs done!
[12:00] Jack Linden: Have to run to my next meeting folks.. just getting the Linden Home count for Prokofy.. one sec
[12:00] Ciaran Laval: Cheers jack
[12:01] Qie Niangao: thanks Jack
[12:01] Jayson Dorn: thanks Jack
[12:01] Equinox Pinion: take care jack!
[12:01] Zep Palen: Bye Jack
[12:01] Yoshi Zhangsun: Thanks Jack, looking forward to the blogs!
[12:01] Illyria Illyar: thank you Jack
[12:01] Moon Corrigible: lol @ Robin
[12:01] Driftwood Miles: bye jack
[12:01] Bronson Blackadder: 200 teens
[12:01] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[12:01] Uni Ninetails: Tah Jack
[12:01] Alexxa Despres: Laters, Jack
[12:01] Perdita Muggins: bye Jack
[12:01] Motor Loon: so… being fashionably late… who’s got a full chatlog?
[12:01] Melody Regent: I am getting it babe
[12:01] Qie Niangao: Ciaran, if we’re talking of moving the *existing* G-rated sims to a M rating, then that’s a different thing. although we don’t exactly need more M mainland, either.
[12:01] Motor Loon: wunderbar
[12:02] Sonya Haight: you should have known the answer Motor
[12:02] Jack Linden: Prokofy.. 30,434 Premium account holders with a Linden Home.
[12:02] Melody Regent: Seriously, do you not know that I am the keeper of the logs?
[12:02] Prokofy Neva: ouch
[12:02] Uni Ninetails: offt
[12:02] Prokofy Neva: there times as big as it was a few months ago
[12:02] Perdita Muggins: more than last count… interesting
[12:02] Moon Corrigible: Just means they have a home Pro – not hat they dont also rent
[12:02] Jack Linden: okay folks, I have to run.. take care all!

[10:56 AM]  Lady Sakai: I turned everything down Mel … but if my comp pukes Im toast
[10:56 AM]  Lady Sakai: fs = Full Sim
[10:56 AM]  Master Kane: mel, did you see my question?
[10:56 AM]  Melody Regent wrinkles her nose at the visual
[10:57 AM]  Lady Sakai: hehe
[10:57 AM]  Melody Regent: no, sorry MK
[10:57 AM]  Lady Sakai: hey Equi
[10:57 AM]  Bronson Blackadder: lady… ctrl alt shift 2
[10:57 AM]  Equinox Pinion: hi lady !
[10:57 AM]  Master Kane: mel.. if i crash , could you please send me the OH, please
[10:57 AM]  Bronson Blackadder: ctrl alt shift 3
[10:57 AM]  Equinox Pinion: hi all .)
[10:57 AM]  Melody Regent: Yes, of course
[10:57 AM]  Alexxa Despres: Hi everyone
[10:57 AM]  Mallory Destiny: hello everyone
[10:57 AM]  Bronson Blackadder: ctrl alt shift 5
[10:57 AM]  Master Kane: hi alexxa
[10:58 AM]  Master Kane: thank you mel appreciate that
[10:58 AM]  Alexxa Despres: master
[10:58 AM]  Melody Regent: cnt alt sht 9
[10:58 AM]  Bronson Blackadder: ctrl alt shift 6
[10:58 AM]  Melody Regent: and cnt alt shft 4
[10:58 AM]  Melody Regent: prims and avis gone
[10:58 AM]  Melody Regent: bye lady
[10:58 AM]  Melody Regent: lol
[10:58 AM]  Trouble Streeter: awww, and I wore a pretty outfit, Mel
[10:59 AM]  Master Kane: yah that didnt help… i and everthing is gone LOL ctrl-alt-shift-9 is for prims and other is for avatars.. lets see how that works…. thanks
[10:59 AM]  Bronson Blackadder: you can try any and all
[10:59 AM]  Master Kane: seems i can type now woohoo
[10:59 AM]  Master Kane: that may be a BAD thing too
[10:59 AM]  Jolanda Robbiani is Offline
[11:00 AM]  Melody Regent: I use it in really laggy sims so I can type
[11:00 AM]  Qie Niangao: omg, it’s Jumpy!
[11:00 AM]  Master Kane: yeah it seems to help a great deal with typing
[11:00 AM]  Master Kane: hi qie
[11:00 AM]  Jumpman Lane: hey qie
[11:00 AM]  Melody Regent: You know, as the passer oner of the Jack Office Hours, I hate that I cant mute people
[11:00 AM]  Master Kane: lolol\
[11:00 AM]  Master Kane: i hear ya
[11:00 AM]  Paula Leeming is Offline
[11:01 AM]  Lady Sakai: well this is fun
[11:01 AM]  Master Kane: oh man here comes a bacth
[11:01 AM]  Master Kane: batch
[11:01 AM]  Master Kane: hi Pink
[11:01 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Hiya, MK!
[11:01 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Hellooooo all!!
[11:01 AM]  Lady Sakai: hey Pinky
[11:01 AM]  Master Kane: Hi Lumpy
[11:02 AM]  Jumpman Lane: say wheres the victim
[11:02 AM]  Jumpman Lane: i mean the linden lol
[11:02 AM]  Equinox Pinion: we all are as you are here
[11:02 AM]  Jumpman Lane: ur a linden lmao?
[11:02 AM]  Melody Regent: Should we offer him a tp?
[11:02 AM]  Master Kane: probably crash if hes on v2
[11:02 AM]  Trouble Streeter: grin, we could
[11:02 AM]  Qie Niangao: he was inworld maybe 15 mins ago… probably pouring himself a beverage. :p
[11:03 AM]  Melody Regent: all of us…at once
[11:03 AM]  Master Kane: lol ok
[11:03 AM]  Master Kane: let me search him
[11:03 AM]  Mallory Destiny: downloading the latest version perhaps, it just had a new up
[11:03 AM]  Master Kane: ok got em
[11:03 AM]  Alexxa Despres: sounds kinky, MK
[11:03 AM]  Master Kane: hey now pink..
[11:05 AM]  Master Kane: think i crashed.. nothign working
[11:06 AM]  Trouble Streeter: there he is
[11:06 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: Apologies if I’ve walked into anyone, I can’t quite see whats going on just yet.
[11:07 AM]  Master Kane: well soem may have liked it and want you to do it again .. who knows
[11:07 AM]  Trouble Streeter: hi jack
[11:07 AM]  Master Kane:
[11:07 AM]  Qie Niangao: greetings, Jack
[11:07 AM]  Jean Swashbuckler: hiya Jack
[11:07 AM]  Jumpman Lane: wb lush
[11:07 AM]  Jumpman Lane: sup jackie boy
[11:07 AM]  Jack Linden: Hey everyone.. sorry for being slightly late.. Viewer update.
[11:07 AM]  Equinox Pinion: Hi Jack
[11:07 AM]  Lusciouslumpchunks McMillan: thanks mang
[11:07 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: G’morning, Jack
[11:07 AM]  Jumpman Lane: np girlie girl
[11:07 AM]  Alexxa Despres: Hi Jack
[11:07 AM]  Trouble Streeter bites her tongue NOT saying what she’s thinking…
[11:07 AM]  Master Kane: howdy pardna’
[11:07 AM]  Adamburp Adamczyk: evening jacko
[11:08 AM]  Lady Sakai: hi Jack
[11:08 AM]  Jack Linden: hey Adamburpo
[11:08 AM]  Jumpman Lane: qie were more than passin acauiontances at this point :p
[11:08 AM]  Master Kane: Jack, did you get my notecard by chance?
[11:08 AM]  Jumpman Lane: thanx
[11:09 AM]  Jack Linden: Hey Master, I just saw it as I logged in.. not read it yet
[11:09 AM]  Master Kane: ok cool..
[11:09 AM]  Master Kane: ty
[11:09 AM]  Jack Linden: So.. my biggest stopic this week is the Display Names stuff. Do you guys have other topics you want to bash on?
[11:09 AM]  Aurrianna Mistwalker is Offline
[11:09 AM]  Master Kane: kill it
[11:09 AM]  Driftwood Miles: lol @ bash
[11:10 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Yes….What is the Atlas Program?
[11:10 AM]  Adamburp Adamczyk: EMERALD
[11:10 AM]  Bronson Blackadder: bash on
[11:10 AM]  Bronson Blackadder: lol
[11:10 AM]  Michi Lumin: well…. it’s what brought me here… I know I’ve been loud about it, Jack, hopefully not to the point of dismissal
[11:10 AM]  Equinox Pinion: bash…we never bash
[11:10 AM]  Driftwood Miles: The Hindenburg Omen
[11:10 AM]  Adamburp Adamczyk: what’re the conditions they have to abide by?
[11:10 AM]  Ciaran Laval: Atlas program is top secret, you’re not supposed to talk about it unless you know the secret handshake
[11:10 AM]  Dennis Lagan: i read Disney names instead of Display names lol
[11:10 AM]  Melody Regent: Welcome Jack, thank you for joining us. Assuming we will not be using a middle man to talk, I will jump right in. I know you are all set and ready to rock with the display names but have you really thought thru the implications. I mean REALLY thought thru. For years we cannot use the LINDEN name for fear of missuse. Why are you now setting us up for that same misuse you all avoided and setting yoruselves up for alot of extra work by allowing people to mimic extablished user names
[11:10 AM]  Jack Linden: Atlas and Emerald.. okay we can cover those too.
[11:11 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: We have been waiting for Delby to come to discuss the “special” deals on reduced tier and now I am hearing all about the Atlas Program.
[11:11 AM]  Jumpman Lane: i know the hand shake ciaran lol
[11:11 AM]  Master Kane: isn tit the one with the middle finger up? LOL
[11:11 AM]  Jumpman Lane: atals is a great name
[11:12 AM]  Jumpman Lane: maybe he’ll shrug
[11:12 AM]  Jack Linden: lets do DisplayNames first then.. after that we can do emerald and atlas..
[11:12 AM]  Jumpman Lane: im all for display names now
[11:12 AM]  Adamburp Adamczyk: can we also cover “2.0 is a dismal failure”
[11:12 AM]  Jumpman Lane: illhappily pay 100 usd for Jump Lane if u spell it with caps
[11:12 AM]  Jumpman Lane: ill SUE if u let someone lese have it
[11:12 AM]  Master Kane: Jack, see notecard for emearld my issue is in there
[11:13 AM]  Jumpman Lane: thats my stance on that
[11:13 AM]  Jack Linden: We’ve been reading the main blog thread, the email lists, external blogs etc and are seeing the concern over impersonation and worry over losing the single unique name
[11:13 AM]  Michi Lumin: hmm. Jack I emailed and posted quite a concern on the blog about display names and the possibility of mis-ARing in *specific circumstances*, I haven’t heard anything back on that…. The idea of a gray goo type situation with an impersonator’s displayname on them….
[11:13 AM]  Adamburp Adamczyk: and “get rid of those blasted useless ontynes and get back direct support frim the lindens”
[11:13 AM]  Jumpman Lane: yup prok mentions that in his blog
[11:13 AM]  Jack Linden: I’m going to wrap that blog thread up shortly with another post talking about what we’ve learnt, and next steps.
[11:13 AM]  Ciaran Laval: The ontynes are being got rid of
[11:13 AM]  Adamburp Adamczyk: they are??????
[11:13 AM]  Adamburp Adamczyk: HALLELUJAH
[11:13 AM]  Driftwood Miles: and extra work for those with customers
[11:13 AM]  Jumpman Lane: consider capitalizin the first letters of the names
[11:14 AM]  Jumpman Lane: everything is half way almost with u pesky lindens lol
[11:14 AM]  Mallory Destiny: brb
[11:14 AM]  Master Kane: hb
[11:14 AM]  Equinox Pinion: do you consider changes to the display name implementation after you read the blog posts?
[11:15 AM]  Melody Regent: Shortly as in Today or as in Q3?
[11:15 AM]  Ciaran Laval: November they go, although I don’t know if LL are taking support back in house, word is that support will still be outsourced so the grass may be no greener
[11:15 AM]  Adamburp Adamczyk: can’t get worse than them
[11:15 AM]  Jack Linden: I would just make one point about ‘listening’ which I think it important. It’s one of the most common comments, that we’re not listening. There’s a difference between listerning and changing – we are absolutely listening to all the feedback and discussing it daily within the team. So I hope people realise that just because we haven’t immediately changed track, it doesn’t mean we’re not listening.
[11:15 AM]  Jumpman Lane: i always tell em bump my problem up to a linden
[11:15 AM]  Adamburp Adamczyk: i stopped using live chat after i caught TWO of them outright lying to me
[11:15 AM]  Trouble Streeter: good point, Jack
[11:16 AM]  Jack Linden: We’re going to keep talking and getting feedback from the beta Viewer andif there are changes needed then we can talk about what we can do to make it less ouchy for existng residents whilst also not just stopping Display Names being useful as a feature.
[11:16 AM]  Jack Linden: We’ve pulled some good ideas from the blog thread so hopefully we can get to a good place
[11:16 AM]  Michi Lumin: Well, I think there are ways to certainly meet halfway…
[11:17 AM]  Melody Regent: When will you make this updated announcement?
[11:17 AM]  Jack Linden: Yeah Michi.. and we we feel that we need to lean more towards the resident views then we can talk about how we’d do that and what changes make sense.
[11:18 AM]  Master Kane: and this is something new? or just now stasrting to listen to residents?
[11:18 AM]  Jumpman Lane: sounds new lol
[11:18 AM]  Master Kane: no offense
[11:18 AM]  Jack Linden: One of the suggestions was to visually show when the username and display name do not match for example. So maybe there are some small and elegant things we can do to make this work well for you guys
[11:18 AM]  Melody Regent: I think he is saying Master is that they always listen, they just dont bother implimenting what we want
[11:18 AM]  Jumpman Lane: say jack who thought the display name thing up
[11:18 AM]  Jumpman Lane: i mean who WANTAS it
[11:18 AM]  Master Kane: true mel
[11:18 AM]  Michi Lumin: Yes, ah, I emailed something like that Jack, unsure if it was received, but then, I’m sure a lot of people have also given similar suggestions…
[11:18 AM]  Jumpman Lane: i can think of a handful of features i’d rather have
[11:18 AM]  Driftwood Miles: I think the bottom line Jack, is that people need to KNOW who they are really engaging with!
[11:19 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: Well, even if they show visually, it’s still a bit of a “thing” if someone goes around using the name that I’ve had for five years.
[11:19 AM]  Michi Lumin: Well, who wants it: it has flexibility advantages as far as expanding SL goes, I get that. But we’ve got two things: “a new idea” and “an existing culture on SL” and those have to probably be intermeshed.. a little more carefully IMO.
[11:19 AM]  Master Kane: LL talks about privacy and they take it seriously.. not by the looks of this… oen way to lose it , imho
[11:19 AM]  Melody Regent: Jack, we have implimented a policy that we will instanly ban anyone that uses mine, my partners or any of my staff or mentors name. So we neeed to talk about raising the number of bans we can have since we have a whole new thing to ban for
[11:19 AM]  Mallory Destiny: I have registered my avatar name with the Chamber of Commerce.. so I can sue the one who uses it! :-p
[11:19 AM]  Jumpman Lane: ive got enemies jack
[11:19 AM]  Jumpman Lane: tons of them
[11:20 AM]  Michi Lumin: Allowing, for example, single sign-on to SL would improve uptake greatly…. That said, I don’t really want particle spam happening under my name every week….
[11:20 AM]  Jumpman Lane: i do not want any Jumpman Lane’s running around
[11:20 AM]  Master Kane: and thats our fault, jump?
[11:20 AM]  Master Kane: lol
[11:20 AM]  Equinox Pinion: lol
[11:20 AM]  Jumpman Lane: ive begun the process of tradmarking my avatar name
[11:20 AM]  Jack Linden: Ouch Melody. I think ‘bother’ is overly strong. Sometimes we make changes due to resident feedback, but sometimes the business need is such that we can’t. It varies with each case but we always listen. We’re always balancing the needs of the business, the existing residents, the need to help new residents find a home here, and so on. It’s never simply about one of those.
[11:20 AM]  Driftwood Miles: Jack will users be allowed to use Linden as a Display name?
[11:20 AM]  Jumpman Lane: oh i dont mind the enemies kane lol
[11:20 AM]  Jumpman Lane: follow my point
[11:20 AM]  Master Kane:
[11:20 AM]  Jumpman Lane: IF my avatar name is tradmarked
[11:20 AM]  Master Kane: keeps you entertaqined huh lol
[11:21 AM]  Jumpman Lane: will LL respect requests to deny other users from using it
[11:21 AM]  Jumpman Lane: and remove offenders etc
[11:21 AM]  Melody Regent: That is a very good Question Drift
[11:21 AM]  Driftwood Miles:
[11:21 AM]  Jumpman Lane: u listenin jack?
[11:21 AM]  Jack Linden: Drift.. I think Linden would be in the same blacklist that offensive words are for things like region naming. So i would expect that Linden would not be allowed (and yes I get the irony of that, hence the blog conversation).
[11:21 AM]  Michi Lumin: Well, trademark isn’t universal… Luskwood is a registered trademark but we sell avatars. If someone wants to make Luskwood Plumbing and Heating, that’s not a trademark violation. so its not as simple as that. Though, in the cases of direct imitation of your business, yeah, legally, that would help.
[11:21 AM]  Qie Niangao: Think of the poor bastards whose RL names are “Philip Linden”
[11:22 AM]  Trouble Streeter: so Linden isn’t allowed, but an estate owner’s name is?
[11:22 AM]  Master Kane: Jack.. then black list ALL our names
[11:22 AM]  Driftwood Miles: Oh you do Jack, I think irony doesn’t quite grasp the nettle
[11:22 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I guess I am not understanding why it is so significant to work on Display Names when there is so much other work to be done, let alone the problems and work these names may cause for residents.
[11:22 AM]  Michi Lumin: and, heh, yeah Jack that’s a bit of a kicker, LL doesn’t want anyone impersonating them but — we’re out to fend for ourselves, heh
[11:22 AM]  Master Kane: whats good to the geese is good for the gander
[11:22 AM]  Trouble Streeter: that’s patently unfair, Jack. And you know I’m usually sweetness about stuff
[11:22 AM]  Melody Regent: Nice Jack, protect yourselves and not the residents
[11:22 AM]  Melody Regent: AMAZING
[11:22 AM]  Ciaran Laval: Indeed, blacklist all existing names
[11:22 AM]  Driftwood Miles: that would be the solution Ciaran!
[11:22 AM]  Jumpman Lane: say that two times pink
[11:22 AM]  Jack Linden: As i just said, yes.. I understand how that seems. Which is why we’re discussing the feature and are open to making changes where we can to make it work well
[11:23 AM]  Bronson Blackadder: Im waiting to see a bajillion guy fawkes
[11:23 AM]  Jumpman Lane: who even wants this feature
[11:23 AM]  Master Kane: I read somewhere, where lindens are play GOD.. it seems so by this talk about dispaly names
[11:23 AM]  Jumpman Lane: weve spent years building our brand
[11:23 AM]  Master Kane: playing*
[11:23 AM]  Jumpman Lane: its bad enough all the Jumpmans runnin aroun
[11:23 AM]  Drongle McMahon: Disallow all user names, allowing opt-in.
[11:23 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: I can think of one thing that would assist in the mistaken identity thing with display names — Applying them only to avatars. Implement it so that any assets created by the avatars would not reference the display name anywhere as their creator/owner.
[11:23 AM]  Jack Linden: If we blacklist all existing names then Display Names would be unusable.
[11:24 AM]  Driftwood Miles: The best ideas are generally the simplest, this is over complicated. Just give new accounts the ability to have their own choice of unique names, first and second
[11:24 AM]  Ardy Lay: Linden is not an uncommon family name in the USA. Wonder how many this will effect?
[11:24 AM]  Sonya Haight: was supposed to be Philip LIndens the first week Bronson, then a week of Spartacus
[11:24 AM]  Jumpman Lane: who even wants dispaly names
[11:24 AM]  Master Kane: thats the point jack
[11:24 AM]  Jumpman Lane: again what will they be used for
[11:24 AM]  Jack Linden: You would almost never find a Display Name that would work.
[11:24 AM]  Jumpman Lane: roleplaying i think not
[11:24 AM]  Jumpman Lane: GRIEFING
[11:24 AM]  Ciaran Laval: There aren’t many Jumpman Lane’s and Lusciouslumpchunks McMillan’s in the world Jack
[11:24 AM]  Drongle McMahon: No Jack, theyb would not. There is an infinite number of available display names.
[11:24 AM]  Michi Lumin: It’s not a matter of who ‘wants’ the feature, Jumpan. It’s about new resident uptake, and the ease of new residents coming and expansion of SL, – which to be completely frank, if it doesn’t happen, we won’t have to worry about display names, as SL won’t be here. That said I reiterate i’m not keen on display names as the’re being implemented at this time
[11:24 AM]  Jumpman Lane: say werd ciaran
[11:24 AM]  aliz Viper: can names be seprated form uuid so one can chaneg name on teh fly liek cliant tag
[11:25 AM]  Master Kane: why dont you Lindens let us run around as a Linden… that isnt fair when others will run around “spoofing” others
[11:25 AM]  aliz Viper: cliant
[11:25 AM]  Jumpman Lane: if u sell Jumpy Lane and Jump Lane before i buy em im suing
[11:25 AM]  Jack Linden: Ciaran, yeah obviously there are unusual names. But there are more ‘common’ names. hence them being common.
[11:25 AM]  Jumpman Lane: if anybody uses Jumpman Lane im def suing
[11:25 AM]  Drongle McMahon: How about Tester ans Mole?
[11:25 AM]  Driftwood Miles: but the same applies to almost every mmporg sign up Jack, isn’t it the same in WOW?
[11:25 AM]  Jumpman Lane: its a silly idea people come to like thier names their “stuck” with
[11:26 AM]  Ciaran Laval: WoW is unique name per server
[11:26 AM]  Jumpman Lane: what about vanity names that really ARE vanity names like the last name dawson
[11:26 AM]  Driftwood Miles: ok but they cannot change week to week Ciaran?
[11:26 AM]  Jumpman Lane: only three log in and only two of those are active
[11:26 AM]  Dennis Lagan: i could already walk around today ofcourse with a group name called “Jumpman Lane’s Assistent’. if you look at it that way, we didn’t see to much abuse on that either i guess.
[11:26 AM]  Michi Lumin: Jack, I’ve been trying to get some feedback on this for a while: If a gray goo situation happens, and for example, the owner of the offensive object is “Michi Lumin (michi.iumin)”, and 1500 people abuse report that account, but a good 100 or so abuse report mine — am I likely to be suspended? (This goes for anyone, i’m just using my name as an example.)
[11:26 AM]  Ciaran Laval: No Drift, not as far as I know
[11:26 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Why can’t people create user names, checking to make sure that username doesn’t already exist?
[11:26 AM]  Sonya Haight: so is every mmorpg I’ve played Ciaran, alway one per server
[11:26 AM]  Driftwood Miles: thanks
[11:26 AM]  Melody Regent: Make it Fair across the board, do not set a double standard that say The Linden business is far more important than any and all inworld business. So we wil not allow a Linden name to be used and abused but screw the residents, use and abuse those names all you want
[11:26 AM]  Jumpman Lane: u tarnish the uniqueness of the last name dawson by letting every sap choose it
[11:26 AM]  Techwolf Lupindo: Are you going to refund the $1,000 plus USD for custom names?
[11:26 AM]  Driftwood Miles: strikes me as reaching
[11:27 AM]  Master Kane: “oh crap.. I used .. “kissmybutt1979″ and I cant change my name. so I will use a display name instead” DOH!!! people have alts
[11:27 AM]  Jumpman Lane: u kill a part of the culture of second life by getting rid of the age of certain names
[11:27 AM]  Jack Linden: There are 3 places where we lose a huge number of new signups as they come through the signup page. The first two are obvious.. the Captcha piece and the age restriction. The third largest drop off is the name choice. We lose hundreds of thousands of people at the name choice each year. Consider what that means for the population of active Second Life users. We feel it’s really important for us as a community to solve that problem.
[11:27 AM]  Daten Thielt: So let them choose their own last name
[11:27 AM]  Trouble Streeter: I’m disappointed, Jack. Solve YOUR problem, but make shitloads for us. way to keep the people who’ve invested in here. all for hypothetical new users
[11:27 AM]  Jumpman Lane: ur gonna lose em the first hour they log in ANYWAY with that flight sim ulator like interface of viewer 2.0
[11:27 AM]  Alexxa Despres: and I agree Jack… but a solution that creates a problem…. is it REALLY a solution?
[11:27 AM]  Driftwood Miles: There are a lot of technical reasons why that happens Jack and one of the main reasons is hopping backwards and forwards from name page to name page to pick a matching second name
[11:28 AM]  Master Kane: Jack.. the name deal is their fault… deal with it (last name generations) or dont use SL.. god
[11:28 AM]  Ciaran Laval: Avatars United showed the problematic nature of this change when people started using other names there, whereas I can see why some people like the idea of display names, and it’s common business practice, it’s not quite so easy here as it is in the office
[11:28 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: That’s not a bad idea, but why can’t they do that as part of the username, checking to be sure that username does not already exist?
[11:28 AM]  Jack Linden: It’s also been a heavily requested feature, but it’s one that comes with some real complexity too, especially for folks who have brands built around their name.
[11:28 AM]  Equinox Pinion: you cannot solve a problem by creating a bigger one
[11:28 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Why a display name and username?
[11:28 AM]  Sonya Haight: Jack when is keeping the residents you have going to start being weighed against the acquiring new users?
[11:28 AM]  Driftwood Miles: Offer two unique names of their choice. Nobody really expects more
[11:28 AM]  aliz Viper: How baout peopel sign up with their socal or osme form of id taht willbelinked touuid and they cna just chaneg name later one teh display name
[11:28 AM]  Jumpman Lane: will a noob even know the difference
[11:28 AM]  Jumpman Lane: bother to slog through TWO name choices
[11:28 AM]  Michi Lumin: Well, it seems, honestly, the ‘solution’ the ‘problem’ of people having brands built around their name is, – to be honest , at this point: “too bad”.
[11:28 AM]  Jack Linden: Drift.. we’ve tried a few methods with A/B testing.. it amost doesn’t matter how it’s done.. the restricted name choice loses people.
[11:29 AM]  Melody Regent: let them create thier own first and last name but why do we need to be able to constaly change it. Make the user names one of a kind. LOADS of places do that
[11:29 AM]  Jumpman Lane: u loose people anyways
[11:29 AM]  Driftwood Miles: ok , I take that, but just give them two names…..job done.
[11:29 AM]  Driftwood Miles: agreed Mel
[11:29 AM]  Dennis Lagan: i agree with Melody.
[11:29 AM]  Jumpman Lane: and most online games have that sort of name restriction
[11:29 AM]  Jumpman Lane: most online websites
[11:29 AM]  Jack Linden: Sonya, it is weighed against it. Always. That’s why we’re having this conversation and why we’re pushing the feature out as a beta for folks to play with and give feedback rather than just launching it.
[11:29 AM]  Jumpman Lane: somebody is sellin u a load of crap
[11:29 AM]  Melody Regent: and loosing the people that have been on the grid for years, built business, paid you hundreds of thousands of dollars?
[11:29 AM]  Master Kane: Jack.. I agree with sonya.. when are we going to start to count to BRING YOU MORE users? fix the crap and we will.. otherwise thats ONE major factor you lose users.. si that WE DONT TELL people because of all the messups
[11:30 AM]  Jumpman Lane: u cant be whomsoever u want to make a yahoo mail account
[11:30 AM]  Jack Linden: We’re trying hard to balance the feature in a way that is acceptable. So the feedback has been awesome and helpful so far
[11:30 AM]  Master Kane: it isnt rocket sience
[11:30 AM]  Jumpman Lane: deep six the feature
[11:30 AM]  Michi Lumin: That’s actually a good point. Uptake could really improve, if the existing resident base was happier… put simply
[11:30 AM]  aliz Viper: Imjustwondring can account anem and the name we haveover our head canthey be seperated
[11:30 AM]  Drongle McMahon: Restricted choiuce is not the same thing as checking against previous use.
[11:30 AM]  aliz Viper: form clinet side
[11:30 AM]  Melody Regent: Lets get LOTS of people on the grid but noone make a busines cause you can be mimiced. BUt hey, as long as the Linden name is protected
[11:30 AM]  Sonya Haight: I like the idea of let them make their own, then no changing.
[11:30 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Isn’t it much easier, let manpower, and money to add in code for users to create their own username, making sure that username does not already exist?
[11:30 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: less*
[11:30 AM]  Master Kane: you all sit and watch.. with the teen grid closing… everyone here will have to age verify
[11:30 AM]  Jumpman Lane: if that is the reason for the display names RETENTION just drop the price on custom names
[11:31 AM]  Ciaran Laval: Choosing your own name is a good idea
[11:31 AM]  Jumpman Lane: less than 5000
[11:31 AM]  Mallory Destiny: why not give all current resident the option to opt-out their own avatar name from being chosen by others/ new residents… that gives a fair chance for all who have build brands on their avatar name
[11:31 AM]  Ciaran Laval: it’s duplicate names where it gets sticky
[11:31 AM]  Techwolf Lupindo: If display names is going to be push ahead, then just use radom names for account creations and let the new users set the name _after_ they log in.
[11:31 AM]  Jumpman Lane: im id verified with them pesky lindens hehehehehe
[11:31 AM]  Alexxa Despres: agreed Ciaran
[11:31 AM]  Driftwood Miles: thats the whole point Ciaran
[11:31 AM]  Equinox Pinion: how will newbies feel when they are able to sign with James Bond and than see there are already 1000 James Bonds in sl
[11:31 AM]  Driftwood Miles: nothing more nothing less
[11:31 AM]  Drongle McMahon: Exactly right Ciaran.
[11:31 AM]  Jack Linden: Sonya, but if we let them make their own Display Name at signup – but they couldn’t use any username previously used, they wouldn’t be able to find one.
[11:31 AM]  Melody Regent: SO Jack, how will you handle ARs one people that use names that are trademarked or names that are changed to make life hard. I do not have some really coolio awsome blossom name people are DYING to have so the ONLY reason someone will use it, is to greif
[11:31 AM]  aliz Viper: canuuid be changed without loss of inventory
[11:31 AM]  Techwolf Lupindo: YOu said choosing name was one place where sighn up are lost. Just get rid of it entirelly.
[11:32 AM]  Michi Lumin: What I suggested earlier was, if someone is using a display name that matches another user’s username, that could be displayed in a different color… I think Jack was saying there was a similar idea where the display name would be in a different color if it simplly didn’t match -their- username… Either one would at least be somewhat of a mitigation.
[11:32 AM]  Jumpman Lane: good question melody
[11:32 AM]  Trouble Streeter: so you’r esaying Jack, that gmail is dead, since you have to pick a unique name at signup? poor google…
[11:32 AM]  Daten Thielt: How does this fit into Scripting? A ton of objects could be broken into if there not using key verification?
[11:32 AM]  Mallory Destiny: I think this might solve it for many: why not give all current resident the option to opt-out their own avatar name from being chosen by others/ new residents… that gives a fair chance for all who have build brands on their avatar name..
[11:32 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: Jack: Any comment on restricting display names from assets, and using only the SL username?
[11:32 AM]  Trouble Streeter: didn’t know it was hard to find a unique one…
[11:32 AM]  Driftwood Miles: Yahoo never had a problem, or google or wow how many sign ups do they have?
[11:32 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: for right click –> inspect things
[11:32 AM]  Drongle McMahon: So Jack … they still have vto choose a user name too? Won’t that stop them just as it does now?
[11:32 AM]  Master Kane: G R I E V E R C I T Y.. it screams it
[11:32 AM]  Michi Lumin: Well, Jack, I’m not sure that’s true, I think that the probability, actually, of someone choosing (previousfirstname space previouslastname) is pretty unlikely, even with all the users in SL.. You might want to test -that- actually
[11:32 AM]  Jumpman Lane: exactly driftwood
[11:33 AM]  aliz Viper: hummm i haev an idea when peopel sign up they get a uuid and peopel can customize it to dispaly what ever they want
[11:33 AM]  Jack Linden: Melody, we’d use the same method we do for impersonation now. People can and do impersonate already.. this feature makes it easier (but more risky for them as we can see it).
[11:33 AM]  aliz Viper: do ar adn everything by selcting an av an dpasting their uuid
[11:33 AM]  Qie Niangao: (actually, Kelly has been addressing the scripting stuff… very little if anything will out-right *break*, but there are some things that will work more naturally if rescripted to use Display Name)
[11:33 AM]  Michi Lumin: More risky for them? How is that?
[11:33 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: I agree with Michi. Have y’all run any tests to see how likely it would be for users to run into a previously used name?
[11:33 AM]  Jumpman Lane: IF you can see it and IF you can catch them
[11:33 AM]  Jumpman Lane: as IF you guys really deeply investigate ars
[11:33 AM]  Melody Regent bounces up and down “Yay, make it easier for them pleeeez”
[11:34 AM]  Melody Regent: Jack, what about TradeMarks?
[11:34 AM]  Alexxa Despres: Does LL REALLY want MORE A/R reports to deal with? I would think you guys have gracious plenty as is
[11:34 AM]  Jumpman Lane: if IM ared cause someone is impersonating me how likely is it that we get any justice
[11:34 AM]  Sonya Haight: how is it more risky? it will be allowed so what are they risking?
[11:34 AM]  Jumpman Lane: hear hear melody
[11:34 AM]  Jumpman Lane: what about trademarks
[11:34 AM]  aliz Viper: yeah y av got fake ar spamed it takingfor ever to get then mian back
[11:34 AM]  Master Kane: they cant even keep up with the small stuff as it is now, alexxa.. true point
[11:34 AM]  Michi Lumin: To put it bluntly, I’m pretty sure that we’ll get replicator/gray goo , in our area on the mainland, spanning several sims, the week this is rolled out. And if I’m not suspended due to misplaced ARs I’d be very, very surprised.
[11:34 AM]  Jack Linden: Michi.. not the case sadly. We have used a huge number of the most common surnames in the world. From all countries. Try checking with Search.. all the chinese family names, french surnames, western names.. if you’re first name is John, finding an account name is incredibly hard.
[11:34 AM]  aliz Viper: ar shoudl be treted more seriouly
[11:35 AM]  aliz Viper: not justpoint click repeat
[11:35 AM]  Jumpman Lane: on yahoo too
[11:35 AM]  Driftwood Miles: Jack I have never in my life come across anyone on the web in real life and in the UK phone book of 50+ million names who has the same Real name as myself. (makes me kinda proud actually )
[11:35 AM]  Alexxa Despres: Crud…my first name is John
[11:35 AM]  Jumpman Lane: on just about any other place on the web too jack
[11:35 AM]  Michi Lumin: The FAQ even says that users have to be more careful when seleccting who to AR. The problem is, they wont….
[11:35 AM]  Jumpman Lane: if RETENTION is the idea behind display names its a crappy idea
[11:35 AM]  Drongle McMahon: You can call yourself jack instead.
[11:35 AM]  aliz Viper: haveyoutried goodling it
[11:35 AM]  aliz Viper: googling
[11:35 AM]  Jack Linden: Drift, that’s awesome.. but not usual. Most people do not have that unique a real life name
[11:35 AM]  Master Kane: JACK JACK JACK.. isnt this SL???? whats the IDEA behind SL??? remind us ALL please
[11:35 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: That’s what I was saying about removing display name references from the metadata that tags assets.
[11:36 AM]  Driftwood Miles: My name is not unusual Jack
[11:36 AM]  Driftwood Miles: at least so my parents told me
[11:36 AM]  Michi Lumin: idea behind SL is to be a profitable business, if you want plain honesty. I get the intention. I just am worried about the repercussions and how they can be mitigated.
[11:36 AM]  Driftwood Miles: I quite like it qz296& Smyth
[11:36 AM]  Alexxa Despres:
[11:36 AM]  Equinox Pinion: lol
[11:36 AM]  aliz Viper: hwo about in sl
[11:36 AM]  Jumpman Lane: look it u kill second life culture by getting rid of the uniques of time specific last names
[11:36 AM]  Bronson Blackadder: thats it… my display name will be JACKMAN LANE
[11:36 AM]  aliz Viper: peopel names dontshow up
[11:36 AM]  Michi Lumin: That’s true. If objects only contained usernames, that’d force a username lookup and compare on the part of the buyer/ARer…
[11:37 AM]  Sonya Haight: how can any Smyth name be unusual?
[11:37 AM]  aliz Viper: unles peopelgive their clalingcard
[11:37 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: instead of “creator: Clinton Oddfellow (clinton.oddfellow),” eliminate the display name entirely and have it like we do now, “Creator: clinton.oddfellow”
[11:37 AM]  aliz Viper: liek in rl
[11:37 AM]  Sonya Haight: I believe your parents Drift
[11:37 AM]  Jumpman Lane: u open u company up to a zillion extra ars ur company wonty really look deeply into
[11:37 AM]  Daten Thielt: The only Thing I can see comming out of this is more work for the lindens and support teams, Wich means sloppy work because they are already streched enough
[11:37 AM]  Jumpman Lane: say that again
[11:37 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: Objects do not need to have any reference to the display name in them.
[11:37 AM]  Jumpman Lane: i say who ever dreamt this up shopu8ld be fired
[11:37 AM]  Michi Lumin: Heh, I’ve found that ARs do work — that’s a bit what i’m worried about in fact
[11:37 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: since, unless I am horribly mistaken, you will still be able to look people up by their username.
[11:37 AM]  Jumpman Lane: shown the door
[11:37 AM]  aliz Viper: you can make us lindens for a day to help out
[11:37 AM]  aliz Viper: lol
[11:37 AM]  Jack Linden: I think from my perspective, one of the questions I’m trying to get to grips with is the scale of the impersonation issue. Clearly it worries you guys a lot but is it really true that there will suddenly be an epidemic of impersonation? Would it really be more of a problem than the many other forms of griefing that happen inworld or in the real world. If it really is that big a risk then we need to think it through but it’s hard to know for sure.
[11:38 AM]  Jumpman Lane: its like every year u lindens dream up something TRULY crappy for sl
[11:38 AM]  Jumpman Lane: force feed it to us then take it back woops sorry
[11:38 AM]  Michi Lumin: Jack, in our case, absolutely.
[11:38 AM]  Sonya Haight: for scamming purposes their will be Jack
[11:38 AM]  Drongle McMahon: Jaack – again. Why will the remaining need to choose a user name not have the same effect it does now, just because there is a display name too?
[11:38 AM]  Trouble Streeter: so… can we get to Emerald and the Other Stuff now? I think we’re blindingly united that display names suck as proposed now.
[11:38 AM]  Ciaran Laval: There was on Avatars United Jack, that’s why the verification thing was brought in and over there it was a lot less of an issue
[11:38 AM]  Michi Lumin: I don’t think you understand that, and I desperately want to make you understand: we get attacked regularly by the 4chan types….
[11:38 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I think many many people are telling you that it is a huge risk, Jack.
[11:38 AM]  Jumpman Lane: they will impersontae prokofy neva you know that
[11:38 AM]  Sonya Haight: there*
[11:38 AM]  Equinox Pinion: yes there will be a problem if you let them change it once a week
[11:38 AM]  Master Kane: Jakc.. nah… just give us all a Linden name, and we’ll be fine
[11:38 AM]  Master Kane:
[11:38 AM]  Michi Lumin: To think that someone wouldn’t set off a gridwide particle replicator with one of our names on it is…. its just *going to happen*.
[11:38 AM]  aliz Viper: what i fthey impersate lidnens
[11:38 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: Jack: Typical griefing is usually something that is just griefer –> victim. With display name impersonation, someone could go to say, Dublin with my name as their display name and create a ruckus and act the goat.
[11:39 AM]  Qie Niangao votes for NEXT topic.
[11:39 AM]  Jumpman Lane: if they impersonate HIM it will be on a grand scale
[11:39 AM]  Master Kane: 2nd that Qie
[11:39 AM]  Jumpman Lane: even if it is ONLY prokofuy neva
[11:39 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: and then Dublin, unless they were smart enough to look at the real username
[11:39 AM]  Mallory Destiny: It is not so bad as griefing, I would just hate it to meet another Mallory Destiny on the grid.. that’s all
[11:39 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: would get pissed off at the real me.
[11:39 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Seconds that motion, Qie
[11:39 AM]  Jack Linden: Michi.. but your username would not be on it. So there would be no actin taken against you
[11:39 AM]  Melody Regent: Jack? Isnt ONE impersionation that SCREWS over a business enough?
[11:39 AM]  Jumpman Lane: me personally its a matter of BRAND
[11:39 AM]  Bronson Blackadder: Procoffee Never
[11:39 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: err, 3rds it
[11:39 AM]  Master Kane: hehe
[11:39 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: so instead of griefer –> victim, you have griefer –> 3rd party, and then 3rd party –> victim.
[11:39 AM]  Michi Lumin: Jack, true, but what if 100 out of 1500 people -mis AR me- ?
[11:39 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: double the lulz, double the fun for trolls.
[11:39 AM]  aliz Viper: this is a game right
[11:39 AM]  Michi Lumin: Nevermind the fact that people will be “Michi lumin set off those boxes!”
[11:39 AM]  Jumpman Lane: all to retain a noob that would prob quit ANYWAY
[11:39 AM]  Michi Lumin: I’d be freakin toast, socially.
[11:40 AM]  aliz Viper: should having fun coem first
[11:40 AM]  Mallory Destiny: no aliz, sl is not a game
[11:40 AM]  Jumpman Lane: retention as a problem is bigger than picking a name
[11:40 AM]  Jack Linden: Melody.. that’s my question. This can already happen, right now. And does occasionally.. and we deal with them through ARs.
[11:40 AM]  aliz Viper: but but these women play with my herat so much here
[11:40 AM]  aliz Viper: jk
[11:40 AM]  Michi Lumin: Not at this kind of scale. I don’t see how , right now, someone could impersonate me while setting off goo/replicators.
[11:40 AM]  Driftwood Miles: jack , why do you not set up a test with some residents so that they can try finding a unique name that they like and see how long it takes
[11:40 AM]  Driftwood Miles: or if it is possible
[11:40 AM]  Master Kane: JACK 11:40.. Emerald and ATLAS
[11:40 AM]  Jack Linden: Melody, if someone wanted to mimic you, today, they could. And it’s pretty effective too.
[11:40 AM]  Michi Lumin: The issue is, with griefing attacks like that you bother SO many people at once, its a highly ‘efficient’ impersonation issue.
[11:40 AM]  Master Kane: JACK 11:40.. Emerald and ATLAS
[11:41 AM]  Melody Regent: but you are making it easier now for them, your own words
[11:41 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Indeed, MK!
[11:41 AM]  aliz Viper: Atlas
[11:41 AM]  Luna Bliss is Offline
[11:41 AM]  Melody Regent: BEfore we leave this topic, it has been asked several times
[11:41 AM]  Melody Regent: what about TRADEMARKED NAMES?
[11:41 AM]  Trouble Streeter: [11:38 AM] Trouble Streeter: so… can we get to Emerald and the Other Stuff now? I think we’re blindingly united that display names suck as proposed now.
[11:41 AM]  Jumpman Lane: im nort getting all hyped up over this display name issue. soon as some sap infringes on my work ill just let my lawyers do the talking
[11:41 AM]  Jumpman Lane: lets yap about emerald
[11:42 AM]  aliz Viper: hde naem make prime name tags
[11:42 AM]  Ardy Lay: Jack, some people do not AR the objects, they are the name somebody told them was on the objects or they just glance at it andy type it in to the people chooser. You do watch for heresay AR’s right???
[11:42 AM]  Drongle McMahon: jack. You know people stop at the name choice thing, but do you know how many of those come back after thinking about it? I did that. If you bdon’t know that, your assumptions are invalid.
[11:42 AM]  Jack Linden: Melody, yes. It would be easier but tracked. Consider.. if someone replicates your name tag now with an attachment.. it’s extremely hard for us to know they did it. But, if they used their Display Name, we will see it, absolutely, and can take action.
[11:42 AM]  Melody Regent: what about TRADEMARKED NAMES?
[11:42 AM]  Jumpman Lane: what about trademarked names?
[11:42 AM]  Melody Regent: there needs to be a system to get them on a blacklist no?
[11:42 AM]  Jumpman Lane: u listening jack
[11:42 AM]  Mallory Destiny: what about trademarked names?
[11:42 AM]  Sonya Haight: will you take action if they use a trademarked name?
[11:42 AM]  Jumpman Lane: caws im tradmarking mine
[11:43 AM]  Jack Linden: We have a DMCA process for trademarks etc, so we would deal with those the usual way.
[11:43 AM]  Mallory Destiny: mine is registered
[11:43 AM]  Michi Lumin: whoa whoa no.
[11:43 AM]  Michi Lumin: DMCA is not trademark.
[11:43 AM]  Michi Lumin: DMCA is copyright.
[11:43 AM]  Michi Lumin: Which is completely unrelaqted to trademark.
[11:43 AM]  Jumpman Lane: exactly
[11:43 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: Copyright is VERY VERY different from trademark.
[11:43 AM]  aliz Viper: how baout levaingthis as they are
[11:43 AM]  Melody Regent: make a blacklist system Jack that people can PROVE they have a trademark and you black list the name
[11:43 AM]  Drongle McMahon: DMCA doesn’t apply to trademarks.
[11:43 AM]  Michi Lumin: Infact, filing a DMCA on a trademark makes the DMCA invalid.
[11:43 AM]  Master Kane: Agree Michi
[11:43 AM]  Jumpman Lane: u gotta be kiddin me lol
[11:43 AM]  Jack Linden: Yes, sorry, as Michi says. But we deal with those kinds of ‘rights’ issues all the time.. so we would use the same process.
[11:44 AM]  Michi Lumin: LL doesn’t seem to understand this and its a problem. I’ve been told to file DMCAs on our trademarks, — we can’t.
[11:44 AM]  Master Kane: we cant jack
[11:44 AM]  Jack Linden: If there is a rights issue.. then you would need to contact us
[11:44 AM]  Melody Regent: so use an invalid process?
[11:44 AM]  Jumpman Lane: makes me almost want to change sides on eros llc vs linden research
[11:44 AM]  Techwolf Lupindo: Jack, filding a DCMA on a trademark invalieds it.
[11:44 AM]  Jumpman Lane: u gotta be kiddin me
[11:44 AM]  Michi Lumin: Jack when you contact LL about trademarks, they say file DMCA. That’s not…. legal. heh.
[11:44 AM]  Melody Regent: Jack, we need to be able to file a TradeMark and that gers added to the blacklist
[11:44 AM]  Master Kane: and not dmca? and how long would it take
[11:44 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: Jack: will you be improving the intellectual property violation system (DMCA or otherwise) so that our takedown requests are not “lost in the shuffle?”
[11:44 AM]  aliz Viper: can lidnen labs cret a trad markingfirm
[11:44 AM]  Mallory Destiny: that’s for USA law, I am not in the USA..
[11:44 AM]  aliz Viper: just liekin rel life
[11:44 AM]  aliz Viper: rel life
[11:44 AM]  Jack Linden: I’m taking anote here to make sure we cover that in the faq. I want to be be sure we explain clearly what is required.
[11:44 AM]  aliz Viper: aheva ocurt system too
[11:44 AM]  Michi Lumin: Linden Legal has to have some sort of in-take for trademark issues separate from DMCA.
[11:44 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: and will you be streamlining the process, and cutting down the time it takes from complaint to resolution?
[11:45 AM]  aliz Viper: court
[11:45 AM]  Melody Regent: AMAZING
[11:45 AM]  Jumpman Lane: or get sued
[11:45 AM]  Jack Linden: So we have 15 mins left. Someone wanted to talk about Emerald.
[11:45 AM]  Master Kane: we cannot file a dmca on trademark names jack
[11:45 AM]  Qie Niangao: or… sell exclusive naming rights for US$100 a pop.
[11:45 AM]  aliz Viper: mayor governer states
[11:45 AM]  Michi Lumin: Trademark does not go through the same “Takedown/challenge” process that copyright does.
[11:45 AM]  aliz Viper: teh works
[11:45 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: lol 7 and a half minutes for the 2 topics remaining.
[11:45 AM]  Jack Linden: What was the Q about Emerald?
[11:45 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: well, per topic
[11:45 AM]  Master Kane: is it ever coming back?
[11:45 AM]  Master Kane: need to know today
[11:46 AM]  Master Kane: and yes Ive read phil post
[11:46 AM]  Jack Linden: Master, I believe we’re talking to the team about what would be required for that to be feasible. I don’t have any more detail than that
[11:46 AM]  Master Kane: doesnt say much, as usual.. nice guy but never future agendas
[11:46 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Please don’t leave without discussin Atlas, Jack.
[11:46 AM]  Jumpman Lane: atlas?
[11:47 AM]  Master Kane: so your going to let copybotters and cryolife and vlife makers back into sl?
[11:47 AM]  Master Kane: this makes no sense
[11:47 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: It isn’t out of SL, MK.
[11:47 AM]  Master Kane: tis my point
[11:47 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: and both parties are working on this
[11:48 AM]  Jack Linden: Master – I can’t comment on individuals.. and this is being handled by a different team, but we took the actions we did because we take our role seriously where third party viewers and our residents safety are concerned
[11:48 AM]  Master Kane: and your residents are getting stuff copybotted
[11:48 AM]  Master Kane: explain please
[11:48 AM]  Sonya Haight: MK that happens with other viewers mostly
[11:48 AM]  Master Kane: lol
[11:48 AM]  Sonya Haight: at least i haven’t seen a way for Emerald to do it
[11:49 AM]  Jack Linden: APinkSwan.. what specifically did you want an answer on re. Atlas? It’s a program available to the largest estates that includes access to an account manager
[11:49 AM]  Pavl Duke is Online
[11:49 AM]  Michi Lumin: very ayn rand, Jack.
[11:49 AM]  MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: [Michi Lumin - Ch.1]: tongue out
[11:49 AM]  MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: [Michi Lumin - Ch.1]: tongue in
[11:49 AM]  Jumpman Lane: i know
[11:49 AM]  Master Kane: peopel that use emerald need to learn how to code with Open source too.. before they go believe smack talk from the makers of that code
[11:49 AM]  Jumpman Lane: i feel like shrugging lol
[11:49 AM]  Oceanis Decosta is Online
[11:49 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Where is the information on this program Jack?
[11:50 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: We have been asking for more information on reduced tier deals for a long time.
[11:50 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Are reduced tiers part of this program?
[11:50 AM]  Sonya Haight: need info on size of estates to participate etc Jack
[11:50 AM]  Kace Box is Online
[11:50 AM]  Michi Lumin: I think what Jack is saying is, that nobody here is Atlas, so our shrugging will have little to no effect on the world
[11:50 AM]  Jack Linden: We haven’t pushed any info out there as yet APinkSwan but we do need to do that. We obviously want people to aspire to reach that level.
[11:51 AM]  Master Kane: so more than one or two sims.. gotcha
[11:51 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: It all seems very secretive and from what I have read, only a chosen few are allowed to participate right now?
[11:51 AM]  Michi Lumin: I’m thinking more like 40 sims
[11:51 AM]  Master Kane: mhm or 400
[11:51 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: and the KB still indicates there is NO discount on purchases or tier.
[11:51 AM]  Uni Ninetails: heard someone with 18 got in.
[11:52 AM]  Jack Linden: We’ve been too quiet about it so far – which doesn’t make sense when you consider that we want people to grow their estates to that level. So I would expect us to be putting the info out there.
[11:52 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: You have heard many of us complaining about secret deals and reduced tier deals.
[11:52 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Is reduced tier part of that program Jack?
[11:52 AM]  Jack Linden: APinkSwan.. it’s simply based on estate size. No favouritism.. if an estate is large enough then we reach out and have that conversation. Some of those we contact have joined the program, and some have chosen not to
[11:52 AM]  Drongle McMahon: How can people get there if they can’t compete because of selective tier discounts?
[11:52 AM]  Sonya Haight: when Jack? Estate owners have been asking for it how many months now?
[11:52 AM]  Michi Lumin: It’s business case, guys. If what you do makes a good business case to LL, to entice you to either grow or remain, then they’ll put out a motivator, a lot of, a LOT of companies do that….its not abnormal
[11:53 AM]  Drongle McMahon: What is “large enough”?
[11:53 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I understand a reduced purchase price, but NOT reduced tier.
[11:53 AM]  Uni Ninetails: known estates that were large enough, and would still be here if LL had “reached out”
[11:53 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Please….simple question. Is reduced tier part of that program?
[11:53 AM]  Master Kane: and dont forget all the copybotted stuff that goes with that too
[11:53 AM]  Michi Lumin: eh? if I get 400 phone lines from the phone company I get a bulk rate too. Or 50 domain names from goDaddy… its pretty standard.
[11:54 AM]  Jack Linden: As Michi says, we love to hear from residents who have specific business plans that they want our partnership with. That isn’t limited to Atlas members
[11:54 AM]  aliz Viper:
[11:54 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Is reduced tier part of that program Jack?
[11:54 AM]  Sonya Haight: Michi do you rent out those phone lines at a reduced rate because you get them cheaper?
[11:54 AM]  Michi Lumin: Yes Sonya.
[11:55 AM]  Jack Linden: APinkSwan.. I don’t believe so.. not by default certainly.
[11:55 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Also, when you were asked over and over again about this previously, why was Atlas not mentioned?
[11:55 AM]  Ardy Lay: CLECs do just that, Sonya.
[11:55 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Not by default? Okay, but reduced tier deals have been done, correct?
[11:55 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I mean we all know this is true, so just confirm it please.
[11:55 AM]  Sonya Haight: so it will eventually knock out anyone that can’t afford their own 400 lines?
[11:55 AM]  Michi Lumin: Jack is saying that Atlas is basically ‘concierge on top of concierge’, for extremely large estate owners… I don’t see the cloak and dagger there
[11:55 AM]  Jack Linden: APinkSwan.. we originally ran a trial of account management for large estates – the Atlas ‘tag’ was more recent.
[11:56 AM]  Michi Lumin: Sonya, not neccessarily at all, no. Different people offer very very different services, some which we couldn’t or wouldn’t want to get into the market of.
[11:56 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Why not just tell us when we asked then Jack?
[11:56 AM]  aliz Viper: let teh privet este owers who arr ick host thei rown servers
[11:56 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Now you have blogs and sites about all of this which makes it look so secretive.
[11:56 AM]  CPU Core: it all seems unfair to me
[11:56 AM]  Ardy Lay: Sonya, it’s probably a bit more complicated in the telco resale business. Margins get so small the CLECs either build their own infrastructure or dry up.
[11:56 AM]  Jack Linden: APinkSwan.. it’s totally normal for a business to deal with large customers through account management especially as their accounting etc is more complex and their orders are often large.
[11:56 AM]  Clinton Oddfellow: no more secretive than the united airlines red carpet club.
[11:57 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Again though, before you go. Please confirm what we know….reduced tier has been given.
[11:57 AM]  Michi Lumin: Exclusivity for top customers has been around.. before the internet. so. yeah… Atlas? I’d just consider renaming it maybe, but principle, bleh whatever heh
[11:58 AM]  Master Kane: Jack.. and that is the exxact reason why some small mom and pop shops close doors too.. because of the “business deals”
[11:58 AM]  Idella Quandry is Online
[11:58 AM]  Jack Linden: APinkSwan.. it’s not secretive, it’s just normal business.. the problem is us not putting more info out which I agree, we should do. But I think more people would realise that whena customer is operating at a much higher sales level that will change things.
[11:58 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Change a bulk purchase price, sure….not tier.
[11:58 AM]  CPU Core: it is secretive we dont know the prices
[11:58 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: It is secretive and there is reduced tier.
[11:58 AM]  Melody Regent: I love how he avoids direct questions asked over and over. It’s an art, I swear to the gods it is
[11:58 AM]  Michi Lumin: i dont think we want to get into arguing supply side economics or keynesian market practices in the OH. heh
[11:59 AM]  Jumpman Lane: say werd melody
[11:59 AM]  Master Kane: I was going to buy at least 10 more regions.. but with all this talk like this.. screw that
[11:59 AM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: and we asked for more discussion on this a long time ago. We were told Delby would be here to discuss.
[11:59 AM]  Jumpman Lane: atlas is the perfect name lol
[11:59 AM]  Master Kane: lol mel
[11:59 AM]  Drongle McMahon: Jack. Youb have been saying you should putb out more information for months. Who or what is stopping you?
[11:59 AM]  aliz Viper: hummm youhave that kidn of money
[11:59 AM]  Jumpman Lane: they’ll shrug
[11:59 AM]  Jack Linden: CPU Core -our business relationships with individual estate owners are not going to be public. Where we have general guidance or rates for things that we can apply to groups etc then sure, we can talk about that.
[11:59 AM]  Sonya Haight: Jack is there an Office Hours for those handling the Teen move?
[11:59 AM]  CPU Core: basically what this atlas program means is only a few people get wholesale prices while the rest of you dont get considered to be businesses entitled to them because your not big enough
[12:00 PM]  Clinton Oddfellow: This is how businesses have worked for a very long time.
[12:00 PM]  Jumpman Lane: exactly cpu
[12:00 PM]  CPU Core: you are treated as the end user
[12:00 PM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: So, the KB still does not reflect this Atlas Program
[12:00 PM]  Jack Linden: Okay guys.. I have to scoot to my next meeting. Thank you all for coming along!
[12:00 PM]  Michi Lumin: or its not advantageous to Linden Lab. Look, I’d love to get reduced tier. I’d also love to get a $10/mo cel phone plan. And free airline tickets.
[12:00 PM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: and users just go with what is LL Official there.
[12:00 PM]  Qie Niangao: thanks Jack
[12:00 PM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: That IS secretive.
[12:00 PM]  Master Kane: was that to me aliz.. if so yes.. but i dont want to be an anshe either and HOG it all up
[12:00 PM]  Jumpman Lane: yeah later days jackie boy
[12:00 PM]  Michi Lumin: freakin Verizon has similar plans and nobody’s feeling all dissed because of that.
[12:01 PM]  Driftwood Miles: Thanks Jack
[12:01 PM]  Jean Swashbuckler: ty Jack
[12:01 PM]  Equinox Pinion: take care jack
[12:01 PM]  Jack Linden: take care everyone!
[12:01 PM]  Trouble Streeter: bye Jack
[12:01 PM]  Sonya Haight: I am Michi!
[12:01 PM]  Master Kane: bye jack take care
[12:01 PM]  Jumpman Lane: im not against the atlas program per se
[12:01 PM]  aliz Viper: do soem of yougusy play sl as a job
[12:01 PM]  Michi Lumin: heh
[12:01 PM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Plans are fine, the LL official KB does not reflect any kind of program or various plans.
[12:01 PM]  Sonya Haight: oh wait i have one of those plans
[12:01 PM]  Alexxa Despres: Bye jack…thanks
[12:01 PM]  Lusciouslumpchunks McMillan: for def
[12:01 PM]  Lusciouslumpchunks McMillan: oops
[12:01 PM]  Jumpman Lane: lol
[12:01 PM]  Jumpman Lane: i got ya lushy\
[12:01 PM]  Lusciouslumpchunks McMillan: kk
[12:01 PM]  Jumpman Lane: i see why prok hates this guy lol
[12:01 PM]  Lusciouslumpchunks McMillan: :XD
[12:01 PM]  Sonya Haight: but I’m limited, so I have to move off that and onto my own personal plan and pay more, so I’m dissed about it.
[12:02 PM]  Michi Lumin: Most people probably are doing nowhere near the kind of business to essentially have a personal account executive with LL. IBM: might be.
[12:02 PM]  Jumpman Lane: i aint NEVER comin back to this oh
[12:02 PM]  Sonya Haight: Prok hates everyone
[12:02 PM]  Jumpman Lane: anshe chung is
[12:02 PM]  Michi Lumin: IBM or schools or something.
[12:02 PM]  Michi Lumin: Anshe chung is a millionaire.
[12:02 PM]  CPU Core: imagine real life businesses having to sell products at a profit when everyone is entitled to the same prices you pay anyway
[12:02 PM]  Jumpman Lane: prok hates me but he like SOMEBODY im sure hehehehe
[12:02 PM]  Jack Linden is Offline
[12:02 PM]  Michi Lumin: nobody I’ve seen.
[12:02 PM]  Clinton Oddfellow: Ailin probably paid extra for an account executive for years.
[12:02 PM]  Driftwood Miles: HIM/HER Self
[12:02 PM]  Jumpman Lane: anshe chung prob told them to take a flying leap lmao
[12:03 PM]  CPU Core: its why there is whole sale prices for businesses
[12:03 PM]  aliz Viper: oney omeny omeny take steh funout of every thing
[12:03 PM]  CPU Core: but SL dont give them
[12:03 PM]  Michi Lumin: to people who are making a couple US$ thousand a month? No.
[12:03 PM]  Master Kane: ok i am out.. take care all.. have a good day. thaks mel if your still here
[12:03 PM]  Jumpman Lane: i wouldnt want to give ll a crapload of monies as it is
[12:03 PM]  Jumpman Lane: the company seems shaky
[12:03 PM]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I’m out too…take care all!!
[12:03 PM]  Jumpman Lane: they just deepsixed a third of their staff
[12:03 PM]  Michi Lumin: LL can probably afford an account exec when someone’s doing several tens of thousands of dollars a month through SL.
[12:03 PM]  Jumpman Lane: they ceo QUIT or got fired
[12:03 PM]  Jumpman Lane: they shut down the teen grid
[12:04 PM]  Jumpman Lane: i mean is this a company whose stock you would buy lmao
[12:04 PM]  Clinton Oddfellow: LL isn’t public.
[12:04 PM]  CPU Core: half the people dont want to use their own viewer
[12:04 PM]  Jumpman Lane: their policies are antagonsitic to their customer base
[12:04 PM]  Jumpman Lane: i mean you WATCH ceos
[12:04 PM]  Alexxa Despres: Bye all..
[12:04 PM]  Ardy Lay: Sure, that bulk customer is also aggregating the support needs of a large number of residents reducing LL’s support costs in the process.
[12:04 PM]  Alexxa Despres: have a good weekend!
[12:04 PM]  Jumpman Lane: and u watch the direction a company is going if u WERE gonna buy thier stock if you could
[12:05 PM]  Jumpman Lane: my point was would u wanna sink a lotta monies into sl if ll is so shaky
[12:05 PM]  Drongle McMahon: They don’t want small customers. They want bog middlemen to isolate them from the end users. That’s what the big discounts are for.
[12:05 PM]  Clinton Oddfellow: like it or not, the direction of the product is determined largely by the person writing the cheques.
[12:05 PM]  Jumpman Lane: whether buying islands OR their stock
[12:05 PM]  Clinton Oddfellow: so, in this case.
[12:05 PM]  Clinton Oddfellow: the person sinking their money into SL is what is making it shaky
[12:05 PM]  Michi Lumin: Many businesses dont want small customers. They have a lot of overhead involved.
[12:05 PM]  Jumpman Lane: they ended that enterprise behind the firewall thing too lmao
[12:05 PM]  Jumpman Lane: DO they want large customers
[12:06 PM]  Drongle McMahon: That’s their choice. They just need to be open about it.
[12:06 PM]  Jumpman Lane: i say LL is a shaky company
[12:06 PM]  Jumpman Lane: no buy lol
[12:06 PM]  Clinton Oddfellow: Jumpman: LL is not a publicly held company.
[12:06 PM]  Jumpman Lane: by that i mean better keep your monies in ur wallet
[12:06 PM]  Jumpman Lane: I KNOW THAT
[12:06 PM]  Jumpman Lane: it still is a company
[12:06 PM]  Clinton Oddfellow: Jumpman: the investor funding LL is the one who is determining the direction of SL, voting with his dollar. He says jump, and they say “how high”
[12:06 PM]  Jumpman Lane: where u can sink monies into
[12:06 PM]  Michi Lumin: Honestly, to the board of directors, and if there were shareholders, what they’re doing right now, if it was publically traded, their actions would be considered advantageous. Keeping existing users happy, most of which are freebie accounts, doesn’t make for happy investors.

[11:02]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Ooh.. That was the fastest TP all day. (^_^)
[11:03]  LisaDeanna Zhora: incoming lol
[11:03]  Imnotgoing Sideways: JUMPEH!!! XD
[11:03]  Driftwood Miles: LOL
[11:03]  LisaDeanna Zhora: howdy jack, all
[11:03]  Jack Linden: hahaha Alexxa
[11:04]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Yay for lunch breaks on my own schedule!!! \(^_^)/
[11:04]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Konnichiwa <Hi> (^_^)
[11:04]  Jack Linden: we’re certainly getting some feedback on Display Names. whoosh.
[11:04]  Imnotgoing Sideways: No kidding. =^-^=
[11:04]  Jack Linden: just give folks a couple more mins to arrive
[11:04]  Jack Linden: i see folks flying in
[11:04]  Chaley May: ok
[11:04]  Uni Ninetails: Having it under NDa initially was silly.
[11:04]  Chaley May: you need to set a new tp point
[11:04]  Daniel Voyager: yes
[11:04]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Tell you what.. I’m gonna get grumpy when I start seeing “Immy” dupes. (=_=)
[11:04]  LisaDeanna Zhora: I was wondering if this was taken ovr by Yahoo!? with all this name thing
[11:04]  Jumpman Lane: where is the door lol
[11:05]  Jack Linden: yeah Chaley.. not sure who reset it to be down there
[11:05]  Chaley May: the tp point mustve been moved for the philip event
[11:05]  Jack Linden: probably
[11:05]  Ciaran Laval: The TP is a two day camel ride when I’m on my old Mac
[11:05]  Imnotgoing Sideways noms on rice and chicken. =^-^=
[11:05]  Alexxa Despres: <<<thinks Ciaran needs a high octane camel
[11:05]  Jumpman Lane: hehehe im at work i hope they dont catch meh!
[11:06]  Driftwood Miles: Hi Ciaran
[11:06]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Lawl ^-^
[11:06]  Ciaran Laval: Drift, Alexxa
[11:06]  Imnotgoing Sideways: My old boss loves “Immy”… She might stop by to point and laugh once in a while. (^_^)
[11:06]  Jack Linden: right, so lets make a start. i’d like to change things a little this week
[11:06]  Jack Linden: i had some great feedback from slcc folks about this office hour
[11:06]  Jumpman Lane: my boss aint hur and we’re relaTED BUT THAT WONT HELP NONE
[11:07]  Imnotgoing Sideways: XD
[11:07]  Jack Linden: and reading previous logs i miss some questions because of the sheer amount of chat, soo..
[11:07]  Jack Linden: i’d like someone to act as the triage for questions to me. basically all the questions would go to them and then they can pass them to me in direct IM
[11:07]  Jack Linden: so i’d need a volunteer who is quick with their keyboard
[11:08]  Jumpman Lane: ill do it
[11:08]  Ardy Lay: Sounds like a high stress job, Jack.
[11:08]  Jumpman Lane: we got the same hair
[11:08]  Jumpman Lane: no im kiddin
[11:08]  Jumpman Lane: i aint doin it
[11:08]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Oh, we’re doomed. (=_=)
[11:08]  Jack Linden: hehe
[11:08]  Chaley May: i dotn want to lol
[11:08]  Jumpman Lane: i got a zillion ims as it is
[11:08]  Jack Linden: no takers?
[11:08]  Equinox Pinion: i will pass
[11:08]  Samantha Glume: Bring in an Ontyne to do it
[11:08]  Qie Niangao: quick with keyboard: where’s Prok when you need him?
[11:08]  Driftwood Miles: sure Jack
[11:08]  Jumpman Lane: just do it in chat like always
[11:08]  Vanity Bonetto: you could just start with my IM from 2 hours ago Jack
[11:08]  Imnotgoing Sideways: My work lappie lags to bad for me to manage IMs on that scale. (^_^)
[11:08]  Jack Linden: Drift?
[11:08]  LisaDeanna Zhora: Pass
[11:08]  Chaley May: it would be too difficult to handle
[11:08]  Driftwood Miles: yes, I will
[11:08]  Jumpman Lane: then there is a formal record of what u choose to answer ignore etc
[11:08]  Jack Linden: awesome
[11:09]  Chaley May: yay
[11:09]  Uni Ninetails: I told ya Jack, use your wiki page for questions ahead of the OH
[11:09]  Jumpman Lane: soft peddle spin etc etc
[11:09]  Jack Linden: so. QUESTIONS IN DIRECT IM TO DRIFTWOOD PLEASE
[11:09]  Driftwood Miles: lmao
[11:09]  LisaDeanna Zhora: Drift. that nose it getting more brown
[11:09]  Jack Linden: Drift.. just IM me each question in turn as i get through them
[11:09]  Driftwood Miles: HAHAHA Lisa
[11:09]  Jumpman Lane: say what if i dont like drift and he has me on mute or something
[11:09]  LisaDeanna Zhora: Just trqeasing drift
[11:09]  Jack Linden: lets see if this is any more manageable than usual
[11:09]  Jumpman Lane: zara had a microphone
[11:09]  Opensource Obscure: Jumplane: you will say it in chat and we will handle that
[11:10]  Jumpman Lane: awesome open
[11:10]  Driftwood Miles: Ok first one in about pricing notices
[11:10]  Jack Linden: Drift.. also copy them inworld too. So people know what I’m answering
[11:10]  Jumpman Lane: here is MY question when are those 5 16 year old teens gettin here lmao
[11:10]  Driftwood Miles: Samantha Glume: Jack, long time reader, first time attendee… My question is why is LL showing the Estate owners such disrespect by refusing to come out with on-time pricing notices? We were told that we would be getting 6 months notice on pricing changes. Yet over 1.5 months have now passed since the June deadline. We have planning, budgets and commitments to keep and LL is making it incredibly difficult for us to continue. Can you please tell us when we can expect these notices?
[11:10]  Jumpman Lane: gawd
[11:11]  Drongle McMahon: Oh no … I thought we were going to guess the questions
[11:11]  LisaDeanna Zhora thinks this was a set up from the beginning
[11:11]  Jumpman Lane: by the anwers lol
[11:11]  LisaDeanna Zhora: please dont puch and stop running please
[11:11]  Jack Linden: Right.. Samantha, totally our bad on this. We should have posted it late July but are late. We know it’s overdue. With the re-org, slcc, layoffs and all the other things it didn’t get done when it should have
[11:11]  LisaDeanna Zhora: *oush
[11:12]  LisaDeanna Zhora: screw it
[11:12]  Jack Linden: We will get to it as soon as we can
[11:12]  Jumpman Lane: crap ill brb its cigarette break time theyll get suspicious if i dont show lol
[11:12]  Jumpman Lane: brb
[11:12]  Imnotgoing Sideways: I wonder if they still have Socrates’ “Q&A” listing mic… That was a good way to manage question flooding. (^_^)
[11:12]  Jack Linden: But i will say..that we have no plans to change pricing so it’s unlikely to change
[11:12]  Jack Linden: Next Q please!
[11:12]  Driftwood Miles: Imnotgoing Sideways: My question: What does the lab intend to do in regards to managing “spoofed” names by using Display Names to mimic other avatars? (>_<)
[11:12]  Equinox Pinion: wow…you just gave us he pricing jack..thanks
[11:13]  LisaDeanna Zhora: Torely has a video on that Immy
[11:13]  Driftwood Miles: LOL Equi
[11:13]  Samantha Glume: Well Jack, at least that is something… Just paid anungodly amount to move some gf’d hs sims and it would kill me to have them spoil…
[11:13]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Torly’s video doesn’t quite make me feel cozy about the lot of the situation. (._.)
[11:13]  Imnotgoing Sideways: There’s also a cult of personality to deal with. (T_T)
[11:13]  LisaDeanna Zhora: “… we -know0 how to tell…”
[11:13]  Imnotgoing Sideways: =^-^=
[11:13]  Jack Linden: Good Q.. so.. yes, someone can set their display name to being the same as somone elses. We are logging all Display Name changes and will take action if people abuse it. Also we are throttling how often they can change them. Lastly, anyone can, at any time, show usernames instead of display names
[11:14]  Chaley May: pretty soon there will be 1000 prokofyys to deal with
[11:14]  Jack Linden: To see who folks really are
[11:14]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Will there be a new AR field for “mimiced” avatar name? (o.o)
[11:14]  Jack Linden: Yeah, we’ll make ARing it easy
[11:14]  Imnotgoing Sideways: \(^_^)/
[11:14]  Uni Ninetails: Jack i beleive Latif made a comment on this during NDA.. Why not have it default to show both? instead of currently showing displayname only.
[11:14]  Jack Linden: Name Abuse or something
[11:14]  Imnotgoing Sideways << There can only be one. (^_^)y
[11:14]  Jack Linden: Uni.. Qs to Driftwood please
[11:15]  Driftwood Miles: Oliver Szondi: Hi, id like to ask a question to Jack, does he have an ETA on the closure of the teen grid/migration to the main grid and what will the land effects be for this?
[11:15]  Uni Ninetails: -.-
[11:15]  LisaDeanna Zhora: No Offense, But this idea isjust plain stupid. Just do what Phil said and offer the NEW people a way to make thier own names.
[11:15]  Vanity Bonetto: I still wait for the great AR team to take some action against a guy I ARed 6 or 8 times in 2009 when he difamed me and our company in his profile picks. so much about the wonderful AR team.
[11:15]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Dec 31. (^_^)
[11:15]  Jack Linden: Oliver, I don’t think we have a timeline nailed but probably by end of year. Terrence Linden will message more on it soon
[11:15]  Jack Linden: Land effects..
[11:16]  Opensource Obscure wonders if is “no offense” is actually compatible with “stupid”
[11:16]  Liisa Runo: so, when setting new display name, does the system automatically check if someone has it as login name, so people cant accidentally use someones user name as display, and get AR for that
[11:16]  Drongle McMahon: Im ,,, that should be “there can be only one”
[11:16]  Jack Linden: probably none. The folks that come across (like 16 and 17 yr olds) may absorb some more land but there aren’t thta many of them
[11:16]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Surely, there’s plenty of mainland to be found. =^-^=
[11:16]  Ciaran Laval: You Lindens don’t get out much if you think the main grid is eady for 16 year olds
[11:17]  Jack Linden: Next Q please!
[11:17]  Driftwood Miles: Qie Niangao: Jack, can you shed any light on what happens with the 16 & 17 year olds? Will they be a separate account type, restricted to only General-maturity land and content, or will they have access to Mature, too? If a separate account type, will other residents be able to distinguish them?
[11:17]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Don’t worry… Uncle Lumpylap is on standby with his finger hovering over the IM button. (^_^)
[11:17]  LisaDeanna Zhora: Agreed, Ciaran
[11:17]  Uni Ninetails: eww
[11:17]  Imnotgoing Sideways: My points exactly. (T_T)
[11:18]  Jack Linden: Qie, I actualy don’t think we fully know yet. We’ll certainly communicate more but this isn’t happening overnight so there will be time to discuss ahead of the actual shut off
[11:18]  Qie Niangao: Thanks Jack.
[11:18]  Jack Linden: Agreed that we have to get it right
[11:18]  Driftwood Miles: Uni Ninetails: [11:14] Uni Ninetails: Jack i beleive Latif made a comment on this during NDA.. Why not have it default to show both? instead of currently showing displayname only.
[11:18]  Jack Linden: Ah, well.. that is a switch we could make but here is the reason we didn’t..
[11:19]  Jack Linden: Our view was that we should lean towards it being a personal choice for how you are seen by others rather than defaulting to show username too… so..
[11:20]  Jack Linden: if we defaulted to show both then those with strong identity in their display names, like brands or roleplayers, would always be seen with two names
[11:20]  Jack Linden: we’d rather the default be one name, but give the choice to the viewer to see both if they want to
[11:20]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Remember everyone… Week 1, set your names to “Sparticus”. =^-^=
[11:20]  Driftwood Miles: lol Immy
[11:20]  Alexxa Despres: LOL
[11:21]  Vanity Bonetto: So I can rename myself to … lets say …. Delby Linden ?
[11:21]  Jack Linden: ..and yes, if we went live with it it’ll be a little crazed for the few weeks as people have fun with it but then i expect it to really settle down
[11:21]  Jack Linden:
[11:21]  LisaDeanna Zhora: Isnt’t it sort of, umm, well.. the profile to that same person will alway be the same, yes? So if I used, let’s say.. Grandaddy Big Nose.. and they looked at my profile. They will see what (this name) has, yes?
[11:21]  Imnotgoing Sideways alread had fun with Second Life™ names. =^-^=
[11:21]  Marielle Caerndow: Maybe this is exactly what people with a high peutation want: beeing identified as who they are at the first look (by having everybody seeing their display- AND user name by default)
[11:21]  Marielle Caerndow: ^reputation
[11:21]  Jumpman Lane: qie whats poppin
[11:21]  Vanity Bonetto: Jack don’t you think there was a good reason why Linden Lab never allowed people to choose LINDEN as their name ? to prevent fraud and grief ?
[11:22]  Jack Linden: next Q please!
[11:22]  Driftwood Miles: Alexxa Despres: Jack, the spoof names seem more trouble than its worth…it’s going to be very difficult for accounting purposes, to work out who you are talking to, to recognize customers…etc…..why in the world are you making it harder? I thought this was supposed to move towards: FAST…FUN…EASY ?
[11:22]  Chaley May: Questions go to Driftwood or he wont answer
[11:22]  Jumpman Lane: whats peutation mean?
[11:23]  Jumpman Lane: thtas for marielle
[11:23]  Jack Linden: they are not ‘spoof’ Alexxa, unless someone chooses to do spoof stuff with them. You will always be able to search on both and see both in places like the hovertext and profiles, people picker, etc.
[11:23]  Imnotgoing Sideways: /slapping/sl
[11:23]  Jumpman Lane: lol
[11:24]  Imnotgoing Sideways: =^-^=
[11:24]  Jack Linden: Yes it’ll be a bit jarring at first because we’ve been used to a single id that serves two very different purposes.. but we do need to break them apart
[11:24]  Marielle Caerndow: i meant ‘reputation’…shop owners, well know people etc. they’d prefer that everybody instantly can identify them as the ‘true’ person.
[11:24]  Driftwood Miles: Vanity Bonetto: @ Jack: Let’s say someone is creating an avatar with the name of an estate owner, entering some of his sims and asking all tenants to leave the sims today because the company is closing tomorrow. Lets say only a few of them follow this grief and the estate is losing 50’000 L. Will the Abuse Team refund the money ?
[11:24]  Jumpman Lane: cand i be Stroker Serpentine?
[11:25]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Are you sure you wanna hurt your avatar in that way? (^_^)
[11:25]  Jumpman Lane: i was fake smoking cigs can someone fill me in on where the fake spoof names would be used
[11:25]  Samantha Glume: Just charge 100L$ to change the name and you stop nearly all of the abuse…
[11:25]  LisaDeanna Zhora: Great question Vanity
[11:25]  Jumpman Lane: i sure dont imz hehehehehe
[11:25]  Jumpman Lane: Jumpy’s famous
[11:26]  Jack Linden: Vanity, we have that scenario now – using hovertext boxes. So yes, it’s possible people will try to do that just as sometimes they try other negative actions. Most estates don’t use that as a payment method but we understand it’s a worry. Hence the tools and constraints. There is also another part of this feature..
[11:26]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Chicka chicka yeaaaaah!
[11:26]  Jumpman Lane: infamous too
[11:26]  Frigg’n Immy: And renamer scripts. (^_^)
[11:26]  Vanity Bonetto: it is not about payment methods jack
[11:26]  Jack Linden: ..there will be an option in the Prefs to show folks who are on your friends list, regardless of their name choice, in a different colour
[11:26]  Jumpman Lane: LL deavtivated a few of my fav Jumpman alts
[11:26]  Jack Linden: So you’ll be able to see friends shown differently if you want to
[11:26]  Chaley May: by charging for display names you make display names less useful to people too.. you take away their ability to express themseves and switch to a roleplay name when they need it
[11:27]  Jumpman Lane: i dont want to be called anything else i do see the allure of a display name?
[11:27]  Serra Anansi: I sure hope this isnt the new format for these meetings.. its like a really laggy text forum… kinda pointless
[11:27]  Vanity Bonetto: that is not a solution Jack and once the damage is done it is too late
[11:27]  Marielle Caerndow: @ Vanity: that’s why new residents should by default see both (user and display name). This way new residents ‘learn’ that there’s an important difference.
[11:27]  LisaDeanna Zhora: Agree Serra
[11:27]  Jumpman Lane: whoother than a griefer would want to use a diff name
[11:27]  Samantha Glume: Chaley, you can only change it once a week… so I think that is moot.
[11:27]  Uni Ninetails: Which i tried to ask Jack but got shot down. with the same response Latif got during NDA
[11:27]  Vanity Bonetto: my name is directly related to my business – like a trademark
[11:27]  Chaley May: only once a week?
[11:28]  Jumpman Lane: mine too were building a brand
[11:28]  Edde Edman is Offline
[11:28]  Jack Linden: *if* we see issues and have to change track we will. so we’d be very cautious about it to begin with
[11:28]  Jumpman Lane: i dont even use alts anymore since they are all linked to this account
[11:28]  Chaley May: then so charging 100L$ to change the name becoems moot too
[11:28]  Imnotgoing Sideways: My name… Heh… =^-^=
[11:28]  Driftwood Miles: Marielle Caerndow: Hi, here’s a question to Jack: –> Jack, can you tell us something about yesterday search update, the change (and what exactly changed) with the maturity settings ?
It seems many people are seeing problems now since their ‘moedrate’ places suddenly are indexed/show in search as ‘adult’.
[11:28]  Jumpman Lane: is too perfect too awesome and could u even think of a better one imz
[11:28]  Dennis Lagan: Jack, you always see the isues we mention you “well in advance” way after the damage is already done.
[11:29]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Somewhat… I have some really well named alts. (^_^)
[11:29]  Edde Edman is Online
[11:29]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Latest one, “Chevy Luv”… Group tag, “I drive a”. (^_^)
[11:29]  Jumpman Lane: i ot one called breathecutta flow
[11:29]  Driftwood Miles: *six questions in line *
[11:29]  Jumpman Lane: and keyshop coker lmaO
[11:29]  Jumpman Lane: MY FAVE WAS Hoppy Inglewood
[11:29]  Jack Linden: Marielle, we pushed some fixes/changes but actually hit a problem around maturity and how listings came back so we rolled back part of the update. So things should settle back again. We have a fix to the problem and so will be looking to push again in a week or two.
[11:29]  Jumpman Lane: that just cracks me up
[11:30]  Imnotgoing Sideways: =^-^=
[11:30]  Jack Linden: Next Q please!
[11:30]  Driftwood Miles: Serra Anansi: Question for Jack: is this meeting format a trial or the way he wants to run things from now on?
[11:30]  Marielle Caerndow: So the search results will show wrong ratings till the next seach update ?
[11:30]  Jumpman Lane: i dont use viewer 2 does it have search modes like google
[11:30]  Jumpman Lane: u know safe mode etc etc
[11:31]  Imnotgoing Sideways: I’ll still suggest the queue microphone like Soc used to use. (^_^)
[11:31]  Jumpman Lane: yup like zara had hehehe
[11:31]  Jack Linden: Serra, yes. I had a bunch of feedback that I was somehow choosing which things i answer, and some folks feel ignored. So I wanted to try this way and let a resident help me (so I don’t just miss key Qs)
[11:31]  Jumpman Lane: well they shared it
[11:31]  Jack Linden: You guys can let me know at the end whether it is better or worse
[11:31]  Jumpman Lane: need a record of that lol
[11:31]  Jumpman Lane: now we wont know what u choose to ignore
[11:31]  Driftwood Miles: [11:23] LisaDeanna Zhora: Isnt’t it sort of, umm, well.. the profile to that same person will alway be the same, yes? So if I used, let’s say.. Grandaddy Big Nose.. and they looked at my profile. They will see what (this name) has, yes?
[11:31]  Jumpman Lane: spin
[11:31]  Jumpman Lane: soft peddle etc
[11:31]  Khamon Fate: Funneling questions through a source is a tried and true mechanism developed at Stage 4 when I was just a baby khamon
[11:32]  Jumpman Lane: prob with that lisa is that my enemies copy my profile
[11:32]  Jumpman Lane: Jumpman Littleboots is NOT me
[11:32]  Jumpman Lane: for example
[11:32]  Jumpman Lane: but now people might thik it is
[11:32]  Jumpman Lane: like theyve done on twitter
[11:32]  Jumpman Lane: fake jumpman lane accounts
[11:32]  Jumpman Lane: and flickr
[11:32]  Jack Linden: LisaSeanna, yeah. The username is the ‘trusted’ unique name. So that won’t change and no-one can have a username that is the same or the same without the period. So there can be only one person with the username ‘jack.linden’ and no-one can create a username of ‘jacklinden’ either
[11:33]  Jumpman Lane: i just dont see the allure of vanity display names
[11:33]  LisaDeanna Zhora: the idea is , it takes time to change things in your profile.. so its pretty stupid to me
[11:33]  Jack Linden: The profile will show both and you can see both if you choose to switch that on
[11:33]  Qie Niangao: Jumpy, it’s the price of fame. That and the paparzzi.
[11:33]  Jumpman Lane: well hell i def dont want to be Jumpman.Lane
[11:33]  Driftwood Miles: Weekon Thursday: Here’s my question to jack –> Is it technically possible to prevent people using others usernames as display names or not? I’m sure we’d all prefer to know if the reason its not being done is it can’t be done, or you don’t know how to yet.
[11:33]  Jumpman Lane: im in the midst of registering it
[11:33]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Actually.. It’ll be forced lower case too. (._.)
[11:34]  Jumpman Lane: hence the ™ in lots of places
[11:34]  Imnotgoing Sideways: All that care I put into capitalizing my first name… Lost. (T_T)
[11:34]  Jumpman Lane: sounds like LL could be focusing on other things
[11:34]  Jumpman Lane: i mean does ANYBODY want a vanity display name
[11:34]  Imnotgoing Sideways covers her cleavage. (o.o)
[11:34]  Vanity Bonetto: GRRRRRR
[11:34]  Jumpman Lane: rpers prob dondt
[11:35]  Jack Linden: Weekon, yes it is technically possible but kinda destroys the key advantage of the feature. Consider that we have 20 million account names already used. And we’ve used the top 2000 common surnames. If your first name is John, you would find it almost impossible to find a name that hasn’t already been locked
[11:35]  Jumpman Lane: i like vainty bonetto hehehehehe sounds like a mafia princess
[11:35]  Jack Linden: The fact is, there are multiple John Smiths and it’s reasonable that they can be seen as John Smith
[11:35]  Driftwood Miles: mmmmmm John Smiths
[11:35]  Vanity Bonetto: it IS a mafia princess and you walk on thin ice right now … I am armed and pissed
[11:35]  Imnotgoing Sideways eeps. (o.o)
[11:36]  Jumpman Lane: gal im combustible!
[11:36]  Bronson Blackadder stops staring at imnotgoing sideways cleavage
[11:36]  Jumpman Lane: u must not know who i am
[11:36]  Imnotgoing Sideways: ?~??~?~(O,O)
[11:36]  Liisa Runo: so all John Smiths can use the new easy AR feature to AR each others and they all get banned
[11:36]  Driftwood Miles: Drongle McMahon: Will ARs automatically go in with the username even if the reporter can’t see it? And how will that work with duplicate display names?
[11:36]  Qie Niangao: that’s *Agent* Smith to you, Drift
[11:36]  Jumpman Lane: now what if i went around displayin my self as John Lane
[11:36]  Driftwood Miles: LOL Qie )
[11:36]  Jumpman Lane: then u ‘
[11:36]  LisaDeanna Zhora: Alright. So, when you do one of these names, let’s say LisaDeanna here… my profile will go poof when I make another “ID” and fill that profile out with what ever info. Then whenI change back to LisaDeanna. It’s all back ? My head hurts!
[11:36]  Jumpman Lane: couldnt even be warned abount meh
[11:36]  Jack Linden: Drongle, we’d have username too so yes, we would know who was being ARed
[11:36]  sarah sissy: Thanks Jack, but what happened to first come, first served? And what about all those names that are completely unique?
[11:36]  Jumpman Lane: sounds like a muddle which linden dreamt this oneup
[11:37]  Driftwood Miles: Uni Ninetails: Jack, perhaps a solution. estate control on Name visibility. estate owner may not wish people to disguise the user name. I -know- its in the profile and a few other places. but sometimes people do not look.
[11:37]  Immy’s Cleavage: We all know what people are looking at. (^_^)
[11:37]  Jumpman Lane: i told some ex lindens once that uif they worked for a REAL company they’d get fired for some of the stuff they dreamt up
[11:37]  Jumpman Lane: and poof
[11:37]  Jumpman Lane: they gone
[11:37]  Bronson Blackadder: ISprayFurniture Blackadder
[11:37]  Melody Regent: So since my name is Melody Regent, and I do not change it, noone else will ever be able to be Melody Regent (sorry waking up slowly). For me, you can tell it is very important to maintain my name since it is highly branded.
[11:38]  Jumpman Lane: exactly
[11:38]  Jack Linden: Uni.. that’s an interesting idea. Kinda like it. I’d wonder though at what that does to the user experience when how you are viewed changes dependng on where you are. But it’s an interesting thought
[11:38]  Vanity Bonetto: everybody can be Melody Regent now
[11:38]  Jumpman Lane: not only branding but for status too
[11:38]  Uni Ninetails: Well prolly be estates only i expect mainland would remain as is now.
[11:38]  Jumpman Lane: take lady dawson
[11:38]  Equinox Pinion: Jumpman…do you have a turn off button somewhere…if so…please let us know where
[11:38]  LisaDeanna Zhora: Mel, you have to typ eyour questiions to Drift in IM and then jack will answer them
[11:38]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Lawl ^-^
[11:38]  Jumpman Lane: dont sell nothing but she is practically special like briana caws only two or three dawsons even log on any more
[11:38]  Liisa Runo: [11:14] Imnotgoing Sideways: Will there be a new AR field for “mimiced” avatar name? (o.o)
[11:14] Jack Linden: Yeah, we’ll make ARing it easy
[11:38]  Jack Linden: Qs to Driftwood please
[11:39]  Jack Linden: Next Q please!
[11:39]  Driftwood Miles: Imnotgoing Sideways: What about the people who are paying the fee for “Vanity Names”? (O.o)
[11:39]  Melody Regent: It was a follow up to a current Q but ok
[11:39]  Jumpman Lane: now if i say fall dead equinox u’d think me rude
[11:39]  Jumpman Lane: but werent u rude first hehehehehe
[11:39]  Jumpman Lane: sell em something else linden lab i’
[11:39]  Jumpman Lane: i’d say
[11:40]  Jumpman Lane: sell em something they want or could use
[11:40]  Driftwood Miles: ** Opensource Obscure: hi there. thanks for your work today! … not really a question, but I would like to ask everybody here : I just took a video of this meeting (no chat or avatar names are shown) and if everybody is fine with this, I can publish it on youtube. **
[11:40]  Jack Linden: Imnotgoing, we’ll be talking to those folks. Vanity names (unique SL names) will of course continue to be their account names but custom surnames that people bought – we’ll need to look athow those are handled. there aren’t many of them (100 or so) and they are all, by design, clearly company names not real surnames
[11:40]  Jumpman Lane: or fix something
[11:40]  Jumpman Lane: u know
[11:40]  Jumpman Lane: do work
[11:40]  Bronson Blackadder: Opensource you have my blessing
[11:40]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Yeah, but, with the ability to just make up a name, won’t the vanity name system totally lose value? (O.o)
[11:41]  Jack Linden: Opensource.. I have no issue with a video but folks here should weigh in with how they feel about it
[11:41]  Driftwood Miles: ** 1 question in line
[11:41]  Jumpman Lane: how bout IsYaDaddy
[11:41]  Jumpman Lane: Jumpman IsYaDaddy
[11:41]  Alexxa Despres: NP, Open:)
[11:41]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Open… Be sure to zoom in on my cleavage at least once. =^-^=
[11:41]  Driftwood Miles: Drongle McMahon: Jack: Will object creator & owner entries in the edit dialog be Displayname or Username?
[11:41]  Jumpman Lane: i mean i dont even make new alts when they come out will cooler names than say lane
[11:41]  Bronson Blackadder looks at imnotgoing sideways cleavage again
[11:41]  Jack Linden: Drongle, I believe it’ll show both.
[11:42]  Jumpman Lane: just dont see the allure
[11:42]  Marielle Caerndow: It should always show both in profiles/object infos
[11:42]  Driftwood Miles: Vanity Bonetto: @ Jack: what happens if someone changes his name ? will scripted objects like rental boxes, security systems and other items still recognize him ? or do we have to answer 100 times a day questions of our tenants why all the stuff does no longer work ?
[11:42]  Marielle Caerndow: Think Torley demonstrated it in his video
[11:42]  Jumpman Lane: im deeply invested in Jumpman Lane after all these years
[11:42]  Jumpman Lane: wtf would i call myself
[11:42]  Ciaran Laval: What’s the point in showing both? You can change your display name, it’s not a constant
[11:43]  Driftwood Miles: any more questions?
[11:43]  Jumpman Lane: why bother I AM Jumpman Lane
[11:43]  Jumpman Lane: people i dont know have heard of me
[11:43]  Jack Linden: Vanity, it’ll key on username so regardless of their Display Name it should know who they are. That’s my understanding. I’ll be sure to check with the engineers but I’m pretty sure that’s correct.
[11:43]  Jumpman Lane: they call that fame
[11:43]  Jumpman Lane: i mean Jump Lane
[11:43]  LisaDeanna Zhora: Yes we have jump.. and meet mute as well
[11:43]  Marielle Caerndow: We know that usernames never change, so showing both would assure,at the first look, who’s items it is.
[11:43]  Jumpman Lane: if i could spell it like that
[11:43]  Jumpman Lane: or Jumpy Lane
[11:43]  Jumpman Lane: but lowercases
[11:43]  Jumpman Lane: no way
[11:43]  Samantha Glume: There will be several new LSL commands available for findings names from one to the other etc.
[11:43]  Driftwood Miles: LisaDeanna Zhora: $@ Jack. Why isn’t Linden Labs FIXING things from 3yrs ago, bugs, jira’s. But yet they are adding more “garbage” to the code, like this, and not taking things off the jira to fix instead?
[11:44]  LisaDeanna Zhora: some of us are trying to read logical things
[11:44]  Jumpman Lane: naw if i said see here turd ball reach up and flush ur self
[11:44]  Driftwood Miles: that is the last question I have
[11:44]  Jumpman Lane: u’d swear i was being impolite
[11:44]  Jumpman Lane: but werent u impolite first hehehehe
[11:44]  Jumpman Lane: and that actually is a good point lisa
[11:44]  Bronson Blackadder thinks jumpman is prokofys alt
[11:45]  Jumpman Lane: prok and i were pals for a year
[11:45]  Jumpman Lane: best landlord i ever had
[11:45]  Melody Regent: not smart enough Bronson
[11:45]  Jack Linden: Lisadeanna, this has been one of the most requested features over the years. So though it isn’t ‘fixing a bug’, it is fixing a part of the experience that for many people is frustrating. we lose, literally, hundreds of thousands of people from our signup flow each year at the name selection stage.
[11:45]  Jumpman Lane: all i said to HIM was chill out chix dig me and prok went monkey ape crqap after that
[11:45]  Jack Linden: We want to address that. Almost every other service breaks apart the login id and how you are seen
[11:45]  Samantha Glume: All about Display names: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Display_Names
[11:46]  Jumpman Lane: im not contrarian i love LL
[11:46]  Driftwood Miles: Liisa Runo: [11:14] Imnotgoing Sideways: Will there be a new AR field for “mimiced” avatar name? (o.o)
[11:14] Jack Linden: Yeah, we’ll make ARing it easy
Question: instead of making AR easy. could we just automatically prevent people making display names that are already someone’s login name. So people dont accidentally put taken display name and get AR for doing so?
[11:46]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Worst I ever did was say “Hi, Carl told me about the update. Nice place you got here!” and I got flat-out BAAAAANED! DX
[11:46]  Samantha Glume: And the bit on Scripting: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Display_Names#Will_Display_Names_affect_scripts_I_have_created_or_bought.3F
[11:46]  Jumpman Lane: if i can add Jump Lane and Jumpy Lane spelt like that i would buy em
[11:47]  Jumpman Lane: well what if i wanted Jump Lane and somebody else already had bought it
[11:47]  Jack Linden: I think I addressed the blocking of Display Names ever being a used username. That would stop most people finding a Display Name they can use and would definitely stop anyone using their real name as we’ve almost certainly already used it as a username
[11:47]  Jumpman Lane: and just IMAGINE the heck Prokofy Neva would actuually go through
[11:47]  Jumpman Lane: i’d imagine prok might like prok neva
[11:47]  Samantha Glume: And if you want the really detailed LSL meat on the Display Names: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Display_Names/LSL
[11:47]  Romaha Oskar: hi
[11:48]  Bronson Blackadder: Pro Coffee Neva
[11:48]  Jumpman Lane: H0W would u sell vanity names if they were already sold
[11:48]  Liisa Runo: … so thre will be AR’s then
[11:48]  Jumpman Lane: sure prok likes the ol java
[11:48]  Jack Linden: next Q please!
[11:48]  Driftwood Miles: Chaley May: Will you ever make it possible to have 2 seperate usernames so that people can maintain 2 seperate identities on one account.. Some people really need to be able to seperate business from leisure so are forced to make multiple accounts.
[11:48]  Jumpman Lane: soft peddle
[11:49]  Jumpman Lane: i dont ant one a vanity name and i dont want anybody tripsin around the grid as my nicknames neither
[11:49]  Jumpman Lane: so what am i to do
[11:49]  Romaha Oskar: wo shop???
[11:49]  Jack Linden: Chaley.. nice idea. I woiuld say that this feature definitely takes us a step closer to that.. a single username login but multiple accounts within it. But that’s a way off yet in our thinking.
[11:49]  Jumpman Lane: i thought they called those alts?
[11:49]  Chaley May: it feels like a step further to me
[11:49]  Imnotgoing Sideways: I know I have a few. =^-^=
[11:50]  Jack Linden: Okay, so we have 10 mins left and i want to ask folks how they feel about this way to run the meeting.
[11:50]  Jumpman Lane: and logging in multiples
[11:50]  LisaDeanna Zhora: it sucks
[11:50]  Alexxa Despres: <<<votes no
[11:50]  Jumpman Lane: u link accounts aready for alt abuse
[11:50]  Jack Linden: Please do all give thanks to Driftwood for his awesome help
[11:50]  Jack Linden: Thanks Drift!
[11:50]  Imnotgoing Sideways plays the broken recrod about the queue mic. =^-^=
[11:50]  Equinox Pinion: thanks drift!!!
[11:50]  Jumpman Lane: i say fix something thats actually brokken
[11:50]  Ciaran Laval: Killed any discussion Jack
[11:50]  Qie Niangao: Thanks indeed, Drift!
[11:50]  Driftwood Miles: puts my hat on the deck
[11:50]  Driftwood Miles: alms for the poor
[11:50]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Thankies Drift!!! XD
[11:50]  Equinox Pinion: LOL!!
[11:50]  Alexxa Despres: LOL
[11:50]  Khamon Fate: Thank You Drift
[11:50]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Arigatou <Thank You> (^_^)
[11:50]  LisaDeanna Zhora: Yes, Thank you Drift, well done!
[11:50]  Samantha Glume: I liked it, nothing got missed. The contstant unrelated chatter from some people really gets annoying though.
[11:50]  Marielle Caerndow: better
[11:50]  Alexxa Despres: Thanks Drift
[11:50]  Samantha Glume: Thank you Drift
[11:50]  Driftwood Miles: pleasure
[11:50]  Drongle McMahon: Not much fun
[11:50]  Khamon Fate: and Thank You Jack for hosting
[11:50]  Jayson Dorn: it’s better Jack but I thint it would be better to take follow up questions on a topic before you move to the next topic
[11:50]  Jumpman Lane: my points are valid
[11:50]  Uni Ninetails: Drifts doing a grea job but youd be faster having people slap questions on the WIKI before a meeting and during. All you gotta ois refresh it during.
[11:51]  Jumpman Lane: not all ideas are good
[11:51]  Jack Linden: So you guys still prefer the ‘open warfare’ model of lively debate we normally have?
[11:51]  Romaha Oskar: ??? ????!!!!
[11:51]  Imnotgoing Sideways: ?
[11:51]  Drongle McMahon: Uni is right
[11:51]  Jumpman Lane: this vanity name thing aint one
[11:51]  Bronson Blackadder: lol open warfare
[11:51]  Khamon Fate: I vote for the funnel.
[11:51]  Imnotgoing Sideways: CHOCOLATE!!!!!!
[11:51]  Ciaran Laval: Does Alexxa get commission for allowing Drift to work for Jack?
[11:51]  Alexxa Despres: I prefer open dialogue… yes
[11:51]  Jumpman Lane: i love ll and side with them whenthey are right and doin good
[11:51]  Melody Regent: Yes, the other way is better, this doesnt allow direct follow up
[11:51]  Jumpman Lane: but they gonna hear it whenthey r messing up
[11:51]  Qie Niangao: Actually, yeah, maybe next week try Nyx’s wiki-agenda thing?
[11:51]  Vanity Bonetto: and it would be great to ask the one who originally asked a question if his question is answered before you walk to the next one
[11:51]  Chaley May: i think you need a mix of having someo0ne organise questions but you need to be more open to receiving response to what you say
[11:51]  Serra Anansi: there are more than just the two styles of meetings.. slapping on the shackles isnt really a fair wait o force us to agree the old way is better
[11:51]  Jumpman Lane: THAT is a discourswe
[11:52]  Jayson Dorn: the way it was was terrible
[11:52]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Melody… I was able to follow up… Maybe it’s just my typing speed. (._.)
[11:52]  Bronson Blackadder: an agenda thing would work a treat Jack
[11:52]  Uni Ninetails: Yeah Nyx even ~ at me last time i suggested it to ya Jack ^^
[11:52]  Jumpman Lane: hehehi used to be at oh’s with prok and boy did u have to learn to type fast lmao
[11:52]  Driftwood Miles: there were only really three max four topics discussed
[11:52]  Jack Linden: hmm okay. it’s pretty tough for me to see all the Qs normally because i’m typing replies. and that means that I miss stuff.
[11:52]  Imnotgoing Sideways: They’re hot topics. (^_^)
[11:52]  Drongle McMahon: Agenda … then just put the answers on the wiki, then you don’t need the meeting!
[11:52]  Bronson Blackadder: when you get fed up with a question repeatedly asked that you cant answer you can just jump to the next question
[11:52]  Imnotgoing Sideways: And, no, not the Emo store. (^_^)
[11:52]  Jumpman Lane: get a microphone
[11:53]  Bronson Blackadder: works great
[11:53]  Uni Ninetails: An agenda give you a chance to read ahead of time Jack
[11:53]  LisaDeanna Zhora: I dont think a “hadicaap” has ANYthing to do with it Immy. Some are just waking up and some dont type as fast as others. Well known Fact. You should know this!
[11:53]  Imnotgoing Sideways: =^o^=
[11:53]  Imnotgoing Sideways: I almost always win at Name That Tune. (^_^)
[11:53]  Khamon Fate: How bout this Jack, it’s your meeting, run it as you please and we’ll STFU or host our own office hours yeah?
[11:53]  Jack Linden: Uni, how would you guys add itenms to an agenda?
[11:53]  Jumpman Lane: silly imz u should know this hehehehe
[11:53]  Jumpman Lane: theyre sleepy not tards
[11:53]  Jack Linden: Haha Khamon.. you are a delight. So funny
[11:54]  Imnotgoing Sideways screams & drops dead!
[11:54]  Uni Ninetails: Ask Nyx how it works i dunno i log into wiki and slap a question down
[11:54]  Jayson Dorn: Everybody shouting questions at once is terrible idea
[11:54]  Jumpman Lane: get a microphone
[11:54]  Driftwood Miles: Jack would not you on voice help?
[11:54]  Chaley May: I think what would be best is to have somewhere we can all post our questions to and then we can also read what others ask and not duplicate
[11:54]  Driftwood Miles: as Jump suggests
[11:54]  Bronson Blackadder: Nyxs wiki page allows people to post items in it
[11:54]  Jumpman Lane: a microphone li so-crates had
[11:54]  Uni Ninetails nods at Bronson
[11:54]  Liisa Runo: future feature in 3rd party client: Automatically search for display names and AR when someone uses your login name as display name.
[11:54]  Jumpman Lane: they had orderly oh’s
[11:54]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Ah.. Not voice mic… Queue mic. (._.)
[11:54]  Khamon Fate: A wiki agenda won’t be readily available to someone who’s not worked with one before.
[11:54]  Jumpman Lane: yup
[11:54]  Jack Linden: Uni, I’d just worry about having 200 Qs slapped in there and having no discussion at all because i’m copy/pasting the answers in
[11:54]  Uni Ninetails ducks tiny rockets fired from tiny robots
[11:54]  Jumpman Lane: queue
[11:55]  Melody Regent: These meetings in voice is a bad idea since soo many read the after of them
[11:55]  Opensource Obscure: ** Here is today’s video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMV-n6Evdec
[11:55]  Driftwood Miles: good point
[11:55]  Uni Ninetails: Jack: true you do get more flow than Nyx… but its worth considering
[11:55]  Adamburp Adamczyk: hi jack
[11:55]  Imnotgoing Sideways: I like the word “Queue” because it has an extra “ue” in it. (^_^)
[11:55]  Jack Linden: Melody, what if someone was transposing the voice answers into text at the same time?
[11:55]  Jumpman Lane: im impartial to ue
[11:55]  Driftwood Miles: and its free immy!
[11:55]  Imnotgoing Sideways: \(^_^)/
[11:55]  Jumpman Lane: remeber chADRICK LINDEN
[11:56]  Jumpman Lane: he KNEW HOW TO HOLD A FREEFORM MEETIN
[11:56]  Chaley May: i hate voice meetings.. i cant understand people so well in voice
[11:56]  Bronson Blackadder: Right Freaking On!! Im a movie star!
[11:56]  Jumpman Lane: with prok in it lmao
[11:56]  Bronson Blackadder: thanks OO
[11:56]  Jumpman Lane: it can be done
[11:56]  Melody Regent: Personally I think these meetings need to be in type only.
[11:56]  Jumpman Lane: exactly melody
[11:56]  Jumpman Lane: so there is a record
[11:56]  LisaDeanna Zhora: I agree Mel
[11:56]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Truly… I don’t turn on voice to even listen. (._.)
[11:56]  Jumpman Lane: christ i do sound like prok i apologize jack
[11:56]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Oh, not even close. (^_^)
[11:56]  Jumpman Lane: but we do like to print these things sometimes
[11:56]  Bronson Blackadder: but yeah Jack the agenda thing works far smoother
[11:57]  Serra Anansi: maybe set up a voting page where people have a choice of 4 topics or can put in one they want to cover… the winning topic gets that weeks meeting
[11:57]  Khamon Fate: Chadrick could out-multitask the lot of us. It was a special skill he had.
[11:57]  Bronson Blackadder: any questions you dont get to just get bumped up the list for the next meeting
[11:57]  Jumpman Lane: i only use voice for cybering lol
[11:57]  Serra Anansi: that way there is a conversation
[11:57]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Chicka chicka yeaaaaah!
[11:57]  Khamon Fate: got him in trouble once or twice it did
[11:57]  Liisa Runo: voice was dead before it was born, only people who are on coke are using voice. Since they dont care to listen, only talk on top of each others
[11:57]  Jumpman Lane: people say io sound like a hick
[11:57]  Serra Anansi: and not pin the question on Jacks behind
[11:57]  Chaley May: i think all we need is a good bot/script to handle questions
[11:57]  Melody Regent: So really fast with those here, who thinks these should be OPEN meetings? Who thinks FUNNELED meetings (like drift did)
[11:57]  Melody Regent: OPEN for me
[11:58]  LisaDeanna Zhora: OPEN
[11:58]  Driftwood Miles: mixed for me
[11:58]  Alexxa Despres: OPEN
[11:58]  Khamon Fate: FUNNEL
[11:58]  Uni Ninetails: Mix it up
[11:58]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Naked. =^-^=
[11:58]  Jumpman Lane: but im a virginian and mmost or ur presidents and even them pesky confederates like bobby lee and jeb stuart talked JUST LIKE ME hehehehehe
[11:58]  Opensource Obscure: funnel
[11:58]  Driftwood Miles: LOL Immy
[11:58]  Bronson Blackadder: oh why not just do a meddly
[11:58]  Ciaran Laval: Open with maybe an agenda to direct hot topics that will likely be discussed
[11:58]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Don’t ask what I’ll use the funnel for. =^-^=
[11:58]  Bronson Blackadder: voice… funnel chaos theory
[11:58]  Bronson Blackadder: lol
[11:58]  Khamon Fate: I believe a MOTD questionnaire is in order.
[11:58]  Marielle Caerndow: I’m leaving. Thank you for the meeting, Jack. And a good time for everybody here *waves*
[11:58]  Jumpman Lane: open
[11:58]  Khamon Fate: ha ha ha ha ha
[11:58]  Opensource Obscure: agenda is fine as well, let’s test it. but harder to realize maybe
[11:59]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Could always virtualize it. (^_^0
[11:59]  Opensource Obscure: i mean an up-to-date meaningful agenda
[11:59]  Jack Linden: okays. so no concensus really. awesome.
[11:59]  Jumpman Lane: naw like those scripting tards
[11:59]  Chaley May: voice feels very anti discussion.. most situations voice is used i see the domination is pretty much by 2 people and everyone else ignores.. cant handle too many conversations at once in voice
[11:59]  Uni Ninetails: lol
[11:59]  Imnotgoing Sideways: \(^_^)/
[11:59]  Jumpman Lane: nobody expects a linden to tell it all anyways
[11:59]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Alrighty…. Lunch is over for this crud… I gotta go. =^-^+
[11:59]  Jumpman Lane: people expectto be ignored
[11:59]  Khamon Fate: Yes make people upload question textures and post them on signs then script them to float in a line
[11:59]  Imnotgoing Sideways: Bai you guyz! Xd
[11:59]  Jumpman Lane: cya imz
[11:59]  Jack Linden: okies, well, I have to run.. thanks guys, thanks Driftwood!
[11:59]  Bronson Blackadder: people add things to nyxs agenda usually within minutes before Nyxs OH
[11:59]  sarah sissy: Only consensus I can see is people not wanting their usernames available as display names for others to use (:
[11:59]  Jack Linden: See you all next week i hope
[11:59]  Melody Regent: 5 open so far and 2 Mixed and 2 funnel
[11:59]  Samantha Glume waves
[12:00]  Dennis Lagan: i liked it this way, but you never know ofcoruse if drift only posted the questions that match his secret agenda.
[12:00]  Driftwood Miles: how about 30 minutes funnel and 30 minutes full scale war as a reposte’
[12:00]  Jumpman Lane: yus my boss is off every thur hehehehehehe
[12:00]  Jumpman Lane: i can do what i wanna do
[12:00]  Khamon Fate: The problem with voice is that people do talk at the same time and we end up missing several words because the system isn’t broadcasting anyone
[12:00]  LisaDeanna Zhora: and thats not a consensus mel.. thats a linden being blind me thinks lol
[12:00]  Driftwood Miles: Did anyone ask me a question that was not posted?
[12:00]  Jack Linden: the irony hereis that despite controlling the Qs, drift failed to ask me for megasims
[12:00]  Uni Ninetails: thanks Jack best be getting back to work
[12:00]  Khamon Fate: then of course there’s no postable record of what was said
[12:00]  Ardy Lay: Hehe
[12:00]  Bronson Blackadder: lol
[12:00]  Bronson Blackadder: lol
[12:00]  Bronson Blackadder: lol
[12:01]  Samantha Glume shouts: and 16m2!
[12:01]  Bronson Blackadder: oh wait
[12:01]  Jumpman Lane: im goin to smoke another cigerrette lmao
[12:01]  Khamon Fate: WE WANT MEGASIMS
[12:01]  Bronson Blackadder: microparcels
[12:01]  Driftwood Miles: yes I know Jack damn you!!
[12:01]  Jack Linden: finally a way to silence driftwood through making him too busy.
[12:01]  Bronson Blackadder: what about them damnitol
[12:01]  Jack Linden: bwah hah ha
[12:01]  Driftwood Miles: P
[12:01]  Alexxa Despres: LOL
[12:01]  Jack Linden: okay must run.. cheers guys!!
[12:01]  Khamon Fate: MEGAMEGAMEGASIMS
[12:01]  Samantha Glume waves
[12:01]  Opensource Obscure: and a megagrid
[12:01]  Alexxa Despres: Bye Jack….thanks
[12:01]  Qie Niangao: thanks Jack
[12:01]  LisaDeanna Zhora: thanks jack, for umm… well, thanks fo showing up
[12:01]  Khamon Fate: That’s gonna be my display name MEGASIMS
[12:01]  LisaDeanna Zhora: missed
[12:01]  Driftwood Miles: That was polite Dennis
[12:01]  Jumpman Lane: hey they havent fired blondin yet have they
[12:02]  Khamon Fate: see y’all
[12:02]  Samantha Glume: So long everyone. Nice meeting you all.

[11:03]  Jack Linden: okays, apologies first of all for last week. Not only did we have some real grid outage but I was in a hotel lobby trying to get their wifi to work. In the end, I just couldn’t get here

[11:03]  Driftwood Miles: neither to Carlsberg…..but if they did…….

[11:03]  Jack Linden: So sorry for that

[11:03]  Master Kane: Its about being ejected from CiG and suspened for an hour!

[11:03]  Laddie Sutter has entered the sim.

[11:03]  Driftwood Miles: *do

[11:03]  Master Kane: wtf gives

[11:04]  Laddie Sutter slowly reses

[11:04]  Lady Sakai looks funny over at Drift

[11:04]  Jack Linden: Ah okays Master – I’d need to ask support about that

[11:04]  Morrigan Denimore is Offline

[11:04]  TheBlack Box: and now please an apology for letting go od Qarl Linden … while you are at apologizing for things you cant onfluence

[11:04]  Master Kane: there has been sevarl of us that have been ejected for less things that what goes on in there

[11:04]  Cummere Mayo: god im tired of dealign with support

[11:04]  Nema Galicia: Master has been in time out a bit to long i wold think

[11:04]  Jack Linden: So quick Q.. anyone here going to slcc?

[11:04]  Driftwood Miles: P

[11:04]  Cummere Mayo: cant afford to

[11:04]  Lady Sakai: No Jack

[11:04]  Cummere Mayo: its too expesnive

[11:05]  Sammy Hermit: Any news on search Jack IE parcels being left out of it ??

[11:05]  Melody Regent: I am Jack, are you canceling your tip now?

[11:05]  Equinox Pinion: be happy i am not jack *g*

[11:05]  Melody Regent: trip*

[11:05]  S0phie Sautereau: you handing out tickets???

[11:05]  Jack Linden: Ha Melody.. no no, I still intend to go, all being well

[11:05]  Cummere Mayo: if i were going though LL wouldnt like it much

[11:05]  S0phie Sautereau: too expensive!

[11:05]  Nema Galicia: cant afford it now that I had to take out of my pocket so much for my sim

[11:05]  S0phie Sautereau: waive tier, and I can

[11:05]  Master Kane: we were going to go. and get tickets.. but…..

[11:05]  Lady Sakai: you gonna charter a plane for us Jack ?

[11:05]  Jack Linden: I wish Lady, that would be great fun

[11:06]  Cummere Mayo: id get in a fight with alexa if i went

[11:06]  Jack Linden: okays, well if folks do go.. and see me there, please do come up and say hi

[11:06]  Lady Sakai: hehe … or so you would hope, eh Jack

[11:06]  Uni Ninetails fed exs Jack some hockey pads and a goalie helmet

[11:06]  Uni Ninetails: Your gonna need those

[11:06]  Techwolf Lupindo: I can see it now. “Hi jack. *punch*”

[11:06]  Techwolf Lupindo:

[11:06]  Uni Ninetails: LOl

[11:06]  Cummere Mayo: jack if by soem miracle i could get the $300 between now and then to go…. you really sure you would want that?

[11:06]  Lady Sakai: mhm Uni … nice move lol

[11:07]  Cummere Mayo: no tech for me it would be *hi jack hi alexa* *slight metalic clicking sound*

[11:07]  Lady Sakai: you got balls of steel Jack lol

[11:07]  Jack Linden: sammy, to you point about search -we had another big update go out yesterday I believe. we’re continuing to fix and improve on a pretty rapid timeline. but we haven’t got to everything yet

[11:07]  Nema Galicia: ok Jack I want t know if we are not being forced into v2 then why does a blog say we have to have it to see search correctly?

[11:07]  Master Kane: I can see this now.. all of us be there and standing around JAck saying Hi and we have to call an ambulance for himn cause he cant breathe hehe

[11:07]  Jack Linden: Cummere.. of course! i’ve met a lot of residents over the years – it’s always been great

[11:07]  Zoha Boa: got land related keywords fixed ,

[11:07]  Sammy Hermit: ok ty Jack at lest thats some hope

[11:07]  Melody Regent: Jack, I would like to talk about the support lines issue. First, even during normal support hours it is hard to get a real Linden and when we get an InTyne, they still do not know what the hell they are doing. I only call help when I really need it because I cant figure it out or the residents cant help me. I know ten fold more than any ontyne I have ever spoken to. What are we going to do about the support not really being support?

[11:08]  Master Kane: OnTyne isnt it

[11:08]  Morrigan Denimore is Online

[11:08]  Melody Regent: On -In- DOrk… same thing

[11:08]  Master Kane: or do they have MORE now

[11:08]  Alliez Mysterio: Melody I totally agree with you

[11:08]  Master Kane: yah

[11:08]  Lady Sakai: OnTyne.. InTyne .. they stil dont know squat

[11:08]  Nema Galicia: and why are some of the OnTynes giving false information also?

[11:08]  Liisa Runo: Jack is not the support guy anymore. we need to contact Patch Linden for support related issues. And he dont have OH.

[11:08]  Master Kane: good point nema

[11:08]  Melody Regent: they give false info cause they dont have correct info

[11:08]  Jack Linden: Nema, well, it’s true that 1.23 is still supported but as with any product where previous versions exist, there will be features that end up in the current viewer but not re-factored into the old ones.

[11:08]  Zoha Boa: fi you ask for the status of a ticket you get as answer :” MAKE a NEW ticket”

[11:09]  Zoha Boa: to request the status of the other ticket

[11:09]  Alliez Mysterio: They leave me hanging

[11:09]  Nema Galicia: well Jack is in charge of keeppping us buying his produckt correct? how with this going on is it going to keep me here?

[11:09]  Jack Linden: That’s pretty normal. If we had to code every feature change back into the legacy codebase it would greatly slow us down

[11:09]  Alliez Mysterio: If LL wants to say money I say let them go

[11:09]  Alliez Mysterio: save*

[11:10]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Jack, this ties into the V2 question. Is V2 still behind most other viewers as far as usage?

[11:10]  Melody Regent: Give me three well paid, helpful Lindens over 50 underpaid, know squat OnTynes

[11:10]  Lady Sakai: Hell Jack Id do some hours of support for ya .. if tou cut my tier for me ?

[11:10]  Master Kane: Alliez.. you dont have 90,000 regions like someone else does.. so yah.. your out baby!

[11:10]  Lady Sakai: you’

[11:10]  Alliez Mysterio: yes

[11:10]  Alliez Mysterio: lol

[11:10]  Master Kane:

[11:11]  Alliez Mysterio: Lindnes are great when I get them

[11:11]  Cummere Mayo: ild do support for you if all my alts got promoted to premiums. *Shrugs*

[11:11]  Jack Linden: I’ve heard a fair bit about the support situation from residents. As I understand it that group will be talking publicly about the changes they are making in support. I know that along with the rest of the company, they are undergoing significant change.

[11:11]  Master Kane: yah i am planning to buy a shirt for 10L$ when I get enough lol

[11:11]  Jack Linden: So yeah, I (we) know that it’s a problem right now

[11:11]  Melody Regent: ITs been an issue for months Jack

[11:11]  Melody Regent: not just new

[11:12]  Lady Sakai: and its getting worse not better

[11:12]  Master Kane: Publicly? is that a RSVP too Jack??

[11:12]  Master Kane: like phils

[11:12]  Sonya Haight: http://secondlife.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_emMh3nkoLdumDR2 is a survey posted of all places on the grid status page, it even has a nifty blank you can type in what you think about “help”

[11:12]  Nema Galicia: transition changes are one thing but when one says CIG doesnt excist or that we havet o have v2 for them to restart our sims that is neglegiance

[11:12]  Zoha Boa: they aren’t FEF compatible, Fast, Easy and fun, they only let you WAIT and CRY

[11:12]  Jack Linden: master, what do you mean?

[11:12]  TheBlack Box: Jack, do you have any clue where the discision came from to let go of Qarl ? Noone i spoke to can make sense of it …

[11:12]  Cummere Mayo: if i get cussed out by one more ontyne, or disconnected by a certain one again im cancelling my memberships

[11:12]  Melody Regent: Jack, maybe you need to add the Ontynes to some of the groups, like CIG so they can read and listen to what the RESIDENTS say and actually learn something.

[11:13]  Nema Galicia: yes

[11:13]  Master Kane: [11:11] Jack Linden: I’ve heard a fair bit about the support situation from residents. As I understand it that group will be talking publicly about the changes they are

[11:13]  Cummere Mayo: which group?

[11:13]  Alliez Mysterio: Might be great idea to monitor them

[11:13]  Jack Linden: Nema, you don’t need viewer 2 for them to restart a region. That sounds like bad information.

[11:13]  S0phie Sautereau: Yes, Jack, hwat “group” will be speaking publicly, and will it be by invite only as Philip’s “visions speech” was?

[11:13]  Melody Regent: The residents are far more helpful 99% of the time but the 1% I need help I hate to be told…. Call back in 10 hours where there is a shift change

[11:13]  Cummere Mayo: jack, they say you need viewer two for anything

[11:13]  Nema Galicia: I know that but it was live chat that gave the bad information

[11:13]  Cummere Mayo: they wont even help you file a support ticket if you use 1.23

[11:14]  Cummere Mayo: and they wont support you if you use 1.23 or snowglobe

[11:14]  Nema Galicia: and one woman was told there was no official group like CIg, so I went and asked live chat

[11:14]  Nema Galicia: i got told to file a ticket

[11:14]  Cummere Mayo: even if the issue is clearly server side

[11:14]  Master Kane: which is bogus cummere because 1.23 IS a LL product

[11:14]  Jack Linden: Melody, I’m no longer in charge of that dept.. I moved away from owning that group early this year. So it’s tough for me to really comment on it directly other than to say that I do know that group is busy re-structuring itself right now

[11:14]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Which again, brings me back to my question….Is V2 still behind most other viewers as far as usage?

[11:14]  Master Kane: it isnt emerald or imprudence much less a 3rd party viewer

[11:14]  Liisa Runo: … and only 31 peopel in SL are using v2

[11:15]  Uni Ninetails: Jack youll have to forgive the melodrama here, but a couple of close friends who hold moderately large estate holdings after hearing about the Letting go of Qarl Linden (which was disgusting) on top of the support issues currently being discussed, and the general direction the lab seems to be taking. Are sayign “Bollocks to this” and considering pulling out. I still hold hope. Anything i can pass onto them to maybe assure them?

[11:15]  Lady Sakai: Liisa, you went around and counted them ? O.o

[11:15]  Liisa Runo: about Qarl: http://www.qarl.com/qLab/?p=64

[11:15]  Melody Regent: To whom do we speak about this issue Jack?

[11:15]  Jack Linden: master, to clarify, I believe support will be talking/blogging shortly on their plans and what is going on

[11:15]  Master Kane: Tell them to go for it UNi… I would

[11:16]  Master Kane: ah ok .. blogging.. gotcha.. thanks

[11:16]  Uni Ninetails: Master: trying to hold hope. but they already have a low rate Blue mars setup ready to fill.

[11:16]  Cummere Mayo: jack the best thing ll could do is fire the ontynes and let even volunteers take over support.

[11:16]  Sonya Haight: speaking of blogging, where is that tier blog Jack?

[11:16]  Alliez Mysterio: Well I hope live chat does not blog they will say I will be with you in a moment

[11:16]  Alexxa Despres: LOL

[11:16]  Master Kane: treu uni.. we are holding ut for hope too.. know that feeling

[11:16]  Nema Galicia: they will say filr a ticket alliez

[11:16]  Jack Linden: Cummere, I can see that they might not be able to help with 1.23 specific bugs, so in those cases the advice may well be to upgrade.

[11:16]  Cummere Mayo: residents dont like being cussed out by ontynes when we point them to a wiki page that contradicts what they told us

[11:16]  Jack Linden: Otherwise they should be able to support you

[11:17]  Master Kane: lol alliez

[11:17]  XLR8RRICK Hudson: Dont you see that LL wants you on V2 or 1.23 so they can support you better.

[11:17]  Cummere Mayo: nope jack, they tell us “you must be on viwer 2.0″

[11:17]  Alliez Mysterio: But I do file a ticket first to help them

[11:17]  Qie Niangao: Jack, you can’t talk of personnel / HR issues, but it’s true: the news about Qarl is very discouraging… LL Execs should be aware that this isn’t the kind of news that’s easily heard right now.

[11:17]  Alliez Mysterio: does not matter

[11:17]  Nema Galicia: I am on1.23 AND HAVE NO ISSIUES WITH IT

[11:17]  Sonya Haight: I believe the one Nema is talking about was a region down, 1.23 doesn’t really have anything to do with that

[11:17]  Nema Galicia: opps soorry about caps

[11:17]  Master Kane: and thats what they want.. everybody on v2.. what is SO important in v2 that isnt in the rest that LL is NOT telling us?

[11:17]  Alliez Mysterio: I use it all the time

[11:17]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: That is my question and my issue. If V2 is STILL behind the rest of the viewers in usage, don’t you think that also impacts support?

[11:17]  Uni Ninetails: An ontyne rep couldnt find their arse with a map and a flashlight if they werent given the accomanying flowchart.

[11:17]  Nema Galicia: rigth sonya

[11:17]  Cummere Mayo: even when i was trying to report the assett servers weregoing down, they hung up cause i told them i wasnt on 2.0

[11:18]  Nema Galicia: you whre in teh same chat

[11:18]  S0phie Sautereau: Master, they sunk tons of money into development, they need nubmers to show

[11:18]  Jack Linden: Uni, I’m not going to discuss individuals (I doubt you’d expect me to), but if you’re talking about how team changes impact a project – clearly we’ll manage teams and resources to best do the work we feel is important. So any personnel change there is no reflection on our stance re. Mesh, it’s just us managing our resources

[11:18]  Master Kane: and ohil even said.. that they bit off more than they can chew to and time to revamp things.. so KILL v2

[11:18]  Cummere Mayo: and when i pointed them to the wiki page that stated snowglobe and 1.23 WERE supported I got cussed out

[11:18]  Master Kane: and start over

[11:18]  Master Kane: phil*

[11:18]  Melody Regent: Jack, You told us many months ago we would know about it by the end of July, the tier pricing for next year. We are into August and still nothing. I can get you the meeting minutes where you said it, should that be needed.

[11:19]  Master Kane: its really easy

[11:19]  Uni Ninetails: I didnt mention anything about mesh. Its the contuning insanity of LL to fire the good guys.

[11:19]  Jack Linden: Qie, understood.. but I would ask that folks don’t read any project or technology implications into a change of personnel. The two are not connected.

[11:19]  Nema Galicia: you got cussed out? eyes widen

[11:19]  Qie Niangao: agreed, Jack.

[11:19]  Cummere Mayo: yes i did

[11:19]  Master Kane: fire the good guys until you get 3 year old bugs fixed jack.. is it that hard to figure out?

[11:20]  Master Kane: Hire US (all here) let us at it.. we will get things done LOL

[11:20]  Sonya Haight: darn would hate to see that mess

[11:20]  Jack Linden: Melody, no need.. I did say July and we missed. Which is sucky. Unfortunately the company went through substantial change in July as you know so things changed. We still do intend to make a statement on pricing etc as usual – we’re just running late.

[11:20]  Nema Galicia: see Jack it is things like that that make me think sl isnt worth it anymore,what is being done about retention

[11:20]  Cummere Mayo: and a friend got termianted becuase he told natasha after she hung up on several people trying to report a server malfunction, he was gonna try and get her fired

[11:20]  Jack Linden: As soon as I know more, we’ll be blogging about it

[11:20]  TheBlack Box: Jack .. that is only partially true isnt it ? at least with Andrew on C# and Qarl on Meshes … the personnel can be an important factor in the speed of development … no ?

[11:21]  Techwolf Lupindo: I”me a bit lost here, “ontynes”?

[11:21]  Takao Moriguchi: Good morning

[11:21]  Cummere Mayo: ontynes the idiots that run support live chat for non conceirge tech

[11:21]  Takao Moriguchi: ciao Alkanos

[11:21]  Uni Ninetails: tech: thank Dell technical support in hell

[11:21]  Master Kane: onynes are fake lindens that answer live chat tech

[11:21]  Uni Ninetails: *think

[11:21]  TheBlack Box: Babbage on C# i mean

[11:21]  Alkanos Smit: you are welcome takao  ツ

[11:21]  Master Kane: ontynes*

[11:21]  Master Kane: which ever

[11:21]  Lady Sakai: if yopu see them … RUN for your life

[11:21]  Takao Moriguchi: Thank you Alkanos and thank you for your help. You are allways very gentle.

[11:22]  Uni Ninetails: Lady: nah ive got a guard dog and a shotgun =^.^=

[11:22]  Cummere Mayo: most of which have been rude and arrogent know very little, and love to wield their power like corrupt cops

[11:22]  Laddie Sutter: woof woof ^.^

[11:22]  Master Kane: and not tomention that they come to you sim UNASKED and closed live caht.. they jkust POOF right in on ya

[11:22]  Lady Sakai: lol

[11:22]  Techwolf Lupindo: I have done phone tech support….are they hirning? (i’me getting that desperate now.)

[11:22]  Jack Linden: TheBlack, it’s true that some people have specific skills but no project hangs on the presence or involvement of one person (and if it did, we’d want to change that asap).

[11:22]  Master Kane: lol tech

[11:22]  Lady Sakai: Im right behind you Tech

[11:22]  Alliez Mysterio: And to copy chat with them it must be one line at a time but I sure do it and add it to ticket

[11:23]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Could support or ignoring someone because they aren’t using V2? Again, ties in with the usage of V2 still being behind most viewers?

[11:23]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: be*

[11:23]  Satir DeCuir is Online

[11:23]  Nema Galicia: v2 makes me rl dizzy cant use it

[11:23]  Jack Linden: Also, do remember that if you have a bad support interaction, you can and should appeal (there is an appeals ticket type if i recall), in which case a manager will review it

[11:23]  Master Kane: neither can I nema.. makes me sick

[11:23]  Cummere Mayo: noe they took out the appeals tickets jack

[11:24]  Cummere Mayo: even though documentations says they should be there

[11:24]  Master Kane: JACK listen to your residents.. v2 makes us physically SICK

[11:24]  Alliez Mysterio: wonder why?

[11:24]  Alkanos Smit: Jack later do u have a time for dedicate to takao and me for one ticket for nothing response?  ツ

[11:24]  Uni Ninetails: Appeals: long winded methodolgy of “can i speak to your supervisor *rolls eyes

[11:24]  Cummere Mayo: dont ask live chat about it either, they will simply hang up

[11:24]  XLR8RRICK Hudson: I have heard of Rude and Arrogant comments from others that have used Live Help. That should not be tolerated by LL.

[11:24]  Master Kane: or does that even matter

[11:24]  Cummere Mayo: and if you ask to speak to a supervisor they hang up

[11:24]  Nema Galicia: cofiddence in a ticket being looked at anymore is next to mothing

[11:24]  Melody Regent: Jack, if you cant make a deadline, instead of not saying anything at all and hoping it gets ignored it is better to simply adress it head on and say, Hey, I know we said this… but we are just not going to make the time we said but we will be attempting to fixing the issue as soon as possible. Its fine, we understand time frames being missed, however the amount of people talking about it and upset about one more things that we were told would happen is huge. Also, the rumors are off the hook. I personally have asked several people to not sell off yet, to give you all time to announce the plans. Being left in the dark is just as bad as someone telling you to eff off

[11:24]  Nema Galicia: better chance at winning the lottery

[11:24]  Master Kane: mh

[11:24]  Master Kane: m

[11:25]  Cummere Mayo: i finally lost it after being hung up on 4 times in a row and cussed out, and i cussed that ontyne back, and she banned me for an hour

[11:25]  XLR8RRICK Hudson: V2 makes my Blood Pressure rise and must stop trying to use it.

[11:25]  Master Kane: agreed melody

[11:25]  TheBlack Box: i ll head over to Yoz, before all seats are taken thanks Jack … laters

[11:25]  Uni Ninetails: Agreed also Melody

[11:25]  Nber Medici: I’ve tried using V2… honestly… but it is WAY laggy for me.

[11:25]  Master Kane: later tbb

[11:25]  Cummere Mayo: i knwo merchants that did thousands of dolalrs in SL that are pulling out becuase of natasha ontyne

[11:25]  Lady Sakai: Cummere, that is completely out of line

[11:25]  Uni Ninetails: wow

[11:26]  Jack Linden: understood Melody. If i actually knew we weren’t going to get an announcement out then I would say that. But that isn’t the case, we’re just late

[11:26]  Cummere Mayo: thousands of us dollars

[11:26]  Melody Regent: LOL< JAck you had to know on July 31st you were not going to make it

[11:26]  Khamon Fate: what’s a natasha ontyne?

[11:26]  Master Kane: late.. as some lose thewir asses

[11:26]  Melody Regent: We knew

[11:26]  Liisa Runo: Jack, could you tell Patch that he should start having office hours. As you see, we really want to talk about support stuff.

[11:26]  Nber Medici: Jack… regarding grandfathered Tier? Any timeline for an announcement?

[11:26]  Alliez Mysterio: live chat “helper”

[11:26]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Jack? I would think it would be important to know where V2 ranks on the viewer usage list, especially for support.

[11:27]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Not to mention the time and energy being spent on it.

[11:27]  Tempesta Arun: buonasera

[11:27]  Master Kane: true pink

[11:27]  Takao Moriguchi: Buonasera

[11:27]  Jack Linden: Liisa.. agreed it would be useful. My history at the Lab means that support is always a topic here but it’s really not my area any more.

[11:27]  Alkanos Smit: hello tempesta you are welcome  ツ

[11:27]  Cummere Mayo: jack may i ask which linden is in charge of support now?

[11:27]  Liisa Runo: Patch Linden

[11:27]  Nema Galicia: Patch it seems

[11:27]  Tempesta Arun: uso iltradutore ilm mio inglese fa skifo

[11:27]  Tempesta Arun: ilm iltradutore use my English is SKIF

[11:28]  Tempesta Arun: schifo

[11:28]  Tempesta Arun: “disgust disgust”,[["noun","disgust"]]

[11:28]  Master Kane: yeah which linden.. so we can leave you alone about it and go to them

[11:28]  Jack Linden: Nber (hey you!), no I don’t have a timeline for announcement. I was just saying earlier that we’re late (it should have been in July)

[11:28]  Nber Medici: OK Jack

[11:28]  Sonya Haight: Jack Alexa Linden posted “The team is also working to ensure that parcels paying to be in Search are not dropped. Please do report these to customer care. We *need* to know who it’s affecting in order to track progress.” If that is true why do they keep closing my ticket?

[11:28]  Uni Ninetails: tah Jack RE: tier thingy

[11:28]  Melody Regent: I am saying that if you knew you were going to be late, let everyone know that you have not forgotten, or are atalling or are trying to make residents leave… say you will get to it. Yes Jack, there are people out there, dropping sims because they truely feel that you are actively trying to run people off land so you dont have private estates compeating with you.

[11:28]  Jack Linden: Cummere, there are several senior folks in support.. Maurice Linden and Rountree Linden for example

[11:28]  Cummere Mayo: can you please ask one of them to hold an ermergancy set of office hours

[11:29]  Cummere Mayo: becuase it is no exageration support is getting to be a critical issue

[11:29]  Alliez Mysterio: That should help you also Jack, if they do

[11:29]  Master Kane: agreed again mel… i have that same feeling.. trying to get people to leave

[11:29]  Jack Linden: Sonya, i’m not sure of the situation re. your tickets. But we *do* want to know when cases of that come up. We know it’s rare and that makes it hard to catch

[11:29]  Sammy Hermit: Same here my tickets are closed to

[11:30]  Cummere Mayo: many of my tickets, even ones people like soft tell me to file get closed… or ignored

[11:30]  Jack Linden: Cummere, I will pass on that request but it’ll be their call of course.

[11:30]  Melody Regent: Yes, mine was closed and because of it, the sims I asked to be abandoned were not and I was charges

[11:30]  Sonya Haight: its not rare, mine has been that way since May 3rd, a sim full of parcels, and a few others also are in the same boat

[11:30]  Cummere Mayo: I realize that jack… but please stress that we’re upset

[11:30]  Sonya Haight: a few here i mean

[11:30]  S0phie Sautereau: Jack what they describe is NOT rare, and even in 2.0 JIRA, they act like insurance adjusters automatically “denying claims” outright iwhtout reading. It’s NOT rare.

[11:30]  Melody Regent: Cummere.. File a ticket

[11:30]  Melody Regent:

[11:30]  Master Kane: So.. Jack… this si NOW a resident RUN virtual world .. is it now? since lindens have fired 30% of staff and suspending people for well.. and people are being ran off so that the BIG land barons can have it all to themselves? is this the correct assumtion?

[11:31]  Cummere Mayo: i would say thats a safe assumption master

[11:31]  Master Kane: thats how I see it

[11:31]  S0phie Sautereau: the first “tier of help” is to DENY help…insurance company-style

[11:31]  Sonya Haight: btw mine was closed by an Ontyne the first time, not sure who closed it this last time but I left it closed, I give up

[11:31]  Sonya Haight: on tickets and search

[11:32]  Master Kane: so I am not the ONLY onew that thinks this… this is good

[11:32]  Sammy Hermit: same here that person closed my tickets too

[11:32]  Melody Regent: Alot of people see it that way Master. That LL is activly trying to get rid of Private estate owners except the huge ones

[11:32]  Cummere Mayo: master, some of the oldest land barons and merchants even agree

[11:32]  Jack Linden: Master, it’s certainly not.

[11:32]  S0phie Sautereau: Master, I have said the same thing and been chastised for it

[11:32]  Master Kane: hence.. they want it all to themselves

[11:32]  Qie Niangao: guessing: Ontynes get paid by # of tkts closed per hour.

[11:32]  Master Kane: lol Qie.. prolly so

[11:33]  Sonya Haight: seems like they’re trying to get rid of anyone trying to run a business Mel

[11:33]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I agree, Master and we have yet to have Delby here as we were told to discuss that bulk buying with reduced tier situation.

[11:33]  Nber Medici: Jack… What is the status of getting search fixed? Can you update us on that? Forgive me if you have already said.

[11:33]  Master Kane: agreed sonya

[11:33]  XLR8RRICK Hudson: Does seem like there is a NWO here in SL

[11:33]  Master Kane: they (Linden Labs) want the money all to their selves… not letting anyone else make a 1L$.. imho

[11:34]  Cummere Mayo: being cussed at when you point out to an ontyne what they are saying directly contradicts written policy and guidelines is simply not acceptable … having tickets closed that lindens tell us to file is not acceptable, being suspendedor banned for calling an ontyne out on it? thats just sucial business practice

[11:34]  Khamon Fate: I have ancient Anarchism T-shirts if anyone would like a copy “Vote ‘NO’ to resident run goverment!”

[11:34]  Khamon Fate: ha ha ha

[11:34]  Jack Linden: Nber, yeah we talked briefly about it.. we pushed a search update out yesterday – should be another blog update by the team shortly (if they haven’t already)

[11:34]  Master Kane: an ontyne cussed you out cummere?

[11:34]  Melody Regent: If we dont have a resident run government, we dont have help at all

[11:35]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Jack, you mentioned some weeks ago that V2 was behind other viewers as far as usage. I gave you a head’s up that I would ask again. I have asked that a few times here, tying it into the issues being discussed here. Is V2 STILL behind most other viewers as far as usage?

[11:35]  Nema Galicia: so Jack if i dont have v2 but the one before that shold i be able to see and use seach effectivly?

[11:35]  Master Kane: governemtn mel is the key word… it isnt even that from what I see

[11:35]  Cummere Mayo: pink i can answer that… yes its still behind

[11:35]  Cummere Mayo: that was discussed all week at lots of other office hours

[11:35]  Jack Linden: Master, that doesn’t make sense.. the estates and their oruchase of land is a key part of our future – we wouldn’t want to do it ourselves in that way, we can’t scale to support 20k islands for example

[11:36]  Techwolf Lupindo: v2 is stil a distance third as far as viewer usage goes.

[11:36]  Master Kane: so why dont you listen to the residents then?

[11:36]  S0phie Sautereau: but Jack, recent desicions and even programs “implermented by M” don’t follow that

[11:36]  Melody Regent: We get several hundress noobs on our sims a day, my mentors spend a great deal of time telling them how to get Emerald and showing them how to use it

[11:36]  Master Kane: well not YOU.. but LL

[11:36]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I don’t doubt you on that, Cummere, but I heard it from Jack here a few weeks ago and wanted an update…:)

[11:36]  Jack Linden: nema, as far as getting the best search experience – I would stay on the very latest viewer because there will be enhancements that we won’t build back into legacy viewers

[11:37]  Cummere Mayo: hoenstly the best search features tend to be on the snowglobe line

[11:37]  Master Kane: land owers ARE ( hate to inform you and LL of this) residents

[11:37]  Sonya Haight: according to the search blog the best features for search on on v2 Cummere

[11:37]  Sonya Haight: are on*

[11:37]  Nema Galicia: then when thre is a physical reason v2 is not acceptable viewer for me I get left back along with many others

[11:37]  Nema Galicia: ok

[11:37]  Nema Galicia: I see

[11:37]  Jack Linden: S0phie – I can understand the perception; I’m just saying the reality is not that we somehow don’t value estates, quite the opposite. So we need to demonstrate that in what we do and build and say, so that we can change that perception

[11:37]  Cummere Mayo: snowglobe has v2 as well sonya

[11:37]  Melody Regent: Jack, we understand that you say PEs are inportant, but the public perception is far differnt. From how land was removed from search, not included in teh beta Market and the lack of announcments about the tier pricing. You say you want us around, but what is seen is differnt

[11:38]  Melody Regent: Someone get Zoha some duct tape

[11:38]  Saffia Widdershins is Online

[11:38]  Melody Regent: or staples his feet to the floor

[11:38]  Sonya Haight: oh yeah, didnt’ think about that

[11:38]  Equinox Pinion: he is using viewer 2.0 *g*

[11:38]  Master Kane: lol

[11:38]  Jack Linden: The work to put Land into the new Marketplace will happen soon, ahead of marketplace full launch

[11:38]  Melody Regent: Well, let me send you where to download a reliable viewer

[11:38]  Lady Sakai: hrs just asking for it then

[11:38]  Master Kane: true that equi

[11:39]  Zoha Boa: /holds equi’s handd

[11:39]  Equinox Pinion: which viewer are you using zoha lol

[11:39]  S0phie Sautereau: Jack, I think most of us are aware you are limited essentially in how much you are permitted to answer and exactly waht you can do to help esp out of your “dept” but the two most critical issues WERE the builder-unfriendly viewer and a web-based Search engine that was orignially designed for an uncontained www brought to a contained world–square peg, round hole. Now the support problem compounds those two unresolved revenue-generating resident issues. All that LL has done in the last few months was appear to not only neglect this user base, but to eschew it, chasing after a demographic with a whole lot less money to spend in here. PLEASE voice that to someone who can institute better decision-making at the top.

[11:39]  Lady Sakai: V2lmao

[11:39]  Equinox Pinion: dont be ashamed…sayi t lol

[11:39]  Lady Sakai: I can see what hes using Equi

[11:40]  Melody Regent: I am just trying to let you know Jack what people are saying and how they are feeling. Not one or two, ALOT

[11:40]  Equinox Pinion: LOL

[11:40]  Sonya Haight: well thats good news at least, about the Land in Marketplace

[11:40]  Master Kane: Jack, what about Pinks question?

[11:40]  Uni Ninetails: I remember Tom Hales big meeting… Want better builder features… use a TPV.. great cheers thanks. -.-

[11:40]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Jack, you mentioned some weeks ago that V2 was behind other viewers as far as usage. I gave you a head’s up that I would ask again. I have asked that a few times here, tying it into the issues being discussed here. Is V2 STILL behind most other viewers as far as usage?

[11:41]  Master Kane: [11:35] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Jack, you mentioned some weeks ago that V2 was behind other viewers as far as usage. I gave you a head’s up that I would ask again. I have asked that a few times here, tying it into the issues being discussed here. Is V2 STILL behind most other viewers as far as usage?

[11:41]  Jack Linden: S0phie, good input. To be clear, Search and Marketplace and Viewer are all now very much a part of my group’s responsibilities post re-org

[11:41]  Equinox Pinion: what are your responsibilities now jack

[11:42]  Driftwood Miles: Supersims!!

[11:42]  Equinox Pinion: LOL!!

[11:42]  Lady Sakai: lol Drift

[11:42]  Liisa Runo: yes, even the copybot clients (what tell the server they are v2) have more users than v2. if LL claim that v2 usage is even 1% they either have misinformation, or they lie.

[11:42]  Jack Linden: APinkSwan, let me grab the current number. Will throw it out in a sec

[11:42]  Uni Ninetails: lol… yeah gimme a 20×20 sim with 15k prims please

[11:42]  Master Kane stomps foot.. we want numbers jack.. numbers… come on.. youc an do it

[11:42]  S0phie Sautereau: they shoudl be #1, you have empty-nesters with tons of disposable income they spend in here intent to make you and they much more while “someone” chases the FB crowd…bad decision

[11:42]  Master Kane: WOOHOO NUMBERA!

[11:42]  Master Kane: ummm thats Numbers

[11:43]  Nber Medici: In Phil’s transcript he mentioned a SCRUM team working on Lag and Sim crossings. Any thoughts on that?

[11:43]  Cummere Mayo takes up chant : numbers numbers numbers

[11:43]  Jimmy Firecaster is Offline

[11:43]  Techwolf Lupindo grins “This is one number jack can’t make up.”

[11:43]  Master Kane looks for his old “numbers” gesture for DMC game lol

[11:43]  Driftwood Miles: scrum? whose the hooker?

[11:43]  Nema Galicia: they should have it how many are using it after there first 2 weeks in sl

[11:43]  Master Kane: lmao drift

[11:43]  Melody Regent: NOt Jack, but someone can

[11:44]  Uni Ninetails avoids the prostitute joke. “rugby you say?”

[11:44]  Reverend Upshaw is Offline

[11:44]  Driftwood Miles: LOL Uni

[11:44]  Cummere Mayo: lol

[11:44]  Jack Linden: hehe

[11:44]  Laddie Sutter floofs Uni

[11:44]  Uni Ninetails: ~ ^^

[11:44]  Master Kane: true nema and that poll they had lasted maybe 4 days and 3 used v2 and 1500 hated it

[11:44]  Master Kane: D”Oh!

[11:45]  S0phie Sautereau: I gave input on 2.0 every time that Xstreet survey came up ,lol

[11:45]  Master Kane: lol uni

[11:45]  Cummere Mayo: poor nyx’s office hour and oz’s are pretty much bitch fests about poor quality of v2

[11:45]  Master Kane: me too sophie… hate it lol

[11:45]  Cummere Mayo: and snowglobe team is trying to redo the ui

[11:45]  Uni Ninetails: yup why i dont go to Nyx’s much anymore

[11:45]  Bronson Blackadder wonders when my ticket from july 14th will be looked at

[11:46]  Cummere Mayo: good luck bronson, ive got one from may that i gave up on

[11:46]  Sonya Haight: file a ticket and ask when you can have yoru ticket looked at Bronson?

[11:46]  Bronson Blackadder: lol

[11:46]  XLR8RRICK Hudson: What year

[11:46]  Master Kane: Bronson.. some are getting redy to go back to school.. have to give them time to respind to tikcets.. i cant type in this lag

[11:46]  Master Kane: Oh! …

[11:46]  Master Kane: My! …

[11:46]  Master Kane: Gawd!!

[11:46]  Master Kane: oops

[11:46]  Bronson Blackadder: this year

[11:46]  Sonya Haight: what lag?

[11:46]  Master Kane: oh shush

[11:46]  Laddie Sutter: mono lag

[11:46]  Master Kane: yah yah that

[11:47]  Sonya Haight: I’m not feeling a thing, but I’m half asleep

[11:47]  Cummere Mayo: my friend that was banned, tried to file an appeal, and also jsut asked that i and his sl wife be allowed to have back items in his inventory he was borrowing (which soft said could easily be done) and its been a month and his tickets werent even viewed

[11:47]  Melody Regent: Speaking of lag, I would like to open a group chat with 3 people in it and not get chat lag out the….

[11:47]  Master Kane: all these tara, moody, ncore shoes in here jesus

[11:47]  S0phie Sautereau: Jack, 2.0 just needs builder version, fewer clicks, customization of frequently used menus/buttons AND i’d want to know that my activity can’t be tracked out of world

[11:47]  Zoha Boa: there isn’t lag anymore in SL. It’s since last friday Fun EAsy and Fast

[11:47]  Lady Sakai: did Jack drown in the numbers seach ?

[11:47]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: shhh….don’t bother Jack, Lady

[11:47]  Master Kane: think hes looking

[11:47]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I want my numbers…lol

[11:47]  Lady Sakai: ops sowwy

[11:47]  Bronson Blackadder: my first day in SL there was a database issue and I couldnt access search or the map and couldnt get off avatar island, I filed a ticket and two days later my account was fixed

[11:47]  Sonya Haight: pfft I like my shoes MK, hush, besides you showed me where to get them

[11:48]  Melody Regent: LOL, we need to send him a reminder BEFOER the meeting

[11:48]  Zoha Boa: Jack is using search to find those numbers back

[11:48]  Jack Linden: okays so Viewer2 is about the same usage as 1.23, with the latest (2.1) being half of the viewer 2.x usage

[11:48]  Bronson Blackadder: that was support almost three years ago

[11:48]  Lady Sakai mumbles ” dont use the seach to try and find it jack”

[11:48]  Master Kane umm ermm.. guilty!

[11:48]  Melody Regent: and 3rd party viewers Jack?

[11:48]  Uni Ninetails: Jack Builders need local asset browser ala emerald. V2 users dont know it but they NEED it. Cause i say so.

[11:48]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Okay, where do those fit in on the list of viewers though Jack?

[11:48]  Master Kane: Wheres the numbers jack… we wantnumbers please

[11:48]  S0phie Sautereau: lol ZOha!

[11:48]  Techwolf Lupindo: emerald is about 40% of all viewers used.

[11:49]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: V2 was behind most viewers, so are BOTH V2 and 1.23 behind the others?

[11:49]  HD Pomeray is Online

[11:49]  Master Kane: reason WHY Pink is because you can use those for creating ALPHA and TATTOOS.. thats about *IT*

[11:49]  Jack Linden: Emerald is about 18k lower than it was early June.. at about 70k now. This chart doesn’t look to be totally current though so I’d need to dig more to get todays numbers

[11:50]  S0phie Sautereau: Emerald 1.4 has new alpha capabilities

[11:50]  Sonya Haight: you can the new Emerald too MK

[11:50]  Master Kane: creators will switch to emerald, and those others to MAKE those things, then switchABCK to 1.23

[11:50]  Uni Ninetails: Ok lets see why do i use Emerald…. built in AO. Local texture browser. Temp uploads. Easier to manage.

[11:50]  Sophi Humby: Do you know jack , how long a tsim transfer ticket takes part nowadays, all the time I see in advertisements that people are selling to extended support customers also, are you aware what are the disadvantages of the long transfer time? is it really need to be that long?

[11:50]  Techwolf Lupindo: So that makes 1.23 based viwers vs. v2.x based viwers. V2 would score 25-30% usage.

[11:50]  Jack Linden: how many folks here are using emerald?

[11:50]  Master Kane: lets get REAL here Jack

[11:50]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Okay, but where does that put these viewers on the list exactly>?

[11:50]  XLR8RRICK Hudson: Me

[11:50]  Melody Regent: I use Emerald

[11:50]  Uni Ninetails: Jack me. and if you guys have any sense youll listen to builders who use it.

[11:50]  Laddie Sutter: chat and walk at th esame time

[11:50]  Sammy Hermit: i use it

[11:50]  Nema Galicia: look at the increase also of imprudence users and hippo those r one migratting fast away from sl

[11:50]  Driftwood Miles: won’t use it

[11:50]  Sophi Humby: EMerald

[11:50]  Nber Medici: me

[11:50]  Jack Linden: and if you use emerald, do you use other viewers too or just emerald for everything?

[11:50]  Master Kane: 1.23 here

[11:50]  Nber Medici: Emerald and Kirstens

[11:50]  Alliez Mysterio: 1.23

[11:50]  Lady Sakai: 12 Jack

[11:51]  Qie Niangao: I know some have switched from Emerald to Kirsten’s

[11:51]  Sammy Hermit: just Emerald

[11:51]  Melody Regent: 13

[11:51]  XLR8RRICK Hudson: 15 here on Emerald

[11:51]  Techwolf Lupindo pulls up some number and calcs….

[11:51]  Khamon Fate: V2.1 testing http textures but prefer 1.23 interface

[11:51]  Bronson Blackadder: I use 2.1, kirstens, and imprudence

[11:51]  Melody Regent: and I use nothing else

[11:51]  Uni Ninetails: emerald cause V2 cocks up the cahce and clothing. and i dont have time to bugger about swapping viewers

[11:51]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I like the numbers, Jack but also want to know what’s on top, etc.

[11:51]  Lady Sakai: sorry lol 13

[11:51]  Nema Galicia: I am on 1.23 but looking at emrald

[11:51]  Jack Linden: because that’s part of the issue here.. we seem to have a lot of folks using multiple viewers which makes it a little more confusing

[11:51]  XLR8RRICK Hudson: 9 on V2

[11:51]  Bronson Blackadder: and occasionaly 1.23

[11:51]  Sonya Haight: I’m using Emerald

[11:51]  S0phie Sautereau: Emerald for EVEYRTHING

[11:51]  Sophi Humby: emerald radar is pretty useful, plus the profile of avatars show keys of the avatars

[11:51]  Bronson Blackadder: curently on 2.1 now

[11:51]  Daniel Voyager: http://blog.modularsystems.sl/2010/07/19/emerald-user-statistics/

[11:51]  Master Kane: hahaha

[11:51]  Cummere Mayo: i use snowglobe and v2 i only use v2 when i want support though

[11:51]  Jack Linden: yeah people mention the radar a lot\

[11:51]  Sophi Humby: these to are essntial for my em work

[11:51]  Jack Linden is Offline

[11:51]  Master Kane: thats like ford giving a link to checy

[11:52]  Master Kane: lmao

[11:52]  Master Kane: chevy

[11:52]  Lady Sakai: the radar is absolutely brill jack

[11:52]  Melody Regent: [11:51] Jack Linden is Offline <<— V2 user

[11:52]  Master Kane: LMAO

[11:52]  Sammy Hermit:

[11:52]  S0phie Sautereau: Jack you will have clearer numbers when Emerald launches their stable 1.4

[11:52]  Master Kane: Goooood one Mel!

[11:52]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: lol….You aren’t going to touch this with a 10 foot pole, are you Jack?…lol

[11:52]  Nema Galicia: what i dont like about emerald is all the attchments I see people using it leave all over the place

[11:52]  Laddie Sutter: Jack i think the only thing i can ask is, when is the final settling of the reorganisation goign to take place so we can move forward because i know from experiance the more chaos ther eis in the upper enchlons th eless gets done lower, so when can we get back to normal?

[11:52]  Sonya Haight: I have Imprudence but use that for another grid, this one I only use Emerald on

[11:52]  Bronson Blackadder: v2 has a limited version of radar

[11:52]  Sonya Haight: ok so there is lag MK

[11:52]  Uni Ninetails: Jack. temp texture. local texture. built in AO. Radar would be nice too

[11:52]  Bronson Blackadder: its nearby people

[11:52]  Melody Regent: Jack has crashed all

[11:52]  Master Kane: maybe he got suspened for an hour

[11:52]  Sonya Haight kicks chat!

[11:52]  Master Kane: LMAO

[11:52]  Khamon Fate: That was last week Laddie; LL are all reorganized now.

[11:52]  Lady Sakai: the OnTyne got him

[11:53]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: lol Lady

[11:53]  Nema Galicia: an ontyne banned him

[11:53]  Sammy Hermit: lol

[11:53]  XLR8RRICK Hudson: V2 will do that to ya

[11:53]  Lady Sakai: lmao

[11:53]  Master Kane: lol

[11:53]  Khamon Fate: The Ontyne Rules Supreme

[11:53]  Bronson Blackadder: Cummere crashed

[11:53]  S0phie Sautereau: lol suspended…Jack???

[11:53]  Alliez Mysterio: lol

[11:53]  Master Kane: maybe we should rethink this ontynes thing….. lalalaal

[11:53]  Melody Regent: Between Ontynes and V2 – We are going to hell in a hand basket

[11:53]  Techwolf Lupindo: for the previous week, emerald had 50.0260649027 percent usage based on number of sessions.

[11:53]  Khamon Fate: just as well, I gotta go anyway, see y’all

[11:53]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Funny, but sadly true, Mel.

[11:53]  Lady Sakai: I wouldnt put it past them Sophie

[11:54]  Uni Ninetails: finally get a chance to get jack to take some ideas back to unfuck viewer 2 and he crashes.

[11:54]  Master Kane: by ekhamon

[11:54]  S0phie Sautereau: SLhell

[11:54]  Techwolf Lupindo: of all viewers used.

[11:54]  Liisa Runo: kinda hard to believe that v2 has so many users. LL need better tools to measure the numbers

[11:54]  Master Kane: ditto Liisa

[11:54]  S0phie Sautereau: yeah, I’m not buying those numbers at all

[11:54]  Bronson Blackadder: the few times I ever used emerald it was a crash fest

[11:54]  Bronson Blackadder: never went back to it

[11:54]  Uni Ninetails: Have it run 8-12hours a day.

[11:54]  Melody Regent: They have tools and know exactly who is using what and for how long and when – they are just not going to share

[11:54]  Nema Galicia: I dont think they r looking at numbers after a noob has been inworld at least two weeks to learn there r better ones

[11:54]  Master Kane: to make alpha and tattos.. yea sure.. then jump back on another one

[11:54]  XLR8RRICK Hudson: Dont forget all new people are fed V2

[11:54]  Sammy Hermit: Jack wanted to see the end of Eastenders i bet

[11:54]  Uni Ninetails: RIIICCCCCCEEEYY!!

[11:55]  Lady Sakai: Bronson, Icouldnt live without Emerald.. and Ive had no problems with it .. but I do know a few that is very laggy on it for some od reason

[11:55]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Well, we never really got the question answered about where V2 sits on the list of viewers, but we did get “some” numbers…:)

[11:55]  Liisa Runo: i know for a fact that the most famous copybot client tell the server that it is v2. i bet those numbers go to LL statistics. Copybotting is damn fucking popular these days

[11:55]  Bronson Blackadder: however imprudence works great

[11:55]  Cummere Mayo: i dont use emerald it crashes, and peoples information is way too insecure on it

[11:55]  Master Kane: Yes XLR that is why we should take the option to HELP these new users on 1.23 or something else…

[11:55]  Nema Galicia: yes it does for xporting all my good out of sl

[11:55]  Zoha Boa is Offline

[11:55]  S0phie Sautereau: Cummere, our info is same everywhere, .ol

[11:56]  Sophi Humby: one more Emerald feature, the easy change of draw distance, I use that a lot, it is really needed

[11:56]  Techwolf Lupindo: I can go back and see if I managed to archive some number I got of all LL viewers used…..

[11:56]  Master Kane: No we didnt Pink… and doubt that we will

[11:56]  S0phie Sautereau: no more secure on one viewer than another

[11:56]  Lady Sakai: yeap .. apparently for some its “ok” to copybot to fix perms that you dont like

[11:56]  Master Kane: cool tech…

[11:56]  Cummere Mayo: wanna bet?

[11:56]  Melody Regent: hmm, a line in dallas was cut and the hotel ISP is not working

[11:56]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Very cool, Tech!

[11:56]  XLR8RRICK Hudson: I just dont help new people on V2 because I dont use it

[11:56]  Sophi Humby: Do you know Jack, how long a sim transfer ticket takes part nowadays? All the time I see in advertisements that people are selling to extended support customers only. Are you aware what are the disadvantages of the long transfer time? Ss it really need to be that long?

[11:56]  Sonya Haight: well I can’[t live without my gtfo button

[11:56]  S0phie Sautereau: you mean IP? all viewers access our IPs, that’s log-in info

[11:56]  Nema Galicia: Lady lost me again

[11:56]  Lady Sakai: Sonya, your a GTFO addict hun lol

[11:57]  Master Kane: is jack back?

[11:57]  Uni Ninetails: And the jack came back the very next day the jack came back and wouldnt stay away….

[11:57]  Melody Regent: Jack is not back

[11:57]  Cummere Mayo: i can pull so much more then ip off someoen using emerald.

[11:57]  Sonya Haight: love that button

[11:57]  XLR8RRICK Hudson: Times up Bye all

[11:57]  Melody Regent: I adore my double click to TP

[11:57]  Lady Sakai: sorry Nema I was refering to a thread in the blogums . let me see if i can find it still

[11:57]  Master Kane: Sophie.. he isnt back yet

[11:57]  Sophi Humby: Thanks

[11:57]  Nema Galicia: t=y lady

[11:57]  Master Kane: doubel click?

[11:57]  Master Kane: wow

[11:57]  S0phie Sautereau: browser info, machine info, all gathered in 2.0 and 1.23 as well

[11:57]  Master Kane: once for me

[11:58]  Sonya Haight: its the little things MK

[11:58]  Master Kane: excuse me? I am not little pfffft

[11:58]  S0phie Sautereau: processor, the works, all in others

[11:58]  Master Kane: lol

[11:58]  Cummere Mayo: tue but harder to acess and on soem viewers its ast least encrypted

[11:58]  Melody Regent: Not what we heard MK

[11:58]  Sammy Hermit: See you all next week with my same moan parcel not in search

[11:58]  Master Kane: hey now!

[11:58]  Cummere Mayo: but i can get cahce contents, trasaction details etc off emerald

[11:58]  Lady Sakai: http://blogs.secondlife.com/message/325270#325270 .. its originally about resizers / perms .. but you will read some of the posts and see how some people think its just fine to alter perms to fit their own needs

[11:58]  Sonya Haight: good Luck Sammy

[11:58]  Master Kane: wait.. yea.. as for sims.. yah .. im in the tiniest ones… so pfft

[11:58]  Melody Regent: I dont think he will be back and the crash was cause becuase he didnt want to give us those numbers

[11:58]  Melody Regent: convient

[11:59]  Nema Galicia: k going to go read

[11:59]  S0phie Sautereau: omg, Lady, I saw that thread, it was unnerving

[11:59]  Laddie Sutter: i would kill for a bag of oreos righ tnow

[11:59]  Nema Galicia: from home

[11:59]  Master Kane: kk nema

[11:59]  Nema Galicia: ttfn

[11:59]  Melody Regent: NutterButters sound good to me

[12:00]  Lady Sakai: yea it was Sophie … Im guessing they would need one of those alternate viewers to do it … I dont know crap about it cos Im way to lazy to go down that route anyhow

[12:00]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I think the use of V2 is a very important discussion, as it ties in to so many other issues as well….support, time and energy being spent on it, search, retention rate, and more.

[12:00]  Melody Regent: Bye all, it was a decent meeting, thanks for coming on behalf o Jack. I am sure he did want to give us those numbers and the gods above wont allow it

[12:01]  Master Kane: Personally i think each person should educate themselve on HOW it is done.. and ifyour a scriptor.. take action against it and sharew with other creeators and designers.. but thats just MY opinion

[12:01]  Lady Sakai: one thing about V2 that I havent seen many people bring up is the fact that a lot of us cant help the newbies …. and that is crucial to retaining them in SL

[12:01]  Liisa Runo: anyway, we all know this will happen: LL has already started to talk about making v2 able to switch between v2 UI and normal UI

[12:01]  Uni Ninetails: login failures

[12:01]  Uni Ninetails: http://status.secondlifegrid.net/

[12:01]  Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/159/113/38

Transcripts provided by Jorja Giano

[11:01]  Qie Niangao: greetings, Jack
[11:01]  Sonya Haight: hi Jack
[11:01]  Lady Sakai: PINK !!!!!
[11:01]  Equinox Pinion: hi jack
[11:01]  Alexxa Despres: Hi Jack
[11:01]  Uni Ninetails: lo jack
[11:01]  Zep Palen: Ok evenybody…Jack is about to arrive…be ready to dump your questions on him ?
[11:01]  Jack Linden: hey guys
[11:01]  Lady Sakai: oh boy did I just run over a bunch of ppl ?
[11:01]  Master Kane: hi jack welcome back to sl
[11:01]  Lady Sakai: hi Jack
[11:01]  Jolee Baxton: Hi Jack
[11:01]  Sammy Hermit: Hi Jack
[11:01]  Gregg Barrymore: hi jack long time no see
[11:01]  Medhue Simoni: hi jack
[11:01]  Jack Linden: one sec while i fix my audio
[11:01]  xstorm Radek: hi Jack
[11:01]  Zep Palen: Hi Jack
[11:01]  Alexxa Despres: <<thinks Jack is going to serenade us
[11:02]  Jolee Baxton: lol..
[11:02]  Jack Linden: alexxa, nobody wants to hear that
[11:02]  Jack Linden:
[11:02]  Alexxa Despres: Hmmm.depends on what song you sing ;P
[11:02]  Equinox Pinion: i would LOVE to hear that *g*
[11:02]  Zep Palen: thats probably true
[11:02]  Master Kane: never know jack. might be better than some of your answers
[11:02]  Equinox Pinion: lol
[11:02]  Uni Ninetails: so whats the good news Jack?
[11:02]  Jack Linden: oh Master, man.. 2 mins in!
[11:03]  Bronson Blackadder: poorjack
[11:03]  Jack Linden: harsh
[11:03]  Gregg Barrymore: oO0Oo
[11:03]  Master Kane: LOL
[11:03]  Sonya Haight thumps MK, told you to behave
[11:03]  Bitsy Giano: why do we get storms here every time you guys have a meeting
[11:03]  kaiya Manbi: is jayson jacks body guard? ?
[11:03]  Master Kane looks at ground and kicks the dirt… oookie…
[11:03]  Bitsy Giano: is there a way for me to blame Jack on that?
[11:03]  Serra Anansi: Bitsy, its an omen
[11:03]  Sonya Haight: for a few minutes anyway, then you can go for it
[11:03]  Get Parcel Info Hud: This Parcel Webpage http://world.secondlife.com/place/e3a490e5-befd-415f-9052-47b3abac9b73
[11:03]  Jack Linden: okays, my audio is vaguely working again. soo.. we’ve a bunch of stuff to discuss this week i’m sure.. how many of you are using v2.1?
[11:03]  Jayson Dorn: don’t pay me enough for that
[11:03]  Jayson Dorn: nothing personal Jack
[11:03]  Bitsy Giano: Jack fix it please its thundering LOL
[11:04]  Serra Anansi raises her hand
[11:04]  Equinox Pinion: i refuse to use it
[11:04]  Alexxa Despres: V what?
[11:04]  Alexxa Despres:
[11:04]  Serra Anansi: I like it
[11:04]  Equinox Pinion: lol
[11:04]  Pamela Galli: no
[11:04]  Qie Niangao: I’m on 2.1
[11:04]  kaiya Manbi: not me
[11:04]  Rene Erlanger: lol Viewer 2.0 seires…..abort abort
[11:04]  Fly-Bangle de Lux 2.1: All Go
[11:04]  Master Kane: OK here comes my interest…
[11:04]  Ardy Lay: Jack, I am using it.
[11:04]  Lady Sakai: Im with Equi on that … sorry jack
[11:04]  Master Kane: Jack -> Do you have any information on the script limits as to when we will start seeing them taking effect? Also, is there a WIKI on it some where that we can read about it and what to expect it to do to those entering a sim/region when they have to many scripts on? Thanks
[11:04]  Toothfairy Tizzy: not me
[11:04]  Bronson Blackadder: raises hand
[11:04]  Serra Anansi: some bad, but mostly I like it
[11:04]  Gregg Barrymore: i been to busy setting up on an os griod to try it
[11:04]  Uni Ninetails: Refuse to use 2.1 cause it lacks things i require to create content.
[11:04]  Sammy Hermit: no but friends say they can’t log on useing it
[11:04]  Jack Linden: if you’re using 2.1, how have you found performance so far?
[11:04]  Jolee Baxton: Not me
[11:04]  Bronson Blackadder: better
[11:04]  Medhue Simoni: yep v2 here, not liking it tho
[11:04]  Uni Ninetails: Hey Ardy i saw the commend about lod
[11:04]  Bronson Blackadder: havent crashed on it
[11:04]  Serra Anansi: SOme things are really broken.. but some other things are nice
[11:05]  Bitsy Giano: I would use it some jack but every time I do it wipes all my settings!!!
[11:05]  Bronson Blackadder: its a big improvement over 2.0
[11:05]  Qie Niangao: haven’t seen much difference yet, Jack. Occasional random freezes for a few secs, but that’s common for me in 2.0
[11:05]  Ardy Lay: Jack, better than Viewer 1.23.5 but just a little slower than Snowglobe 1.4.0
[11:05]  Zep Palen: 2.1 has a big problem when opening script windows
[11:05]  Jack Linden: hm okay.. from our side, the data around crash rate and fps both look much better on v2.1
[11:05]  Serra Anansi: Bitsy, that will stop if you keep using it and not switch between the two
[11:05]  Techwolf Lupindo: Viewew 2.x is great on resorces, but that only due to i’me not using it.
[11:05]  Ardy Lay: And quite cheating by yanking detail away from us!
[11:05]  Bitsy Giano: I know if I don’t switch it will
[11:05]  Bitsy Giano: but I don’t care for it enough not to switch
[11:05]  Qie Niangao: dunno if http textures are turned on for the 1.40 sims yet
[11:05]  Bitsy Giano: I need current productivity
[11:06]  Jolee Baxton: When I use v2, everytime I log in I have a newb skin, shape, etc.
[11:06]  Uni Ninetails: Sooo it runs better but they dropped detail? yay?
[11:06]  Jack Linden: Qie, i don’t think so yet
[11:06]  Serra Anansi eyes xstorm
[11:06]  xstorm Radek: Jack please do not ask how Second Life 2.1.0 (206756) Jul 9 2010 13:53:28 (Second Life Beta Viewer) is for it needs a lot of work and i will like to talk more about what steps are taken to get better support for mainland owners that have a half sim or full sim
[11:06]  Jack Linden: We’re hoping to get that stuff on v. soon
[11:06]  Equinox Pinion: Jack, live support is not avaible anymore 24/7 and it was not announced anywhere! What do we have to do when we have an emergency during the offline hours..wait on a phone line for 45 min listening to music?
[11:06]  Ardy Lay: xstorm, quit using that build.
[11:06]  Bitsy Giano: Jack are they still working on the search, since your last fix I’ve been totally dumped again
[11:07]  Jolee Baxton: I want to know how small companies are supposed to get business and grow when the search is based on traffic?
[11:07]  Sammy Hermit: Jack wil you ever sort search out my land hasn’t shown for weeks now ???
[11:07]  Qie Niangao: Jolee: save an outfit once. after that, viewer 2 behaves much better with wearables.
[11:07]  Bitsy Giano: filed support tickets, no answer in over a week
[11:07]  Jack Linden: xstorm, just wanting to get some feedback.. we pushed on a lot of bugs and performance issues in 2.1 and so i was curious how people feel about it so far
[11:07]  Jolee Baxton: Thanks Qie
[11:07]  Alexxa Despres: Sammy…no one’s does… except for Dr Who who has NO land for rent
[11:07]  xstorm Radek: and Mainland no longer has Leo Linden for any form of help at all
[11:07]  Lady Sakai: Good Point Jolee .. Eliminate Traffic jack .. gie the smaller ones a fighting chance PLZ
[11:07]  Alexxa Despres: I think that’s a relelvant point ;P
[11:07]  Erinyse Planer: jack ask all the lindens whos office hours have been hijacked about it. the UI SUCKS
[11:07]  Medhue Simoni: search jack, not v2
[11:07]  Jayson Dorn: yeah Jack I’d like to know what’s going on in search too. I was great before the last fix but can’t find me anywhere now
[11:08]  Jack Linden: So Sammy brings up search.. we’ve now had the latest update for a while.. some folks are finding it to be much improved from the feedback i’ve had
[11:08]  kaiya Manbi: Question 2!!! whats the situation with SEARCH?
[11:08]  Jack Linden: what do you guys think?
[11:08]  xstorm Radek: what do mainland sim owners do with no support Jack ?
[11:08]  Equinox Pinion: i think search improved for sure
[11:08]  Jayson Dorn: yeah type in land for rent and see what you get Jack. Nothing but region listings for pages
[11:08]  Medhue Simoni: It sucks worse that v2
[11:08]  Bitsy Giano: I think I’ve been on the first page without using bots for year and half and got instantly dumped
[11:08]  Jolee Baxton: I want to know how small companies are supposed to get business and grow when the search is based on traffic?
[11:08]  Alexxa Despres: It’ s a list of regions…. and not only is that frustrating for land owners….but MORE importantly..for residents looking for land
[11:08]  Zep Palen: I find the new search to be a big improvement…but there seems still to be bugs..
[11:08]  Pamela Galli: A fashion store has been at the top of PREFAB search since the new search
[11:08]  Equinox Pinion: still have bugs
[11:08]  Jack Linden: xstorm, as i’ve said a few times, I’m not in the support group any more.. but that said, why are you not able to contact support?
[11:08]  Bitsy Giano: I’ve let go one sim this week out of 4
[11:08]  kaiya Manbi: so when one search for say “land for rent” the huge listing of regions, then listing of avatar names is the way its going to stay?
[11:08]  Sammy Hermit: well i never show in search so its no good for me and surport tickets are just shut
[11:09]  Bitsy Giano: and will continue if I can’t get searchable
[11:09]  Lady Sakai: Improved for some (inclueding myself ) BUT .. Traffic still counts making it hard on the small people jack .. plz eliminate that one ??
[11:09]  Alexxa Despres: It’s an improvement for store…gifts..hair… shapes..skins…. all GREAT
[11:09]  Sonya Haight: I think its much improved, now I get to stay on the front page a few days before I’m dumped completely out of search for a week.
[11:09]  Alexxa Despres: Land and Homes…
[11:09]  Alexxa Despres: the PITS!
[11:09]  Lady Sakai: I agree with Alexxa
[11:09]  Jayson Dorn: I was always page one or two in search. in land for rent and now can’t even find me
[11:09]  xstorm Radek: Ontyne Support told me a number of times they can not help mainland renters just Island owners
[11:09]  Jack Linden: Bitsy.. have you followed the guidance on listing in search? in almost every case when folks can’t get themselves listed well it’s something related to their listing
[11:09]  Bitsy Giano: correct jayson same here
[11:09]  Bitsy Giano: and if people can’t find me no point in having the sims
[11:10]  Sonya Haight: wouldn’t even mind sinking down a few pages, but it just throws me away not anywhere on 35 pages
[11:10]  Jolee Baxton: I want to know how small companies are supposed to get business and grow when the search is based on traffic?
[11:10]  Lady Sakai: Jack.. try typing any form of the word “Rental” … and see the list of 21 pages of regions pop up O.o
[11:10]  Jack Linden: Alexxa, I agree.. Land is one of the areas we’re hitting soon
[11:10]  Sammy Hermit: yes Jack i’m not speming or anythink
[11:10]  Jolee Baxton: No,, it’s all regions listed
[11:10]  Medhue Simoni: We all have Jack, we run businesses here, not hobby shops
[11:10]  Alexxa Despres: TY Jack
[11:10]  Sammy Hermit: spaming
[11:10]  Sav Lanzet: Can you be more specific as to what ‘soon’ means??
[11:10]  Liisa Runo: 2027
[11:10]  kaiya Manbi: Jack, then why is it then that i can be found in search on the front page for two days then gone again for 10 days, then back in again for 2 days, this has been going on since may
[11:10]  Bitsy Giano: thats just honest will only hang in there chasing my tail in circles so long
[11:11]  Jayson Dorn: Jack I have managed to survive all the changes you guys have thrown at us as have many here but Land for rent is hosed as a search term or anything with rent in it
[11:11]  Sonya Haight: Jack when we show up on page 1 for a few days then just disappear totally how can that be related to the way we have it listed?
[11:11]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: So, is it safe to say you guys are still working on Search?
[11:11]  Jolee Baxton: I spent 50USD 3 weeks straight for a classified AD and hardly got anyone
[11:11]  Gregg Barrymore: lol sawnie
[11:11]  Jack Linden: Sav, the team has a bunch of backlog items that they work on with an aim to release every 2 weeks currently (though we’d like to get to more frequently). So it’ll depend on how the work goes. I have no way to give you a fixed date because I’d most likely be wrong.
[11:11]  Jack Linden: But it’s high on the list of items to get fixed asap
[11:12]  Lady Sakai: Jack, what about RENTAL HOMES ?
[11:12]  Zep Palen: Jolee…classifieds doesnt really have anything todo with the general search
[11:12]  Alexxa Despres: K..so since the last search was rolled out… it has been 2 weeks… to the day
[11:12]  Sonya Haight: you do know businesses are leaving Jack?
[11:12]  Bitsy Giano: a lot of them
[11:12]  Jack Linden: APinkSwan, I’m not sure you’re ever really ‘finished’ working on something like search.
[11:12]  Lady Sakai: RENTAL HOMES is being badly neglegted by LL… is that on purpose ?
[11:12]  Jack Linden: That’s why we have a standing team on it long term
[11:12]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Indeed, Jack!
[11:12]  Bitsy Giano: and a lot of large ones downsizing
[11:12]  Jolee Baxton: I know but I’ve always done it that way and now, no one…Ghost toen
[11:12]  Medhue Simoni: I does not sound like you care if we stay or not jack
[11:12]  Jolee Baxton: town*
[11:12]  Medhue Simoni: Search should be the main issue, and focus
[11:12]  Sammy Hermit: after this meeting i’ll be leaving too i can’t go on like this anymore
[11:13]  Bitsy Giano: ok Jack my issue is when they don’t even acknowledge our tickets and we are hurting that bad
[11:13]  Medhue Simoni: You broke it on us not fix it.
[11:13]  Bitsy Giano: for weeks or months
[11:13]  Jayson Dorn: Jack, your going to start seeing a lot of land owners out of business very shortly if this Land rental search doesn’t get fixed
[11:13]  Jack Linden: Medhue, what makes you think I don’t care? We absolutely do. We’re fixing the issues just as rapidly as our resources allow
[11:13]  Bitsy Giano: and finally after months throw a canned answer at you
[11:13]  kaiya Manbi: anything to do with rent land lists regions, and being found in it, is random – what id like to know, is once its “fixed” is it still going to be just a listing of regions and avatar names?
[11:13]  xstorm Radek: So Jack if you can no longer help mainland owner and mainland owners have no way to get there sim restarted when there is problems what will we do have to phone LL and find some one to yell at ?
[11:13]  Medhue Simoni: How many months has this gone on jack
[11:13]  Sonya Haight: are you even considering a different search engine altogether Jack?
[11:13]  Bitsy Giano: it gets a hair frustrating
[11:13]  Jack Linden: Jayson, understood. As I said, hence it being so high on the search backlog
[11:13]  Rene Erlanger: Jack you said this was a prioirty….2 weeks on….and here we are talking about the same old problem. Keyword stemming does not help as it locks up toop ranking positions to less companies…..and “exact” land titel matches should get preference over “partial match” title name….then you’ll see moreeleavnt places appearing where they ought to
[11:13]  Medhue Simoni: our businesses are dying
[11:14]  Jolee Baxton: We pay a lot of money, this should be priority
[11:14]  Gregg Barrymore: ::passes jack an asprin::
[11:14]  Master Kane: lol
[11:14]  Master Kane: jack and coke more like it
[11:14]  Zep Palen: passes Jack earplugs
[11:14]  Jack Linden: xstorm, again – that’s really a Q for support, but a ‘region down’ support ticket really will get looked at
[11:14]  kaiya Manbi: since may Medhue – i remember the day search went bad, and my business started to plummet
[11:14]  Sammy Hermit: there is no surport they just close tickets
[11:14]  Bitsy Giano: how come mine don’t get answered?
[11:14]  Sonya Haight: May 5th for me, the upgrade was on the 3rd
[11:14]  Susan Tsuki: I think there’s a legitimate concern that flashy client improvements have put customer service and server enhancements in the back seat
[11:14]  Jack Linden: Jolee.. agreed. And it is. Not sure how else I can say it.. the landlistings (and events) are super high priority. We’re going as fast as we can
[11:14]  Medhue Simoni: Actually this started in april
[11:15]  Master Kane: 24/7 support jack…. why has that gone to the birds?
[11:15]  Jolee Baxton: Have any ideas how small business owners can be shown is search like before?
[11:15]  Sonya Haight: Bitsy you region down ticket didnt’ get answered?
[11:15]  Master Kane: where is our support that we pay for?
[11:15]  Bitsy Giano: nope would have to look at when filed but at least a week ago
[11:15]  Bitsy Giano: I called support they said if I filed a ticket it would get escalated
[11:15]  Sonya Haight: no way I would go for that, you should be on the phone yelling at them
[11:15]  Jolee Baxton: So, Hack..you are saying it will be fixed?
[11:15]  Jolee Baxton: Jack*
[11:15]  Jolee Baxton: sorry
[11:15]  Bitsy Giano: never got anything other then the autmated your issue was received measage
[11:15]  Gregg Barrymore: lol frudin slip
[11:16]  kaiya Manbi: i have called support several times, and filed several tickets, it helps for two days, then it falls right out again
[11:16]  Jack Linden: Susan, it’s rarely the same people on both, so it isn’t a tradeoff we’re making. Most of our resources go onto improvements and fixes, but sometimes we do also get new pieces out.
[11:16]  xstorm Radek: so Jack what you are telling us that there is no one that can help any more and we have to put up with a Ontyne worker that has no clue what a sim is or lag is and they tell us not to bother them to file a Ticket ?
[11:16]  Sonya Haight: ask for tier refund for the time you can’t use the sim too
[11:16]  Medhue Simoni: How long to you think we can last Jack
[11:16]  Master Kane: Agreed Sonya
[11:16]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I have heard that from many people as well, xstorm.
[11:16]  Bitsy Giano: it just has no point
[11:16]  Bitsy Giano: ok I can use the sim
[11:16]  Bitsy Giano: if I can’t get search
[11:16]  Sonya Haight: ahh
[11:16]  Erinyse Planer: or better yet tell us and I quote davidt ontyne “Not our problem”
[11:17]  Jack Linden: xstorm, I’m saying that’s not my department so I don’t have details for you about how things like mainland region restarts are being handled. But I do know that the region down tickets do result in action.
[11:17]  Jolee Baxton: Jack, are you saying search will be fixed for small companies?
[11:17]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Support is not your department, but surely you knew it was going to be reduced?
[11:17]  Master Kane: Jack.. not saying that YOU dont caare.. but anyone with half a brain knows.. taking support away like they have tells even a 10 yr old.. that they dont care
[11:17]  Equinox Pinion: but what about live support closed for a few hours jack?
[11:18]  Equinox Pinion: and you didnt annoucnce it
[11:18]  kaiya Manbi: can we mabe just focus on the search for a few mins, then move on !!!
[11:18]  Pamela Galli: Whose OH do we go to to discuss support?
[11:18]  Zep Palen: LL ways to treat us at the moment is your biggest problems Jack….today I experienced a LL employee set a Jira issue to solved without even knowing what the issue was about…his comment for the status change showed that.
[11:18]  Jack Linden: Jolee, search will be prioritised and worked on continually.. and yes, all areas of search need to be right
[11:18]  xstorm Radek: ok then my next steps are to file Abuse Reports on the Ontyne Support team under the TOS rules
[11:18]  Master Kane: no shit xstorm
[11:18]  Sonya Haight: and the bugs? have they found those and are they working on fixes?
[11:18]  Gregg Barrymore: pssst folks jack doesnt do the support tema lets move on to issues he does do
[11:18]  xstorm Radek: thank you Jack
[11:18]  Pamela Galli: Whose dept. is support?
[11:19]  Jack Linden: Equinox.. I know, but again.. I’m not sure what the situation is around those changes. I don’t think they currently have an office hours
[11:19]  Rene Erlanger: A) Keyword stemming does not help as it locks up top ranking positions to less companies, because by default they get similar rankings for other 2 keyword phrases…..so less visible keyword positions to different companies in any given Market sector…..and B) “Exact matches” Land title matches should get preference over “partial match” Land title name….then you’ll see more releavnt places appearing where they ought to be
[11:19]  Jolee Baxton: Thanks Jack
[11:19]  Susan Tsuki: Jack, from my position as a scripter I’ve just gone through *years* of the announced policy that LSL would be replaced by C# without any concern for backwwards compatability. During that time we’ve seen live help abolished, estate service slashed, and all of the focus seems to have been on this v2 client with dismal adoption rates. How can we reach LL management to ask for a renewed focus on the things your customers actually care about and depend upon?
[11:19]  Bitsy Giano: and if you have information up somewhere on how to get searchable with search as it is… would be nice if someone sent a link because I asked support and they said there was nothing
[11:19]  Equinox Pinion: who can we cantact about it jack
[11:19]  Master Kane: they come to my sim one more time.. I will cal and then express my feelings about unwanted NON Linden people on my sim and then cancel all my stuff!
[11:19]  Lady Sakai: Susan, sendt an email to Philip Linden and let him know about it
[11:19]  Liisa Runo: yes, i also want to know whos the support guy now? cause my support tickets are growing moss already
[11:20]  kaiya Manbi: jack, can u give any kind of indication when u think search can be back to normal, im sure i speak for a few of us, but not many can survive if this goes on much longer!
[11:20]  Jolee Baxton: Yes please
[11:20]  xstorm Radek: seems no point coming to this meeting any more
[11:20]  xstorm Radek: bye
[11:20]  Jack Linden: Susan, I think that’s good feedback and I don’t disagree with the fact that it can feel hard to be heard. I would keep pushing that feedback to us in forums and places like office hours.. we do take it all in even if it feels that it doesn’t get heard
[11:20]  Uni Ninetails: vya Xstorm
[11:20]  Uni Ninetails: cya
[11:20]  Master Kane: Jack -> Do you have any information on the script limits as to when we will start seeing them taking effect? Also, is there a WIKI on it some where that we can read about it and what to expect it to do to those entering a sim/region when they have to many scripts on? Thanks
[11:21]  Master Kane: i didnt see an answer
[11:21]  Gregg Barrymore: good question mk
[11:21]  Lady Sakai: crap Im gonna crash in a few secs *sighs*
[11:21]  Uni Ninetails: Aye script limits info please.
[11:21]  Opensource Obscure: Master Kane: you can find info about that in the wiki – look for Babbage Linden meetings transcripts.
[11:21]  Equinox Pinion: would love to knowthat too master
[11:21]  Jolee Baxton: Holds on to Lady
[11:21]  Ann Otoole: Sea Linden marked a major defect fix pending last night and the commets on the blog were turned off today with a note stating an announcement is pending in a few days
[11:21]  Qie Niangao: Babbage and now Kelly
[11:21]  Master Kane: thats hearsay.. not fact
[11:21]  Ann Otoole: so i guess they are about to roll a fix.
[11:21]  Erinyse Planer: jack what do we do when an entire department refuses REFUSES to hodl their advertise office hours?
[11:21]  Lady Sakai: lol tx Jolee .. but Im affriad that wont help (
[11:22]  Sonya Haight: thanks Ann I missed it
[11:22]  Jack Linden: kaiya, it’s tough to quantify what normal is, but I think that our velocity on search improvements is much higher now than it was 3 months ago. So those big issues are being worked on and resolved one by one
[11:22]  Medhue Simoni: Jack we trusted LL enough to start business, you can’t just screw with search and say will get to it. The trust is basically lost now.
[11:22]  Master Kane: on script kimits ann?
[11:22]  Jolee Baxton: Darn…Hold on tighter.
[11:22]  Master Kane: limits even
[11:22]  Opensource Obscure: what’s hearsay?
[11:22]  Ann Otoole: Sea Linden works on search
[11:22]  Master Kane: oh ok
[11:22]  Pamela Galli: Top result for PREFAB search: STATE OF FASHION – DIONE Fashions- Men’s & Ladies
[11:22]  Rene Erlanger: ought to be fired
[11:22]  Jolee Baxton: What about when you go to “All” and it shows only parcels.
[11:22]  Lady Sakai: Jack fix the GD seach … I cant handle al these people .. plzzz with something nakid on top ???
[11:22]  Jolee Baxton: regions
[11:22]  Liisa Runo: (script limits are on ice with C#. see babbage/kelly logs for more info)
[11:22]  Medhue Simoni: We need office hours just for search and nothing else
[11:23]  Gregg Barrymore whispers: lol day
[11:23]  Sonya Haight: not Bobo’s sex yard Pamela?
[11:23]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Now there is an idea, Med!
[11:23]  Jack Linden: I don’t have a script limits update. Following the company changes we’re still tying down where projects live in terms of priorities. With script limits, there are compelling reasons why we want to do it, but there may be higher priority fixes that come ahead. But we’re still figuring that out.
[11:23]  Jolee Baxton: wb
[11:23]  Erinyse Planer: Wel also need the UI people to show up for thier office hours. its been 7 weeks now
[11:23]  Lady Sakai: I asked that two weeks back Medhue .. so I completely agree !!!
[11:23]  Opensource Obscure: this office hour is astonishing
[11:23]  kaiya Manbi: Jack, this is what scares me, when i hear that the way search is now, is seen as an Improvement — im talking land rental stuff — a listing of regions and avatar names is not an improvement — and falling in and out of search is extremely damaging
[11:23]  Master Kane: oh ffs
[11:23]  Jack Linden: To Liisa’s comment, yeah.. those projects are in flux alittle now while we work it out
[11:23]  Opensource Obscure: thanks Jack! by everybody
[11:24]  Uni Ninetails: byyee!
[11:24]  Sonya Haight: suppose Meshes too are on hold?
[11:24]  Qie Niangao: (actually, Liisa, I think that’s misleading. Script limits are not shelved yet, but C# is pretty officially back-burnered)
[11:24]  Jolee Baxton: I’m out of search, too..unless I pay 50USD for a classified, then no profit.
[11:24]  Master Kane: no… sonya.. that will BRING people in sl… LOL
[11:24]  Gregg Barrymore: 50 usd a wekk?
[11:24]  Sonya Haight: no Jolee, that would be throwing money away, unless it puts you on the front page and that would take a lot more than $50 usd
[11:24]  Jolee Baxton: I’m not upset with you, Jack.. It just seems this should be fixed asap.
[11:25]  Equinox Pinion: did you try to change your settings on the parcels jolee
[11:25]  Bitsy Giano: yes I’ve been forced to put up 20000 L a week classifieds or not be seen
[11:25]  Ann Otoole: some searches produce rather perfect results so the GSA in of itself works fine as long as there is no external influences injected in and/or it is not a word so saturated in SL half of SL wants in the results.
[11:25]  Jolee Baxton: That’s the only way I can get customers
[11:25]  Vryl Valkyrie shouts: Jack, can you please explain why Grant Linden told me he is the product owner of the market place? There has been nothing official posted so I am curious what a product owner is since I assumed that Linden Lab owned XST. Thanks.
[11:25]  Sonya Haight: my 50L one has been the one they occassionally thorw on the front page for a few days, like a teaser
[11:25]  Jack Linden: Sonya, we’re looking at the mesh project and making plans – we’ll be communicating more when we’re clearer on what is happening there.
[11:25]  Bitsy Giano: and then of course no guarantee if sl goes down they will make good on the time I paid for
[11:25]  Jolee Baxton: Then it’s very limited
[11:25]  Bitsy Giano: it did back a couple months ago for 1 day
[11:25]  Bitsy Giano: 40k ad up
[11:25]  Jack Linden: Mesh is very exciting as a proposition but again we have to weigh it against pain points and bugs.
[11:25]  kaiya Manbi is very upset – in 4 years, ups and downs are fine, but this is the worst its ever been
[11:25]  Bitsy Giano: burned
[11:26]  Master Kane: weigh it against script limits jack
[11:26]  APinkSwan Beauchamp agrees with MK
[11:26]  Master Kane: we all KNOW that script limits WILL help everyone.. aposed to meshes
[11:26]  Sonya Haight: aww ok, thanks
[11:26]  Erinyse Planer: JAck: who do we talk to to get the UI team to show up for their advertised office hour, so that the porblems with the ui that hurt business owners, residents, builders, and even lindens can finally get addressed?
[11:26]  Jolee Baxton: Some people are disabled and this is all they have.
[11:26]  Sonya Haight: thats true Kaiya
[11:26]  Pamela Galli: Can we get the JIRAs attended to before we do anything new??
[11:26]  Rene Erlanger: jack…pass this onto Sea Linden —>A) Keyword stemming does not help as it locks up top ranking positions to less companies, because by default they get similar rankings for other 2 keyword phrases…..so less visible keyword positions to different companies in any given Market sector…..and B) “Exact matches” Land title matches should get preference over “partial match” Land title name….then you’ll see more releavnt places appearing where they ought to be C) maybe “Any category” ought ot be killed off and just have individual tabs for searchs – Places-People-Classifieds- Wiki- Groups- Land Sales -
[11:27]  Jack Linden: Vryl, we have a team of people that work on both xstreet and the new Marketplace, and Grant is helping us with the development around Marketplace.
[11:27]  Master Kane: OUCH!
[11:27]  Talarus Luan: Careful, JIRA is also the place for suggesting anything new.
[11:27]  Sammy Hermit looks for a tree to hang from
[11:27]  Jack Linden: Rene, wil copypaste. thanks
[11:27]  Zep Palen: Jack..i have an IMPORTANT question. How many questions in these office hours do you actually see?
[11:27]  Punchie Gumbo: great idea Rene
[11:28]  Master Kane: waits for it…..
[11:28]  kaiya Manbi: Copy past this jack – PLEASE FIX SEARCH
[11:28]  Master Kane:
[11:28]  Pamela Galli: k, can “we” fix what is broken before introducing new (potentially broken) things?
[11:28]  Gregg Barrymore: jack any consideration to levleing or even reducing the tier fees since the world economies are trashed and folks are leaving in droves as they cant afford lots anymore and this combined with the speacial teir deals majopr investors get maiing it harder than heck for us other land owners and rp communities to even break even????
[11:28]  Erinyse Planer: yeah, like fix the 2.1 UI please?
[11:28]  Jack Linden: Zep, as many as I can. I do miss some, it’s tough to type and keep up with the flow
[11:28]  Jolee Baxton: If you can just give your word that search will be fixed properly for everyone, small companies included, that would help.
[11:28]  Sonya Haight: when will the new pricing be announced Jack?
[11:28]  Uni Ninetails: the hell with the 2.1 ui fix mono bug region freeze death
[11:28]  kaiya Manbi: Jolee, yes, thats all i want to hear
[11:28]  Jolee Baxton: I bet it is hard to answer everyone.
[11:29]  Jack Linden: Gregg, I’m afraid we’ve no changes to announce around fees.
[11:29]  Ann Otoole: i requested in jira a shopping domain for SL off secondlife.com. LL made marketplace.secondlife.com. I can convince myself it was because of my jira. but i know it just happened that way so i closed resolved fixed
[11:29]  Medhue Simoni: Jack, parcel names and parcel description seem to have the same relevance as everything else it in search. Those should have much higher relevancies.
[11:29]  kaiya Manbi: and fixed before new things come in and as a top priority
[11:29]  Zep Palen: Jack..i have an eye disease which makes it impossible to follow the chat to see if anything I ask get answered…would it be too much to ask that you made some structure on the meetings when we do the honor to show up?
[11:29]  Qie Niangao: (heh: especially tough to type and watch the flow in Viewer 2, since the goddamn chat history window goes transparent.)
[11:29]  Sammy Hermit: i’m still no better off tha at the start still have no idel when my land will show in search
[11:29]  Jack Linden: Jolee, absolutely. Search is crucial and we’re totally committed to fixing it for everyone
[11:29]  Gregg Barrymore: :: sigh im being forced out of SL::
[11:29]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Jack, Delby was going to be here one of these times to discuss the bulk buying and answer our questions regarding that deal with reduced tier?
[11:29]  Jolee Baxton: Thank you.
[11:29]  Sonya Haight: Uni I think the mono bug is like the search bugs, impossible or they just dont’ know how to fix them.
[11:30]  Talarus Luan: Zep -> turn on your chat to disk and review it later.
[11:30]  Medhue Simoni: Me too Gregg
[11:30]  Jack Linden: Medhue, yes.. as i said, land listings etc are part of the list of work the search team are engaged on
[11:30]  Zep Palen: Talarus..not optional since I would like to reply to some of his answers
[11:30]  Uni Ninetails: Sonya: we got reasons, just no action now. spose the lay offs + restructures buggered it up more.
[11:30]  Talarus Luan: There’s always next meeting.
[11:30]  Sonya Haight: I think so
[11:30]  Erinyse Planer: Im sick of trying to menor new users that get 2.0 or 2.1 and then cant find anything, and then wind up goingand getting the 1.4 viewer. its kinda rediculous people cant even find the FILE menu
[11:30]  Sonya Haight: feels like it buggered up a lot
[11:31]  Qie Niangao: (Talarus: or tail -f )
[11:31]  Master Kane: hell.. i am one of the low men on the totem pole and I am even thinking about leaving .. 1) No 24/7 support no more 2) Leck of interest for peoples ideas on v2 3) important bugs older than 3 yrs old being put on hold for some lindens/programmers “BABY”
[11:31]  Gregg Barrymore: very well then im done here gues si best go prepare my lands on the os grid for moving in ::sigh::
[11:31]  Erinyse Planer: i hear that gregg
[11:31]  Jack Linden: APinkSwan, yeah.. we know we need to talk about that – when we have solid information to present to you we will. Meantime, you should absolutely contact us if you want to bulk purchase and need some gudance
[11:31]  Sonya Haight: the babies have been put on hold MK, least it sounds like it
[11:31]  Jack Linden: *guidance
[11:32]  Master Kane: no yet sonya
[11:32]  Erinyse Planer: sonay you havent been to enough of the other office hours then
[11:32]  Sonya Haight: will we a blog post on pricing this month Jack?
[11:32]  Erinyse Planer: cause they arent
[11:32]  Master Kane: meshes are going through… script limits arent
[11:32]  Susan Tsuki: I think the volunteer corps should be re-instated. They and the NCI were happy to do first-level support and make official LL support earlier in return for a group tag to brag about. I can’t believe that free labor was jettisoned
[11:32]  Uni Ninetails: on the shelf. like region windlight. which is like being teased by some eprvert with a lollypop. its done its passed QA but you cant have it.
[11:32]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I don’t really want guidance, per se, but rather how a deal such as that helped any of the smaller land owners….:)
[11:32]  Sonya Haight: they’re still going Erinyse?
[11:32]  Pamela Galli: No more babies til you can support the ones you already have
[11:32]  Bitsy Giano: Jack basically my purpose is not to particpate in a bitch fest but stress how dire the situaltion is, I’ve known a number of builders shut down in the last week who have been here for years, years before I even joined, this doesn’t benefit us or Linden Labs
[11:32]  Jack Linden: Sonya, not sure exactly when that will land. We know it’s overdue though.
[11:32]  Sonya Haight: he said Meshes are on hold too
[11:32]  Rene Erlanger: Jack ….given the state of the SL econony and the reducing concurrencies….would LL ever entertain revisiting their Land & SIM prciing structure? What would set off alram bells to the Lab?
[11:32]  Equinox Pinion: and who can we cantact if we want build purchases?
[11:32]  Talarus Luan: Uni-> (((
[11:32]  Susan Tsuki: make offical LL support easier* (and earlier, too, I suppose, because of their gate-keeping effect)
[11:32]  Equinox Pinion: buil even
[11:32]  Equinox Pinion: bulk geez
[11:32]  Jack Linden: Bitsy, understood. We see it too
[11:32]  Master Kane: I may be joining you sooner that I mentioned earlier gregg.. by the looks of all this
[11:33]  Erinyse Planer: Jack, im asking again, who do we contact to get the UI team to SHOW UP at their office hour?
[11:33]  Uni Ninetails: sory Tal im just jaded. all fun stuff i want needs on the shelf fix the basics. fix friggin mono. and everything else people are crying out for.
[11:33]  Gregg Barrymore: aye mk appaerntly Ll cant see the forrest is loosing all its trees cause of lack of rain
[11:33]  Talarus Luan: Oh, I understand. That’s a “feature” I want as well. :-/
[11:34]  Jack Linden: Rene, it’s not about alarm bells as such. Pricing is obviously complex as it underpins just about everything. So changing pricing is not trivial for us. We’re always reviewing it, and always looking at ways we can improve things.
[11:34]  Talarus Luan: So I empathize.
[11:34]  Master Kane: or they are pulling the wrong leaves off and causeni it to die
[11:34]  Uni Ninetails nods to Tal “jack himself there said its done. its torture.
[11:34]  Qie Niangao: Jack, there is too much confusion here about what’s on-hold and what’s shelved and what’s cancelled and what’s being prioritized… we *really* need a clear expression of what the plans are, and *soon*
[11:34]  Uni Ninetails: Agreed
[11:34]  Jack Linden: Erinyse, I’ll ask the team about office hours. I’m not sure what their plans are there
[11:34]  Uni Ninetails: Tell that to phil
[11:34]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Excellent, Qie.
[11:34]  Bitsy Giano: then please, stess to them improvements don’t have these results, roll it back
[11:35]  Erinyse Planer: well 7 weeks of having them posted and 20+ avatars there to talk to them and the team REFUSING to show up is getting old JAck
[11:35]  Sonya Haight: I agree with Bitsy, 3 months is a bit too long to play with us
[11:35]  Talarus Luan: They do in the LL dictionary, just like [RESOLVED]
[11:35]  Erinyse Planer: realy really really old
[11:35]  Jack Linden: Qie, agreed. We need to have that roadmap nailed ourselves though, before we fall into the trap of giving dates and deliverables out.
[11:35]  Bitsy Giano: People need to regain faith in stability of the system, even if they do find us they won’t spend right now
[11:35]  Medhue Simoni: Well, jack, soon we’ll not afford them, so you will be force to adjust the prices.
[11:35]  Jolee Baxton: I appreciate the announcement when logging in about renting land from other residents but it’s done well, could we have something a bit better?
[11:35]  Lady Sakai: Medhue, we cant afford them now
[11:35]  Talarus Luan: I don’t want dates, per se, I just wanna know what I can expect and plan for long-term.
[11:35]  Jolee Baxton: not done well*
[11:36]  Bitsy Giano: and I’m not saying all of that is in your hands, or that LL has not tried to make some efforts to repair damage done
[11:36]  Uni Ninetails: Jack. we want facts dont need dates.
[11:36]  Jayson Dorn: Jack it seems clear to me that as LL can’t offer compensation, reduce the tiers or any other such thing. I’ve been in business a long time and you don’t let go a third of the staff and cut all but esential services if you aren’t in a cash crunch..if the land owner businesses all start crashing the ripple affect is going to be dramatic
[11:36]  Bitsy Giano: I’ve seen it they have
[11:36]  Jack Linden: Jolee, have you seen much impact from the MOTD?
[11:36]  Susan Tsuki: if there was as much work on the server code as there has been on the client, virtualization could swap out the vast majority of idle regions when nobody is in them… that could have huge pricing implications, not to mention energy efficiency
[11:36]  Jolee Baxton: No
[11:36]  Master Kane: Personally… I think our tiers should be lowered due to the fact that we do NOT (****NOT***) hve 24/7 support now… put that in the suggestion box < JACK
[11:36]  Talarus Luan: Even just a “near-, medium-, long-term” classification is good enough for me.
[11:36]  Bitsy Giano: we don’t have 24/7 support?
[11:36]  Master Kane: no
[11:36]  Medhue Simoni: the Motd did seem like a nice gesture, I don’t sell land tho, lol
[11:36]  Jack Linden: Master, I’ll pass that feedback on.
[11:36]  Master Kane: rad the website
[11:37]  Master Kane: read even
[11:37]  Talarus Luan: I don’t think there is such a think as an “idle region”.
[11:37]  Erinyse Planer: hell, we dont even have support now. if you talk to an Ontyne all they say is “File a support ticket” or “Not my problem”
[11:37]  Talarus Luan: *thing
[11:37]  Bitsy Giano: I guess I hate reading those boards
[11:37]  Sassy Romano: Define “idle” Susan, what about vendor servers for example, other objects etc that need to be live
[11:37]  Jack Linden: regions with no avatars still often have scripted systems that need to be running.
[11:37]  Bitsy Giano: to much like a bitch fest, I see little productive on them
[11:37]  kaiya Manbi: Its all great that it advertises renting land from residents, but whats the use if half of us can no longer be found in search
[11:37]  Master Kane: not forums bisty hun… the HELP page on the right
[11:37]  Jack Linden: we have looked at virtualisation, and continue to do so.. but there are a lot of challenges there
[11:37]  Sonya Haight: live chat hours are from 8 to midnight M-F and 8 to 8 on weekends now Bitsy
[11:37]  Erinyse Planer: I even told an Ontyne WORD FOR WORD what I was told to by Soft Linden, and the jerk told me, We can’t do that.
[11:38]  Bitsy Giano: can’t call concierge after hours?
[11:38]  Lady Sakai: Jack, I have rental homes and stores to help support a non-profit comunity region … we dont have any way cept seach to advertise …. We are now inches away from shutting down …. PLZ will you consider some help for the HOME rentals in SL
[11:38]  Sonya Haight: and then you will probably get an Ontyne
[11:38]  Zep Palen: jack regions with zero avatars goes idle as it is now right?
[11:38]  Uni Ninetails: Poor Phils got his work cut out.
[11:38]  Master Kane: oh.. one more things… with “Support” I am NOT talking ontymes or what ever either
[11:38]  Sonya Haight: no Bitsy, you get a recording about the hours
[11:38]  Master Kane: they dont know shit
[11:38]  Jack Linden: Zep, no. they continue to run
[11:38]  Alexxa Despres: tell us how you really feel MK ))
[11:38]  Master Kane: i said my peace…waiting
[11:38]  Qie Niangao: (it would take a lot of dev work, but yeah: could shift low-load sims to more per core until there was demand.)
[11:38]  Jack Linden: Lady, send me details on the situation.
[11:38]  Susan Tsuki: true, but there are opportunities to virtualize regions in proportion to the amount of CPU they are actually using. It’s a classic timesharing problem and I hope it gets worked on
[11:38]  Master Kane: oh.. you really wan tto know?
[11:38]  Lady Sakai: ok….tx jack
[11:38]  Alexxa Despres: I was kidding
[11:38]  Equinox Pinion: they cannot do that zep…the region still could have verdor servers on it which have to run
[11:38]  Master Kane:
[11:38]  Zep Palen: Jack since when are empty regions still running?
[11:39]  Master Kane: Ill save that for my blog… Iwhich i need to tend to…
[11:39]  Jack Linden: Susan, yeah I’m certainly not saying there aren’t ways to do stuff there.
[11:39]  Susan Tsuki: they’re right, Zep, scripts need to run, but the 1:4 constant mapping of regions to CPUs needs to be mutable
[11:39]  Jack Linden: Zep, regions don’t stop when you leave them
[11:39]  Jolee Baxton: Do you have any suggestions on how we can up our traffic in the meantime?
[11:39]  Gregg Barrymore: this kinda reminds me of the commercial where the guys asks why the other business is getting all their former customers
[11:40]  Talarus Luan: It’s a bit more complex than simply installing some virtualization software layer and letting it rip
[11:40]  Master Kane: lol gregg
[11:40]  Zep Palen: Thats why I ask when that changed
[11:40]  Zep Palen: back in 2007 – 2008 I experienced many tiems sims went idle…and I was not the only one
[11:40]  Jack Linden: Zep, it’s always been this way. regions run regardless of people being on them
[11:40]  Susan Tsuki: true, but I’m just saying that even a small amount of progress in decoupling regions from physical CPUs could have huge pricing and efficiency implications
[11:40]  Zep Palen: ok..then it have just not always been working right ?
[11:41]  Khamon Fate: Sims already operate much like virtual machines. What Qie said about packing idle ones more per core is probably the best route.
[11:41]  Gregg Barrymore: once we are gone we wont be coming back and the root of sl’s varity and creativness that made it what it is will be lost forever
[11:41]  Erinyse Planer: zep when has ANYTHING in sl worked right?
[11:41]  Talarus Luan: It does, but considering the resources at LL right now, that’s probably a permanent “pony list” item.
[11:41]  Pamela Galli: So, then, will there ever be Commerce OH again?
[11:41]  Jolee Baxton: Jack, do you have any suggestions on how we can up our traffic while we wait for search to be fixed?
[11:41]  Talarus Luan: It would require a total rewrite of the underlying infrastructure to support.
[11:41]  Erinyse Planer: Pamela: of course, the next time they have another bad idea to shove down our throats
[11:42]  Master Kane: which is when.. tomorrow??
[11:42]  Uni Ninetails: V2.2 with smellovision!
[11:42]  Gregg Barrymore: aol made the same mistakes and look at them now
[11:42]  Susan Tsuki: “load balancing” is probably a better term than “virtualization” since the latter implies swapping things all the way out, I suppose. Sorry.
[11:42]  Sonya Haight: I thought thats when they hid Erinyse?
[11:42]  Pamela Galli: In the middle of some big new Marketplace migration and we are so clueless we are just sitting there wondering what we need to do.
[11:42]  Jack Linden: Pamela, I’m not sure. The team are heads down to get Marketplace smooth.. maybe we’ll start looking at office hours once we’re past the crunch
[11:42]  Pamela Galli: ty
[11:42]  Pamela Galli: but the crunch is what we need info on
[11:42]  Master Kane: heads down… you heard it… they are sleeping again
[11:43]  Talarus Luan: Coding in their sleep?
[11:43]  Jack Linden: Master, man.. ouch.
[11:43]  Master Kane: scary huh
[11:43]  Khamon Fate: Y’all need to forget Search viability and find other ways to promote your operations.
[11:43]  Master Kane: JK Jack
[11:43]  Erinyse Planer: they should scrap marketplace. its all around horibly designed, horribly priced, and set up so only those like anshe can actually get any sort of exposure
[11:43]  Medhue Simoni: made me laugh
[11:43]  Sonya Haight: a little more info would be nice there, so we know what we need to do and when to do it, after all with no search marketplace may be all we have left after we return our empty sims.
[11:43]  Pamela Galli: amen Khamon
[11:43]  Master Kane: playing is all… HEY.. they have to sleep too ya know!
[11:43]  Bitsy Giano: basically if that goes live, thats my only form of income left…
[11:43]  Khamon Fate: ha ha ha I can’t figure out where to get a box for the new Marketplace.
[11:43]  Erinyse Planer: oh wait, thats right LL designed marketplace around anshe
[11:43]  Jack Linden: Sonya, I’ll talk to the team about more info for merchants that are not in the beta
[11:43]  Bitsy Giano: I’ll likely be forced into closing
[11:44]  Sonya Haight: thanks
[11:44]  Erinyse Planer: when xstreet closes, im NOT moving to marketplace
[11:44]  Talarus Luan: yeah, we should all have learned by now that the thing that defines success in SL is working around the roadblocks, idiosynchrasies, and limitations that LL throws in front of us. <.<
[11:44]  Bitsy Giano: well that beta was supposed to feed all our stuff in and be realistic I thought?
[11:44]  Jolee Baxton: Jack, do you think Marketplace will be fixed to advertise before search is?
[11:44]  Gregg Barrymore: ahh yes after many of us leave to the os sims this will be called anshe land
[11:44]  Sassy Romano: Jack, they may be heads down with “Marketplace” but they’re forgetting the reason marketplace exists. Without a successful migration that includes the stakeholders interests (that’s us), then they are not executing the project properly! Engage with the major stakeholders please, we need to plan too.
[11:44]  Erinyse Planer: im not giving LL more money to be used to promote Anshe and her little group of elite bitches
[11:44]  Medhue Simoni: Bitsy, sad thing is that is has nothing to do with us or our products.
[11:44]  Bitsy Giano: the home page ads being gone with nothing but that scrolll list render advertising there useless
[11:44]  Khamon Fate: The thing that defines success in SL is appealing to the newbies. We only need LL marketing to concentrate on bringing in the newbies.
[11:44]  Medhue Simoni: That we can fix.
[11:45]  Uni Ninetails: jolee: it shows you how much work you gonna have to do *shudders at the thought XD
[11:45]  Master Kane: isnt it already, gregg….
[11:45]  Bitsy Giano: no one will scroll through a list of 1000s to find you
[11:45]  Susan Tsuki: Khamon, I’m hopping that search will get the attention it deserves, because the “other ways to promote” often end up being disturbing, i.e., advert prims on every for sale parcel and legions of traffic bots distorting rl user representation on the maps
[11:45]  Alexxa Despres: I agree Khamon!
[11:45]  Jack Linden: Jolee, we are looking to get the advertising piece fully up to speed soon. Marketplace actually uses a different search than the main inworld one
[11:45]  Alexxa Despres: and getting them to STICK!
[11:45]  Bitsy Giano: I won’t anyway when shopping
[11:45]  Erinyse Planer: and im not gonna pay a fee to give people free stuff
[11:45]  Zep Palen: The marketplace is worthless since LL have decided that some missing functions are “expected behavior”…and those are some REALLY important once in fact
[11:45]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: As I asked a few weeks ago about where V2 fit in on the list of viewers, I am hoping you will have that info again in a few weeks with the rollout of the latest, Jack. Just a head’s up, as that information can also be very telling and important.
[11:45]  Bitsy Giano: lol I don’t give people free stuff!!!
[11:45]  Master Kane: i mean… even jack knows.. if he searches for anshe… what pops up… NOTHING BUT anshe
[11:45]  Master Kane: )
[11:45]  Erinyse Planer: I do bitsy. Demos and stuff
[11:46]  Erinyse Planer: i wont make someoen pay for a demo
[11:46]  Master Kane: yah thats just stupid
[11:46]  Erinyse Planer: and its REDICULOUS that merchants have to
[11:46]  Bitsy Giano: no I don’t do demos I just give a link to my lot to view builds in person
[11:46]  Jolee Baxton: Jack, just wondering your take on if Marketplace is more imprtant than search
[11:46]  Jolee Baxton: important*
[11:46]  Erinyse Planer: but hair, cloathing, skin, and accessory peope have to have demos bitsy
[11:47]  Pamela Galli: Marketplace IS the main search for many if not most
[11:47]  Bitsy Giano: true
[11:47]  Medhue Simoni: That is the crazy part Jack, both our revenue streams are in flux
[11:47]  Bitsy Giano: I guess I’m sorta shop in person for some stuff
[11:47]  Medhue Simoni: Do you really need to do both at the same time?
[11:47]  Bitsy Giano: depends what it is
[11:47]  Pamela Galli: I would never use inworld search
[11:47]  Susan Tsuki: the attempt to monopolize external marketplaces was a disaster; all of that effort would have been better served by building such functions into internal search where LL already has a monopoly
[11:47]  Pamela Galli: I want a pic of the thing
[11:47]  Master Kane: hi sera
[11:47]  Pamela Galli: then go see it
[11:47]  Jack Linden: Jolee, the two are separate teams and skill sets so it’s not an either/or deal. Search is obvious critical to finding stuff – a good Marketplace is vital for merchants and shoppers who want to buy/sell on the web
[11:47]  Uni Ninetails: “see item in secondlife” ill never buy id off xstreet unless nessesary. i like to give the creator all the $$
[11:47]  Erinyse Planer: and it if you have say 200 items thats $50 usd a month. for the priveldge of handing out demos
[11:48]  Jolee Baxton: Sigh
[11:48]  Master Kane: excaatly uni
[11:48]  Pamela Galli: I put a note saying that since delivery is so unreliable, buy it inworld
[11:48]  Sassy Romano: the marketplace will not be “good” if the merchants aren’t part of it, major part of any project plan, engage with the major stakeholders… US
[11:48]  Zep Palen: Jack it is not a good marketplace for merchants if you make it harder for us to use it
[11:48]  APinkSwan Beauchamp agrees with Uni
[11:48]  Pamela Galli: but they find it on Xstreet
[11:48]  Sonya Haight: I agree with Uni too
[11:48]  Khamon Fate: That’s not entirely true Jack. Many people use the marketplace search to find products that they then buy inworld.
[11:48]  Uni Ninetails: dont wanna pay for a demo on xstree? place a simple comment “Demo available in world”
[11:48]  Khamon Fate: Inworld search is already depreciated to that extent
[11:49]  Jack Linden: Zep, as it’s a beta, we’re steadily improving all aspects of it. Ultimately it *will* be a huge improvement over xstreet
[11:49]  Gregg Barrymore: ::lol slex worked fine and was very succesful:: why spend money fixing something that wasnt broke?
[11:49]  Master Kane: doesnt slx still take a % of your sales? or did they scrap that when LL took it over
[11:49]  Jack Linden: Khamon, true.. that’s another use case
[11:49]  Uni Ninetails: still take a bite
[11:49]  Khamon Fate: Many merchants have resorted to advertising on popular blogs, posting pictures to SL Universe, and such to advertise rather than using the inworld serach mechanism.
[11:49]  Sassy Romano: Wait Jack, how is it being improved, NOBODY is telling us anything, this is my point, engage engage please
[11:49]  Master Kane: what i thought
[11:49]  Bitsy Giano: we can hope but I emplore you don’t take our forms of marketing on there that are good on xstreet away
[11:49]  Erinyse Planer: marketplace and the 2.1 viewer were two very stupid projects that were shoved on the residents and merchants and we were told, everyone loves them. well reality is we dont
[11:49]  Master Kane: point made
[11:49]  Zep Palen: Jack..not true…i have mentioned why several times today…but you havent seen it yet because you dont see all questions/statements
[11:49]  Bitsy Giano: home page ads are HIGHLY effective
[11:50]  Jolee Baxton: I’m trying to figure out how difficult it is to put land on xstreet.
[11:50]  Khamon Fate: Search itself is becoming a non-use case. Y’all may never recover that from a marketing perspective.
[11:50]  Khamon Fate: It’ll of course always work for groups and profiles at least.
[11:50]  Erinyse Planer: and now that osgrid and citygrid and citylife are ALL transitioing from beta to live…. LL is gonna die if it keeps burrying its head in the sand
[11:50]  Jolee Baxton: I know this must be overwhelming for you, Jack and again, I’m not upset with you personally.
[11:50]  Khamon Fate: But you don’t do Search do you? Why are we talking about that here?
[11:50]  Uni Ninetails: ill state this fact. i NEVER use search not for over a year.
[11:51]  Master Kane: maybe LL will sale all the SANDY sim soon
[11:51]  Qie Niangao: Oh, that reminds me: Ciaran claims (http://www.your2ndplace.com/node/1820) that the Mature Content checkbox doesn’t mean anything anymore. Is this true? and if so, why aren’t people screaming?
[11:51]  Erinyse Planer: and citylife is already close to what LL can offer, and its cheaper, more stable, and more user friendly
[11:51]  Jack Linden: oh it’s fine jolee.. I want to keep listening and answering what i can.
[11:51]  kaiya Manbi: but newbies do uni
[11:51]  Susan Tsuki: Pam, that’s because xstreet has a direct incentive to do the best search, while I suspect inside LL search is more of an afterthought. The problem is that the most obvious goal to LL is commerce in general, which is so easy to see as more important than the customer satisfaction which drives it
[11:51]  Sammy Hermit: Jack’s a brit we can take it lol
[11:51]  Bitsy Giano: ultimately there isn’t words that make it right, making it work again will
[11:51]  Uni Ninetails: fair point
[11:51]  Jolee Baxton: lol..
[11:51]  Jack Linden: hehe Sammy
[11:51]  Medhue Simoni: Yes Qie, that is also my observation
[11:52]  Qie Niangao: that should make Mature land pretty unattractive for businesses, no?
[11:52]  Sonya Haight: Khamon he is over search
[11:52]  Gregg Barrymore: ::jack a bit of advise get the ol resume out as many os grids are getting ready to impliment physics and well SL and its pricing will go the way of other blind dinosuars like aol and there.com::
[11:52]  Pamela Galli: Kill search if you must, but please don’t kill Xstreet functionality too
[11:52]  Jolee Baxton: Jayson, you look like Jack’s bodyguard.
[11:52]  Medhue Simoni: Yep, i ask to change my land to G, but support said NO
[11:52]  Jolee Baxton: Just saying
[11:53]  Sonya Haight: hehe I thought that when Jack first showed up Jolee
[11:53]  Khamon Fate: There’s plenty of cheap G land for sale Medhue.
[11:53]  Talarus Luan: Getting ready to implement physics? O.o That’s kinda like a fundamental prerequisiste.
[11:53]  Erinyse Planer: Gregg some already have
[11:53]  kaiya Manbi: me too ?
[11:53]  Alexxa Despres: SUPER SIM!!!!!! Sorry… just had the urge to say it, Jack
[11:53]  Jolee Baxton: LOL..Sonya
[11:53]  Equinox Pinion: lol alexxa
[11:53]  Alexxa Despres:
[11:53]  Uni Ninetails: no comments on bulk homestead tiers? *ducks
[11:53]  Medhue Simoni: I also notice that no G lands were being dropped from search
[11:53]  Gregg Barrymore: ageeed erin but some are going to more adanced that will rival SL
[11:53]  Jack Linden: hehe Alexxa, where’s Drift when you need him?
[11:54]  Sonya Haight: yeah need that Supersim answer for Driftwood
[11:54]  Erinyse Planer: citylife is finallizing its version of xstreetsl. when its doen they go live
[11:54]  Master Kane props head up with left hand on desk
[11:54]  Alexxa Despres:
[11:54]  Khamon Fate: gee whiz Uni, it was all going so well.
[11:54]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Asked, Uni, but not really answered this time around…:)
[11:54]  Jack Linden: one day i’m going to surprise drift with a spec.
[11:54]  Uni Ninetails: ah okies
[11:54]  kaiya Manbi: whats G land?
[11:54]  Talarus Luan: So, Jack, how about those Microparcels? I keep waiting for Luke Linden to step out of the shadows any minute.
[11:54]  Gregg Barrymore: the days of king of the hill with no competion are gon
[11:54]  kaiya Manbi: PG?
[11:54]  Jolee Baxton: G rated
[11:54]  Master Kane: g, pg, m, a
[11:54]  Bitsy Giano: the benefits of islands
[11:54]  Erinyse Planer: their costs are like 1/4th of SL. their customer support is like SL’s was back when Joppa, teagan and Twilight pretty much handeled it all
[11:54]  Bitsy Giano: can change rating
[11:55]  Erinyse Planer: (aka excellent)
[11:55]  kaiya Manbi: oh well, then it is dropping, one of mine is PG and thats the one in and out all the time
[11:55]  Bitsy Giano: very little lag
[11:55]  Erinyse Planer: I have the feeeling when it goes live, SL will go under
[11:55]  Sera Lok: yes, my PG parcel gets dropped as well
[11:55]  Bitsy Giano: and oh ya neighbors wierd stuff doesn’t ruin presentation!!
[11:55]  Master Kane: lol bisty.. yah.. no sex on them huh lol
[11:55]  Susan Tsuki: and now for something politically radical: Who agrees that re-instating a small stipend to all free accounts — perhaps paid for by a small transaction tax on say the wealthiest 1% of avatars — would result in a net commerce stimulus (Keynes versus Friedman for the economists….)
[11:55]  Medhue Simoni: Not nice to know Sera
[11:55]  Erinyse Planer: wouldnt work susan
[11:56]  Bitsy Giano: lol I just warn people I catch ya at it I’ll toss ya
[11:56]  Equinox Pinion: susan..which party are you in LOL
[11:56]  Sera Lok: Jack, is there an indication on how long Xstreet will continue to be the main online shopping resource? (sorry if already asked, i need notes)
[11:56]  Susan Tsuki: well why not, Erinyse?
[11:56]  Rene Erlanger: lol susan…don’t make this RL with all this taxation nonsense
[11:56]  Khamon Fate: LL could bypass the middleman and just give the merchants the stipends directly
[11:56]  Sonya Haight: Kaiya my pg full sim is the one thats never in search, the pg hs that doens’t have the store on it is the one thats dropping in and out and the full I’ve now changed to mature but its made no difference
[11:56]  Jack Linden: Susan, a prosperity tax? that would be an interesting one
[11:56]  Uni Ninetails: Told ya we need MaggieThatcher Linden
[11:56]  Master Kane: damn susan… you ARE wanting to kill sl arent you
[11:56]  Qie Niangao: wealthiest? My banker alt never buys anything. :p
[11:56]  Talarus Luan: Why tax? LL can pay it out of the Lindex volume.
[11:56]  Jack Linden: Not sure how that would go down
[11:56]  Rene Erlanger: once it starts they’ll be adding taxes left right and centrea
[11:56]  Equinox Pinion: <looks at jack> did you take something
[11:56]  Bitsy Giano: lol don’t we sorta give you guys enough yet?
[11:56]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I don’t think that would go down very well…lol
[11:56]  Erinyse Planer: its been done on similar platofrms. it simply doesnt provide enough of a real change in buying power
[11:57]  Medhue Simoni: Sorry Jack we pay you enough.
[11:57]  Jack Linden: stipends to basics is so easily games though.
[11:57]  kaiya Manbi: yep, my mature ones are no where to be found, the PG one pops in search for a day or so every 10 days
[11:57]  Jack Linden: *gamed
[11:57]  Talarus Luan: Repeat: So, Jack, how about those Microparcels? I keep waiting for Luke Linden to step out of the shadows any minute.
[11:57]  Master Kane: yeah and think of all the stupdi griefers that would suck that shit up
[11:57]  Jolee Baxton: Why can’t we get some kind of break with tier, free Advertising, refunds..
[11:57]  Khamon Fate: Philip could hand out a one time stimulus stipend to welcome himself back.
[11:57]  Erinyse Planer: what happens, say you give Free accounts a stipend of 300… then the paids get 600. Everyne just rasises their price 300
[11:57]  Qie Niangao: lol Talarus… Luke is so *coy*
[11:57]  Equinox Pinion: tal..here you are!
[11:57]  Bitsy Giano: I just can’t see why anyone would buy with usd vs linden on xstreet looking at that rate diff
[11:57]  Erinyse Planer: boom the economy goes back to stagnation
[11:57]  Jack Linden: okay guys, Tal has said the magic words ‘microparcel’, which is my cue to run to my next meeting.
[11:57]  Talarus Luan: I have always been here.
[11:58]  Equinox Pinion: lol
[11:58]  Alexxa Despres: Way to go Tal
[11:58]  Alexxa Despres: <<kidding
[11:58]  Sera Lok: fix the linden rate on Xstreet, the conversion! please!
[11:58]  Master Kane: oh thanks tal lol jk
[11:58]  Uni Ninetails: next meeting = im going doon the pub.
[11:58]  Susan Tsuki: out of the lindex volume would be inflationary and therefore as regressive as any flat tax, but what I’m saying is that the demand-side is far more important than the supply-side in SL too
[11:58]  Alexxa Despres: Thanks Jack…. see you next week!
[11:58]  Jack Linden: (Tal, I’m not sure where support are with that, but last time i looked there were very few left)
[11:58]  Talarus Luan: Yeah, you run, you Sion Chicken.
[11:58]  Qie Niangao: thanks Jack.
[11:58]  Jack Linden: cheers folks!
[11:58]  Medhue Simoni: cya next week jack, if I’m still alive here.
[11:58]  Jolee Baxton: Thank you, Jack.
[11:58]  Sera Lok: mrerr!
[11:58]  Sammy Hermit: TY Jack
[11:58]  Lady Sakai: cheers jack
[11:58]  Uni Ninetails: ty Jack have a nice pint
[11:58]  kaiya Manbi: thanks jack
[11:58]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Thanks, Jack
[11:58]  Equinox Pinion: take care jack!
[11:58]  Master Kane: thanks jack
[11:58]  Drongle McMahon: Next time, Talarus, say it at the beginning.
[11:58]  Talarus Luan: I need to ask earlier in the meeting.. give you a bit of a break.
[11:58]  Alexxa Despres: Bye all…have a great weekend!
[11:58]  Equinox Pinion: LOL!
[11:59]  Equinox Pinion: take care all
[11:59]  Sonya Haight: Serra you have the log?
[11:59]  Medhue Simoni: good luck every1
[11:59]  Sammy Hermit: not sure why i’m thanking him i’m still not in search lol
[11:59]  Sera Lok: no i need it
[11:59]  Master Kane: later all… have a good day… or try
[11:59]  Jolee Baxton: Yes, good luck.
[11:59]  kaiya Manbi: sammy, LOL Me too
[11:59]  Talarus Luan: Luke needs to be taken out back and shot.
[11:59]  Susan Tsuki: Erinyse, if prices go up but commerce goes up too, is that a net negative?

[11:00]  Driftwood Miles: Hello Jack
[11:01]  Lady Sakai: Hi Jack
[11:01]  Joshe Darkstone: ok, loud cough just then, sum1s mic is live
[11:01]  Equinox Pinion: hi jack
[11:01]  Qie Niangao: greetings, Jack.
[11:01]  Jack Linden: hey everyone
[11:01]  Bronson Blackadder: HiJack?
[11:01]  Jolee Baxton: Hi Jack
[11:01]  Marianne McCann: Hey Jack
[11:01]  Bronson Blackadder: this plane is going to libya
[11:01]  Alexxa Despres: Hello Jack
[11:01]  Serra Anansi: Morning Jack
[11:01]  Timothy Maximus: hey jack
[11:01]  Uni Ninetails snerks Hijack… ouch…
[11:01]  Lorac Cleanslate: Good Morning Everyone
[11:01]  Lady Sakai: Lorac:)
[11:01]  Melody Regent: Hello Jack, I am going to get right to the point today since I know alot of people have questions.
[11:02]  Melody Regent: ***** JACK, Last week you were asked loads of times if there was going to be any refund or compensation for people because your system was screwed up and it was us that were paying the price. Each and every time, you ignored the question. So I am asking you again this week with the hope that I will not be as blatantly ignored as all the others last week were. Is there any plan in the works for compensating the people that pay for Linden Labs services that they are not getting? *****
[11:02]  Shila Szondi: whitestag your mic is on
[11:02]  Jack Linden: wow, hello Melody!
[11:02]  Joshe Darkstone: hi jack, nice curve ball yesterday – any idea what id like to talk about today?
[11:02]  Nber Medici: Morning Jack
[11:02]  Luna Cartier: I’d like to hear an answer for Melody
[11:02]  Shila Szondi: yes as would I
[11:02]  Uni Ninetails: Here here
[11:03]  Charlene Trudeau: hiya, Uni and everyone
[11:03]  Whitestag Gothly: Sheila me mic is always on : )
[11:03]  Lady Sakai: Jack, I dont mean to be rude or ignorant about the seach problems, but any chance the Seach Team aka Sea Linden could get their own OH Maybe ?? pretty please ?
[11:03]  Jack Linden: Sorry Melody, wasn’t meaning to ignore. Just tough to type and read so much stuff so quickly. We have no plans to offer compensation for the search bug etc
[11:03]  Joshe Darkstone: whitestag could you pls close your mic?
[11:03]  Melody Regent: It was asked like 30 times, Jack. It was ignored
[11:03]  Equinox Pinion: Jack, are you aware that your great viewer 2 sometimes doesnt let people buy land?
[11:03]  Marianne McCann: Noisy mic is noisy
[11:03]  Lady Sakai: oh damn Im gonna craaash again (((
[11:04]  Joshe Darkstone grabs a leg and keeps lady anchored to the ground
[11:04]  Uni Ninetails: cam at the floor
[11:04]  Sonya Haight throws Lady a rope
[11:04]  Lady Sakai cams at the floor hoping and praying
[11:04]  Zep Palen: Does this meeting have some kind of structure so that we dont speak in each others mouths?
[11:04]  Timothy Maximus: Jack, will the new search release address the maturity ratings bug?
[11:04]  Shila Szondi: Jack I would like to know when you are going to announce the grandfather pricing
[11:04]  Jack Linden: So Search.. any moment now, in the next half hour or so, the latest search fixes should go live
[11:05]  Luna Cartier: and those are?
[11:05]  Timothy Maximus: will they solve the maturity ratings bug?
[11:05]  Jack Linden: Some folks saw that briefly earlier while we were testing
[11:05]  Ciaran Laval: Picks don’t count anymore and the bug is supposed to be fixed
[11:05]  Uni Ninetails: didnt they remove picks as a search factor?
[11:05]  Uni Ninetails nods
[11:05]  Bitsy Giano: oh goodie drama thats NOT MINE
[11:05]  Alexxa Despres: That was the FIX?
[11:05]  Jack Linden: There will be a blog post with the release notes in.. a bunch of stuff going into this update
[11:05]  Timothy Maximus: including a fix for the maturity ratings bug?
[11:05]  Joshe Darkstone: so jack theres that, im interested in and answer to mels question as well, show in search doesnt seem to mean show in search anymore. but id also like to know who ddecided that since you cant seem to fix the bug with profiles you should come up with some lame excuse to remove a feature that has been used for years to kbuild businesses? that would be the picks issue
[11:06]  Shila Szondi: Why are the lindens delaying the real estate section of the new marketplace, Once again making it harder on land owners
[11:06]  Whitestag Gothly: I think it was Melody because they are not gonna compensate lol
[11:06]  Melody Regent: I have two other questions I want to ask. I will just throw them out there. Then, unless somethng else somes up, I will watch and read. These are questions that have been asked before and not answered to anyone elses satisfaction. Thank you for the blantant NO on the previous question.
[11:06]  Melody Regent: Jack, You have told us over and over that the new marketplace is only a BETA. With all the hoopla surrounding land of late: The lack of info in the wiki, the search, the bulk rates and so much more, why was land once again excluded. I would have thought that with the BETA you would have wanted to make a point of making sure land was included this time, instead if excluding it…yet again. When will the Labs stop treating us like we are second rate and start adding land as a priority instead of a nasty after thought? When will the Marketplace start to include land?
[11:07]  Silken Wilder: to copy n paste……….When will the Marketplace start to include land?…
[11:07]  Jack Linden: hence we took that decision
[11:07]  Shila Szondi: I have the same questions..why are land owners once again punished
[11:07]  Jack Linden: Joshe, as the blog post explains.. picks are not helping search at all. in fact they make it a lot less accurate – and we need to get search back to a state where both merchants and those searching can get the best from it
[11:08]  Whitestag Gothly: Jack you might want to reconsider a agenda based discussion again : )
[11:08]  Jack Linden: so the update includes a few things that i can list here..
[11:08]  Lady Sakai sighs
[11:08]  Jack Linden: improved listings pages (how they generate)
[11:08]  Timothy Maximus: the maturity ratings bug?
[11:08]  Gemini Dash: sorry to disturb you but how do you get pregnant on this game
[11:09]  Opensource Obscure: Whitestag, I agree on having a meeting Agenda. it’s difficult for me to read here.
[11:09]  Equinox Pinion: post it again mel..he is ignoring it
[11:09]  Jack Linden: will get to that Timothy
[11:09]  Silken Wilder facepalms
[11:09]  Jack Linden: also a fix for results with None in the listing
[11:09]  Melody Regent: I am letting him finish with the search thing, trust me, I wont let it go
[11:09]  Lady Sakai pokes Silken
[11:09]  Timothy Maximus: thanks jack sorry
[11:09]  Ardy Lay: Gemini, that is disturbing.
[11:09]  Whitestag Gothly: Yes and is spammed all to hell Open
[11:09]  Luna Cartier: LEt him list the fixes, folks
[11:09]  Joshe Darkstone: thats because you do it badly jack, not because its a bad idea. when you cut the results at 1000 you suddenly have a prepoonderance of profiles in there – you could just COUNT the relevance and not actually display them in search, and why yuou would treat other picks in peoples profiels as relevant to an unrelated parcel they also have in picks is.. well, again, someone has said it before – gsa is not designed to do what you are trying to make it do
[11:09]  Jack Linden: Better handling of keyword spam
[11:09]  Jack Linden: ..and much faster index generation
[11:09]  Joshe Darkstone: but these devcisions you ar emaking seem designed to further damage stores
[11:09]  Lady Sakai: no it isnt Ardy .. but this isnt the time or place for it Id admit that
[11:09]  Rene Erlanger: Any joy with SEARCH Jack…aprat form that Blog…….when’s it happening
[11:10]  Jack Linden: You should see the blog post go live shortly
[11:10]  Gemini Dash: please can i know or u don’t know how to
[11:10]  Jack Linden: Rene, it’s about to go live with the latest search update
[11:10]  Joshe Darkstone: indexing 1000 results is bunk – of course its fast. you ignor e90% of what you should be looking at
[11:10]  Marianne McCann: It’s off-topic for this discussion Gemini. Try using the search system to find places that provide that service
[11:10]  Luna Cartier: Does this release fix the bug for parcels NOT listed in Search?
[11:10]  MarillaAnne Slade: how many buts will the new search fix Jack?
[11:10]  Medhue Simoni: What about the GO buttons for tping directly to products, when will we get this back?
[11:11]  MarillaAnne Slade: bugs too even
[11:11]  Silken Wilder: use your seach Gemini
[11:11]  Melody Regent: Gemini Dash – take the LM I pass you and go there, they can help
[11:11]  Gemini Dash accepted your inventory offer.
[11:11]  Silken Wilder snickers
[11:11]  Jack Linden: just reading back a second..
[11:11]  Driftwood Miles: Faster indexing is a no brainer Jack with picks removed. You can only index on Name , Description & A Tick in Show in Search. Thats not a search…thats a list!
[11:11]  Joshe Darkstone: why do we keep hearing about how fast the search engine is instead of how much less it does for us now?
[11:11]  MarillaAnne Slade: Joshe has a great question too
[11:11]  Pamela Galli: Jack, Commerce has had one OH since March — lots of changes and we are in the dark.
[11:11]  MarillaAnne Slade: I’m not impressed that my region listing keeps showing up instead of the correct parcel
[11:12]  Rene Erlanger: Jack.My question is this……you say Picks are causing all sorts of problems, but these were not porblems we had with GSA 5. Do you think you purchased a system that is just too overly complex for the type of SEARCH required for SL
[11:12]  Caveman whispers: How is Babby Formed?
[11:12]  Alexxa Despres: IF the preview we saw earlier was ANY indication of the fixes….that’s scarey…First 7 pages when I typed in ‘land’ were a list of regions and people…..I HARdLY think that is a ‘fix’
[11:12]  Jack Linden: to Lady’s question.. in time I’m sure the search team will be looking at office hours, but right now they are focussed on improving it as much as possible, and quickly
[11:12]  Joshe Darkstone: i have another one. At what point should the skptics amoungst us start thinking that you are crippling search to drive stores to the new marketplace?
[11:12]  MarillaAnne Slade: pff i’m there Joshe
[11:12]  Luna Cartier: Jack, will the parcels bug excluding them from search be fixed with this “upgrade?”
[11:12]  Roberto Villosum accepted your inventory offer.
[11:12]  Joshe Darkstone: at wehat point should the skeptics amoungst us start assuming you are leaving land out of the marketplace because you have empty continents to fill?
[11:13]  Opensource Obscure: IMHO, gaming Search paying people to add Picks was lame anyway. Good move.
[11:13]  Jack Linden: Rene, they were problems with GSA5 too, the picks issues aren’t new but they are in the way of us getting search results that are accurate
[11:13]  Silken Wilder: and those who do not game picks Open???????
[11:13]  Asterion Coen: got an emergency. nice seeing you folks, and have fun
[11:13]  Lady Sakai: Jack, that is all good BUT … meanwhile a lot of other important questions is gonna be ignored cos this is turning into “SEACH 101″ .. *sighs*
[11:13]  Jack Linden: Luna, yes that bug is fixed
[11:13]  Joshe Darkstone is a skptic, first class
[11:13]  Marianne McCann: See ya Asterion
[11:13]  Charlene Trudeau: Jack has assured me that land will be brought back into the marketplace, that it is a strong concern, but they want to be sure they implement it correctly and strongly for us
[11:14]  Driftwood Miles: Picks are not ideal for search indexing…but if you remove without replacing your making search impotent
[11:14]  Melody Regent: Jack, You have told us over and over that the new marketplace is only a BETA. With all the hoopla surrounding land of late: The lack of info in the wiki, the search, the bulk rates and so much more, why was land once again excluded. I would have thought that with the BETA you would have wanted to make a point of making sure land was included this time, instead if excluding it…yet again. When will the Labs stop treating us like we are second rate and start adding land as a priority instead of a nasty after thought? When will the Marketplace start to include land?
[11:14]  Equinox Pinion: charlene that means we will wait ages for it!!
[11:14]  Shila Szondi: I havent heard an answer to when the lands will be included in the marketplace
[11:14]  Charlene Trudeau: I suggested we have a link not only off the marketplace home but also under ‘buy land’
[11:14]  Joshe Darkstone: land will be brought back into the search when they are done selling off their continent in the form of linden homes to people who wont know there is an alternative
[11:14]  Marianne McCann: I gotta admit, after four plus years of search being… difficult… I’m very much a skeptic about it
[11:15]  Shila Szondi: Also I asked right at the beginning about the date to announce the prices on the grandfathered sim..still no answer
[11:15]  Jack Linden: Charlene, yes – we’re going to look at the land listings issue for the new marketplace and make a decision on how best to handle it. until then the two will run side by side whilst we test the core functionality
[11:15]  Pamela Galli: Jack, where can merchants get questions answerd? Huge changes with the marketplace and we are left in the dark.
[11:15]  Talarus Luan: Mari! My little eternal optimist! NUUUUU!!!!
[11:15]  Marianne McCann grins
[11:15]  Equinox Pinion: you will make decisions? why dont you ask us jack so it isnt screwed up again
[11:15]  MarillaAnne Slade: lol I’ve been optomistic for 2 yrs
[11:15]  MarillaAnne Slade: i hit the wall
[11:15]  Melody Regent: Run side by side? When will they start to run at ALL?
[11:16]  Marianne McCann: Can’t even tell ya the last time I used search for anything other than bringing up a user profile.
[11:16]  Joshe Darkstone: why isremoving picks suddenly such a priority when removing traffic gaming is making the few who ignor ethe ban rich while the rest are not making the cut?
[11:16]  Uni Ninetails: same here
[11:16]  Jack Linden: Melody.. as I’ve said, it *is* a beta, it doesn’t include everything because it makes no sense to deliver everything for a live test in this case. We want to test the core functionality and over time we will continue to add other features.. some that are ones we miss from xstreet and some that add new features
[11:16]  Lady Sakai: same for me MArianne
[11:16]  Ziki Questi: jack, can you tell us what the timeframe is for implementing the assistant feature, and how soon it might be possible for merchants to have more than one storefront?
[11:16]  MarillaAnne Slade: pics aren’t even the issue
[11:16]  Driftwood Miles: Search has updated….check it out!!!
[11:16]  MarillaAnne Slade: there a deep deep programing bugs
[11:16]  Shila Szondi: [11:15] Shila Szondi: Also I asked right at the beginning about the date to announce the prices on the grandfathered sim..still no answer
[11:16]  Marianne McCann: Always been too unreliable for anything beyond that
[11:16]  Talarus Luan: I use it as an enticement to start crying Dragon tears when I look at mainland prices.
[11:17]  Medhue Simoni: Jack, it is not even usable
[11:17]  MarillaAnne Slade: and it’s not *NOT* viewer based
[11:17]  Jack Linden: Yep, I believe the search changes are now live
[11:17]  Melody Regent: I understand it is BETA Jack, but you are missing the point. Why didnt you have land as PART of the BETA, specially considering all the crap that land has been going thru of late. I would think you want want to make it a priority.
[11:17]  Driftwood Miles: If thats it Jack…we might as well all go home now!!
[11:17]  Lady Sakai: I agree Talus, Mainland prices are a joke at best
[11:17]  Melody Regent: OK< so it is BETA, ad we are told over and over and over. WHEN will it be added to the BETA or at all?
[11:17]  Pamela Galli: Jack we have two pages of Marketplace JIRA’s — but we are in the dark about everyting.
[11:17]  Timo Daehlie: the are not that bad .. the bottom went up from 0.5 to 0.6 this week
[11:17]  MarillaAnne Slade: nope
[11:18]  MarillaAnne Slade: search is still borked
[11:18]  Alexxa Despres: yes…and wow….when I go to look for land rental….. I get a LIST of regions.Again….this is a FIX?
[11:18]  Tasia Tonic: immediately what I see in this search result is that almost all algroithms for search were reset…Jack…what is going on over there? Titles, Dessciptions…I see another roll back this is not right
[11:18]  MarillaAnne Slade: borked borked borked
[11:18]  Dirk Klees: Are there any plans to implement changes to issue object keyword spam in search? I see the current search being rolled out right now and i see places dominating the results who have tons of objects rezzed containing the same keyword spam over and over again in their name/description
[11:18]  Equinox Pinion: wow…we are number one lol
[11:18]  Joshe Darkstone: omfg – im on top for landscaping, can you imagine that – shuts up and sits quietly in the corner *love that new search jack*
[11:18]  MarillaAnne Slade: yep region name in place of parcel name
[11:18]  Jack Linden: Melody, I actually don’t think the land listings on xstreet are that great. I think we can do better, and part of the reasoning in leaving it out is that it’s not as simple as just doing the same again. The new platform gives us the chance to look at it properly.
[11:18]  Uni Ninetails: lol… Joshe
[11:18]  Lady Sakai: Alexxa, dont even try and look for rental homes … we are getting excluded all over
[11:18]  Talarus Luan: My neighbor sold his whole sim for L$110,000. Talk about a steal.
[11:18]  Equinox Pinion: they are not great..but they help us selling land
[11:18]  Equinox Pinion: now we have nothing!!
[11:18]  Melody Regent: Thank you for looking at it properly, when can we expect to see something in the BETA for land?
[11:19]  Tasia Tonic: yeah
[11:19]  Roberto Villosum: Jack… just to have an idea… how much of the gross revenue LL does on land sales, private estates and all. I know its a big number, altough i dont have the actualt figures. But do you realize that putting peope in such a condition where who has hundrds of sims is NOT able to sell or at least to use the marketplace that has always been one fo the key points fo sales, dont you think that has a defnite priority ?
[11:19]  Jack Linden: Equinox, we haven’t taken them away. They will stay in xstreet as we work through the beta process
[11:19]  Talarus Luan: Some noob bought it and promptly put it back up for sale at L$850,000 (L$15/sqm)
[11:19]  Tasia Tonic: this search needs to index properly is what I am hoping for….seriously this has major issues…did you go to human editing? LOL
[11:19]  Equinox Pinion: Jack, are you aware that your great viewer 2 sometimes doesnt let people buy land?
[11:19]  Dennis Lagan: why do you ask us still 25 lindens for this listings then, how about a grace period till you did it properly? or will you triple the pricing?
[11:19]  Melody Regent: When will they be added to the MarketPlace Jack, when can we expect to be a part of this BETA of yours
[11:19]  Surf City: LandMark giver at Surf City (Surf Sity – Homestead for Sale – L$8000/wk tier) has just been used by Jes Luik !
[11:19]  Equinox Pinion: i am sure many lost land sales because of it
[11:20]  Shila Szondi: Also I asked right at the beginning about the date to announce the prices on the grandfathered sim..still no answer
[11:20]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: It’s nice to do it properly, but I would think that since special deals have been made (bulk buying), it would really be a priority to get it into the marketplace.
[11:20]  Lady Sakai: Jack, RENTAL HOMES dont have anyway of advertising .. cept for the SHOW in Seach … What about that ?
[11:20]  Tasia Tonic: Hey jack can we start watching the graveyard for the viewer 2
[11:20]  Tasia Tonic: jhehe
[11:20]  Jack Linden: Melody, as we’re discussing it at the moment I can’t give you a time. It depends on how we decide to approach it
[11:20]  Roberto Villosum: And to top Melody and the others on this… if land sales fails miserably as it seems. How much money is LL going to loose ?
[11:21]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Is Delby going to be here today to discuss bulk buying?
[11:21]  Sonya Haight: so you’re saying xstreets land forums won’t be closed before there is a replacement on the new marketplace?
[11:21]  Shila Szondi: JACK, can I please get an Answer
[11:21]  Melody Regent: any time in 2010 or should we wait for 2011 on this. Maybe narrow it down to a quarter?
[11:21]  Medhue Simoni: Jack, this new search is giving 1000 times worst results than it did not 10 min ago
[11:21]  Tasia Tonic: wowww…I get BDSM results on a pg serach
[11:21]  Tasia Tonic: search
[11:21]  Tasia Tonic: :/
[11:21]  Jack Linden: Shila, sorry missed the earlier Q.. we know we need to make that announcement soon. We will try to get it out as fast as we can
[11:21]  MarillaAnne Slade: look here’s the deal jack … I can’t afford my whole sim … for 2 years I’ve had nearly all the same shopkeepers … TWO YEARS …. now they can’t make money on my sim because the parcel name doesn’t show up … just the region name and AND AND for the few parcels that do show up … they*ONLY* show if PG … JUST pg is selected.
[11:21]  Medhue Simoni: How can you say at all that this is better
[11:21]  Jack Linden: Sonya, yes
[11:21]  Dirk Klees: Are there any plans to implement changes to issue object keyword spam in search? I see the current search being rolled out right now and i see places dominating the results who have tons of objects rezzed containing the same keyword spam over and over again in their name/description
[11:22]  Medhue Simoni: This is a worse mess than we had jack
[11:22]  Charlene Trudeau: Jack, Thank you. The land listings as is are HORRIBLE, but they remain our single best tool for reaching our future residents. We definitely want better, we just don’t want to be left without for long, even if it means a compromise til you roll out ‘ideal’.
[11:22]  Driftwood Miles: Jack, why does search still not work?
[11:22]  MarillaAnne Slade: so guess what …. unless something changes in a hurry … i won’t get to keep playing with my little artsy fartsy stuff.
[11:22]  MarillaAnne Slade: and there’s nothing exceptional about my story
[11:22]  Melody Regent: Jack, you need to give us SOMETHING in the meantime. How about a MOTD to the LAND FORUMS? do that atleast once a week.
[11:22]  Timothy Maximus: has the maturity ratings bug been fixed?
[11:22]  MarillaAnne Slade: it is *THE* current story of sl
[11:23]  Tasia Tonic: no Timothy
[11:23]  Melody Regent: Jack? For christ sake, I got an EMAIL ABOUT BECOMING A VAMPIRE!!!!! Why cant we get one about land?
[11:23]  MarillaAnne Slade: AND if i don’t think I’ll be in SL … who do you think I’m encouraging to enter SL
[11:23]  Tasia Tonic: i am still getting rated X items in pg search
[11:23]  Pamela Galli: There are NO commerce product forums
[11:23]  Jack Linden: MarillaAnne, I’d need more details to be able to really address that situation. If the stores are not PG, but are trying to list on a pG region, that may be an issue
[11:23]  Medhue Simoni: Jack you should end this office hour right now, cause people are going to start screaming in here
[11:23]  Jack Linden: Hard for me to say without the details
[11:23]  Equinox Pinion: Jack, what about paying tier in L$ is that on your list or a no deal?
[11:23]  Qie Niangao: lol, Mel: you’re in the wrong business, obviously. want some fangs?
[11:23]  Lady Sakai: Medhue, Jack is used to that by now
[11:23]  MarillaAnne Slade: Jack it’s a pg sim … has always been pg … i control all the parcel info … and settings
[11:23]  Talarus Luan: I already have fangs. <.<
[11:24]  Rene Erlanger: Someone should be made accountable for the SEARCH debacle, which has seen 100′s of businesses closed and real USD lost…..not to mention the time spent building their businesss over time
[11:24]  Melody Regent: tell me about it Qie
[11:24]  Roberto Villosum: There are fantastic search engines out there. Why not use those ? There are sytems for keywording almost anything the proper way, there are search engines (google in the very first pace) that are harder to foul. Why reinvent the wheel everytime ? Choice between “make or buy”, unless its a very specilaized project (and SL search is NOT that specialized) in a common business sense is always up for the “buy”. Not to the “make”.
[11:24]  Silken Wilder: welcome to the Dark Side Melody
[11:24]  MarillaAnne Slade: just to e sure that there wasn’t some insanity going on … i set the sim to mature and went to each of the 20 odd parcels and double ck’d all the settings.
[11:24]  Jack Linden: MarillaAnne, then you;d need to give us some specific info for us to take a look
[11:25]  MarillaAnne Slade: If i do this … will you swear to me that you’ll look
[11:25]  MarillaAnne Slade: I know how to do it
[11:25]  Jack Linden: Roberto, we use the google search appliance. Agreed that there are others out there; right now this is the platform we’re using though
[11:25]  MarillaAnne Slade: but i’m not going to waste my time without a promise in front of this group
[11:25]  Tasia Tonic: it appears that LL also took the TITLE of the land out of the algorithms
[11:25]  Lady Sakai: Jack, We need aomthing for RENATAL HOMES .. please .. I run a smal community sim and we have some rental homes to help us cover the tier. This seach is a killer Please give us a bone here !!
[11:25]  Melody Regent: Jack, why not throw a bone here. So we are not a part of your little BETA project. Ok, cool. I will let that drop for now. However, why not set a MOTD or send and email. Is that seriously a bad thing? Make a step here. Work with us. Give us SOME way to save some of this. It cost you nothing at all to do a MOTD or Email. You sure do it for Linden homes
[11:25]  Medhue Simoni: Jack my satelite store now shows ahead of my Main store, this is not better
[11:25]  Joshe Darkstone: well before i do any more biting off heads im withdrawing my fangs while i try to find other parcels in search, doesnt mean im not angry over all thins, has probably cost me $10000, and several islands. but ill keep my council for th emoment
[11:25]  Pamela Galli: Is there anyone in charge of Commerce?
[11:25]  Jack Linden: MarillaAnne, yes we’ll look
[11:25]  Melody Regent: lol, lady!!!! Bones anyone
[11:25]  Driftwood Miles: Looks like you used a Nuclear Bomb to crack a nut
[11:26]  MarillaAnne Slade: OK fine
[11:26]  Tasia Tonic: this makes zero sense Jack…of all things search I have never seen the algorithms just poof…something has to be wrong here
[11:26]  MarillaAnne Slade: I’ll set up some tests
[11:26]  Talarus Luan: I don’t think one can blame the tools, nor will a new tool make the situation any better. At some point, the finger needs to be pointed at the tool user.
[11:26]  Roberto Villosum: Jack…i have been working woth the damn thing for ages. And it DOES work perfectly, if you know how to tune it. Call some of the G folks in to help.
[11:26]  Lady Sakai: any bone .. some thiiing pleaaassseeeeee Jack
[11:26]  MarillaAnne Slade: yea well all know it’s not the tool
[11:26]  Jack Linden: Yes, we’ll do MOTD for estates. We’re arranging that for this coming week
[11:26]  Melody Regent: Email
[11:26]  Melody Regent: MOTD
[11:26]  Melody Regent: simple? Yes or no?
[11:26]  Lady Sakai: RENTAL HOMES :p
[11:26]  Driftwood Miles: 5k anyone?
[11:26]  Tasia Tonic: Jack is this thing indexed yet?
[11:26]  Ciaran Laval: This search is fixed? My parcel isn’t appearing
[11:26]  Equinox Pinion: errrr…and where will it lead people???
[11:26]  Driftwood Miles: yes Tasia ))
[11:27]  Jack Linden: Sadly we’ll just be pointing to the wiki pages etc, but it’s a start. We can’t point to a specific location because we’d bury the region
[11:27]  Tasia Tonic: noway
[11:27]  Driftwood Miles: good isn’t it
[11:27]  Tasia Tonic: this is not a full indexing
[11:27]  Melody Regent: Drift, they will add it for 20 minues, find a bug and do a rollback. Not taking that bet
[11:27]  Tasia Tonic: it cant be
[11:27]  Melody Regent: hahah
[11:27]  Driftwood Miles: They think it is
[11:27]  Lady Sakai: oh hell Jack .. bury me .. please .. anything !!
[11:27]  Melody Regent: Jack, point to the FORUMS!!!
[11:27]  Alexxa Despres: yes Ciaran…. and the Emperor is wearing clothes too!
[11:27]  Melody Regent: So we can advertise
[11:27]  Silken Wilder quietly makes her exit..
[11:27]  Tasia Tonic: it contains NO algorithms :/
[11:27]  Driftwood Miles: what have they got left to index now that picks and traffic and keywords have gone?
[11:27]  Melody Regent: Lady, advertise int hem all since you have none
[11:27]  Luna Cartier: Is there someone on the actual Search team available to discuss the issues?
[11:27]  MarillaAnne Slade: The person you need to Hire is Tasia
[11:28]  Lady Sakai: advertise where Mel ?
[11:28]  Marianne McCann: Have fun, all. Gonna run
[11:28]  Jack Linden: Melody, yeah we could point there too just lacks some clear explanation but we could
[11:28]  Melody Regent: your rentals
[11:28]  Lady Sakai: Im not allowed anywhere I only have Rental homes and stores now
[11:28]  Tasia Tonic: hell I have been a search engine optimization specialist for 14 years
[11:28]  Melody Regent: That gives us a place to advertise and gives you a chance to help us do it
[11:28]  Lady Sakai: and no one is renting stores with the seach messed up like it is
[11:28]  Tasia Tonic: this is horrible
[11:28]  Tasia Tonic: omg
[11:28]  Jack Linden: Driftwood, we index everything.. names, objects, locations, events etc.
[11:28]  Tasia Tonic: you have ZERO algorithms JACK
[11:28]  Melody Regent: it will also get people to look for forums. Both to advertise and to look for things
[11:28]  MarillaAnne Slade: no Jack
[11:28]  Tasia Tonic: title, desciption NADA
[11:28]  MarillaAnne Slade: Tasia knows
[11:29]  MarillaAnne Slade: and I know
[11:29]  MarillaAnne Slade: this is bs
[11:29]  Driftwood Miles: thats everything Jack you just listed it all!!!
[11:29]  Rene Erlanger: Jack….why do LL stubbornly refuse to accept when things don;t work, why don’t you listen to your customer base, …..the ones that invest the real dollars into this game. There’s no harm in putting your hands up…..and saying”we got this wrong”. Your Search system isn’t working….and hasn’t done so for the last 3 months. Why do you all at LL stubbornly carry on with what appears to be a FAIL………..its the same with Viewer 2.0, where adoption rates are still low for what it was meant to be.
[11:29]  MarillaAnne Slade: don’t try to out geek the geeks
[11:29]  Tasia Tonic: there is no way possible this is an indexing of any kind
[11:29]  Ciaran Laval: This is not good
[11:29]  Lady Sakai: hell sure .. Jack pont ppl to birmingham City and Ill set up advertisment for the Esates .. hows that ?
[11:29]  Driftwood Miles: you don’t need an alogarithm for that you need a three year olds cloth maffs book
[11:29]  Melody Regent: Its not a fail Rene – it is an EPIC FAIL
[11:29]  Tasia Tonic: I think I will wait 24 hours…either they will roll it back or they will put something in to gain ranking
[11:29]  Charlene Trudeau: speaking of indexing events, Jack, isn’t there any way to get search to immediately ignore events wiuth a time/date stamp that is already past?
[11:29]  Medhue Simoni: Every1, do a search, it’s a mess
[11:30]  Uni Ninetails: just did, its bollock’d
[11:30]  Alexxa Despres: yes it is is Medhue
[11:30]  Tasia Tonic: not even content is showing as a criteria
[11:30]  Jack Linden: Rene, i think that’s unfair. I’ve stood here week in week out and have talked about the fact that we know search has been broken. We’ve talked about the problems. We want it fixed as much as you guys do. I would love it to be instant, but it’s not. We are fixing it as fast as we can
[11:30]  Timothy Maximus: all i ask from the search is consistency
[11:30]  Charlene Trudeau: gettign search results wihtout excluding events, is so cluttered with past events in many search results
[11:30]  Dirk Klees: Jack: Why not filter our object keyword spam, there are tons of places listed top in search repeating the same keywords over and over again in the object name/description? That’s gaming the search engine too!
[11:30]  Dirk Klees: out*
[11:30]  Jack Linden: We totally accept our role in getting it resolved asap
[11:31]  MarillaAnne Slade: Dirk it’s not quite that easy
[11:31]  Ciaran Laval: This is worse than before, now I don’t appear in any maturity rating
[11:31]  Timothy Maximus: has the maturity ratings bug been fixed?
[11:31]  Pamela Galli: Jack when can merchants have an office hour? Who is head of commerce? We are in the dark.
[11:31]  Luna Cartier: Yeah, but Jack, if you don’t do anything to remedy the situation, it doesn’t matter if you hit yourself with a bat over and over.
[11:31]  Joshe Darkstone: i guess the question would be – why do you keep breaking things ?
[11:31]  Driftwood Miles: But jack you have just made monumentally ridiculous decisions and rolled out something that is less fit for purpose than the last not fit for purpose search was
[11:31]  MarillaAnne Slade: a jewelry store will have 100 necklaces
[11:31]  MarillaAnne Slade: legit
[11:31]  Joshe Darkstone: i mean it doesnt make sense if you understand that peoples lives are being ruined by it
[11:31]  Kayleigh McMillan: more we can’t ask Jack
[11:31]  Charlene Trudeau: marketplace and search both need office hours, if possible, for, pardon me everyone, constructive input
[11:31]  MarillaAnne Slade: it has to be named necklace so that it can also be found in the individual
[11:31]  MarillaAnne Slade: inventory
[11:31]  Tasia Tonic: actually Dirk i agree with that…they could use spamming as a way to knock people out of search..that is search old
[11:31]  Tasia Tonic: like 12 years old
[11:32]  Dirk Klees: if the search engine is intelligent it would see repeating keywords in the same object…not talking about several similar products, but about objects exclusively used to game search
[11:32]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: totally agrees with Charlene!
[11:32]  Joshe Darkstone: you dont ahve to remove land from search to figure out a new way to do it, use the old way until you have a new way
[11:32]  Medhue Simoni: “animated texture paintings” is #2 in a search for animation
[11:32]  MarillaAnne Slade: it’s the negatives that they have no clue about
[11:32]  Driftwood Miles: Shopping Mall is no
[11:32]  Jack Linden: Pamela, as you;ve probably seen the commerce team have been pushing out the new marketplace; i’m not sure if they plan on office hours but they have been answering feedback in the forums etc on the new site
[11:32]  Roberto Villosum: The Google engine they claim to use dos just that. Overkeywording WILL lower your rank in search, Tasia.
[11:32]  MarillaAnne Slade: a coffee shop will have tea coffee etc … but not dresses
[11:32]  Driftwood Miles: it’s actually becoming amusing
[11:33]  Tasia Tonic: that is what I am saying Roberto
[11:33]  Lim Catteneo: MarillaAnne++ there are manu legitimate reasons why a parclel would have a signle word repeated 100s of times, my store include store name in each product, am I now going to get punished for “stuffing”?
[11:33]  Ciaran Laval: Indeed Marilla, a shoe store should be describing their items as a shoe, the idea that they will get punished for that is ludicrous
[11:33]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I understand the HUGE impact of search, but it there anything else on your agenda to discuss today Jack?
[11:33]  Tasia Tonic: spamming should get yur banned not raised on the search
[11:33]  Pamela Galli: not for days Jack — the migration was to be finished Tuesday; it was not. We are left in the dark.
[11:33]  Dirk Klees: right now though, i see places with repeating keywords in objects in the search result DOMINATING on the first places
[11:33]  Shila Szondi: Im still seeing a ton of bots out on sims, has LL abandoned going after the bots and unfair traffic gaming?
[11:33]  Tasia Tonic: google is famous for black balling a site for it
[11:33]  MarillaAnne Slade: a dress shop that as a tea colored dress iss not a coffee shop
[11:33]  Tasia Tonic: yeah there is a ton of that Dirk or there had been
[11:33]  Jack Linden: Joshe, re-developing the land listings as they were, in the new site, knowing we wanted to change it – wouldn’t be sensible. We’re dual running, so that the land listings remain through beta, while we make a decision on how to address it
[11:33]  Jack Linden: I think that’s absolutely the right approach
[11:33]  Lady Sakai: maybe they have a coffee coloured dress also ?
[11:33]  Joshe Darkstone: i see people actually crying in here, well in rl, because this is ruining them – and when you sit in a wheelchair and this is your anchor, the only thing that makes something possible for you, its really dificult to watch LL just break everything they touch lately and put these peoiple at risk of losing their homes, as well as their incomes
[11:34]  MarillaAnne Slade: but yes a human that is alerted to an obvious spam … should have the power to at least FLAG the stupid place
[11:34]  Medhue Simoni: Jack, we waited 135 days for this ever worse search?
[11:34]  AnnMarie Otoole: Charge Lindens per Keywords, that will clean it up.
[11:34]  Dirk Klees: if someone uses objects on their parcel having “LAND LAND LAND LAND BUY LAND BUY LAND” and so on, they should drop to the bottom imo, and not get on the top of the list
[11:34]  Harper Beresford: Joshe, since when is it Linden Lab’s responsibility to make sure you keep your HOME? Go find another money making enterprise.
[11:34]  Tasia Tonic: Jack are we starting a 24 hour waiting period here for this to properly index? Maybe that would take out some confustion
[11:34]  Jack Linden: Shila, we are still warning and where necessary taking action on bot abuse. Those that use bots to push traffic are risking being removed from search
[11:34]  MarillaAnne Slade: Dirk, you should have the power to AR that parcel
[11:35]  Joshe Darkstone: so tyou are saying that the existing land search will stay live until a new method is implimented jack? that isnt what you said last week i dont htink
[11:35]  Lady Sakai: No AnnMarie, that will only push out the samll merchants and beginner stores and bennefit the big ones
[11:35]  Jack Linden: Also remember that residents can’t tell if bots have been listed as bots (in which case we discount them from traffic).
[11:35]  Jack Linden: So you may see bots, but they may be having no impact
[11:35]  MarillaAnne Slade: and a half-wit at a help desk should be able to flag that owner
[11:35]  Dirk Klees: I would spend my whole time hunting and AR’ing…thats a job the search engine should do
[11:35]  Melody Regent: stop the use of traffic as a factor
[11:35]  Rene Erlanger: Jack – I don;’t think its unfair…….you;ve had a broken Search system for 3.5 months nearly, each fix you introduce brings up new issues. Whislt the GSA 5 search wasn;t perfect……..it was useable. You purchase an expensive Search engine, took a few days to screw up its implementation…..3.5 months down the road, its still not working………PRICELESS!
[11:35]  Shila Szondi: Im seeing a lot of bots come back that drive up the traffic, they arent listed
[11:35]  Linux Rootcreeper: oh boy
[11:35]  Joshe Darkstone: well when they are cloouds hiding under the water in a cocoon, its a fair assumption – but ok :_)
[11:36]  Lady Sakai: oh GOD Yes please .. I agree with mel.. stop the traffic please !
[11:36]  Lorac Cleanslate: lol
[11:36]  Uni Ninetails: jack for pitys sake… a bloomin gaggle of newbbots sitting at 2000m insite a friggin invisiprim… -_- thatll be bots.
[11:36]  Lim Catteneo: the new search just became active, it has totally irrelevant results, put some obscure sites on top
[11:36]  MarillaAnne Slade: Jack why do you people never learn?
[11:36]  MarillaAnne Slade: *WE* *know* geek
[11:36]  Shery Capalini: do al of these meeting srun like this so not fair to anyone where we ask a question and get an answer instead of a free for all
[11:36]  Talarus Luan: They learn; the problem is which lessons.
[11:37]  Lorac Cleanslate: this is it girl
[11:37]  Timothy Maximus: has the maturity ratings bug been fixed?
[11:37]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I agree, Shery. We need an agenda and a set time for discussing each issue.
[11:37]  Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[11:37]  Uni Ninetails: Shery: its like this all the time Jack never takes the suggestion of having an Agenda like Nyx Linden does.
[11:37]  Roberto Villosum: Jack… i am realy (badly) impressed. I undertand you are doing your best in here, dealing with all the people. But again… land maket in beta and no easy alterantive while you are at it ? I mean is your developer team working to keep you in business or trying to steer people out of SL because with the hundrrds of thousand follars invested in land they wont take the loss just because LL wont let them run the business they chose ? “What was the claim ? “A 3D world made by residents” or something like that ?
[11:37]  Serra Anansi agrees with Shery
[11:37]  Ciaran Laval: Timothy, put it this way, my parcel I’m looking for now doesn’t appear at all
[11:37]  Jack Linden: Sorry Shery, this one is a little more rapid than usual but they do tend to be freeform
[11:37]  Timothy Maximus: mine neither
[11:37]  Timothy Maximus: but i was just curious lol
[11:37]  Kayleigh McMillan: agrees shery
[11:38]  Medhue Simoni: Mine does not show either in this mess
[11:38]  Dennis Lagan: its as messy as the others. SL is not made to have mass meetings. It should be done by an email list.
[11:38]  Linux Rootcreeper: Jack’s queue is probably pretty stacked atm haha
[11:38]  Shery Capalini: yes this is madness and not fair to anyone here or jack linden
[11:38]  Tasia Tonic: I am sorry Jack i need to ask again…can you clarify if Search has indexed fully or are we in that 24 hour reindexing pattern?
[11:38]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: We only have you for an hour Jack and others may have other topics to discuss…:)
[11:38]  Jolee Baxton: If I hve a n AD and it’s Mature, it may not be seen or more likely to been seen if it’s PG?
[11:38]  Kayleigh McMillan: couldn’t agree mor ei don’t like this
[11:38]  Harper Beresford: Shery, this is a sort of public therapy session where people get to abuse Jack and he gleans from their abuse what is causing great amounts of anxiety for customers
[11:38]  Luna Cartier: And then they do nothing about it
[11:38]  Kayleigh McMillan: wow that’s terrible lol
[11:38]  MarillaAnne Slade: Timothy … No. the maturity bug is not fixed
[11:38]  Equinox Pinion: we dot abuse him harper….we just tell him what is wrong
[11:38]  Jack Linden: Tasia, I expect it’ll still be moving around a bit yet as the new indexes settle
[11:39]  Dirk Klees: It seems to be again, that people who comply with the search engine recommendations mentioned in the wiki will be punished, and those who conduct keyword spam will be rewarded by landing on the first places of results
[11:39]  Luna Cartier: Rinse. Repeat
[11:39]  Shery Capalini: ok Harper but doesnt seem to be that productive
[11:39]  Tasia Tonic: k
[11:39]  Jack Linden: It’s literally just gone live
[11:39]  Whitestag Gothly: Ok Jack I have a question for you why is it that as we know linden labs is aware of this issue and had planned a corrective time frame by prioritizing and allocating man paower to fix it if they are in fact going to. Done deal we are aware but the topic of these meetings are always the same and allowed to just spam over and over the same old topic when decisions have already been made. Why is it you have no control over the meeting to touch on and progress to other topics that might be problems? Why allow the meeting to be controlled by the same thing where a agenda could bring out other important issues?
[11:39]  Sonya Haight: don’t do that again Lady
[11:39]  Jack Linden: So it’ll take a while to settle
[11:39]  Shila Szondi: anyone have the wiki link please?
[11:39]  Harper Beresford: but it is for these individuals, clearly, Shery
[11:39]  Tasia Tonic: I am going to wait for the 24 horu mark before I make any calls on algorithms…but right now soemthing is not right :/ good luck ya’ll
[11:39]  Raven Pennyfeather: Back to the studio.. thank you Jack for your updates and information. Much appreciated
[11:39]  Joshe Darkstone: jack, i could write you a lil lsl tool so that any time we have questions we can ask them and you can just wjere it on your belt and have all of our opinions all the time… that might sort things out eventually
[11:39]  Tasia Tonic: bye bye for now
[11:40]  Medhue Simoni: Yeah, just keep waitng every1, lol.
[11:40]  Harper Beresford: isn’t that what you use Concierge for, Joshe?
[11:40]  Dirk Klees: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Search_Guidelines
[11:40]  Pamela Galli: Jack, please ask Grant or someone to come back to the forums — we wonder what happened to the migration, we are in the dark.
[11:40]  Talarus Luan: Hey, it worked for adfarms and microparcels.
[11:40]  Shila Szondi: thanks Dirk
[11:40]  Jack Linden: Whitestag, I think that’s a good point. This meeting has been running for a long time, it does get harder for both me and the audience. It may be that we need to move to an agenda and specific speakers
[11:40]  Talarus Luan: If we can just wait long enough, they’ll eventually be resolved, too!
[11:40]  Dirk Klees: you’re welcome ㋡
[11:41]  Timothy Maximus: take care peeps i gtg
[11:41]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Exactly, Jack!
[11:41]  Kayleigh McMillan: neegood idea jack
[11:41]  Timothy Maximus: thanks jack
[11:41]  Lim Catteneo: the serarch result as this “improved” search show are going to be the final nail in the coffin for SL in-world economy, man totally irrelevant 5 product shops showing on top
[11:41]  Zep Palen: Jack you just need to be able to move the visitors to a speakers list…
[11:41]  Dennis Lagan: make sure its the users agenda, not lindenlabs
[11:41]  Nber Medici: Jack, what is the maximum number of Homesteads on one CPU? I keep getting people tell me different numbers and want to confirm what it is.
[11:41]  Kayleigh McMillan: send a notecard with question on a certain date and we come here to listen to teh answers
[11:41]  Jolee Baxton: I hope this all changes very soon or I’m in trouble in my RL.
[11:41]  Uni Ninetails: Jack… talk to Nyx. Seriously.
[11:41]  Dirk Klees: Jack, the recent blog post from Sea says that keyword spam will be punished. Can we expect that those spamming places will drop while the indexing goes on? He mentions some 72-96 hours to be complete
[11:41]  Whitestag Gothly: I agree Jack or whats the point of it
[11:41]  Joshe Darkstone: lol, why yes harper, but i dont get answers in CIG
[11:42]  Equinox Pinion: 4 Nber…16 on a server
[11:42]  Jack Linden: Yes Dirk, exactly. (Sea is a she btw)
[11:42]  Dirk Klees: She* sorry
[11:42]  Talarus Luan: I thought they moved to 3 Homesteads per CPU
[11:42]  Linux Rootcreeper: this is a pretty big bottleneck
[11:42]  Joshe Darkstone: personally i prefer this format, an agenda means no answers if they are going to filter the questions
[11:42]  Nber Medici: Would like to hear that from Jack.
[11:42]  Shery Capalini: jack this is my first office hours , I have to say you are mad to deal with this format
[11:42]  Kayleigh McMillan: got to poof for dinner
[11:42]  Linux Rootcreeper: Yeah Shery lol
[11:42]  Zep Palen: Jack what will then be considered as keyword spamming? I mean my business name is in all my products
[11:42]  Jolee Baxton: So, If I have an AD in classified, it shouldn’t have many keywords?
[11:42]  Kayleigh McMillan: yes
[11:42]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Joshe, too many meetings are taken up buy just one subject.
[11:42]  Jack Linden: Nber, it varies as we have a mix of hardware with different numbers of cores per cpu
[11:43]  Lady Sakai: Shery .. its not normally as mad as this … seach has completely taken over by now
[11:43]  Uni Ninetails: Zep: yes id like an answer. same here
[11:43]  Jolee Baxton: is just confused
[11:43]  Dirk Klees: Lets hope then that it happens…it would be a big relief for everyone. After all these dark months, i would like to be able to deliver some good news to our merchants.
[11:43]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Others need to have other issues addressed as well.
[11:43]  Rene Erlanger: Shery….you cna read the minutes of this Office Hour later on…..it will help some
[11:43]  Dennis Lagan: they didnt Talarus, they are still “thinking” about that. (for over 1.5 years)
[11:43]  Jack Linden: 4 per core is the usual measure for homesteads.
[11:43]  Luna Cartier: Jack exactly what groups are you overseeing now?
[11:43]  Joshe Darkstone: well that means there are lots of people disturbed by that particular issue i guess
[11:43]  Sonya Haight: what about the region pricing Jack? when will we see a blog post?
[11:43]  Talarus Luan: Oh really? What happened to the move to 3 per core?
[11:43]  Shila Szondi: JACK there were conversations last month in the CIG group and sl merchants about the use of m/m boards. A member had his account suspended for using them, saying it was gaming traffic. Does this mean every m/m board must be removed?
[11:44]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Yes it does, Jack, but….there are others patiently waiting a turn.
[11:44]  Melody Regent: I would like to know that as well Shila, are they gaming and not allowed?
[11:44]  Dennis Lagan: jack, Openspaces are 4 per core as well, despite that you keep teeling people that they are for light use… how so, with the same amount/core there shouldn’t be any difference.
[11:44]  Jack Linden: Luna, post reorg and the company changes, I’m still on the Product side and have picked up search, commerce, aspects of viewer, and a range of other pieces. I’m still involved with Land for example
[11:44]  Talarus Luan: It’s an open Q&A format. Just ask your question.
[11:45]  Rene Erlanger: Jack – Does traffic impact Search rankings. I understand Picks won’t any longer
[11:45]  Luna Cartier: ok, just would help to know what questions to ask you , or go elsewhere for info. Might blog about what you do.
[11:45]  Jack Linden: Sonya, blog post soon on that. I know we want to get folks some assurance around that and it is due
[11:45]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Okay, you are still involved with land. When is Delby going to be here to discuss the bulk buying issue?
[11:46]  Uni Ninetails: Yes, what of bulk buying tiers etc
[11:46]  Jack Linden: Rene, yes it does have an impact
[11:46]  Lim Catteneo: judging by the search results now, it’s totaly random
[11:46]  Lady Sakai: AND the buddy tier issue ?
[11:46]  Ciaran Laval: Jack this search i seriously borked, roll it back
[11:46]  Zep Palen: Jack I will repeat my question::”Jack what will then be considered as keyword spamming? I mean my business name is in all my products”
[11:46]  Lim Catteneo: it is beyond broken
[11:46]  Pamela Galli: [11:43] Shila Szondi: JACK there were conversations last month in the CIG group and sl merchants about the use of m/m boards. A member had his account suspended for using them, saying it was gaming traffic. Does this mean every m/m board must be removed?
[11:46]  Jack Linden: Hopefully next week APinkSwan
[11:46]  Medhue Simoni: Yes, roll it back Jack
[11:46]  Whitestag Gothly: Again once LL knows the issue they will persue it as they wish no sence in beating it to death weeks on end it wont change the direction they will take on it per their business, best to touch on other topics that might be usefull also to others in SL lets say those that might not use the search engins as much as other but also have issues that effect them and alot of others
[11:46]  Jolee Baxton: I’m getting ready to put out a new AD and I need to know if I should leave out most keywords. I see other places with plently of keywords at the top
[11:47]  Jack Linden: Ciaran, lets let it settle – it only just went live. Take a look at it tomorrow.
[11:47]  Medhue Simoni: Jack this is not a game
[11:47]  Medhue Simoni: this is our lives
[11:47]  Joshe Darkstone: yes, guidance on keyword usuage would be a good thing, specific guidance, i preface each items name with the category its in, so i can track it in spreadsheets
[11:47]  Ciaran Laval: I have multiple parcels simply not appearing
[11:47]  Medhue Simoni: and we have waited 135 damn days
[11:47]  Charlene Trudeau: we really need a knowledgebase entry that lists the things we are not permitted to do to ‘game’ traffic. If a decision is made on a new product that article should be updtated immediately to reflect it so the rest know
[11:47]  Driftwood Miles: we have two listings for the one parcel!!!
[11:47]  Jack Linden: Zep, repeating the same words over and over would be obvious spamming, as would using words that are not relevant to the store/location
[11:47]  Jolee Baxton: Not a game, at all
[11:47]  Sonya Haight: Zep, mine is on all of mine too, I’ve been trying to uncheck a full sim of objects marked show in search
[11:47]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Jack, and Delby is the only one who can speak to the bulk buying issue?
[11:48]  Joshe Darkstone: jack, repeating then in different show in search products?
[11:48]  Lim Catteneo: LL has interesting notioins of “relevance” and “improved search”
[11:48]  Joshe Darkstone: like trees, they ar eall called tree for instance
[11:48]  Jack Linden: Charlene, there is a search guidelines wikipage.
[11:48]  Jolee Baxton: Thank you but then why are some that have more keywords than others at the top?
[11:48]  Dennis Lagan: jack, just like homesteads, Openspaces are 4 per core as well, despite that you keep telling people that they are for light use, compared to homesteads. with the same amount/core there shouldn’t be any difference. Can you explain?
[11:48]  Melody Regent: Speaking of Bulk Jack, everyone has been waiting to see what the Bulk Deal is for land. We thought we would see it last week. I know we are all wondering about it. I also know that you have a few other ‘programs’ out there for large estate owners. When will you also make those programs public as well so that people know what kind of benefits are available to them if they continue to grow and get larger. It would seem to me that the more you talk about the perks you get, the more people might want to grow.
[11:48]  Zep Palen: Jack..thats not working. You cant pusnish a business for having their name in the products they are creating
[11:48]  Serra Anansi: so a designer with their store name in the product is considered spamming?!?!
[11:48]  Jack Linden: Just as with google or any search engine, there is only so much detail we can give
[11:48]  Talarus Luan: What, you mean parcel entries with “ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ……..” are obvious spamming? <.<
[11:48]  Linux Rootcreeper: oh lordy
[11:48]  Joshe Darkstone: its not very specific jack
[11:48]  Jack Linden: Dennis,
[11:49]  Jack Linden: Is the specific question, why they have the same cpu ratio?
[11:49]  Joshe Darkstone: ok, can you just answer if that spamming is a matter of repeating the word in the same place? can i call 10 trees trees?
[11:49]  Whitestag Gothly: Yes jack where is my 20 homesteads for 55 usd a month teir : P
[11:49]  Jolee Baxton: How about, rent land, rental land, land rentals?
[11:49]  Uni Ninetails: Jack is having my business name in the title of products shown on search ging to bugger me up? forest and floor over 300 times -_- need some answers please.
[11:49]  Dennis Lagan: yes jack
[11:49]  Ardy Lay: Talarus, once per ZYNGO machine. How many they have?
[11:49]  Jack Linden: Hehe yes Tal
[11:49]  Ciaran Laval: Jack some of it’s simple, are people going to be punished for repeating a word too many times in their land description, will they be punished for having their store name in every object.
[11:49]  Lim Catteneo: I have my store name in every product on sale, hundreds of them
[11:49]  Uni Ninetails: answer jack not just me asking…
[11:49]  Talarus Luan: So, about that so-called “gambling ban”… >.>
[11:49]  Pamela Galli: I have info about LaGalleria in descriptions
[11:50]  Charlene Trudeau: and I think we should ahve store name in every product, that’s *relevant*
[11:50]  Charlene Trudeau: but fake boxes that are set for sale to spam shouldn’t be
[11:50]  Joshe Darkstone: i have my sales categorys in every item – 1000s of them
[11:50]  Ciaran Laval: It’s good marketing Charlene, it makes perfect sense to do that
[11:50]  Charlene Trudeau: er, set to show in search, shouldn’t be
[11:50]  Jack Linden: Dennis, the product spec, is what drives the value and what we charge. Agreed that they share the same hardware, but pricing isn’t based upon that, it’s based on the product itself. Openspaces have fewer prims/agents, therefore they are cheaper
[11:50]  Dirk Klees: i hope the search engine knows to make a difference between store names in the objects (appears one time and is ok) and objects containing the same word or kind of words over and over again (spam, not ok, punished)
[11:51]  Jack Linden: Ciaran, potentially yes. People should avoid repeating the same words over and over
[11:51]  Linux Rootcreeper: I would imagine it does Dirk
[11:51]  Zep Palen: Jack…that wont work
[11:51]  Uni Ninetails: oh for fu….
[11:51]  Equinox Pinion: 20 USD less for 3000 prims less jack….what value is that??
[11:51]  Serra Anansi: BRANDING isnt SPAM
[11:51]  Sonya Haight: yep Joshe me too, it helps to add the category to the name, that along with my store name means I have to uncheck everything on the sim
[11:51]  Dirk Klees: That’s a statement i’ll frame and put on my wall, thanks jack for clarifying this
[11:51]  Dennis Lagan: jack, your explenation clearly says in the wiki that its for light use cause they run with 4 per Core. Either way you change that or you change the homesteads per core.
[11:51]  Uni Ninetails: JESUS H CHRIST MONKEYS JACK
[11:51]  Lim Catteneo: Jack, but that’s bull, people put their brand name in the product, thjat’s how it works
[11:51]  Zep Palen: That would force me to change all my similar products into completely different names
[11:51]  Luna Cartier: Did the GSA v6 come with a user manual?
[11:52]  Joshe Darkstone: jack when you say avoid using the same word over and over, do you mean tha tusing the same word in multiple show in search items os a problem?
[11:52]  Jolee Baxton: Why is it that I see other places with more keywords than I have at the top?
[11:52]  Driftwood Miles: Lke I said a Nuclear Bomb to Crack a nut
[11:52]  Joshe Darkstone: can 20 different trees have the word tree in them?
[11:52]  Shila Szondi: JACK there were conversations last month in the CIG group and sl merchants about the use of m/m boards. A member had his account suspended for using them, saying it was gaming traffic. Does this mean every m/m board must be removed?
[11:52]  Charlene Trudeau: I think he means a description that says ‘fashion fashion fashion fashion fashion fashion ‘
[11:52]  Dennis Lagan: “Openspaces are intended for very low-impact use only. They share 4 CPUs per server, and support a limited number of objects.” this information is totally misleading.
[11:52]  Serra Anansi: Branding is NOT spam… this is seriously an issue
[11:52]  Jack Linden: No Joshe, i’m talking about within one description
[11:52]  Joshe Darkstone: or do we have to call them tall bushy things with bark
[11:52]  Luna Cartier: Vendors are going to have to uncheck everything for search and use boxes with keywords to make sure they are not bunished for “branding” their items.
[11:52]  Zep Palen: Please give us an answer on: “Will having your business name in all products be considered as spam?”
[11:52]  Joshe Darkstone: ah
[11:52]  Dirk Klees: agree @charlene
[11:52]  Joshe Darkstone: thanks you, thats a big help
[11:53]  Uni Ninetails: so ive got 565 products with Forest floor in it. im shit out of luck Jack? im getting angry. and i dont often get angry.
[11:53]  Zep Palen: ok..think I got it now
[11:53]  Joshe Darkstone: uni, no
[11:53]  Talarus Luan: That’s what I meant from my “ZYNGO…” reference.
[11:53]  Joshe Darkstone: read his last answer to my question please
[11:53]  Whitestag Gothly: Might help a bit also if you dont call a tree (sofiex35.7)
[11:53]  Uni Ninetails: ack sorry, things wonky. *reads back
[11:53]  Uni Ninetails: ahaha phew
[11:53]  Jack Linden: Serra, my understanding is that you don’t need to repeat the brand ahead of every item. Search will find it if the brand and object name both appear in the description even if they are not next to each other.
[11:53]  Melody Regent: Jack, maybe have someone that can answer these questions with solid definate answers should have a meeting on this… not that you ‘say; you have the search working better
[11:53]  Dirk Klees: i’ve followed a case in the jira where a texture designer was concerned that just because all of her products are textures and her object names contain “Texture” she would be punished…from what i understood here today i think that shouldn’t be a problem for her
[11:53]  Jack Linden: But i’ll ask the team whether we can be more definitive on the guidance wikipage
[11:54]  Pamela Galli: To me keyword spam = words that have nothing to do with the store
[11:54]  Joshe Darkstone: yes, thats all the specificity we need i think jack, it was very confusing
[11:54]  Lim Catteneo: Jack, but we do want our products to contain our brand name
[11:54]  Rene Erlanger: Jack – If you have a single product business….lets say Skins…….are they going to be punished? It’s obvious the word skins will be used for all the different tones and series…..but its valid. I mean how many alterantive ways can you describe the word “SKINS”….not many all. Are these type of businesses goping to suffer under your new format. Bare in mind there are tons of Single product businesses
[11:54]  Linux Rootcreeper: @_@
[11:54]  Pamela Galli: If the words describe the parcel’s merchandise, fine
[11:54]  Ardy Lay: I am gonna get me a little parcel, name it Object, and put 117 Objects on it all set to show in search and see what happens.
[11:54]  Jolee Baxton: still doesn’t know how to word my AD
[11:54]  Luna Cartier: But once a userbuys something, you want your store name on the product.
[11:54]  Melody Regent: Let us know Ardy
[11:54]  Ardy Lay: Heh
[11:54]  Joshe Darkstone: well to me keyword spamming is repeating the same keyword over and over in the same place (as well, but i did it, like most, because you have to do what works
[11:54]  Pamela Galli: It’s like Xstreet — the spam is not the description
[11:55]  Lady Sakai: Jack, We do that to help customers sort through their inventory easier … I have *B* in front of each description … will I now get punished for Branding / helping people ??
[11:55]  Pamela Galli: it is the off-topic words
[11:55]  Lisa – Regent Land Bot: LandMark giver at MLCC (Regent Estates Home Office) has just been used by Poko Modan !
[11:55]  Shila Szondi: JACK there were conversations last month in the CIG group and sl merchants about the use of m/m boards. A member had his account suspended for using them, saying it was gaming traffic. Does this mean every m/m board must be removed?
[11:55]  Ciaran Laval: “Object” doesn’t get indexed, or it never used to
[11:55]  Talarus Luan: Keyword spam also means spamming the same word over and over again in the same line/block of text. It’s an OLLLLLLLD way to game search engines that doesn’t work on newer ones.
[11:55]  Sonya Haight: right Joshe, thats what I did last and it worked for one parcel, not for the other
[11:55]  Bronson Blackadder: it would also be nice to see Mainstores show up FIRST before listings for affiliates in malls
[11:55]  Ardy Lay: Ciaran, okay. I’ll use another name.
[11:55]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I would actually like to know the answer to Shila’s question as well. It’s been asked numerous times now.
[11:55]  Melody Regent: ***** [11:55] Shila Szondi: JACK there were conversations last month in the CIG group and sl merchants about the use of m/m boards. A member had his account suspended for using them, saying it was gaming traffic. Does this mean every m/m board must be removed? *****
[11:55]  Joshe Darkstone: it would be nice if we had a leywords section for parcels in addition to a description, so that the keywords determine relevance, and we could deescribe our stores properly
[11:55]  Jack Linden: Rene, I understand what you’re saying but I <skin> <type> would still find it even if the two were not a phrase in the description.
[11:55]  Jack Linden: Shila, m/m board?
[11:55]  Sonya Haight: Shila is talking about the Midnight Mania boards mentioned last week
[11:55]  Charlene Trudeau: REne, but the one prdocut box shouldn’t say ‘aurora skin – skintastic skin skin’ with the description line being ‘skin skin skin skin skin skin skin skin skin skin…..’. If they use a normal product name that includes ‘skin’ and their store name, and has a normal description ‘high fashion, shiny glowy skin with detailed makeup and optional landing strip’ they’re fine
[11:56]  Joshe Darkstone: your gsa6 would allow oyu to tag that keywords area for parsing and ignore the rest
[11:56]  Lady Sakai: MM = Midnight Mania
[11:56]  Shila Szondi: yes lucky chairs and M/m boards, where you click to get products
[11:56]  Belle Bartlett: MM boards are also being used to give out stolen content from creators …so I have a reason for not liking them to begin with
[11:56]  Jolee Baxton: So this is spam: land for rent land rental land for rent land rentals rent land Buy land rent land to rent land rentals beachfront land for rent buy Island buy land buy
[11:56]  Serra Anansi dies
[11:56]  Jack Linden: Oh those. Yeah.. it depends on the usage I expect. That sits with the governance folks in support – if they took action then presumably they felt there was a violation there
[11:56]  Joshe Darkstone: asked and answered last week – as i recall jack has no visibility on that issue
[11:56]  Uni Ninetails gets the defib kit
[11:57]  Jack Linden: I can’t really speak to that one as I don’t know the case
[11:57]  Joshe Darkstone: er, week before
[11:57]  Lady Sakai: so we go to the Govenance OH for that ?
[11:57]  Dirk Klees: exactly @ Jolee…..and i remember that the last month, some people using this way of spamming dominated the search results without interruption
[11:57]  Talarus Luan: So, Jack, how about those microparcels?
[11:57]  Melody Regent: Jack, that needs to be defined… are they gaming or not?
[11:57]  Dirk Klees: months*
[11:57]  Melody Regent laughs
[11:57]  Shila Szondi: yes define please
[11:57]  Lady Sakai: yay Talus lol
[11:57]  Uni Ninetails: Tal: rent em to tinys as fullsims XD
[11:57]  Equinox Pinion: yes tal!!
[11:57]  Jack Linden: Lady, if you specifically have a support query about those then yes, you should talk to the support team
[11:57]  Roberto Villosum: folks, please… let get real. There is a whole world of information about RL keywording about almost anything. Most fo the good search engines use “primary” and “secondary” keywords, choosen by the one that does the keywording. Its all a matter of make good use of those rules, separate the types of keywording and penalize the badly done. There are photography acencies out there that handle BILLIONS of pictures and they need to be properly keyworded, with the right priorities and all or …. they just wont sell. ANd im not talking microstock, imtalking Getty Images and National Geographic to mention two. And basicaly what they have under the hood is just a GOOD management of commercially available search engines.
[11:57]  Lady Sakai: ok thanks
[11:58]  Melody Regent: the little lego men, how many can we fit on a micro parcel
[11:58]  Melody Regent: hahah
[11:58]  Talarus Luan: I would, but tinies tend to make up for their size in prim usages, and 3 prims just won’t cut it.
[11:58]  AnnMarie Otoole: OMG Jack you’re in the wrong room. Debates are next door, this is the Abuse room.
[11:58]  Joshe Darkstone: marketing = gaming – its all about gaming, you only need a tv to know that
[11:58]  Luna Cartier: lol, Roberto, you assume LL has setup the GSA properly and know how to configure it.
[11:58]  Rene Erlanger: i understand that charlenes…..but what a bout Tan skin, fair skin, asian skin tone, caribbean skin tone, mocha skin tone, japanese skin tone, Fair skin tone, creme skin tone…………..<—–is that really spamming. I think not, as they are valid products being sold and correct descriptons
[11:58]  Lady Sakai dont have a tv, LL wants to much tier
[11:59]  Pamela Galli: not spam Rene
[11:59]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Jack, before the hour ends. Do you have any other updates on other topics?
[11:59]  Roberto Villosum: Luna, i just assume that if i spend good money for a product i buy, i expect it to do its job
[11:59]  Medhue Simoni: Jack test the search, then consider rolling it back to the previous broken 1, believe me it was better
[11:59]  Jack Linden: okay, it’s time for me to zip to my next meeting. thanks all for coming along this week
[11:59]  Linux Rootcreeper: poor Jack
[11:59]  Jack Linden: I know it’s tough right now and i appreciate you guys giving your feedback
[11:59]  Equinox Pinion: bye jack
[11:59]  Ciaran Laval: Well if this is fully indexed my sims are being excluded
[11:59]  Tasia Tonic: Tell Sea it is broken big time :/
[11:59]  Talarus Luan: Awww.. you ignored my question.
[11:59]  Lady Sakai: TO MUC TIER Jack .. get the hint there .. *hint hint *
[11:59]  Jack Linden waves!
[11:59]  Uni Ninetails: bai
[11:59]  Qie Niangao: thanks Jack
[11:59]  Medhue Simoni: and how about instead of ditching picks, you just fix it.
[11:59]  Melody Regent: Lady, he already said no refunds, and you think they will lower tier?
[11:59]  Lady Sakai: cheers jack
[12:00]  Joshe Darkstone: my understanding is they got a black box and really have spent the last couple months trying to figure out how it is supposed to work

[11:01]  Lady Sakai: Jack
[11:01]  Equinox Pinion: hi jack
[11:01]  xstorm Radek: Jack what the hell has happen to mainland full sim support ?
[11:01]  Jayson Dorn: Hi Jack
[11:01]  Lady Sakai: wow xstorm lol
[11:01]  Valentino Tendaze: Hello
[11:02]  Jack Linden: hey everyone
[11:02]  Bronson Blackadder: and Hello Jack
[11:02]  Evelle Jarvinen: hello
[11:02]  Uni Ninetails: Hullo
[11:02]  Bitsy Giano: hiya
[11:02]  Alliez Mysterio: Hi Jack
[11:02]  xstorm Radek: the Ontyne are a bad joke that i am about to abuse report for no support from a so called support group !
[11:02]  Jack Linden: okays, let’s get this kicked off. I’ve some news re. Search that I’d like to start with
[11:03]  Valentino Tendaze hopes it’s good
[11:03]  Jack Linden: This will also go out as a blog post shortly..
[11:03]  xstorm Radek: Jack why not bring back Leo Linden then some of the sim mess will be fix ?
[11:04]  Lady Sakai: Leo hasnt stoped working yet xstorm …
[11:04]  Alliez Mysterio: Leo is gone?
[11:04]  xstorm Radek: he is gone
[11:04]  Lady Sakai: he will finish on July 9
[11:04]  Sonya Haight: not yet
[11:04]  Chaos Ametza: leo is still here
[11:04]  Jack Linden: So.. Late last week we pushed an update for search that addressed some of the big problems we’ve been having there.. unfortunately we hit a load issue so rather than have search operate badly we rolled the changes back so that we can address that problem.
[11:04]  Fly-Bangle de Lux 2.1: All Go
[11:04]  Jack Linden: We have a plan and fix, and so the search fixes will go back out, we hope, in a week or so.
[11:04]  Ciaran Laval: Rather than have search operate badly????? lol
[11:04]  Dennis Lagan: great news, you screwed it up once again
[11:05]  Alliez Mysterio: I said it would not be in June
[11:05]  Rene Erlanger: back to waht?
[11:05]  Lady Sakai: Ciaran… did you pick up on that one also ? LOL
[11:05]  Miles Beck high fives Ciaran
[11:05]  Uni Ninetails: Suck it and see dinnae work Jack… thought you guys learned that.
[11:05]  Lady Sakai: oh Jack that was just fuuuuunny
[11:05]  Zoha Boa: Jack, are we allowed to pay the tier of our sims also in a week or so ?
[11:05]  Rene Erlanger: it hsn’t been working since 1st April……..3 months ago
[11:05]  Equinox Pinion: i really dont get it jack…why does it take so long to fix it…are you aware how people are suffering from it?
[11:05]  Sonya Haight: so what you’re saying is you want us to wait some more?
[11:05]  Jack Linden: Yeah, it sucks. We had a team pushing incredibly hard to get it through but it didn’t quite work out. Search is top of our list so we’re now pushing hard to go out again very soon
[11:06]  Sonya Haight: its past sucks Jack, you’re killing us, we have no options left
[11:06]  Dennis Lagan: you are pushing hard for months, so that doesn’t mean anything
[11:06]  Zoha Boa: Jack, when can we expect to have a compensation of LL for all lost sales because of YOUR service not working
[11:06]  Rene Erlanger: 3 months?????? that’s pushing hard???
[11:06]  Patnad Babii: incredible really this is the kind of stuff that should have been fixed 3 months ago
[11:06]  Equinox Pinion: did you ever think about getting help from professional outside LL??
[11:06]  Chaos Ametza: bulk price update jack
[11:06]  Alexxa Despres: OMG!! OMG!! OMG!!!! I can NOT beleive this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[11:06]  Alexxa Despres: (en->it) OMG! OMG! OMG!! Non posso credere !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[11:06]  xstorm Radek: Jack what team so far i have seen many teams short handed do to them dumb layoffs some one did
[11:07]  Jack Linden: We want these fixes out asap too. We know it’s horrible. This was just one of those issues that we couldn’t have stayed live with. It needed to be fixed
[11:07]  Alexxa Despres: you are rolling it back to a week ago when it STILL didn’t work?
[11:07]  Sonya Haight: I agree with Zoha, so our tiers aren’t due until search is fixed right?
[11:07]  Bitsy Giano: Jack is it ok to address a few concerns about the marketplace beta at this meeting?
[11:07]  Alexxa Despres: so we can look forward to…. disappearing from SEARCH all over again…
[11:07]  Valentino Tendaze: Good try Sonya
[11:07]  Alexxa Despres: ????
[11:07]  Lady Sakai: that would mean they owe us for three months Sonya .. Im IN !
[11:07]  Alliez Mysterio: OK Jack its been 3 months now, can we expect compensation for this?
[11:07]  Jack Linden: Alexxa, we alrady rolled it backk. The fixed code was pushed briefly, then we saw the problem and immediately rolled back
[11:07]  Sonya Haight: only makes sense VAlentina, how are we supposed to pay our tier when they’ve killed our businesses?
[11:08]  Lady Sakai: Rolled back to WHEN .. Jack ?
[11:08]  Dennis Lagan: “fixed code” lol
[11:08]  Sonya Haight: sorry Valentino*
[11:08]  xstorm Radek: Jack first off you need better Testing groups and better testing tools what they seems to be working with is out dated data systems
[11:08]  Flight Band: All Go
[11:08]  Valentino Tendaze:
[11:08]  Timo Yalin: hi
[11:08]  Jack Linden: Lady, just rolled back from that update. So effectively the search update of late last week didn’t happen.
[11:08]  Jack Linden: It’ll go out soon though
[11:08]  Zoha Boa: Jack, it isn’t OUR problem that LL can’t fix search. When will you give a compensation because of the mistakes YOU make ?
[11:09]  Equinox Pinion: i agree zoha
[11:09]  Lady Sakai: thats funny enough NOT what I hear around .. Seach hasnt been working or three Months
[11:09]  xstorm Radek: i think Jack has me muted
[11:09]  Valentino Tendaze: Since V2 came out
[11:09]  Valentino Tendaze: end of February
[11:09]  Rene Erlanger: Jack, I’m not sure how many hours you work per day…whether its 8hr day or 10 hrs or 12 hrs……but if you spent just 1 hour a day reading your own forums, you’d be fully aware of some of the main issues in SL. There are umpteen related threads about SEARCH….has been since April. Businesses are folding, people downsizing, people selling off sims…some even abandoning. It can’t be good for LL bottom line either
[11:10]  Lady Sakai: when will LL start seeing sense and can the V2 AND the seach untill you can get ti to Work ??
[11:10]  Valentino Tendaze agrees with Rene. It’s not just a few, it’s many
[11:10]  Sonya Haight: it was May 3rd for this specific search update that busted it for everyone though Valentino
[11:10]  Rene Erlanger: now..that;s doing your job properly
[11:11]  Jack Linden: Rene, I am painfully aware of the search issues. We live them every day just as you guys do. That is why we have been pushing so hard to get some big fixes into place. Ideally last weeks update would have held, saldy, we hit a problem. We will get this fixed just as quickly as we can
[11:11]  xstorm Radek: Second Life 2.1.0 (206371) Jun 25 2010 14:14:51 (Second Life Beta Viewer) works better then 1.xx has ever worked
[11:11]  Ciaran Laval: Sure Sonya, but the bug was reported April 2nd on the Jira, the May update should never have happened
[11:11]  Jack Linden: I wanted to come along today and make sure that folks knew the situation. We’ll also be blogging so folks know what is going on
[11:11]  Equinox Pinion: Jack, you removed the land listings from the new marketplace! What will you do next…reclaim our sims?? We generate more than 80% of your revenue and you keep treat us like crap!
[11:11]  Liisa Runo: it starts to seem that pushing hard is not enough. Maybe LL should hire more staff and then push hard?
[11:11]  Zoha Boa: Jack, blogging about it does not pay our tier
[11:11]  Bitsy Giano: Jack bottom line from where i sit is with the search issues I have started relying very heavily on xstreet advertising. Now seeing the new beta, home page ads gone, people would have to scroll though 100s if not 1000s of ads. I’m concerned that as a marketing tool is gone too….
[11:12]  Alliez Mysterio: Did I miss the blog about bulk buying?
[11:12]  Uni Ninetails: Jack your running out of bullet time dear. People are asking about compensation.
[11:12]  Bitsy Giano: yes there are banners which take them a week to post if your lucky and buried now at bottom of page
[11:12]  Jack Linden: Hey Equinox, I think I answered you on this in email.. Marketplace is a Beta, so by definition it is not complete.
[11:12]  Ikonn Giano: Jack…. Why is LL pushing intentionally pushing sim owners out? Now that we all helped pay for servers you don’t need us? I mean you raised price got rid of forum advertising released your own homes, more main land and now there is no land in the market place. Oh and search!
[11:12]  xstorm Radek: Jack will people that own a full mainland sim get ignored by Support now ?
[11:12]  Jack Linden: So yes, some things didn’t make it in. We’re aware of those missing items.
[11:12]  Sonya Haight: true Ciaran
[11:12]  Bitsy Giano: what are we supposed to do if our only good marketing tool is killed like this?
[11:12]  Rene Erlanger: You ever consider that just maybe GSA 6 is over eleaborate for a game like SL. ike Phil Deakins mentioned accruately….trying to fit a square peg into a round hole……maybe….maybe GSA 5 engine was alll you need , but with better optimisation at your end. eg,Keyword spamming
[11:13]  Equinox Pinion: yes but Grant told me there will be no land listings in the new one after the old one disappears
[11:13]  Jayson Dorn: Jack, can you give us some basics as to why you can’t get search fixed. I believe you guys want this fixed as much as we do. All this name calling and bitching people are doing solves nothing but it is hard to swallow when it has been so long and we, or at leat I, don’t understand why it is such a large hurddle to overcome?
[11:13]  Ikonn Giano: How convenient everything that helps sim owners never makes it in
[11:13]  Equinox Pinion: how should we be able to run a business in sl when you take all advertising options from us away and search is a mess for 3 months?
[11:13]  Jack Linden: Ikonn, we’re obviously not trying to damage estates, that would make absolutely no sense. We know we have some things to address and we will
[11:14]  xstorm Radek: search is out dated and need better software engine
[11:14]  Uni Ninetails: Jack, no bullshit YOU ARE DAMAGING ESTATES.
[11:14]  Dennis Lagan: Jack, will the current land listing section at Xstreet stay? It has a separate entry in the secondlife website menu under the shopping menu, and could continue to opperate without the rest of xstreet.
[11:14]  Equinox Pinion: agree 100% uni!
[11:14]  Ikonn Giano: I for one have seen an alarming number of estates being sold over the last couple weeks
[11:14]  xstorm Radek: i think Uni is right
[11:15]  Equinox Pinion: no it will go away dennis…grant answered me in the blog
[11:15]  Equinox Pinion: grant: Land Listings on Xstreet are going to be retired when Xstreet is retired. There are plans to add the feature to the new Marketplace, however, I do not think we will be able to get the new land listing feature built before we retire the Xstreet version.
[11:15]  xstorm Radek: but they are not only doing it to one group of sim owners but all sim owners
[11:15]  Equinox Pinion: we know what “plans” mean by now at LL
[11:15]  Dennis Lagan: Lindenlab diserves bankrupcy, i hope for another 100 lay offs next year at least.
[11:16]  Jack Linden: Rene, I think that’s a fair question. We believe it *is* applicable, but it is also *different* in the way it handles relevance. Bugs aside for a moment, folks that are searching have been finding relevant results more quickly than ever. But we also see there are problems, so we’re working hard on that
[11:16]  Bitsy Giano: ok being nasty won’t fix this
[11:16]  Jack Linden: Ikonn, the number of estates going delinquent hasn’t increased recently.
[11:17]  Driftwood Miles: It will soon Jack
[11:17]  Jack Linden: Thanks dennis.
[11:17]  xstorm Radek: i feel many of us are getting ignored so i had it im not going to sit at a meeting that has no face
[11:17]  Dennis Lagan: yw
[11:17]  Equinox Pinion: yes but people selling sims did jack…many think about moving on
[11:17]  Chaley May: finding relevant results is great when ou know what you want… no so good for finding new things
[11:17]  Bitsy Giano: Jack is there any chance that they will reconsider pullling home page ads on the new marketplace?
[11:17]  Driftwood Miles: Glad to hear everything is so Rosy in Linden Land
[11:17]  Bitsy Giano: and will search on that be working, right now it doesn’t seem to be
[11:18]  Valentino Tendaze: I don’t understand how you can say people are finding relevant results – all they’re finding is Traffic gamers
[11:18]  Ikonn Giano: maybe not delinquent but people are selling them off a lot more have sim transfers not gone up?
[11:18]  Equinox Pinion: agree ikoon
[11:18]  Uni Ninetails: nods
[11:18]  Equinox Pinion: ikonn sorry
[11:18]  Jack Linden: Equinox, no doubt it’s a concern.. definitely. As I’ve said, we know there are issues we have to fix and we are moving as quickly as we can to fix them
[11:18]  Equinox Pinion: you can get a full sim by now for 100 usd from others jack…shouldnt that tell you something?
[11:18]  Jack Linden: Bitsy, what do you mean?
[11:18]  Dytska Vieria: The problem is you fix one thing and break two more.
[11:18]  Ciaran Laval: Just roll back to GSA 5, it’s far from perfect but for goodness sake, it works to a better degree than this mess
[11:19]  Miles Beck: I agree with Valentino…with all due respect, I don’t understand the “relevent results” comment, Jack.
[11:19]  Bitsy Giano: ok looking at the beta
[11:19]  Bitsy Giano: the ads that are there don’t pop up they will all be scroll to find
[11:19]  Miles Beck: *relevant
[11:19]  Driftwood Miles: Totally Agreed Ciaran
[11:19]  Valentino Tendaze: Agrees with Ciaran – V5 woudl be better
[11:19]  Bitsy Giano: people don’t dig for random ads what benefits us is that they pop up
[11:19]  Bitsy Giano: so the one recourse we had around search being gone….
[11:19]  Jack Linden: Valentino, as per the search guidance we put out, the latest search actually penalises for keyword misuse, so in fact that isn’t the case – it may seem so, but in fact it’s been improving
[11:19]  Bitsy Giano: I’m concerned
[11:20]  Bitsy Giano: combine that with the banners being buried at bottom which historically is not effective on any web site
[11:20]  Sonya Haight: I’ve been penalized for using keywords of the items I sell then
[11:20]  Valentino Tendaze: Not keyword spam – traffic gaming. Certainly on my keyword phrases anyway
[11:20]  Patnad Babii: one of the issue i see frequently is LL is lacking test before pushing something out, why dont they allow some people to `Live`on the beta grid.. and get more testing done..
[11:20]  Dennis Lagan: Jack, you haved been saying here a thousand times that you were going to work at a better land listing system trough the new marketplace, so where is it? now you come to tell us that you may include it one day, but in the meantime are removing it completely? what kind of fools do you think we are?
[11:20]  Bitsy Giano: so I’m concerned about this change
[11:21]  Jack Linden: Bitsy, I’ll pass that feedback on
[11:21]  Bitsy Giano: ty I appreciate that
[11:21]  Ciaran Laval: Define keyword misuse Jack, that’s another concern people have, they will be penalised for describing what they sell in that small description box
[11:21]  Sonya Haight: and for soem reason ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO ZYNGO is more relevant than I am since I’m not in that 1000 listings
[11:22]  Valentino Tendaze: I search for ‘gift shop’ and there are Malls at #2 ad #3 and a Garden shop at #4…
[11:22]  Jack Linden: Patnad, that is why we have a Beta marketplace. For testing in a production environment. It’s also why we rana beta of Linden Homes, Havok and so on. With Search it’s alittle different because of the way it’s so integral. We crawl millions of items and that’s hard to beta test
[11:22]  Ikonn Giano: Jack… Can we get clarification on posting in the commerce forum for stores, land and homes? People who provide these are providing a service
[11:22]  Valentino Tendaze: (Searching without using quotes, like all of our customers do)
[11:23]  Jack Linden: Ciaran, I’m really talking about repeat words, or stuffing tons of words into the description that are not relevant to the location
[11:23]  Jack Linden: GSA6 is more tuned to handle that
[11:23]  Dennis Lagan: Jack, you haved been saying here a thousand times that you were going to work at a better land listing system trough the new marketplace, so where is it? now you come to tell us that you may include it one day, but in the meantime are removing it completely? whats your excuse? you knew exactly the time you told us that noone was working at it…
[11:23]  Sonya Haight: it doesnt’ matter what you put Ciaran, I’ve tried it all, normal keywords, spamming keywords, unchecking a full sim worth of “Show in search” stuff, nothing works. I’m about to hop on that “they are only letting their favorites up top” bandwagon
[11:23]  Jack Linden: Good and accurate keyword use will get better results than adding hundreds of words
[11:23]  Patnad Babii: yeah but what if you had 10 000 resident on beta grid, you could have predicted that kind of issue ahead.
[11:23]  Ciaran Laval: There’s only so many ways to describe a shoe Jack
[11:24]  Jack Linden: Dennis, the new Marketplace is a Beta. It;s not final. We want feedback and we need to test it in a production environment. So it’s now live. Please don’t assume that a Beta is the finished product.
[11:24]  Jack Linden: We know there are items missing
[11:24]  Equinox Pinion: Jack, you promised us to give us details about bulk purchases today…what are they?
[11:24]  Dennis Lagan: we have nothing to test jack
[11:24]  Dennis Lagan: nothing
[11:24]  Sonya Haight: thats bull Jack, the only parcel I can get to show is one that has the same keywords repeated over and over
[11:25]  Wyn Nitely: Will it have the 2week beta period that V2 had?
[11:25]  Sonya Haight: even that hasn’t helped a 65,000 sqm parcel though
[11:25]  Driftwood Miles: Hearing you there Sonya For some they appear regardless for others…zip
[11:25]  Jack Linden: Patnad, we’ve never had that kind of load on beta grid. It would be great if we could do that, but it hasn’t been the case. There aren’t other folk doing this in this way that we can point to for examples either which makes it harder.
[11:25]  Alexxa Despres: AGREED Sonya.!
[11:25]  Bitsy Giano: Jack chaos crashed and I know he had a question for you regarding bulk land discounts when and what the deal is on that
[11:26]  Jack Linden: Wyn, no, it’ll be beta until it’s ready.
[11:26]  Uni Ninetails: Ohh yes havent heard anything new on Bulk land.
[11:26]  Equinox Pinion: we all do bitsy
[11:26]  Dennis Lagan: Jack, that means we may safely assume that you will be adding the classifieds for land to the marketplace before the end of the beta period? If its not gonna be then, it will never be.
[11:26]  Chaley May: i would like to know about bulk land.. its new to me
[11:26]  Driftwood Miles: Like V2 Jack?
[11:26]  Lady Sakai: we are waiting on some explenaion on that one Jack .. as you said last week
[11:26]  Bitsy Giano: not me so much but he’s my landlord
[11:26]  Bitsy Giano: although I sure wouldn’t mind that passed down
[11:27]  Patnad Babii: give away some free land on beta grid, you’ll see it will add it some load and some test will be more efficient
[11:27]  Jack Linden: Yeah Uni, that’s still on our list. Should have somethng soon for folks on that
[11:27]  Equinox Pinion: wait….bulk purchases are still on your list??
[11:27]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: You have Delby here to discuss today, correct?
[11:27]  Zoha Boa: JAck, can you confirm here that the marketplace will not go out of beta before we have a land listing ?
[11:27]  Equinox Pinion: zoha…grant said it will
[11:28]  Miles Beck: Regarding keywords: Some repetition is necessary for searching in the Places tab. If I remove ‘birthday card’ and leave ‘birthday cards’ in my description, then the omitted one won’t show up in Places. Customers use singular and plural when they type search terms. I don’t want to be redundant with keywords, and I know All Search is more important, but some customers use Places.
[11:28]  Sonya Haight: thats true Miles
[11:28]  Valentino Tendaze agrees with Miles
[11:28]  Jack Linden: Dennis, we’re planning the next phase now; we’ll be fixing issues raised by the beta and looking at what was scoped out. I actually think we can do better than the land listings as they have been in xstreet, so I’m more interested in providing better listings for land on the new marketplace than just reinventing the same ones. But we’ll talk more about that through the beta
[11:29]  Driftwood Miles: whats the timeline for fixing Search please Jack?
[11:29]  Milano Ferrentino: Jack. Compounding the financial hit caused by the search issue is the fact that the shift in exchange rate has knocked about three percentage points off of what for many of us in the land business is al already very narrow profit margin. Please discuss the exchange rate issue before the hour is over.
[11:29]  Dennis Lagan: jack , you always talk about better, but we are in fact facing no listings anymore at all for a certain period at least!
[11:29]  Ciaran Laval: Miles to be fair, GSA 6 should sort that out with keyword stemming and mean card and cards both get found, what’s more of a concern is if you get penalised for repetition for birthday cards, christmas cards, anniversary cards, etc. for repeating cards.
[11:29]  Khamon Fate: Jack when are you gonna replace this huge Corsica sign with something that doesn’t say “coming soon?”
[11:29]  Jack Linden: Driftwood, I think we’re currently targeting the end of the first week of July
[11:29]  Equinox Pinion: Jack…did you say the bulk purchases are still on your list?
[11:30]  Jack Linden: We’ll have to see how it goes. But that’s the aim
[11:30]  Zoha Boa: end of the first week of july..that’s TOMORROW jack !!
[11:30]  Driftwood Miles: ok thank you
[11:30]  Jack Linden: Khamon, you don’t like my retro sign?
[11:30]  Khamon Fate: Love It! But it might confuse teh newbies.
[11:30]  Lady Sakai: Im still confused Jack .. regarding the bulk issue …. is that going to PURCHASE or TIER discounts ?
[11:30]  Rene Erlanger: If you search for “kid skins”….you get a ton of Adult skins supliers….how does this help the consumer? It’s a nonsense!!
[11:30]  Jack Linden: Equinox, I said that yes. When we have guidance for bulk purchasing we will blog about that.
[11:31]  Sonya Haight: nifty they chose the day my tier was due
[11:31]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I thought you said you would have Delby here to discuss bulk purchases this week?
[11:31]  Zoha Boa: YOu said that Delby Linden will be here today to talk about it, not that you are going to make one day a blog post about it
[11:31]  Jack Linden: Hehe Zoha, not tomorrow. In a week or so is the goal.
[11:31]  Equinox Pinion: geeez…you promised it to us last week…then this week
[11:31]  Equinox Pinion: and now it is on a list???
[11:31]  Equinox Pinion: how hard is it to communicate that?
[11:31]  Jack Linden: June kinda flew by. been an intense month
[11:32]  Serra Anansi: you can say that again, jack
[11:32]  Sonya Haight: not for us, we just sit around on our unvisited empty sims, no reason to build
[11:32]  Jack Linden: I did APinkSwan, unfortunately that wasn’t possible. Still the plan though. Better that she join us when we have some real numbers to talk about. So we’ll try again for next week
[11:32]  Patnad Babii: Intense maybe but LL didnt release anything *working*
[11:32]  AnnMarie Otoole: Any idea when Michael will be back? No SLDPW tickets processed for a month.
[11:33]  Driftwood Miles: Busy week coming up
[11:33]  Sonya Haight: so Delby is not coming to talk to us about bulk pricing Jack?
[11:33]  Jack Linden: They all are Driftwood.
[11:33]  Lady Sakai: BUT you DO have real numbers Jack .. Anches business gets them .. whats the confusion part for you on that ??
[11:33]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Some real numbers. Okay, that’s interesting…lol
[11:33]  Jack Linden: Sonya, as I said above, sadly not this week. We’ll try for next week.
[11:33]  Sonya Haight: oops that was slow, ignore that
[11:33]  Zoha Boa: Jack, in less then 6 months it is 2011. When will you make the announcement of the prices for 2011?
[11:33]  Driftwood Miles: I have no doubt…sadly little enjoyment
[11:33]  Equinox Pinion: it is on his list zoha!
[11:34]  Uni Ninetails: Big fucking list >.>
[11:34]  Zoha Boa: must be a looong list, equinox
[11:34]  Equinox Pinion: it gets longer and longer as they dont get ANYTHING off it!
[11:34]  Rene Erlanger: the “To do” List….that’s shoved at the bottom of someone’s draw!
[11:34]  Jack Linden: It’s not a small list, very true. Zoha, that is due in July. We’re on that.
[11:34]  Dennis Lagan: jack, how about hiring 30% more staff? it looks like you can’t managbe on your own.
[11:35]  Uni Ninetails: ouxh
[11:35]  Liisa Runo: indeed
[11:35]  Zoha Boa: Or fire every day an extra linden for each day that search isn’t fixed
[11:35]  Patnad Babii: yea and in May it was supposed to be fixed in june, in june its supposed to be fixed in july.. we all know the song
[11:35]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I think this is what upsets many, Jack. Even a simple thing like having a person here to discuss or at least listen to us about the bulk pricing can’t be done when it was supposed to be done.
[11:36]  Jack Linden: Dennis, as you know we’ve just been through a significant period of change, so we are re-organising around that. We have to concentrate down to make sure we’re not still stretched across too many areas.
[11:36]  Dennis Lagan: i’m following your hours for 2.5 years now jack, it has always been a terrible mess
[11:36]  Patnad Babii: we asking you 1 thing and 1 thing only FIX THE DARN SEARCH for god`s sake
[11:36]  Rene Erlanger: Why can’t you be honest….and say that you can’t fix Search, rather than offer false promises and false hope.
[11:36]  Equinox Pinion: I do understand that jack! been in it myself…but your priorities are just so damm wrong
[11:36]  Khamon Fate: Good Heavens, y’all sound like you have nothing else to but add bulk listings to a beta site.
[11:37]  Equinox Pinion: you are still out of touch with us and dont know what is important for us!
[11:37]  Alliez Mysterio: I say hire back the 30% laid off and cut some other place, maybe salaries for a time
[11:37]  Liisa Runo: could you atleast stretch to taking care of support tickets? before the layoffs i always got the ticket solved in 2 hours, now ticket has been unread for 3 days already
[11:37]  Lady Sakai: Jack .. its very simple … you either 1. Lower the tier prices to a reasonable amount across the board .. or … 2.- Tell a certain Estate that they can no longer get Buddy Tier pricing ….
[11:37]  Lady Sakai: see… very simple
[11:37]  Jack Linden: Dennis, sorry you feel that way. I do office hours because I think it’s important that we keep communicating, even when things are broken as they are now. I hope folks still find this useful.
[11:37]  Sonya Haight: ask Google for a refund on this piece of junk and use that to pay the other with?
[11:37]  Ciaran Laval: Lower tier would be one hell of a positive and lower tier by a mile for Openspaces, they’d be useful if they weren’t so expensive
[11:37]  AnnMarie Otoole: 3 days, you lucky bastard, I’ve had tickets sitting over a month.
[11:38]  Khamon Fate: Lady, you forgot 3. Ignore me til I go away
[11:38]  Equinox Pinion: it takes an hour meeting to discuss the bulk purchases and get the info to us…how hard can that be?
[11:38]  Driftwood Miles: we are all paying 30 lindens a pop per week to …er………em…show? in search
[11:38]  Lady Sakai: he can ignore ll he wants .. Im not budging Khamon lol
[11:38]  Ikonn Giano: buddy tier priceing? lol
[11:38]  Rene Erlanger: You know Search has been borked for 3 months……..so what does LL do, they offer you Voice Morphing for 750 L per mth…..talk about priorities! rofl
[11:38]  Khamon Fate: As long as you don’t budge, you’re continuing to pay tier, so no problem.
[11:38]  Alexxa Despres: LOL rene
[11:38]  Equinox Pinion: agree rene!!!
[11:39]  Patnad Babii: Rene +++++
[11:39]  Lady Sakai: wait .. Rene .. they have to PAY for the voice thing ????
[11:39]  Dolly Heart: Lowering Tier across the board would seem to be a pertinant and healthy move right now
[11:39]  Alexxa Despres: <<wonders how I will sound as MAN… saying : SEARCH DOES NOT WORK!
[11:39]  Driftwood Miles: Hey you can’t make any sales…but Hey YOU CAN SPEAK LIKE A MONSTER!!!
[11:39]  Equinox Pinion: LOL alexxa
[11:39]  APinkSwan Beauchamp agrees with Dolly
[11:39]  Dennis Lagan: despite that i think lindenlab is one of the only companies you can reach higher positioned people easy, it feels like you don’t listen at all. well, after that time, its just no feeling, its a fact. this hours are just kind of a therapy “we spoke with jack linden, he may listen one day”
[11:39]  Lady Sakai: LOWER tier Jack .. would help EVERYONE in world … you dont have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out
[11:40]  Dolly Heart: lowering tier somewhat may help invigorate the economy and improve land sales and occupancy
[11:40]  Sonya Haight: any time line on when the July pricing might be ready Jack?
[11:40]  Jack Linden: Equinox, if it were really that simple we would have done it. Obviously we have to be clear on the impact of any pricing decisions, not just now but for the next year or two. we have to ensure we can support delivering bulk purchases, which can’t be done in the land store. We have to be aware of the impact on account managers, and be sure that what we offer is fair and attractive to as many estates as possible.
[11:40]  Lady Sakai: I suck at math even I can see the reasonable in that
[11:40]  Jack Linden: When we give out pricing guidance we have to make sure it’s correct.
[11:40]  Equinox Pinion: you need just a spreadsheet model for it…and a good finance controller!
[11:40]  Dennis Lagan: but you did it with dreamland, how did that work?
[11:40]  Equinox Pinion: i can do that in an hour for you!!
[11:41]  Uni Ninetails: OK soo how much discussion has been made on bulk pricing? hours? days?
[11:41]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Not sure about EVERYONE, but it isn’t the purchase pricing on bulk buying, it’s the reduced tier I don’t like.
[11:41]  Driftwood Miles: Jack you talk about all these precautions that you HAVE to take to ensure that you don’t cause problems occur for residents and yourselves…WTHhappened with search????
[11:41]  Charlene Trudeau: Ageed, AP
[11:41]  Charlene Trudeau: agreed
[11:41]  Khamon Fate: No Lady, you don’t, lower tier will increase server demand and likely cause an influx of new users. Linden Lab may not be prepared to support that kind of grid growth.
[11:41]  Alexxa Despres: Agreed 100 % APS
[11:41]  Lady Sakai: Jack .. for the love of god .. we are NOT concerned about bulk PURCHASES .. we are talking of the DISCOUNTED TIER
[11:41]  Jack Linden: Well Dennis, again that’s kinda disappointing. We do listen, and we do react to what we hear. We don’t always get it right, and we don’t always have the resources to do as much as we’d like. But we do listen.
[11:41]  Equinox Pinion: and it is not something new…you already gave bulk purchase discounts away and tier reductions….we just want the same option
[11:41]  Driftwood Miles: Reducing Tier for ANY individual or buying number would be a disaster to SL
[11:42]  Charlene Trudeau: sorry, Uni
[11:42]  Patnad Babii: it seem very easy to give out prices to some big estate owner when they buy in bulk, why is it so complicated when it come down to us
[11:42]  Dolly Heart: purchase price has no effect any more because of the second hand market. Lowering tier would be healthy for the economy and land ownership
[11:42]  Driftwood Miles: in reference to Bulk Buy
[11:42]  Uni Ninetails: np ^^
[11:42]  Jayson Dorn: Lady just because you aren’t concerned with it doesn’t mean many of us aren’t
[11:42]  Driftwood Miles: You would end up with a monopoly and a chase to the bottom…No choice and lower quality
[11:42]  Sonya Haight: Dolly is right, it would even up the field a bit too.
[11:42]  Dennis Lagan: when did you react? give us examples of what WE reached trough your office hours. i only know one really, thats putting up the land forum, but thats just getting back something that went, not really an improvment.
[11:43]  Equinox Pinion: they gave lower tier away dolly
[11:43]  Equinox Pinion: but only to their “buddies”
[11:43]  Lady Sakai: bulk buy ? .. that is understandable Jayson .. not discounted tier on the other hand .. that just messes up the internal compertition completely
[11:43]  Charlene Trudeau: discounted tier is just wrong, esp since the rest of us are stressing losing GF on homesteads and maybe fulls at the end of the year
[11:43]  Alliez Mysterio: Well it was done
[11:43]  Bitsy Giano: Jack can you define whats considered bulk by LL?
[11:43]  Charlene Trudeau: why should ours go away so others can get it?
[11:43]  Jack Linden: Driftwood.. let be clear, there are multiple issues with search and they get conflated. We have a few bugs, one of which is particularly bad. A fix for that is imminent. We have a different relevance algorithm, which isn’t *broken*, but it is different. it’s much more dynamic and reacts more to search behaviour than before. We also have more sensitivity to over-use of keywords, and that means some people are not where they expect to be.
[11:44]  Jack Linden: On top of that, we have UI issues in Viewer 2 that need addressing.
[11:44]  Sonya Haight: we’re running out of time and haven’t even got to these new thrown in play as you go policies about Midnight Mania boards and Lucky chairs and bannings.
[11:44]  Jack Linden: So it’s a bunch of stuff, and we’re committed to fixing it all.
[11:44]  Lady Sakai: yea I forgot about that one also Sonya
[11:44]  Ciaran Laval: Huh? What lucky chairs and bannings?
[11:45]  Lady Sakai: someone got banned for using lucky chairs
[11:45]  Sonya Haight: seems Midnight Mania boards and Lucky Chairs are banning offenses now
[11:45]  Ciaran Laval: Behave
[11:45]  Khamon Fate: Who here is using Viewer 2?
[11:45]  Dolly Heart: Jack it doesn’t matter what you fix. If you don’t lower tier people can’t afford to play SL and have the full experience and own land
[11:45]  Khamon Fate: not me
[11:45]  Milano Ferrentino: Lowering tier would be an excellent economic stimulu, something sorely needed in the SL land economy right now. We have had to repeatedly lower what we charge tenants in order to remain even marginally competitive, and this has taken an additional major hit by the exchange rate.
[11:45]  Ikonn Giano: maybe stop trying to do so many things at one and priorities what you already got on your plate
[11:45]  Charlene Trudeau: UI problems are a huge issue, Jack, as is new player retention, but if you keep losing merchants, including major merchants, you aren’t going to have anything left for people to be retained for
[11:46]  Jack Linden: Ikonn, that is exactly where we are. We are doing that and in part, that is why we went through the org changes
[11:46]  Lady Sakai: and IF Ll is concerned about the influx of land raise the purchase price then
[11:46]  Charlene Trudeau: Search should be one of the topmost priorities
[11:46]  Rene Erlanger: What are LL future plans as to increasing the user numbers….i.e growing the grid…….all i have seen during last 3 months are receding concurrency. Are there any plans to market SL…….at least across the Internet?
[11:46]  Jack Linden: Charlene, search *is* one of the topmost priorities.
[11:47]  Charlene Trudeau: and if they are worried about influx of land, Lady, then bulk pruchase discounts is sort of self-defeating
[11:47]  Ardy Lay: Jack, how much of the mainland territory is held by LL and is that where you want to be?
[11:47]  Jayson Dorn: personally I don’t want tiers lowered. Everytime there is a change in land pricing or tier structure everybody scrambles again to redo their business model to fit but giving someone the opportunity to just be able to get a better pricing then the rest of us is just wrong
[11:47]  Charlene Trudeau: thanks for that, Jack
[11:47]  Equinox Pinion: is ONE of the topmost priorities???? it should be the ONE only priority you have
[11:47]  Ciaran Laval: Jack with search, cut the talk and fix it, three damn months now
[11:47]  Jack Linden: Rene, that would be more a question for the marketing team, but we certainly accept our role in bringing in new residents. It’s crucial that we do that
[11:47]  Charlene Trudeau: its a huge concern when I have people who are trying to hang onto their store properties and limp along and having to give up their home properties
[11:47]  Charlene Trudeau: or just quitting entirely
[11:47]  Driftwood Miles: Jack your talk of the unbroken part of Search is just not true. Keyword stuffing is all over the place and not being affected by the “Broken” part. I have done enough tests on this search to know and be able to prove it is totally borked and does not work
[11:48]  Ciaran Laval: So are they saying lucky chairs and midnight mania boards are traffic gaming?
[11:48]  Lady Sakai: true that Charlene .. maybe that is why they keep that trinket for buddies
[11:48]  Jack Linden: Ardy, I don’t have exact numbers with me but I can tell you that it hasn’t changed much over time. The proportion of Linden owned mainland is about the same each month.
[11:48]  Sonya Haight: yes Ciaran and some one in cig was banned for it
[11:48]  Bitsy Giano: well yeh but on the offset it views to many items on lot with say the word cave or waterfall as keyword stuffing….
[11:48]  Bitsy Giano: and thats not if all you build is caves
[11:48]  Equinox Pinion: no it did increase Jack…abandon land on mainland increased by about 14%!!
[11:48]  Bitsy Giano: they are named caves because they are caves
[11:49]  Jack Linden: Driftwood, if you want to drop me examples I can repro, that would be great. i can forward them to the team
[11:49]  Sonya Haight: they told him MM boards and Lucky Chairs were not allowed if he had that parcel listed show in search, and removed them and banned him
[11:49]  Ciaran Laval: Ah right, what next, you have a nice build and your gaming because people stay to have a look? THis is silly
[11:49]  Bitsy Giano: so that is a fine line detecting what is spamming search and what is legit
[11:49]  Driftwood Miles: Sure Jack we have sent examples several times but of course I will send them to you.
[11:50]  Ikonn Giano: I think it would just be nice to see LL do something the helps the sim owners for once because with out all the tier we pay there would be a SL. You guys keep converting everything to LL and your bottom dollar if your really concerned about estate owners how getting the that help us. The only think i keep seeing is us loosing ways to get customers, advertise and promote our estates
[11:50]  Dennis Lagan: the problem of bringing new users to SL already sits in its name. Second Life, not to many discuss that in their “first life”, its separate. (just tink of all the people cheating their partner in here, they wil lnot tell the family or friends) Missing free Mouth to Mouth messaging for your product is a real drama.
[11:50]  Rene Erlanger: Jack….are you aware how HUGEEEEE the problem is regarding SEARCH. I mean the volume of businesses that complain about it…..not just Content providers with shops, but also Clubs, mall owners, estates etc etc It’s there in black and white on forums, shopping groups, blog sites…..places are closing up!
[11:51]  Ikonn Giano: I mean we cant even post about our estates in the forums with out our post being removed with no reason or nothing
[11:51]  Jack Linden: Rene, of course we are. It’s critical.
[11:51]  Sonya Haight: doesnt’ seem critical from our point of view, we’re losing our sims Jack
[11:51]  Khamon Fate: Search was critical enough for me to give my homestead back to Pituca and returned to the Mainland.
[11:52]  Sonya Haight: and LL is doing nothing to help us with that either
[11:52]  Khamon Fate: Iz a Taberite again.
[11:52]  Sonya Haight: they caused the problem but we get to suffer for it
[11:52]  Lady Sakai: Dennis.. the way we have been treated the last couple of years dont encourae us to advertise for them at all .. even us that dont differ between SL and RL
[11:52]  Dolly Heart: Please Jack … tell us that LL are considering lowering tier to stimulate the system and re-energise SL. I don’t see what else will help the current stagnation
[11:52]  Jack Linden: Sonya, yeah I appreciate it’s rough. There isn’t an easy way to let you guys see how hard the search team are pushing, but I can only keep repeating that we totally agree and are doing all we can to address it
[11:53]  Ikonn Giano: I agree Dolly
[11:53]  Lady Sakai: I agree Dolly … Jack do please see sense on this
[11:53]  Flight Band: All Go
[11:53]  Dytska Vieria: or come up with some new incentives to stay.
[11:53]  Sonya Haight: Dolly I believe even when they do blog the July Price thing it will be for next Jan.
[11:53]  Khamon Fate: Who at the Lab determines tier prices Jack?
[11:53]  Dolly Heart: the system needs stimulus NOW
[11:53]  Bronson Blackadder: th BOD
[11:53]  Jack Linden: Dolly, we’re constantly reviewing things like pricing.
[11:53]  Equinox Pinion: i agree dolly..but they will not do it..they are even so stubborn to keep the homeseads at 125 usd which estates cannot pay for
[11:53]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Who at the lab made THAT deal?…lol
[11:53]  Dennis Lagan: only up, not down lol
[11:54]  Lady Sakai: yea considering how to make us pay more is more like it jack
[11:54]  Dolly Heart: marvelous to hear that Jack !!
[11:54]  Ikonn Giano: its time for action
[11:54]  Dolly Heart: yes agreed Ikonn
[11:54]  Jack Linden: Khamon, it’s no single person. The company has various senior staff that own responsibility for areas of the business.
[11:54]  Equinox Pinion: dolly come to these meetings every week..and you will not say that in 6 months lol
[11:54]  Sonya Haight: any word on the mm boards and lucky chairs Jack, people want to know if all avenues of drawing people to their businesses are closed for them?
[11:55]  Khamon Fate: yeah that’s a problem, lack of accountability for specific business areas
[11:55]  Khamon Fate: Philip needs to fix that
[11:55]  Dolly Heart: lowering tier costs would perhaps have the same effect as lowering interest rates in RL during this world crisis
[11:55]  Khamon Fate: while he’s CEO
[11:55]  Jack Linden: Sonya, I don’t know much about mm boards i’m afraid.
[11:55]  Ikonn Giano: should bring Phil to one of these meetings
[11:55]  Zoha Boa: lowering tier will not bring more money in SL or more new users. they have a fixed budget.
[11:55]  Lady Sakai: Yea Ikonn .. Jack tell Philip to come along next week
[11:56]  Ciaran Laval: It’s the traffic gaming policy Jack, its being applied badly
[11:56]  Khamon Fate: Oh that would be fun, bring Philip to an office hour ha hah a
[11:56]  Equinox Pinion: good idea lady! can you invite philip to one of the meetings jack?
[11:56]  Ikonn Giano: well how about a TV commercial to bring in more money and users you already got a good video put it on the TV
[11:56]  Jack Linden: Khamon, I didn;t say there wasn’t accountability. There is. I’m just saying that for significant changes such as pricing, it would be something that senior leaders and the execs would agree on.
[11:56]  Sonya Haight: you put a free item in it, people come back and click it, if enough come by and click it in one day then it gives a free item to everyone that clicked
[11:56]  Driftwood Miles: The only thing that will stimulate the economy is more people..the market is stagnant at the moment
[11:56]  Equinox Pinion: and if you say now you will put it on your list..i will do it on my own!
[11:56]  Rene Erlanger: Given how crapola GSA 6 is…not just the bugs, but also the kind of non-releavant search results being returned on any 2 or 3 keyword phrase……you’d have been better off returning back to GSA 5 and continue beta testing GSA 6 elsewhere…..maybe the Teen Grid as its a much smaller enviroment. Is Phil aware of the SEARCH problems…..or is he busy in his “Love Machine”??
[11:56]  Lady Sakai: I promise I wont snog him untill after the meeting Jack .. Il be good
[11:56]  Khamon Fate: Yes but I don’t see why you should take the brunt of the “requests” when these guys could be emailing other people involved in the decision.
[11:57]  Bitsy Giano: lol not a chance they are trusting us to behave
[11:57]  Equinox Pinion: ok..i promise to me nice too if philips shows up just get him to the meeting
[11:57]  Jack Linden: Rene, all of are very aware of the search issues. Philip too.
[11:57]  Jack Linden: *of us
[11:57]  Alliez Mysterio: They dont want that Khamon as I was told a few weeks ago
[11:57]  Jack Linden: Hehe Lady
[11:57]  Lady Sakai: hearing it from the staff at LL is one thing Jack .. hearing it from us is another
[11:58]  Equinox Pinion: agree lady!
[11:58]  Ikonn Giano: yes exactly
[11:58]  Khamon Fate: Oh they do too, any company says “for information or to express concerns about foo, person, number, person, email, et cetera”
[11:58]  Lady Sakai: if ya wanna know how hay tastes .. ask the bloody horse
[11:58]  Lady Sakai: not the trainer
[11:58]  Sonya Haight: so we have no fixed search, no july pricing, no answer on lucky chairs and mm boards and no bundled discounts on sims? what about meshes?
[11:58]  Dolly Heart: http://www.metaverse-business.com/regionmonth.php ….. this graph shows the effect of the Oct 2008 price rise on land ownership and SL still hasn’t recovered. Please show this graph to the execs Jack
[11:58]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: lol Sonya
[11:59]  Alliez Mysterio: No, I suggested ppl write to M and board members and was told no
[11:59]  Dennis Lagan: well, the pricing for the themed sims went down. but the builds are sadly poor. why not working with some serious builders, like luna bliss, providing their setups optionally. And she has more choice then just 4 setups, even with a few percent taxes on the designs you will get much more revenue then what you get for this few poor builds of your own.
[11:59]  Khamon Fate: Jack you should post to SLU cause we talk about you over there.
[11:59]  Khamon Fate: mostly in a good way
[11:59]  Jack Linden: So guys, I have to head out in a moment. Do you guys still get value out of these office hours? I want to keep being responsive but it seems some folks find this office hour less useful.
[11:59]  Jack Linden: Thoughts?
[11:59]  Sonya Haight: no no you didn’t answer Meshes, somebody grab the rope!
[11:59]  Ciaran Laval: If you think we’re letting you duck out of these thing again!
[11:59]  Equinox Pinion: they are very frustrating jack!
[11:59]  Ikonn Giano: Jack I will give you kudos for these meetings you are a brave man for dealing with all of us upset estate owners… Maybe Phil should come with you some time.
[11:59]  Dennis Lagan: i think sl doesn’t wor k properly to have meetings with 30 people. an email list works better.
[11:59]  Equinox Pinion: nothing happends
[11:59]  Driftwood Miles: Office hours are very impotant Jack and appreciated…regardless of how heated they can get
[12:00]  Jack Linden: SLU Khamon? Hmm
[12:00]  Jayson Dorn: yes Jack, still want the office hours
[12:00]  Chaley May: These office hours just remind people every week at how bad LL is at getting things done
[12:00]  Khamon Fate: Have you thought about opening a group, in addition to office hours, where people could chat stuff that you could read and/or repsond to over time?
[12:00]  Rene Erlanger: Yes Jack…these OH are very useful……..but Action would also be useful too
[12:00]  Sonya Haight: we need somebody to scream at
[12:00]  Uni Ninetails: Jack you are being asked question week in week out, and not coming back with answers. You have a full week to get them.
[12:00]  Miles Beck: I agree with Driftwood and others above: office hours are very helpful (and not just for venting).
[12:00]  Liisa Runo: OH’s are important, we feel lot better talking with LL face to face than to only cry in forum/file a jira/send tickets
[12:00]  Khamon Fate: I mean group chat kinda sorta sometimes doesn’t work, but it’s an idea I had.
[12:00]  Equinox Pinion: we really need to see actions jack
[12:01]  Equinox Pinion: i can take alot..but i tell you i am close to give up and get a city at blu mars!
[12:01]  Khamon Fate: Yeah well I didn’t have tests graded for class today because the department is two people short this week. They’ll just have to wait.
[12:01]  Drongle McMahon: Are they useful to you, Jack?
[12:01]  Milano Ferrentino: The hour is running out, Jack, and unless I missed it there still has not been one word from you about the exchange rate. I know you and others in SL management have basically explained it on the basis of supply/demand market forces. I understand markets and shifting exchange rates, but I also understand issues of money supply, etc. It is had to explain how order imbalance alone could lhave kept the “sell L$” rate at around 360-361 for more than a year and then, after a few days of chaos, is settling in at 266-267.
[12:01]  Chaley May: i think i am yet to see a problem solved for anything thats ever been brought up here
[12:01]  Driftwood Miles: we would be neighbours Equi
[12:01]  Jack Linden: Okay, well good. I actually appreciate that you guys do come along and are always honest.
[12:01]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Question is….Do you find them useful, Jack and can you continue to stand the pressure we sometimes put upon you?…:))
[12:01]  Equinox Pinion: great drift
[12:02]  Rene Erlanger: we appreciate you attending these OH’s Jack
[12:02]  Lady Sakai: Il come to Drift .. but only if you wear a skirt :p
[12:02]  Jack Linden: I find them invaluable actually. I take a lot of what I hear into discussions inside the Lab, and it helps me to advocate for the right things.
[12:02]  Punchie Gumbo: don’t forget about the search Jack
[12:02]  Equinox Pinion: lol lady lol
[12:02]  Driftwood Miles: lol Lady
[12:02]  Milano Ferrentino: It is difficult not to suspect that this has been deliberate market manipulation by the “federal reserve” of SL.
[12:02]  Jayson Dorn: the exchange rate would bounce back quickly if people would just stop trying sell at 1 linden under market so they get their money instantly
[12:02]  Sonya Haight: do they listen to you Jack?
[12:02]  Driftwood Miles: Search please Jack
[12:02]  Ikonn Giano: Tier!!
[12:03]  Equinox Pinion: I really give you credit that you take all the crap from us Jack….but make things happend
[12:03]  Jack Linden: Anyways, I’d best run. Another meeting now. Take care everyone!

The New Market place is up and running except

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/

Land listings disappeared! Really dont know what I should say to it….

…and it seems neither does Jack

I nice chat with Jack Linden
[12:08]  Melody Regent: Jack, can you tell us why the land listings are gone from the market place now? (Old XStreet)
[12:09]  Jack Linden: hey Melody – yeah, they aren’t in the beta. we’re discussing what to do there
[12:09]  Jack Linden: we scoped a few things out of the beta to concentrate on quality for launch
[12:09]  Melody Regent: and land fell by the wayside… again?
[12:10]  Jack Linden is Offline
[12:14]  Melody Regent: Seriously?  —> [12:10]  Jack Linden is Offline
[12:14]  Second Life: User not online – message will be stored and delivered later.

I seriously dont know what to say to this.  I was actually having good thoughts about LL this last week.  Thanks for the support there Jackie

These logs were taken by Motor Loon

[11:05] Jack Linden: hey everyone!
[11:05] Equinox Pinion: hi jack!
[11:05] Nema Galicia: hiya Jack
[11:05] Ardy Lay: Hi Jack!
[11:05] Southern Riptide: heyas jack
[11:05] Patnad Babii: hey jack!
[11:05] Serra Anansi: Hello Jack
[11:05] Vanity Bonetto: hello Jack
[11:05] Master Kane: welcome jackster
[11:05] Lady Sakai: in case you missed it jack .. we are over the moon happy today LOL
[11:05] Jack Linden: one sec while everything rezzes in
[11:05] Rene Erlanger: hi Jack
[11:05] Sammy Hermit: Hello Jack 1st time ive seen a linden
[11:05] Alliez Mysterio: HI Jack
[11:05] Bronson Blackadder: JACK!!! hey!!!!!!!
[11:05] Alliez Mysterio: Great to see your name
[11:06] Vanity Bonetto: all drunk already …. *hicks
[11:06] Jack Linden: hey sammy! they say you never forget your first
[11:06] Nema Galicia: oh no Sammy has stars
[11:06] Master Kane: ok wheres he at.. i need to get in listening distance
[11:06] Jack Linden:
[11:06] Master Kane: ah got him
[11:06] Equinox Pinion: you will have an easy office hour jack…we are all pretty excited
[11:06] Selina Greene smiles
[11:06] Jack Linden: really equinox? did something big happen?
[11:06] Slee Mayo: pfft
[11:06] Alliez Mysterio: over bys his sign for office hours
[11:06] Southern Riptide: lol
[11:06] Sera Lok: we still want search fixed tho
[11:06] Zoha Boa: lol jack
[11:06] Liisa Runo: Jack, today we are super happy, so we try to be gentle with you, even though we know you can handle tricky stuff
[11:06] Equinox Pinion: ohh…you missed it lol
[11:06] Patnad Babii: M linden stepping down that a big thing!
[11:06] Imaze Rhiano: anyone have club and stream where we can party?
[11:06] Patnad Babii: and phil is back to the lab!
[11:07] Sera Lok: .
[11:07] Lady Sakai: BEST news EVER !! LOL
[11:07] Master Kane: thats small equix… i think that was his intention
[11:07] Annie Obscure: whoot! LOL
[11:07] Sammy Hermit: lindens look same as us just a bit smaller
[11:07] Annie Obscure: now lets see what he does about hte layoffs
[11:07] Zoha Boa: and most of them don’t look as good as we
[11:07] Master Kane: the BIG is that Phill is back
[11:07] Jack Linden: Okays, so a few quick updates on previous items if i may..
[11:07] APinkSwan Beauchamp: With you on that, MK!!
[11:08] Master Kane:
[11:08] Equinox Pinion: you are allowed to do anything today jack
[11:08] Lady Sakai: hush Zoha .. you look like good ol Ruthie today lol
[11:08] Zoha Boa: haha lady
[11:08] Techwolf Lupindo: Jack, start a party here now.
[11:08] Imaze Rhiano: P is creative leader – I hope that is good man to job – but at least he should be better than M was
[11:08] Master Kane: ut oh here comes the tier raises
[11:08] Lady Sakai: partay time
[11:08] Rene Erlanger: Jack. Has the supposed SEARCH fixes been applied.?
You said in your previous OH meeting, it would be due on 23rd/24th June. It’s absolutely criminal that LL have taken 2 months to dilly dallying around…..in that time (if you’re not aware already), numerous of SL Businesses have gone to the wall. Too little , too late. You should not have introduced GSA 6 not in beta form….it’s too critical an instrument to be experimenting with!
[11:09] Jack Linden: first of all.. we’re working on giving you folks some guidance on bulk discounting for islands. I’m hoping that my colleague, Delby Linden will join us for this office hour next week and she will be heavily involved in getting that information to you
[11:09] Jack Linden: One second rene.. have some updates i need o do first
[11:09] Jack Linden: *to
[11:09] Equinox Pinion: thats great news too!
[11:09] Jack Linden: So please be warm and welcoming as only you can, to Delby Linden next week.
[11:09] Nema Galicia: she needs to hae a beatr and information or no she cant be here
[11:09] Lady Sakai: well that takes care of the bulk BUYING .. but Ill wait and jump Delby next week LOL
[11:09] Jack Linden: Next up search..
[11:09] Master Kane: sure w will jack… we like being warm and welcoming
[11:09] Zoha Boa: who’s delby ? function?
[11:09] Master Kane: sure we ….*
[11:10] Lady Sakai: woo Joshe lol
[11:10] Jack Linden: As I type this the final parts of the search update are going out. This includes fixing the droped parcel bug, improved relevance and various other goodness.
[11:10] Jack Linden: *dropped
[11:10] Sammy Hermit: great news Jack
[11:10] Lady Sakai: we will smooch her and then jump her .. hows that Kack ?
[11:10] Uni Ninetails: yays
[11:10] Lady Sakai: Jack even
[11:10] Sera Lok: so exdpect changes today or tomorrow then?
[11:10] Joshe Darkstone: can you elaborate on the dropped parcel bug?
[11:10] Sera Lok: for the search?
[11:10] Master Kane: Ill take videos lady
[11:11] Master Kane: ya know for utube
[11:11] Jack Linden: Lady, a little over warm perhaps but thanks
[11:11] Joshe Darkstone: and who are we humping?
[11:11] Lady Sakai: be sure to price em high MK
[11:11] Jack Linden: So.. we expect search to be looking better over the next few days. One thing to make very clear though..
[11:11] Patnad Babii: goodness
[11:11] Master Kane: nah.. got to get a feel for her first and then decide
[11:12] zazen Manbi: …. SL2 is going to be completely overhauled???
[11:12] zazen Manbi: huh…. please?
[11:12] Adamburp Adamczyk: or hopefully binned altogether?
[11:12] Sera Lok: yes please announce 2.0 is going away. haha.
[11:12] Selina Greene: yes – please get rid of it
[11:12] Master Kane: agree there sere
[11:12] Jack Linden: the new update continues our push to make listings more relevant.. one part of that is that parcels that are using keyword stuffing… that is hurling many words, often not even associated with the parcel, into the description – will find themselves ranked lower.
[11:12] Lady Sakai: hey Motor
[11:12] Equinox Pinion: or going into beta again
[11:12] Liisa Runo: i hear a rumour that client 3.0 will be cool
[11:12] zazen Manbi: like web on a prim that anyone can change to a porn site….
[11:12] Sera Lok: but they wil appear *somewhere* right?
[11:12] Jack Linden: So it will be crucial that you use keywords that are accurate
[11:12] Master Kane: hey there vroom vroom )
[11:13] Silken Wilder nods
[11:13] Motor Loon: ey everybody, sorry I’m fashionably late – sunshine and great day for bike riding so I didnt wanna hurry home
[11:13] Sera Lok: as in, parcels would be penalized, not totally excluded, correct?
[11:13] Jack Linden: Most of the folks finding it tough with the new search are using too many keywords
[11:13] Selina Greene: how can you know that keywords are accurate without a manual search of the place?
[11:13] Sammy Hermit: i have a hair shop so main words i can use are hair
[11:13] Jack Linden: Sera, correct
[11:13] Sera Lok: but if a page is totally excluded, you can assume that it’s messed
[11:13] Master Kane: so instead of trying.. bedroom furniture.. we would use bedroom
[11:13] Rene Erlanger: so if you only sell shoes……would that be considered keyword stuffing,,,,when every 2nd or 3rd term might have the word Shoe or shoes in them.
[11:13] Silken Wilder: I don’t keyword spam my parcels and they dont show….
[11:13] Poppet McGimsie: is there a place we can read about proper construction of keywords, and where to put them?
[11:13] Sera Lok: great to hear, i hope these changes come SOON
[11:13] Jack Linden: So if you throw ‘free, freebie, free stuff, it’s free, yes it’s free’ all into the description.. not so good
[11:14] Sera Lok: particularly that Pg/mature/adult bug
[11:14] Jack Linden: Rene, you won’t need to repeat the word shoe. In fact, probably better not to
[11:14] Zoha Boa: change it into “not free, not free stuff, no, it’s not free..thenn you are good ?
[11:14] Selina Greene: lol
[11:14] Jack Linden: okay those were the main updates.
[11:15] Jack Linden: who has something specific for us to discuss?
[11:15] Miles Beck: Jack, when I eliminated keyword redundancies, such as “birthday card” and “birthday cards” by including only one of those, my store dropped out of Places search for the one I dropped. It’s forcing us to include those redundancies. Will that change?
[11:15] Sera Lok: well once the bugs are fixed we can actually start to optimize better.. (i hope..)
[11:15] Alliez Mysterio: Jack, could someone blog for us on just what is wanted for keywords
[11:15] Equinox Pinion: i do…will the uk beat germany lol
[11:15] Alliez Mysterio: Would prob help us all a lot
[11:15] Jack Linden: Miles, you shouldn’t need to add it more than once
[11:15] Lady Sakai: oh for petes sake Jack .. Ive been good .. stop crashing me plzzzzz
[11:15] Poppet McGimsie: in places search though?
[11:15] Sammy Hermit: England will win
[11:15] Miles Beck: But Jack, it dropped out of Places
[11:15] Alliez Mysterio: Give us guide lines
[11:15] Jack Linden: Oh also.. the new search update will show changes much more quickly. In less than a day
[11:16] Liisa Runo: sounds good Jack, now tell us if you know more about the “step down” of M. is he totally gone? or if still around, is he still doing damage? or something usefull like cleaning sandboxes?
[11:16] Alliez Mysterio: so all will see it and not complain
[11:16] Sera Lok: not 12-48 hours?
[11:16] Jack Linden: So refining will be easier
[11:16] Jayson Dorn: that’s good news
[11:16] Sera Lok: more like, how often?
[11:16] Rene Erlanger: well how many different vairations of the word shoe could you possibly have? It penalises all those businesses that sell single type products…like hair or skins or whatever and favours the Walmart style shop
[11:16] Sammy Hermit: so all missing land will now show up
[11:16] Motor Loon: lol Liisa
[11:16] Jack Linden: Alliez, there is a guidelines wikipage all about good search practice. will try to find the link when i have a second
[11:17] Sera Lok: is there any indication viewer 2.0 could be rescinded?
[11:17] Sera Lok: lol
[11:17] zazen Manbi: yes please?
[11:17] Alliez Mysterio: k
[11:17] Master Kane: yea that includes words of things that you dont even make OR sell too alliez lo
[11:17] Selina Greene: or at least the 2.0 UI
[11:17] Jack Linden: Sera – so, but we will extend 1.23 indefinitely whilst we work on it
[11:17] Alliez Mysterio: lol
[11:17] Joshe Darkstone: i wouldnt be being so quiet but today seems to be my day to take calls :/
[11:17] Master Kane:
[11:17] Poppet McGimsie: Jack do you have any sense that tier and other land policy will be revisited under the new management?
[11:17] Sera Lok: Good, the bugs are unbearable for people who spend way too much time here
[11:18] APinkSwan Beauchamp agrees with Sera
[11:18] Lady Sakai: and where does the kissing line form … the one for Philip I mean ? ;p
[11:18] Jack Linden: Poppet – I don’t expect any short term changes (at least ones we weren’t already working on)
[11:18] Sera Lok is really upset they released 2.0 as the official viewer so soon >:|
[11:18] Annie Obscure: do you have any sense that the decimation of the engineering staff is going to be addressed?
[11:18] Zoha Boa: jack, when can we expect the announcement about the prices for 2011?
[11:18] Master Kane: i havent seen such a load of BS as for helping new folks as I have with v2 questions… maybe that needs to be rethought , Jack
[11:18] Jack Linden: hehe Lady
[11:18] Lady Sakai chuckles
[11:19] Jack Linden: Annie, I couldn’t comment on that I’m afraid
[11:19] Master Kane: Andhug line lady
[11:19] Lady Sakai: oh Ill jump his bones for this .. why even pretend
[11:19] Jack Linden: Zoha, soon I hope. It’s on our list to get that addressed. we know it’s due
[11:19] Alliez Mysterio: lol
[11:19] Slee Mayo: i don’t kiss males, but i might philip is he does something with his hair
[11:19] Master Kane: everyone should IM him.. I did
[11:19] Jack Linden: Master, noted
[11:19] Poppet McGimsie: Jack, did management take into account the effect that raising prims, lowering tiers, allowing detachment, had on the resident population, before the price raioses went into effect?
[11:19] Molly Montale: eek! It’s Marianne, Linden Lab’s next CEO
[11:20] Master Kane: when he logs on.. all he hears is DING DING DING DING DING lol
[11:20] Alliez Mysterio: I welcomed him back in forums
[11:20] Marianne McCann giggles
[11:20] Master Kane: thanks Jack
[11:20] Jack Linden: Poppet, we did a huge amount of planning yes.
[11:20] Sera Lok: are you aware of any details about Marketplace that’s coming in a week?
[11:20] Master Kane: cool Alliez.. need to read that I guess
[11:21] Adamburp Adamczyk: onigokko
[11:21] Lady Sakai: Jack, persoanl favour … fix this region so it dont crash my ass all the time plzzzzzzz
[11:21] Sera Lok: i’m wondering if the conversion to Paypal dollars … hmm this is rather hard to explain quickly but
[11:21] Jack Linden: Lady, this region specifically crashes you? hmm
[11:21] Master Kane: Jack.. can you talk to your website team and get them OFF the flash kick?? Flash is so out!
[11:21] Lady Sakai: well this is the only one that does soooo
[11:21] Sera Lok: current Xstreet shows US conversion rates that are WAY exorbitant and don’t make any sense
[11:21] Liisa Runo whispers: i think Jack has muted me couple months ago :/
[11:21] Adamburp Adamczyk: Flash! Aaaaaaa! Saviour of the universe!
[11:21] Equinox Pinion: Jack, do you have any news on the script limits
[11:21] Techwolf Lupindo: Flash is bad. M’ok?
[11:21] Jack Linden: Master, you’re not a fan? It has it’s uses but I know that not everyone likes it
[11:21] Adamburp Adamczyk: oi
[11:22] Slee Mayo: i did, liisa
[11:22] Sera Lok: and it’s not good for merchant OR customer, at all
[11:22] Adamburp Adamczyk: i’m not ad
[11:22] Nema Galicia: the lord of the pants has spoken
[11:22] Adamburp Adamczyk: bad*
[11:22] Master Kane: Well to most that cant hardly run SL. much less keep up on thing ON the website
[11:22] Adamburp Adamczyk: well, i’m not the flash, i;m the flush, but close enough……
[11:22] Jack Linden: We’re getting pretty close to the new Marketplace launch – any of the folks here in the beta test?
[11:22] Master Kane: lol
[11:22] Zoha Boa: it’s way to slow…now it’s also in the new support system..all my +700 ticketd need to load now before they can be shown in the flash page browser
[11:22] Uni Ninetails raises a paw “im in it oh shit nda i cant tell you that! ok im not not in it
[11:22] Equinox Pinion: i am in the beta test
[11:22] Sera Lok: no, i was just wondering about the US currency/conversion and whether it’s actually logical now
[11:23] Zoha Boa: my friendslist on the website +1600 people..need to be loaded first before the page shows….
[11:23] Patnad Babii: never heard there was a beta test or id be in
[11:23] Sera Lok: as opposed to making everything look overpriced in US dollars
[11:23] Poppet McGimsie: Jack, but it just seems to me that everything got better while land was booming, but that the price increase on HSs has depressed the economy. Shouldn’t that suggest revisitng the HS polcies?
[11:23] Jack Linden: hehe
[11:23] Master Kane: tickets now flash bases.. SHIT thats on the Your Profile.. all that crap
[11:23] Jack Linden: well, it’s nearly launch time – we’re really excited and think it’ll be a huge step up for the merchants that sell through xstreet currently
[11:24] Sera Lok: looking forward to the Marketplace, although I would be curious how Pink ended up on the layoff list, ha
[11:24] Poppet McGimsie: Jack, but what abouit people who sell in world? ;-;
[11:24] Alliez Mysterio: Zoah you might want to cut some friends
[11:24] Master Kane: Jack, what about free things on MArket place… still CHARGING for those onthere?
[11:24] Sera Lok: and hoping that US conversion will be a more correct calculation
[11:24] Jack Linden: Poppet, the HS pricing was a business decision that we felt was necessary at the time. Of course we’re always reviewing decisions, especially on pricing and products.
[11:24] Master Kane: You all make it hard on those of us that like to do thing and give things away !
[11:24] Adamburp Adamczyk: haas the list been cut now with Phillip coming back?
[11:24] Motor Loon: Since I was late I dunno if it’s been asked already – but I’d sure like to know if LL is planning to slowly bring the rate back to “normal” standing or if we are just going to cross our fingers and hope it does it by itself?
[11:25] Lady Sakai: Jack, that is a positiv note, Thank you
[11:25] Motor Loon: .. on Lindex that is
[11:25] Patnad Babii: i think LL should come up with a new sim with 7500 prims witch would make ppl happy
[11:25] Jack Linden: The slowdown had started before that change though. We’d had incredible growth on Land for quite a long time.
[11:25] Sera Lok: i think the main problem peole have with 2.0 is the HORRIBLE land search and other search tools
[11:25] Selina Greene: Jack, I would really like to know if M Linden is staying with LL or whether he is leaving the company. If he is staying, what will his new role be?
[11:25] Sera Lok: that’s why we are so apalled that you guys made it the default viewer
[11:25] Poppet McGimsie: Jack, yeah I wasn’t sure if it was an uncorrelated thing, but the HS “product” certainly seemed like a good one
[11:26] Lady Sakai: if not we will be happy to help carry his things out (to be on the safe side)
[11:26] Poppet McGimsie: which is now overpriced
[11:26] Jack Linden: Adamburp.. you know that’s a great question. As part of the re-organisation at the Lab we have certainly been focussing on doing fewer projects, and doing the ones we do to a much higher standard. We’ve been stretched a little thin in places.
[11:26] Zoha Boa: NO new sim products before the market is stable again..people moving to those sims will kill the market completally..HS sims empty..FP sims empty.. so PLEASE..no new land products before the economy is better
[11:26] Motor Loon: Selina: CEO’s that get canned never stay with the company
[11:26] Imaze Rhiano: Jack – have you talked at all coming script memory limits and how much memory each parcel can have sqm?
[11:26] Lady Sakai: Zoha, I agree completely
[11:26] Jack Linden: Selina, I can only refer you to the blog post.
[11:26] Uni Ninetails: yeh Jack script mem any infos?
[11:26] Vanity Bonetto: yes, me too , Zoha
[11:26] Selina Greene: okay – thanks
[11:27] Annie Obscure: ++Zoha
[11:27] Sera Lok: do you know when will the next major 2.0 update come out?
[11:27] Selina Greene agrees with Zoga
[11:27] Rene Erlanger: How will Customer Service improve given the layoffs…..will it be a more automated process than before and less human communication
[11:27] Jack Linden: Imaze, no.. I’ve no new news on script limits. Things are a little in flux right now as we finish the re-org but we’ll be talking more broadly soon about what is coming
[11:27] Master Kane hides eye
[11:28] Jack Linden: Sera, I think viewer 2.1 beta is out now – when we move to 2.1 will depend on how the beta plays out
[11:28] Lady Sakai: Imaze, I belive bBabbage was the head man and since hes gone it makes sence they need to do some suffles
[11:28] Jack Linden: It has a lot of performance and stability fixes in it
[11:28] Sera Lok: yeah i didn’t like that haha
[11:28] Uni Ninetails: Jack, i presume region windlight is in flux also with the interal changes?
[11:29] Patnad Babii: 2.1 is mainly to push the voice morph tho :/
[11:29] Poppet McGimsie: Jack, do you think management would consider involving long-time reisdents more in decision making process?
[11:29] Ardy Lay: There is still a serious issue open on script reporting: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5598 Script Info reporting on discontiguous parcels is not working as expected.
[11:29] Lady Sakai: Jack, any hope at all the UI will be ditched? Its heartbreaking that we cant help the new ppl when they come to us
[11:29] Patnad Babii: havent seen much change in it
[11:29] Sera Lok: oh yeah!!! what about this MONO bug!
[11:29] Jack Linden: Rene, that’s outside my remit these days so hard for me to comment on customer support and how they will organise
[11:29] Liisa Runo: Babbage not gone yet, if the C# beta is well recieved he might stay
[11:29] Sera Lok: this seriously cripples any parcel that has visitors coming in and out, i can’t believe we’ve had to deal with this bug for so long……
[11:29] Patnad Babii: oh beta C# ??
[11:29] Jack Linden: Uni, that is a very minor update and may still make it into an upcoming viewer
[11:29] Imaze Rhiano: Yes/no, lady – Babbie is half dead – Brighton lab is under 30 day consulting period before lab is closed (somewhere in start of next month) – and memory limits codes are transfered to US (so they are coming)
[11:30] Uni Ninetails: O.O thought it required region patching also
[11:30] Sera Lok: are you going to simply update to a new mono , or fix it, or what
[11:30] Equinox Pinion: will you move to the US when the brighton office is closed jack?
[11:30] Jack Linden: Uni, it’s both.
[11:30] Lady Sakai: or Holand ?
[11:31] Jack Linden: Sera, I’m not sure of how the scripting roadmap is affected. That’s something we’re working on
[11:31] Sera Lok: ok ty
[11:31] Serra Anansi: Jack, Windlight is a minor update? they why were we told it was a HUGE NO CAN DO thing for so long?
[11:31] Uni Ninetails: Jack i would truly appreciate some detailed information on it if you have time for next week, if not no biggy
[11:32] Jack Linden: Serra, perhaps we’re talking about different things.. I’m referring to the estate control of windlight settings (being able to assert those on visitors)
[11:32] Serra Anansi: that is exactly what i am talking about
[11:32] (ET) Bunnies Monitor v1.9:
——- Bunnies Monitor Notice ——-
Racer has reached the hunger limit, please feed him/her!
Teleport: Serencia (144,230,29)
—————————————–

[11:32] Serra Anansi: I have been begging for it for ages
[11:32] Poppet McGimsie: wow very very cool
[11:32] Motor Loon: yep
[11:32] Poppet McGimsie: why has it taken so long : )
[11:32] Liisa Runo: more about Babbages possible future: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Babbage_Linden/Office_Hours/2010_06_16
[11:32] Jack Linden: Serra, the work for that has been done, and through QA too. It just depends on when we decide to fold it into a release
[11:33] Lady Sakai: Jack .. Ill try again .. any idea if the V2 UI will be ditched? .. Its heartbreaking we cant help new residents when they come to us .. starting SL is hard enough as it is
[11:33] Serra Anansi is annoyed
[11:33] Poppet McGimsie: Jack is it server side or viewer side? If the latter will it be in both v 2.0 and 1.x?
[11:33] Equinox Pinion: agree lady
[11:33] Marianne McCann is a rebel, and actually likes a lot of the V2 UI
[11:33] Sera Lok: i think he said no, Lady
[11:33] Serra Anansi: Please “decide” to implement it soon.. it is very needed in my region to enforce and accentuate the theme…
[11:33] Rene Erlanger: so that we don’t ask you questions which are not under your remit…..which sectiosn are you respnsible for? I take its Land, Search and eCommerce…..is that correct?
[11:33] Lady Sakai: ((
[11:34] Jack Linden: Lady, I don’t believe it will be ditched, but I do expect that it will be worked on to fix issues with it
[11:34] Sera Lok: but it would be nice, eh, to be able to like , have a 1.23 UI view in viewer2?
[11:34] Vanity Bonetto: Jack, I have asked several times the last few weeks for more abilities for estate owners in estate menu, especially to enable EM to turn off the damn ban lines … any chance to get there in the near future ?
[11:34] Jack Linden: We know it has some real flow problems especially for some users like builders
[11:34] Sera Lok: like “retro” controls
[11:34] Sera Lok: yyyyyup…
[11:34] Sera Lok: or people searching for things, or…
[11:34] Master Kane: “SOME” ??? realy?!
[11:34] Sera Lok:
[11:34] Alliez Mysterio: Getting rid of ban lines would be great
[11:35] Uni Ninetails: Id use viewer 2 if it had some damn tempory assets/ local textures ala emerald
[11:35] Sera Lok: people trying to walk around not looking like idiots because they selected something and now can’t deselect it and don’t know how?
[11:35] Equinox Pinion: but could you not make newbies download the 1.23 till 2 is fixed
[11:35] Jack Linden: Rene, I’m an ED on the Product side, so eCommerce, Search, the viewer, and of course still involved with land as a product
[11:35] APinkSwan Beauchamp wonders what the stats are on users…V2, 1.23, third party viewers.
[11:35] Master Kane: getting rid of the crack smoking v2 UI makers would be great too
[11:35] Lady Sakai: jack, sorry to harp on theis wonderfull and brightest of days … the biggest issue is the UI …. its impossible to wrk with and I for one, as a single paretn dont have the time to learn all over again … so plzzzz take it to the tech boys with my plees for it
[11:35] Selina Greene completely agrees with Lady regarding how hard it is to help newcomers – 2.0 has created a gulf between old and new residents
[11:35] Poppet McGimsie: I am not sure how much my reluctance to use viewer 2 is due to bad workflow and how much is due to overcoming energy hump involved in getting used to it
[11:35] Jack Linden: Master, I wasn’t meaning to downplay it. It needs help, we know that.
[11:35] Master Kane: yes agreed! 100%
[11:35] Techwolf Lupindo: I guess about a three way tie of viwer usage of 1.23.5, 2.x, and emerlad.
[11:35] Sera Lok: it’s just that it’s the “official” viewer and that’s really just… wrong, in my opinon
[11:36] Drongle McMahon: Why are V2 banlines much uglier than V1.23?
[11:36] APinkSwan Beauchamp: What percentage of residents are using the V2?
[11:36] Sera Lok: most of your residents who provide support and who help newbs WON;’T use viewer2
[11:36] Serra Anansi: Jack, I am really sorry to harp on this Windlight thing, but implementing the full windlight option is down LL “deciding” to activate it?
[11:36] Master Kane: they knew you liked them Pink lol
[11:36] Nema Galicia: I have enough rides in sl to make me dizzy I dont need V2 messing me up more
[11:36] Lady Sakai: we so want to help new residents but we simply cant jack …. and people leave cos ot that …. that is not what we need right now .. we need them to stay
[11:36] Master Kane: lol nema
[11:37] Master Kane: go carts too? )
[11:37] Poppet McGimsie: another problem is having to write two different sets of READMEs for product use
[11:37] Jack Linden: APinkSwan, it’s not that high. We still have people on 1.23 and some third party viewers have good numbers of people using them (Emerald especially)
[11:37] Equinox Pinion: i even make them download 1.23 lady
[11:37] Slee Mayo: jack, i heard tony hayward was replacing M, is that true?
[11:37] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Would you say that V2 is at the bottom then?
[11:37] Annie Obscure: I did a random survey by, essentially, bouncing around the grid using emerald’s ID feature, and it’s only about 33% adoption of 2.0
[11:37] Sera Lok: most people seem to use emerald
[11:37] Master Kane: Imprudence all the way.. and 1,23 of course
[11:37] Sera Lok: i don’t anymore
[11:37] Patnad Babii: the new emerald beta is pretty nice, old UI with 2.0 features
[11:37] Lady Sakai: yea I recomend Emerald (Sorry Jack) since its my favorite .. but thats really just a stupid hurdle
[11:37] Jack Linden: Serra, it’s more than just a button press.. as with all complex code release it has to go into a server and viewer deply cycle
[11:37] Sera Lok: but new users just automatically use viewer 2
[11:37] Jack Linden: *deploy
[11:38] Bella Bertone: 2.0 gave me headaches
[11:38] Sera Lok: which i am sad for. since it’s not fully functional!
[11:38] Vanity Bonetto: Jack, here is the JIRA about the ban line issue … whenever you have a moment, please check it … https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4933
[11:38] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Jack,would you say V2 comes in far behind the rest?
[11:38] Master Kane: bella.. they told me.. “Thats what they make asprins for….”
[11:38] Jack Linden: thanks Vanity, I will take a look
[11:38] Master Kane: why*
[11:38] Lady Sakai: oh lord yes the ban lines jack … I know its “minor” but still its a brillo idea
[11:38] Sera Lok: why give new residents a viewer that’s different from almost everyone who knows what they’re doing in SL. where they have trouble building, editing, finding people, oh well ok that’s enough. you’ve heard all this before lol
[11:38] Bella Bertone: OD on aspirin lol
[11:38] Vanity Bonetto: thank you Jack
[11:39] Jack Linden: APinkSwan, not far but yes, it;s not the biggest Viewer
[11:39] APinkSwan Beauchamp: Okay, thank you…:)
[11:39] Molly Montale: hello, In grid
[11:39] Uni Ninetails: oh holy shit yes, to 4933
[11:39] Serra Anansi: Sorry Jack, you have me completely confused then… you said it was an easy thing and that it might be included on the next release… then you said after I asked about it being “simple” that it was a matter of “deciding” to impliment
[11:39] Lady Sakai: Hi Molly
[11:39] Rene Erlanger: Will LL now move to develop a “Browser” viewer to be used in conjuction witha “Downloaable” viewer………as the emphasis seems to be attracting more consumers
[11:39] Lady Sakai: the is the rumours I hear also Rene
[11:40] Selina Greene: that sounded like M’s big thing – I hope the browser based thing will go along with him… just seems like more complication at the wrong time
[11:40] Bella Bertone: i second that
[11:40] Sera Lok: mmhmmm
[11:40] Jack Linden: Serra, the coding is done. It was unit tested and passed. But we still have to queue things against specific releases of viewer and server.. sometimes to reduce risk we may keep things out of a server release in favour of more important changes.
[11:40] Annie Obscure: survey I conducted May 29: 46% emerald, 19% V2.0
[11:40] Jack Linden: So the fact that it’s ready doesn’t mean it instantly goes out. There is a process.
[11:41] Rene Erlanger: welll if both options are open……..it might be a good thing for SL in the long term in terms of growth.
[11:41] Uni Ninetails: why arent there beta test servers running it Jack?
[11:41] Bella Bertone: Process= think about pitching it, then pitching it
[11:41] Sera Lok: and f you’re lucky, there won’t be any bugs that make them retract it
[11:41] Lady Sakai: it could … down the line … be good …. but I agree .. maybe getting things sorted .. like lag, pricings… etc etc etc first would be best .. but if implmented correctly it might be a good way to get more into SL …. just a thought
[11:41] Master Kane: “all stats are made up…”
[11:41] Selina Greene: but viewer 2.0 went out instantly even though it wasn’t ready… (me smiles naughtily)
[11:41] Sera Lok reallllllly hopes there is some major focus on this mono issue
[11:41] Motor Loon: just wait til mesh support comes… then the % will change as all creators who do sculpties will be forced to use the 2.x to be able to support mesh uploads.
[11:42] Jack Linden: Rene, our commitment is very much to the immersive inworld we have now, but we’re looking at ways to leverage the web to help residents make the most of their second lives.
[11:42] Serra Anansi: Windlight IS an important change, creating an immersible environment is important to making SL a viable and interesting place to visit
[11:42] Sera Lok: for merchants and club owners, it’s a HUGE problem
[11:42] Patnad Babii: is the browser viewer similar to Unity3D ?
[11:42] Jack Linden: We’ve always been interested in those crossover tools that let people stay engaged inworld but still interact with, for example, their social identity on the web
[11:42] Uni Ninetails nods at Sera, was at vista anims store earlier and it was a bloddy nightmare with mono loaded avs dropping in and out
[11:42] Zoha Boa: Jack, the lindex is still at 267 at the moment. Is LL going to do something agianst it to bring it back to 259/260. Buying for exemple 100 milj. L$ and bring them slowly on the market over the next months ?
[11:43] Sera Lok: nod.. with the mono bug, you get lag when someone comes AND when they go… it’s so predictable and so incredibly frustrating
[11:43] Liisa Runo: virtual world is the future of internet, web browser will fade away eventually
[11:43] Sera Lok: and the avatars affecting the sim don’t even realize it, they don’t know they’re crippling my sim
[11:43] Ellla McMahon: re anl ADDITIONAL Browser-style Viewer … the iPad market is a great customer base to go after .. it can’t come soon enough
[11:44] Jack Linden: No Zoha. The market is fluid (as it should be) and that does mean it can float up and down. It’s been stable for long periods, and has stabilised a lot after the recent deflation
[11:44] Sera Lok: and i’ll be damned if you’re going to make us wait till the script limits
[11:44] Lady Sakai: Liisa, we still have the problem that SL is eating computers up .. ppl cant run Sl on normal comps at this stage
[11:44] Selina Greene: Zoha, shouldn’t today’s news hopefully sort the lindex out?
[11:44] Jack Linden: It may stabilise down further yet, we’ll have to see
[11:44] Sera Lok: this mono bug has been going on for sheesh, almost a year now??
[11:44] Liisa Runo: i can run SL with the computer i bought 10 years ago
[11:44] Uni Ninetails: whats was the fix jist? upgrade debian then upgrade mono then apply fix?
[11:45] Master Kane: and a reach around, uni.. dont forget that
[11:45] Sera Lok: well they had a fix at one time
[11:45] Uni Ninetails: LOL
[11:45] Rene Erlanger: Zoha….LL don’t buy back Lindens (itw would costs real USD)…..they only sell Lindens. They could increase Sinks, or reduce sources
[11:45] Sera Lok: but it was buggy
[11:45] Master Kane: )
[11:45] Lady Sakai: Liisa, you have to understand that not all are computer savy and just cos they arent shouldnt mean that they cant use SL … its a wonderfull place that should welcome all .. dumb as well as smart (computer wise)
[11:46] Equinox Pinion: what about paying tier in linden..you said you discussed it….any decisions?
[11:46] Jack Linden: Lady, we’re definitely trying hard to improve performance on low end machines right now
[11:46] Lady Sakai: thats good news jack
[11:46] Jack Linden: agreed that we want to let as many people enjoy second life as we can
[11:46] Motor Loon: my netbook can run Sl… and its a 200 dollar computer
[11:46] Sera Lok: then fix that mono bug:D
[11:46] Zoha Boa: tthat’s why Isaid buy them and bring them back oon the market spread over a few months, as a sort of buffer
[11:46] Liisa Runo: i prefer awesome SL with less people over text only SL with more ppl.
[11:46] Slate Saunders: What is the logic in trying to make Second Life merge with First LIfe (Facebook and assorted RL web identity things)?
[11:47] Sera Lok: and if search is truly FIXED, YAY!!!!!
[11:47] Sera Lok: that’s *aweseom* news
[11:47] Lady Sakai: Id like to see an awsome Sl with as many ppl as possible liisa
[11:47] Lady Sakai: if Im not mistaken that is what Phillip been heading for also ( look at YT for lectures with him)
[11:48] Jack Linden: Slate, it’s not so much about merging. We have a very strong inworld experience and that is way more immersive than the web can be. It’s more about recognising that our residents also have other identities and interests out on the web, so finding ways to let people connect those two sides is a good thing
[11:48] Poppet McGimsie: what is YT?
[11:48] Lady Sakai: You Tube
[11:48] Nema Galicia: is Ll just using places Like FB to impliment advertising with maybe a link to a vid and the web site to sighn up for sl?
[11:48] Slee Mayo: youtube?
[11:48] Poppet McGimsie: doh
[11:48] Lady Sakai: hehe
[11:48] Sera Lok: is the work with Avatar United and getting that linked up with Marketplace and SL inworld continuing?
[11:48] Equinox Pinion: second try. what about paying tier in linden..you said you discussed it….any decisions?
[11:49] Poppet McGimsie: I for one think that the 3d web browser stuff is nifty and may be the way things are heading
[11:49] Southern Riptide: what if we dont WANT people to connect the 2 sides? thats the issue lol its kinda forced upon us?
[11:49] Lady Sakai: I secnd that Equi
[11:49] Selina Greene: that would be good equinox
[11:49] Equinox Pinion: ohh ok
[11:49] Equinox Pinion: tx
[11:49] Motor Loon: can you do my office and showroom when youre done here Ingrid?
[11:49] Jack Linden: Sera, I think the important caveat there is what you mean by ‘fixed’. Search has changed, it needed to. So the old, very static search, is not going to return. As with the web, our search will be more dynamic but also more accurate and more fair
[11:49] Equinox Pinion: yes very
[11:49] Nema Galicia: what if we dont want to connect teh two sides? If i want to go farm and stay in sl I just oepn another browser. I dont want people out tehre comming into sl looking for Nema
[11:49] Master Kane: thought they did that anyways Equix… take it from your acount.. or ami missinfg someting
[11:49] Marianne McCann moves her feet a bit so Ingrid does not vacuum them up
[11:49] Ingrid Ingersoll: sure thing Motor.
[11:49] Master Kane: wow.. major lag! Keyboard not keeping up with my typing
[11:49] Sera Lok: well, i’ll be happy if my parcel simply shows up in certain searches, at this point
[11:50] Jack Linden: Southern, it won’t be forced. If folks don’t want to, they can ignore any extra tools we provide
[11:50] Poppet McGimsie: hopefully there will be control over disclosure, nema
[11:50] Lady Sakai: it would be totally awsome .. if we can do it so can LL … just dont use the Hippo if your gonna implemnt the script limits LOL
[11:50] Sera Lok: as in, not have to uncheck maturity settings just to see my page, which ironically has the word SEX in the title, but only shows in PG ;P
[11:50] Southern Riptide: aaahhhh
[11:50] Miles Beck agrees with Sera!!
[11:51] Selina Greene is very attached to hippo and wants to see script limits that aren’t too excessively strict
[11:51] Rene Erlanger: jack….wouldn’t it be a good idea for LL to develop 2 types of viewer so it could widen it;s marketability for tose that happen to low performing computing power. Take your pick from a) existing Viewers &a Lite version (excluding Windlight, Voice and other goodies) ….or B) existing viewers plus “Browser ” Viewer
[11:51] Imaze Rhiano: scruot limits are necessary bad
[11:51] Lady Sakai: Hippo should clean their stuff up Sera .. they are way to heavy
[11:51] Uni Ninetails: thatd be good. use the older renderer
[11:51] Lady Sakai: sorry Selina
[11:51] Imaze Rhiano: * script…
[11:51] Sera Lok: mrerr!
[11:51] Jack Linden: Rene, maybe. The question is more whether we’d really want to have to support and maintain to separate viewers – and do we have the resources to do that well
[11:51] Liisa Runo: just one viewer with adjustable settings like draw distance and what not
[11:51] Master Kane: Rene.. you think they will listen now? after years of complainingabout that?
[11:52] Patnad Babii: attrackting the iPad crowd would be pretty nice
[11:52] Jack Linden: I agree though that different users have very different needs from a viewer
[11:52] Sera Lok: but Jack!
[11:52] Sera Lok: you’re making US support 2 viewers
[11:52] Sera Lok: heh
[11:52] Master Kane: I do have to say, that LL has done an excellent job trying to keep the driver update down! WTG!
[11:52] Patnad Babii: so probably html5 is the way to go with for a browser based viewer
[11:52] Lady Sakai: hehe good point Sera
[11:53] Jack Linden:
[11:53] Slee Mayo: they had to, master, they’re on pcs as well
[11:53] Slate Saunders: well, with short resources is RL/SL merging a priority that needs to be addressed while there are so many unfixed, unaddressed problems?
[11:53] Selina Greene: right Salte
[11:53] Selina Greene: Slate
[11:53] Master Kane: Not everyone can program for older systems or even find older driver TO support
[11:53] Sera Lok: that’s why we are again, sooo appalled at 2.0 becoming the default viewer
[11:53] Annie Obscure: ++Slate
[11:53] Sera Lok: before your main users can even use it with confidence:(
[11:54] APinkSwan Beauchamp TOTALLY agrees with Sera
[11:54] Vanity Bonetto: I gotta go, good bye everyone …. see ya next week
[11:54] Jack Linden: Slate, exactly.. we need to spend the resources we have wisely. No point taking on things unless we’re sure we can deliver them to a high quality
[11:54] Slee Mayo: buh bye
[11:54] Annie Obscure: fixing group chat
[11:54] Sera Lok: i’mbeing totally serious. 2.0 should NOT be the default viewer.
[11:54] Master Kane: bye vanity
[11:54] Lady Sakai: right !! .. now we got Phillip back as we have cried for for years .. now listen to reason and dump the UI .. we wont hold it against you we promise
[11:54] Selina Greene also agrees with Sera
[11:54] Jack Linden: bye vanity
[11:54] Marianne McCann doesn’t agree
[11:54] Sera Lok: not that anyone listens to me, but still:)
[11:55] Rene Erlanger: i think the main problem with Viewer 2.0 and its unpopularity is the UI……that should be re-mapped. e.g that side bar
[11:55] Master Kane: huh what sere?
[11:55] Master Kane:
[11:55] Sera Lok:
[11:55] Master Kane:
[11:55] Liisa Runo: setting v2 as default client for new people when it still had major bugs reported in ALPHA state by LL testers was kinda bad move
[11:55] Slee Mayo: *looks over TOS about protesting LL
[11:55] Southern Riptide: lol
[11:55] Sera Lok: agreed
[11:55] Jack Linden: 2.1 will allow the sidebar to slide over the world rather than move the camera.. for me, personally, that’s a huge win hehe
[11:55] Annie Obscure: quit doing crazy side projects. FIX THE FREAKING SYSTEM!
[11:55] Motor Loon: Jack, the REALLY important tool “object return by resident in entire estate” is non working again – do you know if thats fixed in 1.40 ?
[11:56] Master Kane: yeah slee.. they dont offer toilet paper.. better file a lawsuit
[11:56] Slate Saunders agrees with Annie
[11:56] Jack Linden: Motor, I’m not sure on that one
[11:56] Sera Lok: it is a win… but… how much time do you spend inworld building or working with land or searching for land or products, Jack ?
[11:56] Techwolf Lupindo: Viewer 2.0 alpha was dumped on the beta testers. Viewer 2.0 BETA was dumped onto new user by default. A very bad move.
[11:56] Motor Loon: It’s really the BEST tool we have to protect our estates against greifing
[11:56] Marianne McCann: That I do agree with. It’s not a bad viewer… but it was really pushed out before it was “there,” and in spite of a lot of private beta participants pointing out big issues that are only now being addressed in 2.1
[11:56] Lady Sakai: oh oh I know that one Sera .. the answer is .. Non ?
[11:56] Master Kane: Agreed Tech
[11:56] Master Kane: more like PUSHED/SHOVED
[11:56] Lady Sakai grins at jack
[11:56] Sera Lok: Yes, it’s NOT suitable for default viewer. it’s not just crazy pissed off people being mad at nonsense
[11:57] Master Kane: “.. beend over heres oru sign newbies”
[11:57] APinkSwan Beauchamp: and it has created even more work for LL
[11:57] Jack Linden: Sera, less than I used to. I used to build a lot, that was really my thing
[11:57] Selina Greene: how about instead of bugging us with a constant survey on how we feel about marketplace, doing a survey on 2.0 – we’re not some crazy minority here re: our feelings on 2.0
[11:57] Jack Linden: I still try hard to get my alt inworld as often as i can
[11:57] Jack Linden: I always learn so much when i do
[11:57] Master Kane: oh whats his name?
[11:57] Lady Sakai: well do us a favour and take a week and build in the V2 .. then we can talk again
[11:57] Equinox Pinion: ohh can we see some of your creations *g*
[11:57] Master Kane: llet visit him )
[11:58] Liisa Runo: normally when programs are developed they dont have any alpha bugs when they go to beta, and no beta bugs when final is released, v2 had alpha bugs in final
[11:58] Nema Galicia: lol @ MK
[11:58] Sera Lok: i really gave 2.0 a try. i was going to make it the viewer i used. i couldn’t
[11:58] Slate Saunders: what’s your Alt’s name Jack?
[11:58] Southern Riptide: lol
[11:58] Silken Wilder: I have land he can buy and use to build..
[11:58] Lady Sakai: mm do tell jack
[11:58] Master Kane: see im not the only one that wants to know
[11:58] Southern Riptide: watches jack switch on them tools lol
[11:58] Jack Linden: Hehe Equinox, i see my creations around quite often actually.. still gives me a huge buzz
[11:58] Master Kane: ceom on jack.. cough him up
[11:58] Rene Erlanger: well i cna sy even Noobs have had difficulty with the viewer 2.0, which might partly explain the low retention rates. Its should not have been the default download in its current state….should have been optional
[11:58] Lady Sakai: he can come live in Brum ya know ;p
[11:58] Slee Mayo: i’m betting nebula something
[11:58] Annie Obscure: Jack, I ran a pretty scientific survey – literally bouncing around the grid checking viewers. V2.0 is only 21% of viewer usage.
[11:58] Equinox Pinion:
[11:58] Marianne McCann: Prokofy?
[11:58] Lady Sakai: Dolly !!!
[11:58] Alliez Mysterio whispers: I heard its Jack Alt
[11:59] Silken Wilder: yes Rene..I agree
[11:59] Master Kane: hmmm
[11:59] Jack Linden: hohoho
[11:59] Sera Lok: i’m here an insane amount of time, and do perhaps an insane number of things… viewer 2.0 pretty much made it impossible for me to do things efficiently, even after using it a full two weeks
[11:59] Silken Wilder: we get hit up by newbs alot and they are sooo confused on the viewer
[11:59] Master Kane: oh so your alts name is (and I quote) “hohoho”
[11:59] Motor Loon: I only lasted with 2.0 for two days
[11:59] Master Kane:
[11:59] Zoha Boa: hohohoho..the christmas man ?
[11:59] Lady Sakai: plz plz plzzzz Jack .. make it go awayyyyy
[12:00] Rene Erlanger: I would be surprised if Viewer 2.0 has more than 30% take up
[12:00] Southern Riptide: he doesnt want to tell us his alts name cuz the last names off? hahahahah
[12:00] Uni Ninetails: 2.0 was awright. enjoyed the performance. but totally useless for content creation. why should i spend cash on uploads when i get get free on emerald during development
[12:00] Master Kane: I can thinnk of a few snatas(z) that I seen
[12:00] Southern Riptide: sorry jack couldnt resist
[12:00] Alliez Mysterio: I think if they do a survey on it, they will see we are not just taking about how bad it is
[12:00] Jack Linden: Sera, yeah I tried myself and the flow for builders is clumsy. But I do believe it can be fixed; the way that builders use the camera and inventory is different, we just need to push harder on that. We’ll get there.. i genuinely believe we will
[12:00] Sera Lok: yes i really like parts of it. but as a whole it’s a total mess!
[12:00] Molly Montale: KirstenLee’s is almost livable: http://www.kirstensviewer.com/
[12:00] APinkSwan Beauchamp: How much manpower is it taking to backtrack and fix something t